CAP Talk

General Discussion => Membership => Topic started by: Capt Rivera on August 31, 2009, 11:24:53 PM

Title: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Capt Rivera on August 31, 2009, 11:24:53 PM
From:http://capmembers.com/cap_university/latest_pd_news.cfm

Quote
Important Professional Development News!
SLS On-line (for Chaplains)
(31 Aug 09)

On-line SLS
: Now available to chaplains. Chaplains may register through this link or go to the On-line Courses & Exams page in CAP University.  On-line SLS will soon be open to all eligible candidates who would not otherwise be able to attend in residence.  Please note that the primary method of completing SLS is in residence and the on-line option is primarily for those who can not attend in residence.

PD Staff

Let the debate begin... I left the poll answer open for change as I can see people wanting to change the selected answer as debate continues...
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: dwb on August 31, 2009, 11:30:02 PM
I've said this before, but it bears repeating.

The real value in SLS and other in-residence courses is the discussion and networking between the attendees (students and staff).

Yes, you can understand all of the material by doing an online course, but you can't spend a weekend with your peers, with other people in your Wing that are trying to make this whole CAP thing work.

An online module on leadership is not a suitable replacement for sitting at lunch with some students you just met four hours earlier, and engaging in a spirited discussion about how to handle issues that CAP officers face.

And Chaplains do NOT get special dispensation here, I'm not sure why it's only open for them right now.  If anything, Chaplains need to spend as much time as possible with their fellow senior members, since their "Chaplainy" work is often done in isolation, or only with other Chaplains.

[/rant]
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Maj Daniel Sauerwein on August 31, 2009, 11:37:18 PM
What about using technology to have it be online, but with the capabilities to network with other members, like a video conference? CAP could partner with a provider of video conferencing software and equipment and provide each squadron the ability to attend and interact without leaving their home area, which is especially important in northern states where bad weather can come up quickly and severely impact travel. I like the online concept for everyone, but do see the value in learning from others. There has to be a nice middle ground that provides the flexibility of distance-based education with the benefits of a traditional classroom setting.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: brasda91 on August 31, 2009, 11:54:14 PM
I understand the option for them to do SLS online.  I don't agree with it though. My Dep Cmndr for Seniors has agreed to do SLS on Friday night and Saturday.  We are getting ready to start another class that will run a few weeks on Tuesday nights.  Don't see any reason why any unit can't conduct SLS over several weeks on their meeting night.  Contradictions?
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: RiverAux on September 01, 2009, 12:03:39 AM
Why in the world should Chaplains get an online option not available to anyone else?  They're no more likely to not be near an in-person course than anyone else. 

I just can't believe they're doing this after making such a big fuss about now having to follow the same PD requirements as everyone else. 

If this was the old SLS, then an online course would be acceptable, but the new one just isn't right for online work. 
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: bosshawk on September 01, 2009, 12:33:49 AM
First of all, I have no issue with the suggestion that the course be put online for everyone.

Secondly, have you considered that most Chaplains have other, more important, committments on Saturdays and Sundays, when CAP tends to give classes like SLS?  It seems to me that holding services for ones congregations is a bit more important than going to a CAP school.

I am probably a bit more sensitive to this issue than most: I lived in a clergymans family for the first 21 years of my life.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Capt Rivera on September 01, 2009, 12:35:55 AM
I understand the option for them to do SLS online.  I don't agree with it though. My Dep Cmndr for Seniors has agreed to do SLS on Friday night and Saturday.  We are getting ready to start another class that will run a few weeks on Tuesday nights.  Don't see any reason why any unit can't conduct SLS over several weeks on their meeting night.  Contradictions?

Hi Maj Dillworth,

SLS is a Wing Course and should not be a squadron level class...
(Disregarding this online thing of course...)

For your course:

- Do you have Wing Approval?
- Do you have attendees from outside your squadron?

