Observations of a Cadet turned SM on Senior Membership.

Started by Майор Хаткевич, August 10, 2011, 12:41:29 pm

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SamFranklin

If you're going to contribute as a senior, the challenge of your first year or two is to listen and learn and transition to the adult side of the missions and the organization.

Criticism about uniforms, no matter how well meaning or tactful, signal that instead of broadening your perspectives you are instead keeping to what you know as a recent cadet: uniform stuff.

Trust me, if you start up with uniform minutia, people will conclude you have a lot more growing up to do, fair or not.

But welcome to the fun side of CAP.


- Ex cadet

Eclipse

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 11, 2011, 12:31:20 am
I think uniform wise, many senior members wear golf shirt combo.

And many more do not.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 11, 2011, 12:31:20 am
(cause sometimes the pictures are so large the email server rejects it).

Ridiculous.  Though not saying it is your fault specifically, but pick one.  The fact that they are going through email at all, or the fact that the mail server
rejects them based on size in 2011.

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 11, 2011, 12:31:20 am
I personally don't see a young adult member having much impact on the older adults.

It takes a well-crafted sentence to insult and demean that many people, an organization as a whole, and yourself with only one period.



Briski

One of the most important things I've learned since I started working with Senior Members (and other adults involved in youth development) is that Maslow's Hierarchy applies to adults just as much as it does to cadets. The needs are the same, even though they might be fulfilled in slightly different ways.

Once I realized this, my interactions with SMs as a cadet made a lot more sense. The SMs who frustrated me by being too involved and stepping on my toes were, in many cases, trying to figure out where they fit in to meet their Belonging needs. When I was struggling to develop my communication skills and allowed my enthusiasm to get the best of me, it sometimes threatened their Esteem needs, which instinctively triggered defense mechanisms. Simple human nature.

As a cadet, it's really easy to forget that Senior Members are humans, too. As a new Senior Member (and with my college-induced sabbatical, I still consider myself to be a relatively new CP Officer), it's easy to unintentionally maintain that mindset.

I'm still working on figuring this stuff out, too. My guess (and my hope) is that I will continue learning more and improving my skills in working with Senior Members and cadets alike as long as I'm in CAP.

Regardless of how old I happen to be at any given moment.
JACKIE M. BRISKI, Capt, CAP
VAWG Cadet Programs Team

...not all those who wander are lost...

RADIOMAN015

August 11, 2011, 02:08:39 am #23 Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 02:12:46 am by RADIOMAN015
Quote from: Eclipse on August 11, 2011, 01:20:31 am
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 11, 2011, 12:31:20 am
I think uniform wise, many senior members wear golf shirt combo.

And many more do not.
CAP Life would be much easier for all if they just wore the golf shirts, very difficult to get that combo wrong.  What I also see is IF they try to wear the AF type uniform they don't buy everything they need so, the hat or jacket is missing.  The white aviator shirt gets dirty just looking at it  :angel:
   

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 11, 2011, 12:31:20 am
(cause sometimes the pictures are so large the email server rejects it).

Ridiculous.  Though not saying it is your fault specifically, but pick one.  The fact that they are going through email at all, or the fact that the mail server
rejects them based on size in 2011.
I have an issue with my provider, and it's just easier to have them download it or even burn a CD.  I've had up to 300 pictures from one activity to go through to pick one for a press release.  Also in any press releases to national one has to cut them down anyways.

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 11, 2011, 12:31:20 am
I personally don't see a young adult member having much impact on the older adults.

It takes a well-crafted sentence to insult and demean that many people, an organization as a whole, and yourself with only one period.
I'll  stay with my initial impression on this, especially the way it was initially presented (and I've also overheard younger senior members talk down older senior members, but it isn't what I would consider as a serious organizational issue).  Perhaps the qualifier that I would put in there is any new senior adult member, needs to listen more initially and learn what the senior program is about.  That includes former cadet becoming senior members also --- Just because they are a former CAP cadet, it doesn't mean they know everything

RM

HGjunkie

Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 11, 2011, 02:08:39 am
CAP Life would be much easier for all if they just wore the golf shirts, very difficult to get that combo wrong.  What I also see is IF they try to wear the AF type uniform they don't buy everything they need so, the hat or jacket is missing.  The white aviator shirt gets dirty just looking at it  :angel:
   



Simple solution to a simple problem. Don't wear the AF style uniform until you have all the necessary parts to wear it. Aviators getting dirty? There's this magical invention called a washing machine.
••• retired
2d Lt USAF

SarDragon

If you're getting a white shirt dirty, then you should find a different uniform more amenable to the conditions.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

NCRblues

We keep feeding the troll called RM why??

