CAP Talk

Cadet Programs => Cadet Programs Management & Activities => Topic started by: Майор Хаткевич on December 22, 2016, 05:15:09 PM

Title: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on December 22, 2016, 05:15:09 PM
I have a cadet interested in working towards the Historian Badge, which requires completion of the Technician Rating requirements. I understand that cadets cannot be credited with completion of the Tech rating itself, and it appears that cadets cannot be enrolled in a track on Eservices. In this case, do I simply put out a memo with a start date for when the cadet started to work on the track, in order to have a time frame for the required minimum 6 months for the badge?
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: Eclipse on December 22, 2016, 05:20:01 PM
From a continuity standpoint a "Memo to File" isn't a bad idea, plus a 2a appointing the cadet a Cadet Historian (since cadets don't appear tin the
Duty assignment module).

Otherwise, those respective dates should appear on the technician checklist when the badge is approved.
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: kwe1009 on December 22, 2016, 05:51:12 PM
From a continuity standpoint a "Memo to File" isn't a bad idea, plus a 2a appointing the cadet a Cadet Historian (since cadets don't appear tin the
Duty assignment module).

Otherwise, those respective dates should appear on the technician checklist when the badge is approved.

Cadet duty assignment, including Historian, can be assigned in eServices.  It is the same "Duty Assignment" module.
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: lordmonar on December 22, 2016, 06:51:21 PM
I may be mistaken....but cadets cannot earn those specialty badges.

So....any duty time as a cadet historian cannot be used for credit for the Specialty Badge.
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: Shutterbug on December 22, 2016, 07:09:02 PM
Per CAPP 223:

"Cadets may serve as a Cadet Historian under a senior member Historical Officer. This does not fulfill a staff duty analysis requirement. Cadets can earn the Basic Historian Qualification Badge (Technician Rating Badge) if they can complete all of the requirements for the Technician Rating, but they cannot officially receive the Technician Ratings until they become a senior member and complete the required time as historian or assistant historian as reflected in eServices as well as any other task requiring it be completed by a member holding the duty position of historian or assistant historian."
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: Eclipse on December 22, 2016, 07:20:28 PM
From a continuity standpoint a "Memo to File" isn't a bad idea, plus a 2a appointing the cadet a Cadet Historian (since cadets don't appear tin the
Duty assignment module).

Otherwise, those respective dates should appear on the technician checklist when the badge is approved.

Cadet duty assignment, including Historian, can be assigned in eServices.  It is the same "Duty Assignment" module.

Well whadda you know? There it is - the who boat of cadet assignments, NCO and Officer!

So much for my daily goal of not learning anything!
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on December 22, 2016, 11:41:50 PM
That's okay, everyone is entitled to a mistake. But we expect from you not more than one a month!

 >:D


Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: Storm Chaser on December 23, 2016, 12:44:33 AM
Here's a question. If pamphlets are non-directive IAW CAPR 1-2, how can the authorize cadets to earn a badge associated with a specialty track rating?
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on December 23, 2016, 01:10:09 AM
You are misreading the pamphlets and regulations.  :(

Cadets do not earn the specialty track. They earn being able to display the badge.

Two different things.

The regs and pamphlets state they can display the following badges on their uniforms:

1. Communications
2. Emergency Services
3. History

Read that the regs and pamphlets further state "If they become seniors, they have XXXX time to earn the track" or something similar. If they would be able to earn the specialty track while a cadet, the regs and pamphlets would not state "If they became seniors, they have..." etc.

Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: EMT-83 on December 23, 2016, 02:38:17 AM
That must be why it's called the Senior Member Professional Development Program.
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: Storm Chaser on December 23, 2016, 06:06:17 AM
You are misreading the pamphlets and regulations.  :(

Cadets do not earn the specialty track. They earn being able to display the badge.

Two different things.

The regs and pamphlets state they can display the following badges on their uniforms:

1. Communications
2. Emergency Services
3. History

Read that the regs and pamphlets further state "If they become seniors, they have XXXX time to earn the track" or something similar. If they would be able to earn the specialty track while a cadet, the regs and pamphlets would not state "If they became seniors, they have..." etc.

You are misreading my post. I know very well that cadets can't earn specialty track ratings. I also now that traditionally there are three specialty track badges that cadets can earn by completing the track without actually earning the rating: Emergency Services, Communications, and Safety. Now it seems cadets can earn additional badges.

