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Author Topic: Is CAP going to continue as an Air Force auxiliary?  (Read 18925 times)
lordmonar
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« Reply #80 on: November 18, 2011, 06:41:34 PM »

I'm still pretty new but have noticed how stringently customs and courtesies are enforced in the cadet program. I try to do the same as much as possible. To be it seems a bit hypocritical to not.
It is not really hypocritical.....if you understand the "why" behind what we do.

You can scale your behavior based on the situaiton.
Cadets around, not around.
A visitinting DV.
Formal awards.
Work/Classroom environment.

As Ned said....we are teaching 12 year olds the basics of respect, attention to detail and critical thinking.  We use drill and ceremonies and Customs and Courtisies as a tool to teach these skills.

Seniors working in a purly senior enviornment or with senior cadets....the need to use these tools is less important, and therefore it may be appropriate to be more lax in our C&Cs.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
lordmonar
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« Reply #81 on: November 18, 2011, 06:42:16 PM »

So many people here on CAP-TALK want us to be more like the Air Force.  Well in the Air Force, airmen do not brace or come to attention when an officer simply passes them by in the hallway. So why woudl we expect cadets to do so?   What is the purpose of having them do so?
+1.

My cadets come back from encampment and you can't walk 10 feet with out 2-3 cadets bracing up and shouting "Good Evening Sir!".
Geez....I was just going to the bathroom!

What?  And no one moved to make sure the seat was warm for you???? >:(
>:D
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
lordmonar
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« Reply #82 on: November 18, 2011, 06:43:56 PM »

This isn't about CAP being cut from the budget.  That's a pretty absurd an idea anyway.  As just said, the mandate is to cut expenses - that being the case, this is all about the Air Force examining what 'non-essential' and 'non-combat' tasks can be handed off to CAP as a value-added proposition to take advantage of our volunteer services.

I bet if many were intellectually honest, there are quite a few things we can do for the Air Force that would save them quite a bit.

Right off the bat I'm wondering if a hard look at courier (small cargo payload) and small personnel movements by aircraft would be better managed by letting us do that task.  I'm sure there may be others.
You know....a lot of them would probably love it!
Ah yes...

"General Sir... We are sorry, but we have to take your C-37 away from you. But we have arranged for you to fly in a brand new C-182 instead... Your pilot is that older gentleman in the polo shirt over there. "
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Larry Mangum
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« Reply #83 on: November 18, 2011, 08:44:57 PM »

It is more relaxed in Tech School, we had daily formations and marched to class. However, we where not expected to brace if a STA came by nor if a junior officer walked down the hallway. We did call rooms to attention and saluted when appropriate. 

 Such behavior is appropriate for encampment as part of the purpose of encampment is to give them a taste of military life, and basic training.   I woulda gree that Customs and Courtises should be enforced at the squadron at all times.
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Larry Mangum, Lt Col CAP
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RiverAux
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« Reply #84 on: November 18, 2011, 09:29:38 PM »

But with all this anti-Air Force Auxiliary stuff that has actually severely fractured our organization over the last decade or so, it caused a lot of State Guard organizations to form or futher develop their own aviation organizations that serve as reserves to the Air Guard.

There aren't as many of those as you might think.

Two of them that I know of were disbanded (New York, Indiana) non-flying units.

The only active ones I know of right now are in Texas, California and Oregon, all of which have a non-flying mission of backfilling Air Guard units in those states when the Air Guard is Federalised.  The only one I know of with a mission similar to CAP is one in Virginia organised along Army Aviation lines. 
Alaska has a flying SDF unit and Vermont may have one.  The VA flying unit uses private planes while Alaska flies state planes.   Hard to get any info about the VT State Guard but best I can tell they are not very active in any area. 
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The CyBorg is destroyed
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« Reply #85 on: November 18, 2011, 10:35:48 PM »

Alaska has a flying SDF unit and Vermont may have one.  The VA flying unit uses private planes while Alaska flies state planes.   Hard to get any info about the VT State Guard but best I can tell they are not very active in any area.

Are either of them organised along Air Force lines?  California, Texas and Oregon are, as were Indiana and New York.

Also, WRT cadets bracing...I haven't seen that done in about 15 years, and it wasn't just in my unit...it was at least wing-wide.

