CAP Talk

General Discussion => Uniforms & Awards => Topic started by: Pylon on January 09, 2006, 04:41:09 PM

Title: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on January 09, 2006, 04:41:09 PM
So, one of my units is looking to develop a squadron patch. The squadron has been without a patch, logo, mascot, or motto since its charter.  A committee has been formed and tasked with developing a patch appropriate and meaningful to the unit.

In an effort to facilitate brainstorming the topic, I started to search the web for squadron patches that were well designed and met USAF heraldry guidelines for squadrons.  To my surprise, I was only able to find a small handful of squadron patches that were both very appealing as well as properly "formatted."

So, any of you out there have for your unit or know of other units that have really well done squadron patches?

One of the best designs I've seen so far which I like include:

http://concord.nhwgcap.org/info/patch.html

http://syracusecap.org/info/patch.html

http://www.capva.org/leesburg/graphics/squadron%20patch.gif

http://www.malmstrom.af.mil/ops/10ms/body/images/patch.jpg  (USAF, not CAP, but good nonetheless -- and good demonstration of proper use of heraldry).

Others care to chime in or share?  :-)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: thefischNX01 on January 10, 2006, 12:16:46 AM
I wish I had a picture, but Wicomico Squadron in MD has an excellent patch.  I'll see if I can find a picture

BTW....http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/gallery.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/gallery.html) has a partial gallery of CAP squadron patches.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on January 10, 2006, 12:46:42 AM
BTW....http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/gallery.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/gallery.html) has a partial gallery of CAP squadron patches.

 ;D

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MA/maranger.jpg)

I actually rate this one... Well it was never really authorized, so I don't wear it anymore... but yeah.  Version 2 has a black on the eagle and branch instead of the brown and RANGERS was replaced with GSAR.  There was also an ADVANCED rocker worn beneath the RANGERS text for those who qualfied... but there was no ADVANCED course when I was with the activity.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PhoenixRisen on January 10, 2006, 01:26:44 AM
I kinda like these *cough* my squadron *cough* ;D


(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a94/flyboy8/Patches.bmp)

For those of you who don't know, the one on the right is the "subdued" one we use for BDU's.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on January 10, 2006, 02:03:43 AM
I kinda like these *cough* my squadron *cough* ;D


(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a94/flyboy8/Patches.bmp)

For those of you who don't know, the one on the right is the "subdued" one we use for BDU's.

Nice, but as I said in my original post:

Quote
I started to search the web for squadron patches that were well designed and met USAF heraldry guidelines for squadrons

There's tons of squadron patches out there.  I've seen some good ones, too.  But I'm really looking for "the best," as in: they satisfy both visual appeal and proper heraldry guidelines as well.  Ugly circle patches and real nifty shield or other shape patches are not what I'm looking for. 

But thanks for sharing nonetheless.   ;)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Maj Ballard on January 20, 2006, 08:43:07 AM
(http://www.gainesvillecap.org/images/FL-142_logo_WEB.gif)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BillB on January 20, 2006, 09:27:57 AM
Neat patch,  but it shows a glider you don't have anymore
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Maj Ballard on January 20, 2006, 08:31:07 PM
The glider is an important part of the history of our unit. Whether or not we still have it is irrelevant.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: shorning on January 20, 2006, 08:50:29 PM
The glider is an important part of the history of our unit. Whether or not we still have it is irrelevant.

[sarcasm]And how dare your squadron use two stars and a lightening bolt.  You guys don't own those either![/sarcasm] ::)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: fyrfitrmedic on January 21, 2006, 02:53:08 AM
(http://www.tonyrowley.com/patch1d.gif)

If I was more than just slightly awake I could recite the blazon for this patch  ;D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on January 21, 2006, 03:41:55 AM
(http://www.tonyrowley.com/patch1d.gif)

If I was more than just slightly awake I could recite the blazon for this patch  ;D

Interesting!  Where does the "1001" come from?  First four of the old five digit charter numbers?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: fyrfitrmedic on January 21, 2006, 06:01:14 PM
(http://www.tonyrowley.com/patch1d.gif)

If I was more than just slightly awake I could recite the blazon for this patch  ;D

Interesting!  Where does the "1001" come from?  First four of the old five digit charter numbers?

 Back in the days when PAWG had 16 groups [10 through 100, 1100-1500 and 3100], squadron numbers ranged from 10X to 31XX. The squadrons in Group 100 [SE PA] were in the 1001-1009 range until the consolidation into three [now four] larger groups.