If the answer to either of those questions is "no" its not being done right.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Capt Rivera on September 01, 2009, 12:53:16 AM

Secondly, have you considered that most Chaplains have other, more important, committments on Saturdays and Sundays, when CAP tends to give classes like SLS?  It seems to me that holding services for ones congregations is a bit more important than going to a CAP school.

I am probably a bit more sensitive to this issue than most: I lived in a clergymans family for the first 21 years of my life.

Things like that are important based on the person your talking to at a given moment...

I'm not saying it is or is not important to me, however, it should not be given any additional consideration then any other job/calling/etc.

All types of people do their work on weekends... whatever that work happens to be... others work 40, 60 etc hours a business week to have weekends with family or for CAP...

Everything is a choice... CAP should not discriminate for or against any subset... If we allow this special consideration for Chaplains, why not anything else? I'm sure we can each list many different jobs/callings/commitments/etc that keep us from ever being available on a weekend....

The fact is... Availability is a choice in America...

Quote
all eligible candidates who would not otherwise be able to attend in residence

If the standard is: "I have a commitment on weekends..." who can't find justification to meet this requirement?

I would think that the following would not have to go in residence to another PD course by default under the above standard:
- Chaplains
- Any military member (Active, Guard & Reserve)
- Anyone who normally works any job on at least 1 of the 2 day weekend days...
- Any doctor, nurse,etc
- any police officer, firefighter, emergency dispatcher etc
- Anyone who is on call for any job over the weekend

Where would it stop?
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Short Field on September 01, 2009, 01:07:58 AM
Some people take their Sunday duties very serioiusly.  We have offered SLS and CLC as a Friday PM and Saturday Class a few times to allow them to attend.  The classes covered the same material and with the same amount of time as the Sat/Sun classes.   

Yes, all the classes were approved by wing.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Airrace on September 01, 2009, 02:05:34 AM
I like the idea of an online SLS course. You would take the course on line and then attend a class for 4 hours that you could do all the networking you wanted. The course should be open to everyone not just chaplins.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: IceNine on September 01, 2009, 03:07:14 AM
I actually like the idea of a friday/sat vs sat sunday course.

I may try that next year.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: brasda91 on September 01, 2009, 03:57:33 AM

Hi Maj Dillworth,

SLS is a Wing Course and should not be a squadron level class...
(Disregarding this online thing of course...)

For your course:

- Do you have Wing Approval?
- Do you have attendees from outside your squadron?

If the answer to either of those questions is "no" its not being done right.

There is nothing stopping a squadron from conducting an SLS course.  We don't ask for it to be funded.  National recommends that at least one SLS be conducted within the Wing or Region.  Sometimes that one time doesn't mesh with a members schedule, especially Chaplains.  My Chaplains have a committment to their church on Sundays, so it's hard for them to get away.

- I've not seen any requirement to have Wing approval for a squadron to conduct an SLS course.  If you can provide regulatory compliance that we have Wing approval, I would appreciate it.

- We always invite the squadrons close to us to participate.  That could be Southern IL, SE Missouri, NE Arkansas or NW Tennessee.  The last class we conducted was attended by a Senior Member from Atlanta.  That is a few hours from us.  He didn't want to have to wait several months for his Wing to offer SLS.  I don't know of any regulation that requires us to invite members from outside of our squadron.  We do it simply based on being good stewards of the organization.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Camas on September 01, 2009, 04:21:25 AM
SLS is a Wing Course and should not be a squadron level class...
- Do you have Wing Approval?
- Do you have attendees from outside your squadron?
If the answer to either of those questions is "no" its not being done right.
I gotta agree with RiveraJ - re: CAPR50-17 Para 4-6b and 4-6d which states in part - "Each CAP wing shall conduct one SLS - - - " and "CAP wing commanders appoint a director for each SLS".