RM, i guess that 24 year old RI wing commander does not have much impact on older SM's huh? Oh....wait....  ::)
In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC

The CyBorg is destroyed

Cripesallbloodymighty, RM, do you have to "bolster" your personal agenda of a non-uniformed CAP (yes, I know, we're the CIVIL Air Patrol, ya sure, ya betcha, tie me kangaroo down sport) with a putdown of a young officer who is trying to make a difference, especially in the realm of esprit de corps?

About the only time anyone in my unit wears the golf shirt is when it's too hot to wear any other uniform (full disclosure: I don't even own a golf shirt).  Otherwise it's blues or G/W - and they are usually clean and pressed.  Of course, we have a good chunk of PS members (from all five services).

I can tell you that I would listen...in fact, cadets have tactfully, and within the realms of protocol addressing an officer, have told me when I've been errant with my uniform.  I don't resent it.  I encourage it.

I'm in a squadron that has turned out many Mitchells (and above), most of whom have gone on to military service.  I was in a squadron that produced a Spaatz, and she was an exceptional young woman to say the least.  I was a lieutenant at the time and she went SM for a while before going to university, which made her a Captain, which meant that I had to listen to what she had to say...not to mention salute her.

What Captain Briski said about Maslow's Hierarchy is very true...I hadn't thought of it in relation to CAP.
Exiled from GLR-MI-011

Майор Хаткевич

Well, knowing that my CC reads CT, and after this went from general observations to uniform specifics, the plan is to have an inspection next meeting for the SM side of the house. Thankfully, the SM who fixed a ribbon mixup on my uniform is also going to be involved. :P

Dragon 3-2

As a fellow former cadet turned senior I also notice that most of my seniors don't know what they need to do to get beyond level II or Tech in their specialty track. This bothers me because within in my 18 months or requited time in grade, I am not only going to become one of two Captains and the only one with Level III completed I have taken it upon my self to get all of the 1st LT's that have been in that rank since I transferred to the squadron in Sept 2007 as a cadet and get them set up to be Level III Captains before I leave for basic training.

Captain  Steven Smith
Aerospace Education Officer
NJ-102 Plainfield Red Falcons
Eaker #2089
2009 NJWG / NER Dragon Drill Team

Phil Hirons, Jr.

Quote from: Dragon 3-2 on August 15, 2011, 05:07:40 pm
As a fellow former cadet turned senior I also notice that most of my seniors don't know what they need to do to get beyond level II or Tech in their specialty track. This bothers me because within in my 18 months or requited time in grade, I am not only going to become one of two Captains and the only one with Level III completed I have taken it upon my self to get all of the 1st LT's that have been in that rank since I transferred to the squadron in Sept 2007 as a cadet and get them set up to be Level III Captains before I leave for basic training.

Sounds like you should be looking to add Professional Development Officer to your signature line.
I enjoyed my time in the PD track.

Майор Хаткевич

Being a former C/Officer definitely helps with looking up regs and requirements, but thankfully that's not one of the issues I've noticed at our unit. If anything, there USED to be a lot of Captains, but a large number have now become Majors.

ol'fido

I'm not going to get into the whole uniform corrections thing.

The biggest thing you will have to deal with as a old cadet turned new senior is this...

The seniors will be watching very closely to see how you interact with the cadets, and the cadets will be watching very closely to see how you interact with the other seniors and them. How you navigate this will be your biggest test.
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: ol'fido on August 15, 2011, 09:59:58 pm
I'm not going to get into the whole uniform corrections thing.

The biggest thing you will have to deal with as a old cadet turned new senior is this...

The seniors will be watching very closely to see how you interact with the cadets, and the cadets will be watching very closely to see how you interact with the other seniors and them. How you navigate this will be your biggest test.


Non issue I think.

I left active participation August 2008.

