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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: NCO
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #160 on: March 20, 2015, 08:38:01 PM »

Quote
Which is true, but as several have have pointed out, many agencies (ie the Military, Police, Fire, EMA, etc.) and/or their personnel don't view CAP Officers as... peers... for lack of a better word.
They're not our peers.  They don't know the first thing about organizing an aerial search.  They're just a bunch of posers wearing rank that looks like ours and thinking they're just as good as us at our job. 

It's like when you see some small-county sheriff in uniform.  The entire department has 5 officers, but, by God, his collar has stars on it.

Oh, get over it. It's not like he is insisting on being addressed as "general." It's just a designation device when used in that context.
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #161 on: March 21, 2015, 11:33:54 AM »

It is still misleading...
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Squadron Safety Officer
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Storm Chaser
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NCO
« Reply #162 on: March 21, 2015, 01:12:08 PM »

How so? They're wearing the uniform of a law enforcement officer.  In our case, we're wearing a military-style uniform with military-style grade insignias and titles. In almost every organization out there, a colonel outranks a lieutenant every time. That's not the case with CAP where a lieutenant can command officers of higher grades.
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USAFRiggerGuy
Member

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« Reply #163 on: April 02, 2015, 11:09:52 PM »


They're not our peers.  They don't know the first thing about organizing an aerial search.  They're just a bunch of posers wearing rank that looks like ours and thinking they're just as good as us at our job. 


The USAF's PJs and their Rescue Squadrons would like a word with you!

Agreed... As a NCOIC for a Rigger shop that directly supported the PJs I couldn't agree more with you.... I think they know a thing or 10 about Aerial ops....
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Michael Orcutt, 1Lt, CAP
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SarDragon
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« Reply #164 on: April 03, 2015, 12:36:29 AM »

Lighten up, Francis.

I think it's been pretty well established that the comment was sarcasm.
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Dave Bowles
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Flying Pig
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« Reply #165 on: April 03, 2015, 01:10:22 AM »

Quote
Which is true, but as several have have pointed out, many agencies (ie the Military, Police, Fire, EMA, etc.) and/or their personnel don't view CAP Officers as... peers... for lack of a better word.
They're not our peers.  They don't know the first thing about organizing an aerial search.  They're just a bunch of posers wearing rank that looks like ours and thinking they're just as good as us at our job. 

It's like when you see some small-county sheriff in uniform.  The entire department has 5 officers, but, by God, his collar has stars on it.

Oh, get over it. It's not like he is insisting on being addressed as "general." It's just a designation device when used in that context.

Those stars the small county sheriff wears mean nothing outside of his organization.   Stars have long been used to signify the head of the LE agency in law enforcement regardless of the size of the department.  Your comparison is not relevant to the argument you are trying to make. 
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AirAux
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« Reply #166 on: April 13, 2015, 03:26:32 AM »

Just got back from Wing Conference and some NCO stuff was discussed.  Phase III has not been affirmed as of yet.  CAP will probably require 4 year degrees to become an officer.  Of around 3,000 Ex-NCO's in CAP only 80-85 have decided to go with NCO rank,  We had an E-6 that was there wearing a long sleeve blue shirt that was way too tight on him.  Looked like Smilin' Jack's buddy from the old strip.  He also had some type of Navy warfare wing thing over his ribbons.  When I asked why he wanted to be an NCO instead of Officer, his answer was "to be different".  He did inquire in a command class as to why he couldn't be in a command position.  This continues to look like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #167 on: April 13, 2015, 03:50:07 AM »

3,000 sounds low. It's probably under-reported.
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Dave Bowles
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ZigZag911
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« Reply #168 on: April 13, 2015, 04:17:17 AM »

4 year degrees for CAP officer?  Why the change?
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abdsp51
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« Reply #169 on: April 13, 2015, 05:31:31 AM »

4 year degrees for CAP officer?  Why the change?

Rumor until something official comes down. 
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lordmonar
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« Reply #170 on: April 13, 2015, 05:39:26 AM »

4 year degrees for CAP officer?  Why the change?

Rumor until something official comes down.
As a member of the NCO Committee....I can definitively say this rumor.    We are not even out of Phase I yet....so any long term changes to the officer corps are way too premature to be speculating yet.

I can say.....that one of the whole reasons for the NCO corps is to beef up the officer corps....but like I said...that's years down the road if at all.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
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« Reply #171 on: April 13, 2015, 12:13:49 PM »

Cool..... so you'll need a degree to be the 2Lt who stocks the fridge for the cadet snack bar  :clap:
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JeffDG
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« Reply #172 on: April 13, 2015, 12:17:46 PM »

4 year degrees for CAP officer?  Why the change?

It's called "credentialism".