 The blue field and white triangle with propeller are pretty self-explanatory,as is the orange band and the green field. The stylized fleur-de-lys are actually stylized topo symbols for marsh/wetlands - a bit of an homage to the wetlands in proximity to the squadron's original location and current home. The 'circle with rockers' is both correct for unit patches per AF standards and is a bit of an homage to the 'LL patch' and its predecessors.


 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on January 21, 2006, 09:09:45 PM
Logo re-work, approved in concept, wing CC needs me to tweak the written specification before he will sign it.

Motto: "Help from Above"

Eagle is from the USAF Web site, used with written permission.

(http://group22.net/files/other/pwk_approval_compare_1_sm.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on January 21, 2006, 09:15:01 PM
Illinois Group 22, approved and in use for a couple of years.

(http://group22.net/files/other/il049.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: nonposter on February 01, 2006, 01:48:45 PM
Had to add mine Squadron's patch to the list, "I" think it looks good:

http://www.jameswilkinson.net/cap/FP%20Version/Dallas%20CAP%20Squad%20Patch.gif

- nonposter
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 01, 2006, 11:57:04 PM
Nice - saw Maj. Younger wearing that or something similiar down in Katrina.

Did any of your people participate in the shuttle recovery missions?  I'm asking because we also saw TX people wearing an insignia which commemorated the missions and wanted to see about getting a Katrina patch made.

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PhoenixRisen on February 02, 2006, 12:04:06 AM
Nice - saw Maj. Younger wearing that or something similiar down in Katrina.
Though I have no clue who Maj. Younger is, I believe you're correct.

http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/2005/12/katrina_the_aar.html (http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/2005/12/katrina_the_aar.html)

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 02, 2006, 12:35:39 AM
OK - now I am confused.  You say this is >your< unit's insignia?

Maj. Owen Younger was one of the IC's down at Katrina, and was wearing that patch as well.  Even if he was a wall flowere before (which he doesn't appear to be, I would think he received some visibility when he got back and since.

You really aren't aware of him?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PhoenixRisen on February 02, 2006, 12:40:02 AM
OK - now I am confused.  You say this is >your< unit's insignia?

Maj. Owen Younger was one of the IC's down at Katrina, and was wearing that patch as well.  Even if he was a wall flowere before (which he doesn't appear to be, I would think he received some visibility when he got back and since.

You really aren't aware of him?

Me sir? No, I never said this was my unit's insignia. Because it's not. I posted a link to answer to clarify what you said.

Quote from: Eclipse
Nice - saw Maj. Younger wearing that or something similiar down in Katrina.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 02, 2006, 12:52:46 AM
Roger that - misread on my part.

Maybe nonposter will come back w/ the info.

Whoops.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: nonposter on February 02, 2006, 06:00:29 PM
Yes, I believe we sent quite a few people on shuttle missions. I however, had not joined at that time (only been a member since Sept of last year), so I cannot provide any more info at this time. I will ask about the patches, and see who/what/where/how they were able to get them.

Oh, and for the record, it's LtCol Younger now  :clap:

- nonposter
PS - I am NOT LtCol younger, just a simple SM in his squad
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: AlphaSigOU on February 02, 2006, 10:36:06 PM
Try this page: http://www.capaddison.org/news/TX0303.html

This is the patch:

(http://www.capaddison.org/shared/tx0303b.gif)

There were some sketches floating around for a Katrina/Rita mission patch, but not much else has come up about it.

Give Col. Younger my regards.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 03, 2006, 01:09:48 PM
Any assistance anyone can provide with getting either local or national Hurricane relief patches approved would be appreciated - even if just the name, etc.

The fact that we don't have any place we could currently wear it doesn't mean we shold get one done so when updated regs come out we'll already have them

This patch has been proposed for Illinois, but we've had some "issues" getting it through to the right channels.

As soon as I can find the image I'll post ours here:

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Stephanie Allen on February 03, 2006, 04:05:30 PM
If you go to google.com, click images and search for Squadron Patch...you get some pretty cool patches. My squadron's mascot is the Flying Blood Hounds. Our mascots name is Propwash. (haha...get it?) Perhaps you can do the same thing we did and hold a fundraiser for the name and design of your mascot/patch. Not only would it be a great way to raise money, but it would also be a lot of fun to see how many great ideas people come up with.

C/Amn Allen

P.S. If you wanna see my squadron's patch visit www.kenosha.wiwgcap.org  :)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MustangCadet on February 04, 2006, 04:34:13 PM
How bout here: http://www.mustangcadetsquadron.org/logo-cap-mcs-mcspatch.jpg (http://www.mustangcadetsquadron.org/logo-cap-mcs-mcspatch.jpg)
thats my units patch on the right.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on February 04, 2006, 06:50:22 PM
How bout here: http://www.mustangcadetsquadron.org/logo-cap-mcs-mcspatch.jpg (http://www.mustangcadetsquadron.org/logo-cap-mcs-mcspatch.jpg)
thats my units patch on the right.

