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Nolan Teel
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« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2015, 03:09:16 PM »

This is all fun and games till someone goes on base and does something stupid to ruin it for all... examples below...

1. Speeding on Base
2. Chewing an enlisted person out for not saluting
3. Parking in the wrong spot
4. being generally stupid with how we act/wear the uniform
5. Trying to get access to MWR/AAFES/Commissary

With that said I just had a meeting last week with our local AFB Wing CC.  He supports limited DBIDS Cards for will call them "trusted CAP Members" and an Entry Access Letter for all others.

Here is a simply flow chart on base access IMO based on historical experience.

We work hard to build relationship----> Get easier access---->someone does something stupid----> that person quits CAP----> access restricted----> work to build relationship.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 03:12:51 PM by Nolan Teel » Report to moderator   Logged
Mustang
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« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2015, 07:10:00 AM »

DBIDS cards for CAP are coming, according to a little birdy.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2015, 07:50:18 AM »

DBIDS cards for CAP are coming, according to a little birdy.

Care to enlighten us?  Plus who's footing the bill for the supplies and the man hours to issue them?  And whom exactly in the org are going to be getting them?
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NCRblues
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« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2015, 02:28:55 PM »

DBIDS cards for CAP are coming, according to a little birdy.

Care to enlighten us?  Plus who's footing the bill for the supplies and the man hours to issue them?  And whom exactly in the org are going to be getting them?

This is a recipe for an absolute disaster!

Can you imagine the petty infighting that will come with only certain members getting those?! Holy cow...

And lets be honest with ourselves, we all know that one guy who is in CAP for all the wrong reasons and should never even look at a military base let alone maybe have access to it.

I doubt this is going to happen, but if it does be prepared for the infighting of a lifetime.
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PHall
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« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2015, 02:53:16 PM »

What infighting?  If you have a need to access a base on a fairly regular basis, then yeah a DBIDS card might be in order.
But if you're only going to the base 2 or 3 times a year for uniforms, then you don't need one.
And the vast majority of CAP members fall into the second category.
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arajca
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« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2015, 03:02:49 PM »

What infighting?  If you have a need to access a base on a fairly regular basis, then yeah a DBIDS card might be in order.
But if you're only going to the base 2 or 3 times a year for uniforms, then you don't need one.
And the vast majority of CAP members fall into the second category.
As one who falls into the first category, I have two DBIDS cards - one for one base and one that works for two (but will need separate cards next month) I need to access regularly.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2015, 03:09:24 PM »

What infighting?  If you have a need to access a base on a fairly regular basis, then yeah a DBIDS card might be in order.
But if you're only going to the base 2 or 3 times a year for uniforms, then you don't need one.
And the vast majority of CAP members fall into the second category.

Exactly but who is the deciding factor on this?  The unit, group or wing?  And how do you think it will fly when the AF Wing CC says enough off my yard? How you propose getting these cards back when a member quits for changes their membership status to patron?

Will this be for SMs and cadets or just SMs? What about some members who decide they don't want to disclose the information for the background check?  Or how about when they are denied access because of the background check?  How about being able to sponsor visitors as well some installations don't allow it via DBIDS and others do.

Ultimately this is also going to cost money and man hours who's going to pay for it?  Not to mention should this happen will potentially create another means of displeasure for members who won't get a card or are refused issuance of a card.

Granted a lot of this is probably being thought about and worked out but you this all big picture things with getting DBIDs cards.   
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PHall
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« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2015, 06:10:08 PM »

What infighting?  If you have a need to access a base on a fairly regular basis, then yeah a DBIDS card might be in order.
But if you're only going to the base 2 or 3 times a year for uniforms, then you don't need one.
And the vast majority of CAP members fall into the second category.

Exactly but who is the deciding factor on this?  The unit, group or wing?  And how do you think it will fly when the AF Wing CC says enough off my yard? How you propose getting these cards back when a member quits for changes their membership status to patron?

Will this be for SMs and cadets or just SMs? What about some members who decide they don't want to disclose the information for the background check?  Or how about when they are denied access because of the background check?  How about being able to sponsor visitors as well some installations don't allow it via DBIDS and others do.

Ultimately this is also going to cost money and man hours who's going to pay for it?  Not to mention should this happen will potentially create another means of displeasure for members who won't get a card or are refused issuance of a card.

Granted a lot of this is probably being thought about and worked out but you this all big picture things with getting DBIDs cards.

As long as we make a "good faith effort" to recover the cards we should be alright. If for nothing else they can be cancelled which means they will be taken if someone tries to use them.

As for what is the deciding factor. Don't you guys have a limit on how many times someone can get on base in a 90 day period without a DBID card?
Sounds like a deciding factor to me
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 06:13:17 PM by PHall » Report to moderator   Logged
Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2015, 10:08:15 PM »

Quote
From ABD:

....What about some members who decide they don't want to disclose the information for the background check?