One nice thing about working in the IT business is that there's precious little of it.  Lots of folks with just High School can rise to senior positions in IT companies based on, you know, doing stuff, instead of a piece of paper on the wall.
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Flying Pig
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« Reply #173 on: April 13, 2015, 01:17:56 PM »

That concept is creeping into every profession.   Not to mention in police work.  You couldnt find a wanted parolee if the guy tossed his own wanted poster in your drivers side window and brought his own hand cuffs.... but dang it... you have a Masters in Crim from an online school.

Again, I know it was said above that this is a rumor.  But I don't see it as far fetched.
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #174 on: April 13, 2015, 01:45:14 PM »

Maybe a degree requirement could be a good thing. With an officer corps meeting the same educational standards as USAF, that could open SOS and ACSC as career progression requirements. Makes it tougher to say "Oh, THOSE guys..." when CAP people are coming closer to matching NG officers I'm selection and PD (except for pay).  Physical and age would be harder to match up, but those would be easiest to let slide.
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
catrulz
Member

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Unit: MO

« Reply #175 on: April 13, 2015, 04:18:26 PM »

Of around 3,000 Ex-NCO's in CAP only 80-85 have decided to go with NCO rank,

So, lets say you get out of the service as an E-5 (about average for a single term of military service).  You join CAP, and after 13-15 years your Level 4 or Level 5 and a Major or Lt Col, your going to go back and be an E5 again?  I would make the general assumption that a CAP SSgt is a Level I/II low experience member.  I think its important to most CAP members to be seen as knowledgeable, and experienced (especially when they are).

Only 85 took advantage of the program, because that was probably the number of former Master Sergeants (of all grades).  The fault with Phase I of the NCO program, was it had no incentive to get Level IV and V personnel to jump back to NCO grades. 

However, I do see more NCO's than ever in the program, there are 3 in my group alone, and I know there are at least 5 in the wing.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 04:21:31 PM by catrulz » Report to moderator   Logged
lordmonar
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« Reply #176 on: April 13, 2015, 05:44:28 PM »

We got a proposal (suggested by someone here (not me)) floating through the approval chain right now to address that issue.

Basically it takes your original military grade and runs it through a matrix of CAP PD and rank....to come up with an advanced NCO rank.

Nothing approved yet...but it was moved up out of the committee to the command level.  So we will see if it goes through.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
AirAux
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« Reply #177 on: April 13, 2015, 06:19:09 PM »

I believe Phase III has to do with new civilian members joining and after 6 months or so becoming NCO's.  The whole training track requirements are still beyond comprehension.  This means with the college requirements, you may have mission pilots that are NCO's.  So we are scrapping the whole system for the ego of 85 NCO's and an ex-National Commander.  The Air Force may be trying to get us in alignment with them, but they seem to forget we are VOLUNTEERS and they may very well cause the program to go away or become so small it is no longer valid.  I guess the next thing will be either up or out?  Most people do this to take their mind off their daily job, not add more stress to it.
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Av8tion
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« Reply #178 on: April 13, 2015, 06:26:35 PM »

Just some food for thought that with the new promotion regulations, the timetable for promotions in the officer grades is nearly identical to that of the Air Force. Allow me to demonstrate below

New -> 2d Lt = 6mo TIG/TIS for CAP, OTS is about 10 weeks
2d LT -> 1st Lt = 18mo TIG = 2 years TIS for CAP = 2 years TIG/TIS for USAF
1st Lt -> Capt = 30mo TIG = 4y 6mo TIS for CAP, 2 years TIG = 4 years TIS for USAF
Capt -> Maj = 4 years TIG = 8y 6mo TIS for CAP, approx 10y TIS for USAF
Maj -> Lt Col = 5 years TIG = 13y 6mo TIS for CAP, approx 13-15y TIS for USAF

As you can see, it's not "quick" or "easy" to advance in officer grade in CAP. Now the only thing they need to do is expand the CAP enlisted program to allow all new members to go down that road if they so desire.
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FW
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« Reply #179 on: April 13, 2015, 06:47:57 PM »

I believe Phase III has to do with new civilian members joining and after 6 months or so becoming NCO's.  The whole training track requirements are still beyond comprehension.  This means with the college requirements, you may have mission pilots that are NCO's.  So we are scrapping the whole system for the ego of 85 NCO's and an ex-National Commander.  The Air Force may be trying to get us in alignment with them, but they seem to forget we are VOLUNTEERS and they may very well cause the program to go away or become so small it is no longer valid.  I guess the next thing will be either up or out?  Most people do this to take their mind off their daily job, not add more stress to it.

You have a problem with this?  >:D

I find it entertaining we are having our best and brightest work this important issue.  It's only taken a couple of years to make it this far.  I think it will take a while for the whole program to be completed.  I hope the time and effort taken will benefit CAP with a membership that is better able to handle our missions, and an organization growing larger and stronger.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: NCO
 


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