It violates Air Force heraldry guidelines for squadrons.  I mentioned in the opening of this topic that I was only looking for squadron patches that were appropriately designed.  Thanks for sharing, though.  :)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: kilnerd on February 06, 2006, 08:26:04 PM
it is just an idea but when my unit did a squadron patch we stuck with the AF unit heraldry explanations and it passed through our wing with flying colors. The following is one cadets idea (personally I like it) but it includes alot of reference material

http://forums.cadetstuff.org/viewtopic.php?t=3386
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: shorning on February 06, 2006, 09:22:00 PM
it is just an idea but when my unit did a squadron patch we stuck with the AF unit heraldry explanations and it passed through our wing with flying colors. The following is one cadets idea (personally I like it) but it includes alot of reference material

http://forums.cadetstuff.org/viewtopic.php?t=3386


Actually, Capt Rajca is a senior member.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: dws on February 07, 2006, 02:21:10 PM
My old squadron in NY has this patch (NY219):

(http://www.raptorsquadron.org/global/images/raptors.gif)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: shorning on February 07, 2006, 08:42:53 PM
My old squadron in NY has this patch (NY219):

(http://www.raptorsquadron.org/global/images/raptors.gif)



It violates Air Force heraldry guidelines for squadrons.  I mentioned in the opening of this topic that I was only looking for squadron patches that were appropriately designed.  Thanks for sharing, though.  :)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: afgeo4 on February 14, 2006, 05:58:39 PM
Pylon, the only patch I've so far seen that meets the guidelines of Air Force heraldry was the 10XX one.  I can't believe that so many people claim that their patches meet the standard when they've obviously not read the material.

The USAF clearly states that the Shield type patches are to be used for Command, MAJCOM, and Wing patches.  Group patches are usually rockers and odd shapes.  Squadron patches are Pie type patches with rockers on top and bottom.  The top rocker states the designation of the unit (514th AGS or So-and-So Composite Sqdn or NER-NJ-504) while the bottom rocker sports the motto.  In USAF, the MAJCOM patch is worn on one pocket of the BDU while the Wing patch is worn on the other.  The squadron patch, if worn, is placed half way from name tape to shoulder.  That's why you don't see the Pie type patch on pockets in the Air Force.  It isn't that complicated, so why isn't everyone on board?

As far as Syracuse Comp Sqdn patch, I will forward a redesign of the patch tomy superiors ASAP to be implemented with the next patch order.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on February 14, 2006, 06:14:57 PM
Pylon, the only patch I've so far seen that meets the guidelines of Air Force heraldry was the 10XX one.  I can't believe that so many people claim that their patches meet the standard when they've obviously not read the material.

No, the 10th Missile Sq patch does not meet current standards either.

Quote from: AFI84-105
3.4.2. A unit with a motto must have two scrolls. Put the unit’s designation on a scroll below the disk
and the unit’s motto in a scroll above the disc.

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: fyrfitrmedic on February 14, 2006, 06:50:15 PM
Pylon, the only patch I've so far seen that meets the guidelines of Air Force heraldry was the 10XX one.  I can't believe that so many people claim that their patches meet the standard when they've obviously not read the material.

No, the 10th Missile Sq patch does not meet current standards either.

Quote from: AFI84-105
3.4.2. A unit with a motto must have two scrolls. Put the unit’s designation on a scroll below the disk
and the unit’s motto in a scroll above the disc.



 I'm guessing he meant the 1001 patch that I posted previously.

  I strove to be both correct by USAF standards at the time the design was created [a number of years ago, incidentally] and much as possible by traditional heraldic standards as well. I'm not a subject-matter expert on heraldry but it is somewhere on my list of personal interests...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lamh Dearg on February 20, 2006, 10:43:51 PM
Pylon, the only patch I've so far seen that meets the guidelines of Air Force heraldry was the 10XX one.  I can't believe that so many people claim that their patches meet the standard when they've obviously not read the material.

The USAF clearly states that the Shield type patches are to be used for Command, MAJCOM, and Wing patches.  Group patches are usually rockers and odd shapes.  Squadron patches are Pie type patches with rockers on top and bottom.  The top rocker states the designation of the unit (514th AGS or So-and-So Composite Sqdn or NER-NJ-504) while the bottom rocker sports the motto.  In USAF, the MAJCOM patch is worn on one pocket of the BDU while the Wing patch is worn on the other.  The squadron patch, if worn, is placed half way from name tape to shoulder.  That's why you don't see the Pie type patch on pockets in the Air Force.  It isn't that complicated, so why isn't everyone on board?