There is nothing stopping a squadron from conducting an SLS course.
I've not seen any requirement to have Wing approval for a squadron to conduct an SLS course. 
Not according to CAPR50-17 para 4-6.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: brasda91 on September 01, 2009, 04:38:39 AM
SLS is a Wing Course and should not be a squadron level class...
- Do you have Wing Approval?
- Do you have attendees from outside your squadron?
If the answer to either of those questions is "no" its not being done right.
I gotta agree with RiveraJ - re: CAPR50-17 Para 4-6b and 4-6d which states in part - "Each CAP wing shall conduct one SLS - - - " and "CAP wing commanders appoint a director for each SLS".

There is nothing stopping a squadron from conducting an SLS course.
I've not seen any requirement to have Wing approval for a squadron to conduct an SLS course. 
Not according to CAPR50-17 para 4-6.

Actually it states Wing should conduct one course annually.  Once again, there is no prohabition in para 4-6 against a squadron conducting an SLS.  If there is, please cite it verbatim.

I'm the unit commander, so I appoint the SLS Director for the unit funded SLS.

The Wing Commander will appoint Director for the Wing funded SLS course.

If only Wing or Region can conduct a SLS, why would National approve us to have the class?  This is not the first time we've done this.

Also, you'll note that under para c, you will find NOTE: Some wings may hold more than one SLS per year; however, only one SLS is funded.  Notice that it doesn't say Wing HQ, it states wings, as in some states may hold more than one SLS.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Camas on September 01, 2009, 04:47:34 AM
I'm the unit commander, so I appoint the SLS Director for the unit funded SLS.
The Wing Commander will appoint Director for the Wing funded SLS course.
If only Wing or Region can conduct a SLS, why would National approve us to have the class?  This is not the first time we've done this.
I've had units in my wing conduct SLS courses at the unit level as well - no argument there - but they've always gone through wing first for approval. I'm just curious - does your wing DPD give approval in KYWG or are you given automatic approval to do this all on your own? Not picking a fight - just getting thoughts and ideas.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: brasda91 on September 01, 2009, 04:57:45 AM
I'm the unit commander, so I appoint the SLS Director for the unit funded SLS.
The Wing Commander will appoint Director for the Wing funded SLS course.
If only Wing or Region can conduct a SLS, why would National approve us to have the class?  This is not the first time we've done this.
I've had units in my wing conduct SLS courses at the unit level as well - no argument there - but they've always gone through wing first for approval. I'm just curious - does your wing DPD give approval in KYWG or are you given automatic approval to do this all on your own? Not picking a fight - just getting thoughts and ideas.

Honestly, I haven't even considered asking Wing for permission.  We're not asking for it to be Wing funded, so to my thinking, it doesn't need to be run through Wing.  I may be wrong for doing it this way.  The Form 46 doesn't require Wing approval.  If there is a reg that states all training needs Wing approval, I would like to see it.  I'm sure I've forgotten a reg or two over the years.  :)  I'll check my Wing policy letters to see if there's anything there.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Camas on September 01, 2009, 05:02:11 AM
The Form 46 doesn't require Wing approval. 
Hmm - you're right. Could we have a contradiction with CAPR 50-17? Anyway, it's been an interesting exchange of thoughts and ideas.Too bad we've never met. I was in Henderson KY just this past June.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: brasda91 on September 01, 2009, 05:27:26 AM
The Form 46 doesn't require Wing approval. 
Hmm - you're right. Could we have a contradiction with CAPR 50-17? Anyway, it's been an interesting exchange of thoughts and ideas.Too bad we've never met. I was in Henderson KY just this past June.

 :D  There's plenty of contradictions in the reg's and ICL's.

I too have enjoyed the questions.  I appreciate them.  Makes me double check the reg before I post.  By the way, I checked my Wing policy letters and there is nothing that I can find regarding needing Wing approval for holding a SLS course.  But, because of your question/s...I'm going to ask my Wing PD Officer about this.  Thanks.