Simple... No info, ya don't get one!
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Holding Pattern
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« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2015, 02:20:44 AM »

Silly question of the day: Can the card readers at a military installation read data from a PIV or PIV-I card?

Personally, on the subject of CAC, I always thought that a CAC had data encoded in it that stated the holder's access levels and assumed that the items allowed to CAP could then be presented to anyone with a CAC reader.

If this can be done, and it can also read PIV an PIV-I cards, then we can skip the entire CAC debate and start issuing a PIV or PIV-I compliant smartcard to anyone who requests it and pays an additional fee? It would among other things give us the ability to do certificate based logon to eservices and CAP computers, which considering we now have cyber as a theoretically growing mission, this would not be a bad idea.

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Panache
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« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2015, 07:39:39 AM »

Why does CAP members need CAC cards?

I will be the first to admit that our current ID cards look a little cheesy.  But... so what?  My CAP ID card is in my wallet 99.99% of the time.  The only time I take it out is when I'm going to the meeting and to show to the guard at the gate, who gives it a half-glance as we are, obviously, authorized by the base commander to enter.

If we have a need or reason to enter another military facility, we call ahead and ask (a) can we gain entry and (b) what forms of ID do we need to provide.  If (a) is "yes", (b) has always been "oh, a driver's license and your CAP ID card is fine."

The base commander is, for all intents and purposes, god when it comes to deciding what we can and can not due on his or her base.  If he or she says "CAP can do x", then the standard-issue flimsy CAP ID card should be good enough for establishing our identity.

DBIDS cards for CAP are coming, according to a little birdy.

I'll believe it when I see it.
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Angus
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« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2015, 12:56:44 PM »

Wait you guys can't use the PX or commissary? My squadron meets on an Air Force base and I have gone into the PX and commissary and purchased items multiple times. Is that not normal? Someone told me that our membership cards allowed us access to these places and every time I've gone in I showed my card, they smiled and sold the stuff to me.

Of course they smiled at you, you were giving them money. AAFES and DeCA are not shy when it comes to taking your money!

Not always true.  I have been on base for meetings and tried to purchase just some basic items and was told that I couldn't because CAP was not authorized for purchases from the main part of AAFES.  I do believe though that some AAFES branches are much more lax because yes you are giving them business.
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Cliff_Chambliss
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« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2015, 01:06:47 PM »

Noticed something over the last week or so.  Upon entering the local Air National Guard Facility for gas, for the first time the security guys had a scanner and read the bar code on the back of my ID Card.  (Using a Military Retired ID Card, not a CAP membership card).
This weekend using both the commissary and the PX, again my and my wife's ID cards were scanned before we were cleared onto the base, and were scanned again in both the PX and the Commissary before any purchases were rung up.  Seems there are more and more card scanner/readers and they are being used more.  As I no longer carry a CAP Membership Card I really do not have a dog in the fight but as a military retiree I can see the fences being pulled in a bit tighter.
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goblin
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« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2015, 03:23:38 AM »

Wouldn't have anything to do with the FPCON change, would it?
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goblin
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« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2015, 03:27:27 AM »

I think there is some confusion here between a CAC and DBIDS.

Technically speaking, the CAC itself has nothing to do with "base access".

I think the right answer, which has been mentioned before, is DBIDS on the CAP ID (if base access is necessary).

What about a limited number of access opportunities?  Your DBIDS ID is "preloaded" with 3 visits on a calendar year, so you can access for AAFES or whatnot at those times. Any other time it would be the same process as now.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2015, 03:27:51 AM »

Wouldn't have anything to do with the FPCON change, would it?

No.
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goblin
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« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2015, 03:36:49 AM »


Wouldn't have anything to do with the FPCON change, would it?

No.

Oh, ok
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abdsp51
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« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2015, 03:41:23 AM »

I think there is some confusion here between a CAC and DBIDS.

Technically speaking, the CAC itself has nothing to do with "base access".

I think the right answer, which has been mentioned before, is DBIDS on the CAP ID (if base access is necessary).

What about a limited number of access opportunities?  Your DBIDS ID is "preloaded" with 3 visits on a calendar year, so you can access for AAFES or whatnot at those times. Any other time it would be the same process as now.

Not that simple and who's going to fund the manhours and cost to implement such a thing.
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goblin
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« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2015, 03:44:14 AM »

CAP has changed its ID cards several times. Adding a barcode to the back wouldn't be that difficult.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2015, 03:49:31 AM »

CAP has changed its ID cards several times. Adding a barcode to the back wouldn't be that difficult.

your talking about a barcode for a system we do not control.  This is not a simple proceds by any means.  You can add anything you want all day and the DoD is not going toballow CAP to put DBIDS on its ID cards. 
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Civil air patrol CAC Cards
 


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