Sir, you are incorrect on a number of your assertions - please check the authoritative source: 
"Guide to Air Force Heraldry"
http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/wwwroot/heraldry/heraldry.html

1) You are incorrect about Groups (Chapter 2):
"Those organizations in the USAF having headquarters are flag bearing organizations, known as establishments, such as groups, wings, and major commands (MAJCOM). Air Force Instruction 84-105, paragraph 3.3. specifies that a USAF flag-bearing organization should display its coat of arms (i.e., emblem design) on a modified heater-shaped shield......"

2) You are incorrect about the arc and rocker on the squadron patches (Chapter 3):
"The disc design for units may have either one or two scrolls. The unit designation should always appear on the bottom scroll (AFI 84-105, paragraphs 3.4.2. and 3.4.3.)....."
"....This design represents a change in policy (See AFI 84-105, paragraph 3.4.2.); consequently, one may often see a unit emblem with the motto in the lower scroll and the unit designation in the upper." 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on March 12, 2006, 02:19:16 PM
Well at least some of us notice that most of the patches shared don't meet the AF Heraldry guidelines.   :angel:


Anybody else have some squadron, group, or wing patches (that meet AF heraldry guidelines) that they'd like to share?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on March 13, 2006, 10:00:17 PM
Working on it - but my new job keeps me off the Internet during the day.

I'm kicking around an article for CS about developing patches, but I'll try to get the gist down here first.  I have to find a place to keep the images so I can put links to them.

Daniel Delaney
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on March 13, 2006, 10:12:45 PM
I'll give you space on Group22's site...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on March 14, 2006, 12:43:41 AM
Working on it - but my new job keeps me off the Internet during the day.

I'm kicking around an article for CS about developing patches, but I'll try to get the gist down here first.  I have to find a place to keep the images so I can put links to them.

Daniel Delaney

You can also click on "Additional Options..." when you post a topic or reply, and upload the images right here to the CAPTalk servers. 

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: TankerT on March 14, 2006, 12:54:07 AM
Giving this a whirl

Credit goes to TeddA for the design.

(Click for a bigger picture.)

[attachment deleted by admin- older than one year]
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on March 14, 2006, 01:18:52 AM
I've heard the group structure is new to WIWG - is that insignia set in stone, yet?

If not, I would suggest peelng back the eagle a bit so it doesn't look like it is eating the state.

More importantly, though, I would suggest tapering the letters into the lower point instead of jockeying around as they are.

I will be glad to help if needed.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: TankerT on March 14, 2006, 09:17:46 AM
Um  The eagle IS the upper part of the state.

The design is final and in use.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on March 14, 2006, 09:36:16 AM
Ah...I see that now.  Guess I need a geography refreasher.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on March 14, 2006, 10:33:48 PM
Here is an example of a Group patch I designed - I may have others up later, but this will serve to illustrate the  themes.

When designing a patch, I tend to think old school - 11th Century, in fact.  Early heraldic design was trying to meet the same goals a patch designer does now.  Both are trying to create a distinctive "brand" - an image that serves as a placeholder for the person or unit.  There are a lot of complex rules in heraldry, but they can be boiled down into a few "core values."

Simplicity - KISS is a vital design rule.  One way to encourage simplicity is to ask, "can I make a recognizable stencil of this design?"  My WIWAC sqdn could and did.  This allowed us to put it on all our gear, which is useful at a multi-unit event.

Try not to put too much on the patch.  Besides being expensive (many patch producers charge based on how many colors of thread you need), the design will get lost.  Remember, your medium is a piece of fabric 3"x3".  It's all too easy to get stuck in a computer mindset and design something that looks great on the sqdn website but makes a bad patch.  As Moff Tedda has shown, you can enhance a simple design into a sharp computer graphic.

Take a couple of colors and a couple of devices (devices is the heraldic term for items used in a shield design - stars, animals, aircraft, etc.) that are important for the unit.  This allow you to make them large enough to be distinctive.  For example, the MD Gp III design has the CAP propeller and the cross bottony (the cross found on the MD flag).  Refrain from trying to put the entire history or all of the sqdn missions on the patch - it's a patch, not a wiki article.  This leads to the next theme.

Clarity - It's not enough to come up with a simple design: you also need to make it visible.  You can do this through contrast.  A core heraldic rule is "no metal on metal or color on color."  In heraldic terms, white/gray and gold are "metals" (silver and gold, respectively) and blue, green, black and purple are colors.  Red is also a color, but you sometimes see it used like a metal.  I used it that way for Gp III.  The colors used in the Gp III patch are also the colors of the Maryland state flag - another tie in.  A good rule of thumb is to back up 10' from your image and see if your design is still visible.  If not, it will either be because the items are too small or the contrast between the item and the background is not strong enough.