What brought you to Henderson?  That's only a hour and half, give or take a few minutes from Paducah.  Feel free to add me to your buddy list.  If you come to Henderson or anywhere close to Paducah and you need something or want to visit, give me a call.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Short Field on September 01, 2009, 05:47:54 AM
Actually it states Wing should conduct one course annually.  Once again, there is no prohabition in para 4-6 against a squadron conducting an SLS.  If there is, please cite it verbatim.
I'm the unit commander, so I appoint the SLS Director for the unit funded SLS.
The Wing Commander will appoint Director for the Wing funded SLS course.

CAPR 50-17 4d.: Planning. CAP wing commanders appoint a director for each SLS.

The Reg does not say the Wing Commander will appoint the Director for the Wing funded SLS course but that the Wg/CC will appoint a director for each SLS.  You are assuming an authority you don't have.

CAPR 50-17 4e. Reporting. The SLS course director must forward the CAPF 11 and course critiques through the wing commander or their designee (designee cannot be the course director) for signature within 7 days of course completion. Subsequently, the endorsed CAPF 11 and course critiques should arrive at NHQ CAP/PD not later than 14 days after course completion. A copy of the signed CAPF 11 will also be sent to the region DCS/PD. Failure to expedite the CAPF 11 could have a detrimental effect on promotions or other personnel actions.

THis seems very clear that the Fm 11 must be signed by the Wg/CC or his designee.

If only Wing or Region can conduct a SLS, why would National approve us to have the class?  This is not the first time we've done this.

National "approved you" to conduct the SLS?  It looks like National isn't checking the signatures and doesn't really care as long as it takes place.  But that doesn't make it correct.

I am not aware of the Wing ever funding one of our SLSs or CLCs.  Appointment of the course directors was normally by email to the unit conducting the course - if that.  I know some have been verbal.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: brasda91 on September 01, 2009, 10:23:28 AM
If anyone has anything more to comment on regarding a unit conducted SLS or any course, please PM me.  I will discuss it with you further.

Back on topic, I think there needs to be some sort of classroom attendance for the Chaplains.  They need an avenue in which to ask questions and have feedback.  But there also needs to be some planning in the course to help better accomidate them.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: DogCollar on September 01, 2009, 10:56:55 AM
Hmmmmm.....I don't know what to say about this development.  Back in January, when the original proposal from Chaplain Woodard for changing PD requirements for Chaplains, the wording about "on-line SLS and CLC" was present.  I contacted NHQ, and was informed that language was in error and wasn't approved.  Now, here it is!

I, personally don't like on-line education, period...for anyone.  I happen to like teachers, chalk boards and uncomfortable student desks.  That being said, I think the answer would have been for more non-weekend opportunities for the teaching of SLS/CLC to be available.  However, it would have to be widespread and offered more than once a year.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: EMT-83 on September 01, 2009, 12:00:20 PM
On-line SLS and CLC = bad idea. Anyone can go to the website and download the slides. That doesn't mean you'll actually learn anything from them.

As others have said, I definitely learned more from networking and exchanging "best practices" with other participants than I did from the course materials.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: CPT Anderson on September 01, 2009, 02:46:34 PM
It just seems that they are almost NEVER offered on days except Sat/Sun, and that isn't good for those people who do work in the ministry.  I'm Jewish, Saturdays are out for me, but the closest squadron to me meets on Saturdays...grrrrr........

My husband is about to be a US Army Chaplain, so Sundays are going to be out too.  I have ALL of my education on-line, are my ThD and MDiv less of degrees because they were earned on-line?  Nope.  I have PLENTY of interaction on-line in my classes, but I start most of it also....
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: DogCollar on September 01, 2009, 03:58:25 PM
Captain Anderson,

I just sent you a PM. 
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: BrianH76 on September 01, 2009, 04:47:41 PM
If an online SLS were to mirror (good) online college courses, where a group was enrolled at the same time, had certain participation requirements, and a good instructor/facilitator, then it may not be a bad thing.  The material could be expanded far beyond what you could do in a two-day format and participation would be far easier.  If you don't think you can learn something from participation in online discussions, then you're probably at the wrong website. :)

Honestly, I didn't get much out of the actual SLS course content.  As previously stated by some, the networking and best practices discussions were the major benefit.  But that could be achieved just as well at a conference.