Of course, it's not on the level of BMT where the first words out of your mouth have to be your reporting statement, unless you want the MTI to crawl down your throat and out another place.
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RiverAux
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« Reply #86 on: November 18, 2011, 11:22:49 PM »

Alaska has a flying SDF unit and Vermont may have one.  The VA flying unit uses private planes while Alaska flies state planes.   Hard to get any info about the VT State Guard but best I can tell they are not very active in any area.

Are either of them organised along Air Force lines?  California, Texas and Oregon are, as were Indiana and New York.
Well, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "organized along Air Force lines".  If what you're asking is if they provide augmentation support to their Air National Guards, I haven't heard of them doing so.  The VA DF is pretty active and growing and I wouldn't be surprised.  Every photo of the VT SG that I've ever seen makes it look like their average age is in the low 70s and not much info is available on them, but I very much doubt they're doing much with their NG.  (But, I could be wrong).
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sarmed1
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« Reply #87 on: November 19, 2011, 02:06:35 PM »

TX actually has a very active State Guard program, including their Air Wing (they actually have a maritime unit as well...interesting) was reading on their site that the original WWII state guard air unit was disbanded with the coming of the federal Civil Air Patrol........

mk
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Mark Kleibscheidel
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« Reply #88 on: November 19, 2011, 02:31:43 PM »

was reading on their site that the original WWII state guard air unit was disbanded with the coming of the federal Civil Air Patrol........
Many, many states had developed or were developing air units for their state guards but just about, if not all, of them disbanded them in favor of using CAP once it was organized.  The reason is obvious -- they get the same service without having to pay for it themselves.  Which is also probably why almost none have organized flying units since WWII. 
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The CyBorg is destroyed
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« Reply #89 on: November 19, 2011, 08:51:04 PM »

TX actually has a very active State Guard program, including their Air Wing

Probably the biggest and most active of the State Guard Air Wings.

With all the AFB's and ANG activity in Texas, that is not surprising.
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PhoenixRisen
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« Reply #90 on: November 19, 2011, 09:30:18 PM »

TX actually has a very active State Guard program, including their Air Wing (they actually have a maritime unit as well...interesting) was reading on their site that the original WWII state guard air unit was disbanded with the coming of the federal Civil Air Patrol........

mk

The California State Military Reserve (state SDF) also has an air component.  I was looking into joining a while back, but found out that their side of the house (versus the Army-side) is restricted to former AF/ANG/AFRES members who held specific AFSCs.  From what I know, the CSMR is a very, very professional organization, and I can only hope that things pick up for them and they're able to go far.
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RADIOMAN015
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« Reply #91 on: November 20, 2011, 08:09:58 PM »

I do think that Civil Air Patrol will continue as the civilian auxiliary of the United States Air Force.

As far as budget priorities, go again AFI 10-2701 is the USAF policy in what they see the role as CAP in.

Pay particular attention to Chapter 1 and the way it is written.
 http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI10-2701.pdf.  The AF see mission support as the primary reason we exist.

Also as far as the organization being placed in AU/AETC,  personally I'd like to see us placed with the Air National Guard for the mission type support.    The cadet & aerospace education programs could be reassigned and remain under AU/AETC under the Junior ROTC program, as another "Community Outreach" program and the folks at National could be transferred to this division.  Additionally the JROTC staff (as well as the other ROTC staff and the area) could do the appropriate staff assistance visits.    Additionally senior ROTC cadets could assist with instruction of the cadets in this program.   The new cadet organization could remain in the current facility or use another facility (e.g. school/university) for the program. 
RM
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 08:13:19 PM by RADIOMAN015 » Report to moderator   Logged
Ed Bos
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« Reply #92 on: November 20, 2011, 11:19:43 PM »

Alaska has a flying SDF unit and Vermont may have one.  The VA flying unit uses private planes while Alaska flies state planes.   Hard to get any info about the VT State Guard but best I can tell they are not very active in any area.
The Alaska State Defense Force no longer has aircraft. IIRC, they disbanded that mission fairly recently, within the past year or three.
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EDWARD A. BOS, Lt Col, CAP
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Fox2001
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« Reply #93 on: November 20, 2011, 11:51:26 PM »

Saving a dollar is a dollar...the magnitude of savings is not the point.  If CAP is removed as the Aux, CAP will evaporate.