There is ONE cadet who was around when I was a C/Capt.

Since coming back, they have ONLY seen me as a Grey/Whites or BBDU. I demand customs and courtesies be followed, and I'm only around the cadets when following what the CP SMs are doing.

The only issue for me is that I can't bring myself to calling other SMs by first name. If it's a Capt and up, it is "Sir", if it is a Lt, then it's Lt. But I don't really think that's an issue. There is nothing wrong with doing the more formal thing around cadets. It probably should be encouraged. Keep calling Bob, Sam, or John by first name in private.

SarDragon

Quote from: USAFaux2004 on August 16, 2011, 12:21:07 am
The only issue for me is that I can't bring myself to calling other SMs by first name. If it's a Capt and up, it is "Sir", if it is a Lt, then it's Lt. But I don't really think that's an issue. There is nothing wrong with doing the more formal thing around cadets. It probably should be encouraged. Keep calling Bob, Sam, or John by first name in private.


And there is nothing right about using first names around cadets. I have continual problems with the instructor team I'm part of when we do ROA classes having cadet students.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Майор Хаткевич

The reason I brought it up was because that was advice I received on the board not too long ago, and I think it just wasn't that great. If the SMs are doing it, maybe it's just time someone started to do the right thing.

AngelWings

Quote from: HGjunkie on August 11, 2011, 03:34:15 am
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on August 11, 2011, 02:08:39 am
CAP Life would be much easier for all if they just wore the golf shirts, very difficult to get that combo wrong.  What I also see is IF they try to wear the AF type uniform they don't buy everything they need so, the hat or jacket is missing.  The white aviator shirt gets dirty just looking at it  :angel:
   



Aviators getting dirty? There's this magical invention called a washing machine.

That just made my night  ;D .

Dragon 3-2

Quote from: phirons on August 15, 2011, 08:22:03 pm
Quote from: Dragon 3-2 on August 15, 2011, 05:07:40 pm
As a fellow former cadet turned senior I also notice that most of my seniors don't know what they need to do to get beyond level II or Tech in their specialty track. This bothers me because within in my 18 months or requited time in grade, I am not only going to become one of two Captains and the only one with Level III completed I have taken it upon my self to get all of the 1st LT's that have been in that rank since I transferred to the squadron in Sept 2007 as a cadet and get them set up to be Level III Captains before I leave for basic training.

Sounds like you should be looking to add Professional Development Officer to your signature line.
I enjoyed my time in the PD track.


Actually sir once I get back from basic training, I'll be adding that and Deputy Commander for Seniors as well  :)

Captain  Steven Smith
Aerospace Education Officer
NJ-102 Plainfield Red Falcons
Eaker #2089
2009 NJWG / NER Dragon Drill Team

Eclipse

Quote from: Dragon 3-2 on August 16, 2011, 10:48:27 pmActually sir once I get back from basic training, I'll be adding that and Deputy Commander for Seniors as well.


You're going to need a bigger monitor for that graphic.

Any particular reason you need to have that many jobs?

http://tinyurl.com/hup5s



zonaman

August 17, 2011, 02:11:18 am #39 Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 05:31:27 am by zonaman
Quote from: Eclipse on August 16, 2011, 10:52:28 pm
Quote from: Dragon 3-2 on August 16, 2011, 10:48:27 pmActually sir once I get back from basic training, I'll be adding that and Deputy Commander for Seniors as well.


You're going to need a bigger monitor for that graphic.

Any particular reason you need to have that many jobs?

http://tinyurl.com/hup5s


It may be that his squadron needs that much help.
My squadron had most of the seniors with 3 to 4 jobs just so we could function. We buckled down on recruiting, now it's not a problem.

I will agree that to many jobs on one person is not good. No matter how talented, go-getter, can-do, etc. you are, unnecessary stress and a slow down of quality will result.

Dragon 3-2,
I'm not saying you cant do it, I'm just saying its a lot. I'm in the AZ Guard, with RSP Drill Weekends and CAP, of which I was Deputy Commander of Seniors, Safety Officer, Transportation, and Assistant Supply Officer, I was pretty busy. I no longer have those positions because I am getting ready to leave for BCT, and we finally have more seniors!!!!!. As far as you in the Guard, that's awesome, whats your MOS?.