If it were just an exercise in clicking through a bunch of Powerpoints and taking an online test, then it would be a bad idea and a waste of time.  It would duplicate the other Level 2 requirement for the distance-based Course 13 or its upcoming successor, the online CAP Officer Basic Course.

Considering how CAP would probably do it ... bad idea.  Done correctly ... it may have some potential.  I'm still supportive of in-residence classes, but just considering the possibilities.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Gunner C on September 02, 2009, 12:21:54 AM
There's more than a few folks who work weekends or have problems with working on the Sabbath (I think CAP has WAY too many activities on Sunday; YMMV).  Have an SLS during the week.

You won't just have people coming from your wing, I'll wager that you'll attract folks from other wings, too.

Having an on-line program for chaplains is a really bad idea.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Cecil DP on September 02, 2009, 10:52:19 AM
There is no requirement that an SLS or CLC be held on a weekend, only that a certain subjects and a minimum amount of hours be used to take the course. regarding being too busy or a timing conflict, the Wing. Group, or squadron PD's and Chaplains can arrange a time during the week to hold these classes. maybe 4 hours a week for four weeks.  They do this for the Chaplains RSC, they should be able to do it for SLS/CLC.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: DogCollar on September 02, 2009, 11:02:53 AM
There's more than a few folks who work weekends or have problems with working on the Sabbath (I think CAP has WAY too many activities on Sunday; YMMV).  Have an SLS during the week.

You won't just have people coming from your wing, I'll wager that you'll attract folks from other wings, too.

Having an on-line program for chaplains is a really bad idea.

One would think that I would have learned a lesson by now, that making blanket-universal statements, like I did in my last post, only gets me in trouble!!! 

I realize that for a lot of people today, on-line training works well...and, depending on one's station in life, maybe the only realistic option to getting educational needs.

For me, when I take on-line offerings versus in-residence courses, I don't retain nearly as much.  My goal with on-line training seems to be "just get it over," as oppossed to actually learning the content.

At the risk of making another general observation that may get me in trouble, I will offer that most clergy folk are extroverted, people oriented men and women.  In other words, they tend to draw energy from the company of other people...I know that I do.  That being my observation, I would think that for chaplains, in-residence courses would be more enjoyable and the content would more likely be better retained.

I guess the on-line option is probably here to stay...however, I hope that it's use becomes the exception and not the standard...not just for Chaplains but for all CAP personnel.

That's my opinion...flame away!!!
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Gunner C on September 02, 2009, 08:13:24 PM
No flame here.  I'm just of the opinion that if chaplains want to be part of the force, they need to train with the force.

The chaplain's job is to support the members.  The best way to find out to do that is to train with them, especially in leadership schools and courses.  It's important that the chaplaincy understands not only the needs of those with whom they are serving but also the group personality.  There are too many clergy who are far removed from those they serve.  CAP gives a clergyman an amazing opportunity to serve others while being "one of the guys/gals."
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Spike on September 02, 2009, 10:33:13 PM
Wow......I had to take vacation time to enjoy SLS/CLC.  I think a member of the clergy can do the same. 

Lets not start dividing into "separate but equal" groups now.

This is a BAD, BAD IDEA.  I will oppose it at every chance I get. 
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Gunner C on September 02, 2009, 11:24:20 PM
Wow......I had to take vacation time to enjoy SLS/CLC.  I think a member of the clergy can do the same. 
I have to do that for just about anything having to do with CAP these days.