One suggestion is to "be improper."  This doesn't mean PG-13 patches - "proper" is a heraldic term meaning the item is colored like it is in nature - eagles have white heads and yellow beaks and claws, for example.  This isn't used as often in early heraldry, both because of the contrast problem and because it was the style of the time.  While it might not be the style now, making an animal (or aircraft) all one color is perfectly acceptable.  One only has to look at the 11th ACR or 1st Cav Div's patches to see how effective it can be.

Balance - this can be the trickiest idea to get across.  There are two parts to balance: "filling the shield" and weight.

"Filling the Shield" means that your items are placed so that there are are not large blank spots on the patch.  For Gp III, I reversed the CAP tri-prop in order to help fill the three corners of the AF-style shield, then used the crosses to fill the blank spots.

Balance is hard to describe.  When looking at a patch, you may get the feeling that it's "too heavy" on one side.  This can happen because the items on one side are fewer in number or smaller sized than those on the other side.

It can also happen because, while the items might be the drawn the same size, their perceived sizes are much different.  For example, if one side of the patch had a lighthouse and the other side had a hummingbird, the patch might feel odd, even if the drawing sizes matched.

That is a not so nutshell overview of heraldry and how their style can help the design of CAP patches.  I will try to get more examples (and try to avoid stepping on people's toes) when I can.

Daniel Delaney

[attachment deleted by admin- older than one year]
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on March 14, 2006, 10:45:58 PM
It's nice enough, and I am assuming those crosses have some significance in your area, but it does not contain blue, which is required on a USAF herald, and I would have taken the time to properly contour the lettering.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on March 14, 2006, 11:28:57 PM
It's nice enough, and I am assuming those crosses have some significance in your area, but it does not contain blue, which is required on a USAF herald, and I would have taken the time to properly contour the lettering.

As I mentioned in my post:
Quote
For example, the MD Gp III design has the CAP propeller and the cross bottony (the cross found on the MD flag).

As to the color, I think that's a little bit silly as blue and gold aren't CAP's colors.  They're really not the AF's colors in the mind of anyone but the Office of Heraldry - I would be hard pressed to find any AF stuff that wasn't blue and white/silver.

The letters?  The ability to curve letters is just too dang hard in PowerPoint, which, along with draw, is what I used to make the design.  The proofs from the patch company looked much better, but I don't feel I have the right to use their image.

In the end, it didn't matter - I went to Uzbekistan (where my unit patch was green and whitehttp://www.greenweasels.com/ (http://www.greenweasels.com/)) and the next Gp cc dumped the design in favor of a common group patch across the Wing.  Good thing I didn't sink money into the patch order.  Oh, well: sic transit gloria mundi and all that.

Daniel Delaney
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on March 15, 2006, 10:52:50 AM
Whether a reg / rule / guideline is "silly", or not, doesn't change it from being a reg / rule/ or guideline.  A place where many CAP people get themselves in trouble on various fronts is self-deciding a respective reg is silly and ignoring it, then getting defensive if someone calls them on it, especially if they incurred cost or effort which is now wasted because of the disregard of a rule / reg / guideline.


With regards to the design itself, Powerpoint is not a graphic design tool, Photoshop, the GIMP, or similiar are.  To try and pound in nails with a saw, because a hammer is too hard to use, gets you poor results and annoys the hammer.

This is one of the reasons so many of our insignia look like they were drawn by hand, by someone with no graphics experience, who wasn't interested in taking the time to get it right.

Another example are the various CAP unit insignias which feature fighter aircraft, weapons, cards, or whatever.  Why, because they LOOK COOL! Some are for units with an affliation to a fighter base or similiar, so you can see where it comes from, but these are not appropriate to our mission.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: JAFO on March 15, 2006, 03:53:12 PM
Whether a reg / rule / guideline is "silly", or not, doesn't change it from being a reg / rule/ or guideline.  A place where many CAP people get themselves in trouble on various fronts is self-deciding a respective reg is silly and ignoring it, then getting defensive if someone calls them on it, especially if they incurred cost or effort which is now wasted because of the disregard of a rule / reg / guideline.

It's hard to get in trouble for a violating a rule that doesn't apply to you. I'm for following heraldry guidelines, but the USAF's specific heraldry guidelines simply don't apply to CAP at this time. I don't see a problem with a unit not using ultramarine blue and sun gold if they don't choose to, and one only need to look as far as a good USAF patch site to see how little of those colors appears in some of their patches.