My point was that this should not be in a pamphlet which are non-directive IAW CAPR 1-2, but in a regulation or manual which are directive. Next time please read the post carefully before replying.
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on December 23, 2016, 10:43:53 AM
Your post was not clear enough. It was too general.

Where did you saw that cadets can wear other specialty track badges than those I mentioned?

The only ones they can wear are those specified by regulations. Which is what you were stating then?
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: DakRadz on December 23, 2016, 01:15:43 PM
Your post was not clear enough. It was too general.

Where did you saw that cadets can wear other specialty track badges than those I mentioned?

The only ones they can wear are those specified by regulations. Which is what you were stating then?
May I cut in? Y'all are two-steppin' each others toes.

Simple question which will help settle this peaceably.

Luis, can you provide a regulation quote which authorizes cadet wear of specialty badges (specifically the Historian badge, in this thread).
What SC is saying is that pamphlets do not have regulatory power.

So what manual or regulation states cadets can wear the badges?
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on December 23, 2016, 04:36:52 PM
Like I said in my previous posting, it was not clear he was referring to pamphlets that way.

So you are telling me that information on pamphlets can be ignored, when the regs do not address that point?


Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: kwe1009 on December 23, 2016, 04:57:26 PM
Part of the confusion is the way CAP uses pamphlets and regulations.  By definition a CAPP should not be regulatory and should only be informational.  Unfortunately that is not how CAPPs are implemented.  Some are even referred to by a CAPR as guidance and others state they are guidance.  This leads to confusion but in some areas no regulation exists but a CAPP does so it gets elevated to the status of regulation by default.

This will not get fixed probably ever so there will always be this issue.  It is actually an easy fix and just requires some editing of documents to move information from a CAPP to a CAPR but I don't see it happening any time soon.
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: Eclipse on December 23, 2016, 05:03:20 PM
They actually had it fixed right up until the most recent version of 1-2, which inexplicably re-broke it.
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: Storm Chaser on December 23, 2016, 07:00:56 PM
They actually had it fixed right up until the most recent version of 1-2, which inexplicably re-broke it.

Can you elaborate, please? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but only want to know what exactly "re-broke it." Thanks.
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: Storm Chaser on December 23, 2016, 07:03:25 PM
Your post was not clear enough. It was too general.

Where did you saw that cadets can wear other specialty track badges than those I mentioned?

The only ones they can wear are those specified by regulations. Which is what you were stating then?
May I cut in? Y'all are two-steppin' each others toes.

Simple question which will help settle this peaceably.

Luis, can you provide a regulation quote which authorizes cadet wear of specialty badges (specifically the Historian badge, in this thread).
What SC is saying is that pamphlets do not have regulatory power.

So what manual or regulation states cadets can wear the badges?

Thank you. That is exactly my point. CAP NHQ publishes a regulation stating that pamphlets are non-directive, yet continues to publish directives using pamphlets instead of regulations or manuals.
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: jeders on December 23, 2016, 07:35:22 PM
So what manual or regulation states cadets can wear the badges?

For the ES badge only, CAPR 35-6. Other than that, NHQ has been woefully lacking in setting proper regulatory foundations for cadets wearing specialty badges.
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: DakRadz on December 23, 2016, 08:03:16 PM
So what manual or regulation states cadets can wear the badges?

For the ES badge only, CAPR 35-6. Other than that, NHQ has been woefully lacking in setting proper regulatory foundations for cadets wearing specialty badges.
I thought one of them had an actual reg. But as for the others... *sigh*

1st Lt Raduenz

Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: arajca on December 23, 2016, 09:01:05 PM
So what manual or regulation states cadets can wear the badges?

For the ES badge only, CAPR 35-6. Other than that, NHQ has been woefully lacking in setting proper regulatory foundations for cadets wearing specialty badges.
For the Communications badges/patch, see CAPR 100-1, Chap. 4, Para 4.7.
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: jeders on December 23, 2016, 09:45:34 PM
So what manual or regulation states cadets can wear the badges?

For the ES badge only, CAPR 35-6. Other than that, NHQ has been woefully lacking in setting proper regulatory foundations for cadets wearing specialty badges.
For the Communications badges/patch, see CAPR 100-1, Chap. 4, Para 4.7.

I checked the safety and history regs but forgot to check the comm regs; thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re: Cadets pursuing allowed Specialty Tracks - Can they be enrolled in track?
Post by: arajca on December 24, 2016, 01:09:25 AM
Comm is also the only one cadets can earn all three badges, not just the basic/tech badge.