Quote
Lets not start dividing into "separate but equal" groups now.
You can't be equal if it's separate.

Quote
This is a BAD, BAD IDEA.  I will oppose it at every chance I get.
I have to agree. 
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: brasda91 on September 03, 2009, 08:40:28 AM
Wow......I had to take vacation time to enjoy SLS/CLC.  I think a member of the clergy can do the same.   

When you take vacation from your job, you probably have other co-workers that help take up the slack when you're gone.  You honestly think it's that easy for a full-time chaplain to do the same thing?


No flame here.  I'm just of the opinion that if chaplains want to be part of the force, they need to train with the force.

The chaplain's job is to support the members.  The best way to find out to do that is to train with them, especially in leadership schools and courses.  It's important that the chaplaincy understands not only the needs of those with whom they are serving but also the group personality.  There are too many clergy who are far removed from those they serve.  CAP gives a clergyman an amazing opportunity to serve others while being "one of the guys/gals."

My lead chaplain is also filling in for one of the National Guard units here in town.  I get comments from them on how much they enjoy him.  He goes to their drill weekends and has even gone on annual training with them.  Not to mention the 2 Region Chaplain Staff Colleges he's attended.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Capt Rivera on September 03, 2009, 11:19:13 AM
Greetings,

Those that are not sure yet... or well... anyone else...

What questions would you like answered regarding this particular program?
- I can't promise answers... but you never know who might be watching and who might let answers trickle down... ;)
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Spike on September 03, 2009, 06:12:55 PM
Yeah.....first question....WHAT?!?!

Seriously, if a Chaplain can take it on line, so can every other member.  Instead, I now have to tell my members that they each need to spend close to $200.00 if they want to move up in the PRO Development program.

That is not fair, not right and not ethical. 

Wow......I had to take vacation time to enjoy SLS/CLC.  I think a member of the clergy can do the same.   

When you take vacation from your job, you probably have other coworkers that help take up the slack when you're gone.  You honestly think it's that easy for a full-time chaplain to do the same thing?

Umm....yes it is.  Chaplains are just like every other "corporate job".  They have sick days and get vacations, and assistants to pick up the slack.  I know of not ONE church in my community, that only has one Priest assigned. 
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: DogCollar on September 03, 2009, 07:31:23 PM
Yeah.....first question....WHAT?!?!

Seriously, if a Chaplain can take it on line, so can every other member.  Instead, I now have to tell my members that they each need to spend close to $200.00 if they want to move up in the PRO Development program.

That is not fair, not right and not ethical. 

Wow......I had to take vacation time to enjoy SLS/CLC.  I think a member of the clergy can do the same.   

When you take vacation from your job, you probably have other coworkers that help take up the slack when you're gone.  You honestly think it's that easy for a full-time chaplain to do the same thing?

Umm....yes it is.  Chaplains are just like every other "corporate job".  They have sick days and get vacations, and assistants to pick up the slack.  I know of not ONE church in my community, that only has one Priest assigned.

My Lord, where do you live???  Because there is a clergy shortage all over the country, and most clergy are stretched thin, often among several congregations at once!!  That doesn't mean that a clergy cannot take a Sunday vacation, but picking up the slack in their absence?  Not likely where I live.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: jimmydeanno on September 03, 2009, 07:42:15 PM
The local Catholic diocese made the decision to consolidate three separate congregations into one.  There is only one priest available to service all three churches.  They closed one and have the Priest traveling between the two to provide daily Mass, confession, and all other duties.

So...when do expect that he'll get a "vacation?"
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Capt Rivera on September 03, 2009, 07:45:50 PM
Sounds like those without jobs in America should move to these locations? just kidding...  >:D

We might be at a impasse on the chaplain thing...

How about some questions about the course in general... ?