Another example are the various CAP unit insignias which feature fighter aircraft, weapons, cards, or whatever.  Why, because they LOOK COOL! Some are for units with an affliation to a fighter base or similiar, so you can see where it comes from, but these are not appropriate to our mission.

Agreed. That's why commanders have the authority to approve or disapprove designs as they see fit. I've seen a lot of patches that  looked junky or were made simply for the cool factor, but in the absence of a governing directive of any sort, a patch will probably be approved unless it's totally off base. The easy way to fix that is to get our own heraldry rules, or incorporate by reference AFI 84-105.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on March 15, 2006, 08:43:35 PM
The rules apply if your Wing CC so designates - ILWG's does, and more and more Wings are doing this as visibility of th eissue is raised.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Fearlessleader01 on March 16, 2006, 11:09:48 AM
I'm not sure if my sqadron patch fits your guidelines, but its the best one I've seen besides the black sheep squadron. http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CT/ct058.jpg (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CT/ct058.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on March 16, 2006, 12:21:09 PM
I'm not sure if my sqadron patch fits your guidelines, but its the best one I've seen besides the black sheep squadron. http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CT/ct058.jpg (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CT/ct058.jpg)

It doesn't.  Shield shaped patches are for Groups and above... Squadrons use disks with one or two scrolls with the unit name and motto if applicable.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: AlphaSigOU on March 16, 2006, 12:34:19 PM
It's nice enough, and I am assuming those crosses have some significance in your area, but it does not contain blue, which is required on a USAF herald, and I would have taken the time to properly contour the lettering.

Just so's you know:

The Maryland flag contains the family crest of the Calvert and Crossland families. Maryland was founded as an English colony in 1634 by Cecil Calvert, the second Lord Baltimore. The black and Gold design belongs to the Calvert family. The red and white design belongs to the Crossland family. (Source: http://www.50states.com/maryland.htm)

I'm all for a specific standard for the design of squadron/group patches, but expect that those units will be screaming "You'll pry 'em off my cold, dead fingers!" before they will change. My squadron's patch shouldn't be using the shield type design, but the majority of Texas Wing squadron patches are designed that way.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on March 16, 2006, 12:58:10 PM
Phase them out... From the look of the new Air Force Utility Uniform, that's the direction the Air Force is heading. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on June 01, 2006, 03:59:28 PM
This thread hasn't been going for awhile, but I liked the discussion. For those that don't know, I'm the webmaster of the "CAP Patches" website at http://www.INCOUNTRY.us/cappatches/ .
I'm glad some of you have referenced the site and been able to use images from it!

All these cool CAP patches that that I see appearing on CAP-Talk... let's do some TRADING! I'd love to be able to preserve every patch I've see in my physical and web displays.

On the site, I have the start of a "Patch Creation" section that I think was put together about five years ago. It's been sitting in a rough stage, gathering cobwebs, and needs an extreme makeover!  I'd like to self-contain the page as much as possible, as hot-links always seem to become in-op eventually.

Basically, I'd like to include four parts to the page: CAP regs, USAF regs, heraldry (the largest portion), and ordering/manufacturing. These are the things I get asked about the most. The patch "templates" I have on there have been pretty popular too.

--------------------

NOW....
A few people have made a big stink about the shape of the patch, with shields are only used for upper level units, disks for lower level units, etc.

True - that is how the USAF does it now, however all of our wing patches (at some point) were designed during the late-40s/early-50s when the USAF was brand spanking new and used the Army's dirrections on insignia.

If we're going to change our patches to meet current USAF criteria, it needs to start at the top with the Wing Patches. They met AAC/AAF regs on conception, but the Air Force never requested we follow suit with their changes - including removing <cough> "division" patches from our shoulders.

So know that the wing patches have been removed from the shoulder, should we make shield-shape versions of them for our pockets?  I'm for it!  But until that happens, don't expect the lower-level units to start complying with a standard that doesn't exist yet.

FYI - a regulation on patch design HAS been proposed to the National Level before.

- Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: schreiberboy on June 07, 2006, 12:45:20 PM
Up in the left-hand corner is my old squadron's patch (CA-441).  It's real cool.
http://sq144.cawg.cap.gov/
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PhoenixRisen on June 09, 2006, 07:23:31 PM
Up in the left-hand corner is my old squadron's patch (CA-441).  It's real cool.
http://sq144.cawg.cap.gov/

Sorry Cheif, I've already put them up (both regular & subdued) - see my post up there ^^^.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: schreiberboy on June 09, 2006, 07:29:55 PM
Up in the left-hand corner is my old squadron's patch (CA-441).  It's real cool.
http://sq144.cawg.cap.gov/

Sorry Cheif, I've already put them up (both regular & subdued) - see my post up there ^^^.
ohh...i didn't see that before...well hey- at least we both think they're awesome ;)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PhoenixRisen on June 09, 2006, 07:32:21 PM
Up in the left-hand corner is my old squadron's patch (CA-441).  It's real cool.
http://sq144.cawg.cap.gov/

Sorry Cheif, I've already put them up (both regular & subdued) - see my post up there ^^^.
ohh...i didn't see that before...well hey- at least we both think they're awesome ;)

Definately true, definately true (heck, even if they don't meet the USAF giudelines) :D.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on June 10, 2006, 04:12:42 PM
Up in the left-hand corner is my old squadron's patch (CA-441).  It's real cool.
http://sq144.cawg.cap.gov/

Sorry Cheif, I've already put them up (both regular & subdued) - see my post up there ^^^.
ohh...i didn't see that before...well hey- at least we both think they're awesome ;)

Definately true, definately true (heck, even if they don't meet the USAF giudelines) :D.

Which was the whole point of posting patches in this thread.   ;)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: afgeo4 on January 12, 2007, 05:45:58 AM
Here's my current Group patch... working on a new one that meets all USAF heraldry standards.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: TDHenderson on January 12, 2007, 11:59:13 AM
Here is the patch I designed for the 91st All Iowa Squadron that was recently approved by the IAWG/CC. 

(http://members.cox.net/tdhenderson1/CAP/91st%20AIS%20Patch%20Final%20Small.JPG)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on January 12, 2007, 12:12:45 PM
This is the new LA Wing HQ patch

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: afgeo4 on January 12, 2007, 01:48:50 PM
This is the new LA Wing HQ patch


One of the best I've seen... what does the 16 symbolize?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: afgeo4 on January 12, 2007, 01:50:55 PM
Here is the patch I designed for the 91st All Iowa Squadron that was recently approved by the IAWG/CC. 

(http://members.cox.net/tdhenderson1/CAP/91st%20AIS%20Patch%20Final%20Small.JPG)

Does the unit have ancestry in umm... France?  ;D

Very nice looking patch, but I fear a stranger may not differentiate the motto from the squadron name... I think maybe the name should have been in numbers, not written out.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: sjtrupp on January 12, 2007, 02:25:54 PM
Pylon, the only patch I've so far seen that meets the guidelines of Air Force heraldry was the 10XX one.  I can't believe that so many people claim that their patches meet the standard when they've obviously not read the material.

The USAF clearly states that the Shield type patches are to be used for Command, MAJCOM, and Wing patches.  Group patches are usually rockers and odd shapes.  Squadron patches are Pie type patches with rockers on top and bottom.  The top rocker states the designation of the unit (514th AGS or So-and-So Composite Sqdn or NER-NJ-504) while the bottom rocker sports the motto.  In USAF, the MAJCOM patch is worn on one pocket of the BDU while the Wing patch is worn on the other.  The squadron patch, if worn, is placed half way from name tape to shoulder.  That's why you don't see the Pie type patch on pockets in the Air Force.  It isn't that complicated, so why isn't everyone on board?

As far as Syracuse Comp Sqdn patch, I will forward a redesign of the patch tomy superiors ASAP to be implemented with the next patch order.

The problem begins with the simple fact that we don't place the patches in the same place as the AF.  So should we go with the AF standard that patches on the pocket should be shields or that it is a squadron patch and us that information.  Also, most of the wing patches don't follow the standard set forth in the Air Force heraldry, so to be different from the wing patch, squadrons have been using shields.

the best option would be to completely follow the Air Force heraldry standards, starting with the Wing Patch and placement of patches.  I don't see that happening though.

SJT
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: afgeo4 on January 12, 2007, 02:37:31 PM
Pylon, the only patch I've so far seen that meets the guidelines of Air Force heraldry was the 10XX one.  I can't believe that so many people claim that their patches meet the standard when they've obviously not read the material.

The USAF clearly states that the Shield type patches are to be used for Command, MAJCOM, and Wing patches.  Group patches are usually rockers and odd shapes.  Squadron patches are Pie type patches with rockers on top and bottom.  The top rocker states the designation of the unit (514th AGS or So-and-So Composite Sqdn or NER-NJ-504) while the bottom rocker sports the motto.  In USAF, the MAJCOM patch is worn on one pocket of the BDU while the Wing patch is worn on the other.  The squadron patch, if worn, is placed half way from name tape to shoulder.  That's why you don't see the Pie type patch on pockets in the Air Force.  It isn't that complicated, so why isn't everyone on board?