And as for needing Congressional approval...that it so much easier than most people think.

BTW, F-16s don't cost $20mil...they cost a lot more. 

Palafox
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Private Investigator
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« Reply #94 on: November 21, 2011, 12:44:39 AM »

The California State Military Reserve (state SDF) also has an air component.  I was looking into joining a while back, but found out that their side of the house (versus the Army-side) is restricted to former AF/ANG/AFRES members who held specific AFSCs.  From what I know, the CSMR is a very, very professional organization, and I can only hope that things pick up for them and they're able to go far.

The CSMR got the air component in the last ten years. When I was with the Cal Guard I did not even know we had a CSMR until after Desert Storm. Since 9/11 the CSMR has really done a good job helping the Guard.

Now the CSMR has a bizarre promotion system. If you have a 4 year degree you could be a Captain, Second Lieutenant or a Sergeant depending on what your degree is in.
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« Reply #95 on: November 21, 2011, 12:45:52 AM »

I doubt the USCG Aux has the issues the CAP does.   ???
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NCRblues
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« Reply #96 on: November 21, 2011, 01:00:43 AM »

I doubt the USCG Aux has the issues the CAP does.   ???

They have a separate set of issues, but issues none the less.
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lordmonar
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« Reply #97 on: November 21, 2011, 01:58:00 AM »

Saving a dollar is a dollar...the magnitude of savings is not the point.  If CAP is removed as the Aux, CAP will evaporate.

And as for needing Congressional approval...that it so much easier than most people think.

BTW, F-16s don't cost $20mil...they cost a lot more. 

Palafox

Cutting $30M from the budget does NOT save the USAF $30M.....it will cost them 3-4 times that much to replace us.
That is the point.  Cutting funding to CAP does not cut the service demand that CAP meets.
Balancing the budget is easy....need to cut $350B......just stop building/repairing roads for a year or two......save the money....but now the roads are majorly screwed up and will cost you $400B to fix.

$30M to CAP......will cost the USAF something like $300M to replace.  Because someone will have to do the SAR...Helos and C-130 are not cheap.  We do the Green Flag mission for about 1/4 what the USAF way paying a contractor to do.

So......no....saving money is not saving money.......you have to look at why the money is being spent and how those cost are pushed off when you stop funding it.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
RADIOMAN015
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« Reply #98 on: November 21, 2011, 03:19:45 AM »

Saving a dollar is a dollar...the magnitude of savings is not the point.  If CAP is removed as the Aux, CAP will evaporate.

And as for needing Congressional approval...that it so much easier than most people think.

BTW, F-16s don't cost $20mil...they cost a lot more. 

Palafox

Cutting $30M from the budget does NOT save the USAF $30M.....it will cost them 3-4 times that much to replace us.
That is the point.  Cutting funding to CAP does not cut the service demand that CAP meets.
Balancing the budget is easy....need to cut $350B......just stop building/repairing roads for a year or two......save the money....but now the roads are majorly screwed up and will cost you $400B to fix.

$30M to CAP......will cost the USAF something like $300M to replace.  Because someone will have to do the SAR...Helos and C-130 are not cheap.  We do the Green Flag mission for about 1/4 what the USAF way paying a contractor to do.

So......no....saving money is not saving money.......you have to look at why the money is being spent and how those cost are pushed off when you stop funding it.
Well as expected it looks fairly certain that  the "Super" Committee isn't going to be successful, so the automatic cuts will start in fiscal year 2013, with defense taking 50% of those cuts.

I would think that again EVERYONE in DOD is going to see a reduction in funding.   There will be some large cuts and some smaller cuts.  It could be a strict % applied to all programs.  It's likely that CAP is going to see a funding cut of some sort.  (I would  guess that the professional staff at National already has a revised FY2013 budget and pretty much knows where the cuts are going to come from).   Probably new aircraft & vehicle procurement will likely be the casualties.
RM     
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Eclipse
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« Reply #99 on: November 21, 2011, 03:22:20 AM »

Well as expected it looks fairly certain that  the "Super" Committee isn't going to be successful, so the automatic cuts will start in fiscal year 2013, with defense taking 50% of those cuts.

No.  They will simply rescind the automatic cuts - they were priming that idea already last week.

Status.

Quo.
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