Are there concerns regarding content/format/etc?
How exactly is it being presented?...
What technology and what features are available to the facilitator?
What is required of students? [WebCAM/etc]
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Spike on September 03, 2009, 09:27:25 PM
I am wondering if I complain long enough and loud enough....will NHQ let me take NSC on line??  I have stuff during the week just like Chaplains!

So because I do not have a degree in GOD, I can't take SLS on line. 

I wonder how well this is going to go over in a year after it is implemented. 

How about......"I am a very religious person, and can not attend any training on weekends".  Will that excuse work for on line SLS??  Some people in CAP CAN NOT attend weekend activities because of faith.  Lets open it up to them as well.

If we don't open it up to them, CAP Corporate is saying "your faith doesn't matter", but your Priests faith does".

If we wanted to get real picky with it, this can be a discrimination case against certain religious groups as well.

Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Cecil DP on September 03, 2009, 10:55:22 PM
I am wondering if I complain long enough and loud enough....will NHQ let me take NSC on line??  .

 It's  called. Air Command and Staff College
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Eclipse on September 03, 2009, 11:06:45 PM
So...when do expect that he'll get a "vacation?"

Sounds like he doesn't have a whole lot of time for CAP either.

This, like many other "problems", solves itself.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Gunner C on September 03, 2009, 11:07:16 PM
I'd have to agree.  If chaplains need an alternative, let them take Squadron Officers' School.  That's the alternative that everyone else has.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Short Field on September 03, 2009, 11:34:21 PM
There are no PME equivalents to SLS and CLC.  Both have to be taken "in-residence".
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Gunner C on September 04, 2009, 12:45:43 AM
There are no PME equivalents to SLS and CLC.  Both have to be taken "in-residence".
Oops, you're right.  Then they'll have to go to a weekday program.

In the RM, the only reason chaplains have rank is for pay and housing purposes.  That's why they're addressed as "chaplain" and their name line is:

Chaplain (Captain) Joseph Schmo

When you get down to it, you don't need rank to minister to members.  Do chaplains need further CAP professional education?  Maybe, maybe not.  Perhaps they need their own rank:  Chaplain.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Spike on September 04, 2009, 01:59:16 AM
I am wondering if I complain long enough and loud enough....will NHQ let me take NSC on line??  .

 It's  called. Air Command and Staff College

I don't want to do any work you see.  I want to view the 200 or so NSC slides and call it a day!

Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Gunner C on September 04, 2009, 05:21:22 AM
I see that a lot in CAP.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: DogCollar on September 04, 2009, 10:39:51 AM
There are no PME equivalents to SLS and CLC.  Both have to be taken "in-residence".
Oops, you're right.  Then they'll have to go to a weekday program.

In the RM, the only reason chaplains have rank is for pay and housing purposes.  That's why they're addressed as "chaplain" and their name line is:

Chaplain (Captain) Joseph Schmo

When you get down to it, you don't need rank to minister to members.  Do chaplains need further CAP professional education?  Maybe, maybe not.  Perhaps they need their own rank:  Chaplain.

Accept, as you yourself have mentioned, Chaplains participating in professional development gives them insight and understanding into the workings of CAP which helps us minister to the men and women in the organization. 

I re-read the post in PD News and it says that on-line SLS is NOW available to Chaplains.  It then goes on to say that it will become available to all who are eligible.  It seems to me that this language indicates that it will not be for Chaplains ONLY for long.

That being said, I still do not concur that SLS on line is a positive move.  I would prefer in-residence classes, more often than once or twice a year, in more locations, at varied times.  It seems to me that requiring these classes for anyone and then offering them once or twice in a wing is ridiculous and promotes frustration and dissatisfaction among those who want to advance in CAP.  Is this smart?  To purposely frustrate those who want to be most active?
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Gunner C on September 05, 2009, 03:27:11 AM
Sorry, but I had to wait three years for a CLC class that fit into my schedule.  That's just the way it is.

(BTW, it's except not accept)
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: RiverAux on September 05, 2009, 03:38:47 AM
I've been waiting for them to hold RSC within a reasonable driving distance....
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Cecil DP on September 05, 2009, 02:06:16 PM
I've been waiting for them to hold RSC within a reasonable driving distance....

Since the RSC sites are have been located in the same places for years, I would suggest you choose either the closest or one in or near a place you would like to visit.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: RiverAux on September 05, 2009, 02:23:36 PM
I know how they do things.  I was attempting to sarcastically comment on how CAP has failed to adjust this program vital for promotions to my particular needs.   >:D
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: arajca on September 05, 2009, 02:26:20 PM
When they do release this to the general membership, how long do you think the residential version will last?

Lt Joe Schmoe needs SLS to complete Level II and make Captain. His choices are:
1. Wait for someone to conduct one, take a weekend away from family, work, etc, spend money on meals, travel, and possibly a room.
2. Sit down infront of his computer, at his convienence, and do an online course for a few hours.

What is Lt Schmoe going to do?

Even though the announcement says the online version will not be the primary method of completing SLS, it will become that in short order.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: RiverAux on September 05, 2009, 02:51:44 PM
absolutley.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: DogCollar on September 06, 2009, 10:31:11 AM
Sorry, but I had to wait three years for a CLC class that fit into my schedule.  That's just the way it is.

(BTW, it's except not accept)

Thanks, once again, for catching my spelling error.  I don't know what I would do with out you as my personal proof reader. ;)

You don't see anything detrimental with waiting 3 years to take a PD required class?  It is my opinion that these classes be offered as oftne as possible at various times.  We do a disservice to those members who actually are serious about professional development by not offering in-residence classes more often.  The result being that they are becoming on-line optional.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Short Field on September 06, 2009, 05:57:07 PM
Using the timelines for a duty-performance promotion, a member will have been in 3 years before not having SLS delays a promotion.  So that is three years to get scheduled for SLS to make Captain.  They then have another 3 years to complete CLC before being delayed for Major.  Of course that is assuming they meet all the other requirements.  Three years to find a weekend is not that hard a requirement.
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Capt Rivera on September 06, 2009, 09:12:29 PM
Three years to find a weekend is not that hard a requirement.

 :clap:
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: DogCollar on September 07, 2009, 11:00:25 AM
Using the timelines for a duty-performance promotion, a member will have been in 3 years before not having SLS delays a promotion.  So that is three years to get scheduled for SLS to make Captain.  They then have another 3 years to complete CLC before being delayed for Major.  Of course that is assuming they meet all the other requirements.  Three years to find a weekend is not that hard a requirement.

Okay, but suppose you have met all the requirements, including TIG, but have to wait 1 to 2 additional years to take CLC?  When it comes to situations like that, when people are wanting  to advance and contribute to the organization, hindering them by not holding courses multiple times a year is....well, pretty stupid.  It frustrates an excited member.  I don't know how it is where you are, but we could use all the enthusiastic members we can get!
Title: Re: "SLS On-line (for Chaplains)"
Post by: Cecil DP on September 07, 2009, 12:39:53 PM
Using the timelines for a duty-performance promotion, a member will have been in 3 years before not having SLS delays a promotion.  So that is three years to get scheduled for SLS to make Captain.  They then have another 3 years to complete CLC before being delayed for Major.  Of course that is assuming they meet all the other requirements.  Three years to find a weekend is not that hard a requirement.

Okay, but suppose you have met all the requirements, including TIG, but have to wait 1 to 2 additional years to take CLC?  When it comes to situations like that, when people are wanting  to advance and contribute to the organization, hindering them by not holding courses multiple times a year is....well, pretty stupid.  It frustrates an excited member.  I don't know how it is where you are, but we could use all the enthusiastic members we can get!

This is a matter to bring up to your Wing and Group Commander's. There should be a number of people within agroup or Wing to field a staff for a CLC. Don't ask insist.