As far as Syracuse Comp Sqdn patch, I will forward a redesign of the patch tomy superiors ASAP to be implemented with the next patch order.

The problem begins with the simple fact that we don't place the patches in the same place as the AF.  So should we go with the AF standard that patches on the pocket should be shields or that it is a squadron patch and us that information.  Also, most of the wing patches don't follow the standard set forth in the Air Force heraldry, so to be different from the wing patch, squadrons have been using shields.

the best option would be to completely follow the Air Force heraldry standards, starting with the Wing Patch and placement of patches.  I don't see that happening though.

SJT

Our patches aren't totally off in placement.  USAF puts on patches on their pockets.  MAJCOM on one, and Wing on the other. The squadron patch, if used, is placed on right chest, above the name tape, basically where the ES patch now goes. However, most airmen don't wear their squadron patch.  Many do wear their occupational patches though... "Red Horse" and "Prime Beef" units are a good example. I suspect the reason why squadrons made their patches shield/scrolls is so that their uniforms look like the USAF ones with shield/scroll patches on pockets.  Speaking of... we totally could change the look by simply changing the concept... we should have done it years ago... Region patch (to replace MAJCOM) and Wing patch (to replace Wing), both done in proper heraldry in shield/scroll form to be worn on pockets.  Squadron patch optional to be worn on upper right chest.  Too late now, but would have made a lot of sense.

Anyway, the point for BDU's is pretty lost since the new ABU has no patches authorized what so ever. The AF already authorized CAP to wear the ABU once it becomes available, so if/when CAP issues the order, I suspect our patches will be gone too. We shouldn't nix the patches all together though... we'll still be wearing Zoom Bags with lots of purdy patches on them.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on January 12, 2007, 03:00:16 PM


Thanks.

The 16 in the patch is the Wing number. It was carried over from our Wing Patch.  We liked the Winged Fleur de lis on our wing patch and wanted to preserve this since the wing patches are out. The RWB colors make it patriotic for the US and also our French heritage.

It also follows the USAF guidelines which we felt was a necessary requirement.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on January 12, 2007, 03:14:04 PM
Anyway, the point for BDU's is pretty lost since the new ABU has no patches authorized what so ever. The AF already authorized CAP to wear the ABU once it becomes available, so if/when CAP issues the order, I suspect our patches will be gone too. We shouldn't nix the patches all together though... we'll still be wearing Zoom Bags with lots of purdy patches on them.

One can only hope.  Note that you aren't supposed to wear unit patches on CAP bags... A point apparently lost on many members.

At this point I would advise against producing actual patches... Although logos would be fine for letterhead and such.  Wait and see.  I would rather have a nice black t-shirt or mock turtleneck with the patch logo on it than the patch itself.  All in all it's something that isn't required... but if you make a patch you are gonna want everyone to wear 'em. Or at least pay to have 'em made.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on January 12, 2007, 03:31:48 PM
Here is the patch I designed for the 91st All Iowa Squadron that was recently approved by the IAWG/CC. 

(http://members.cox.net/tdhenderson1/CAP/91st%20AIS%20Patch%20Final%20Small.JPG)

Not to be overly critical, but if the unit name is the 91st All Iowa Squadron, why isn't it in one of the scrolls? (The bottom.)  Looking at it as an outsider it is hard to discern what's what.

Edit: Fixed misquote.  Apologies to Lt Col White.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on January 12, 2007, 03:33:21 PM
Mike, you quoted my comment about the LA patch but were talking about the Iowa patch.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on January 12, 2007, 03:37:46 PM
Mike, you quoted my comment about the LA patch but were talking about the Iowa patch.

My bad... I was thinking you were from Iowa for some reason.  ???
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on January 12, 2007, 03:51:19 PM
Well Katrina tried to push us up that way. LOL
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: TDHenderson on January 12, 2007, 05:12:05 PM
The colors are from the state flag.  Iowa was originally part of the Louisianna Purchase so the colors came from the French tricolor.

As far as the text I don't really have an answer other than the full Squadron name would not have fit in the template (or would have with very very small text).  Most of us in Iowa refer to other squadrons by their number anyway so that is also a reason.  We refer to ourselves as the Ninety First more than we do the 91st All Iowa Squadron.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on January 12, 2007, 05:20:36 PM
You could abbreviate squadron as SQ and it would mostly likely fit.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on January 12, 2007, 05:48:54 PM
The French invade Iowa recently?  Dang beat me to it.

Not that I like it much, but here's ours:
(http://slcs.dyndns.org/templates/slcs_alpha/images/slcs_seal3.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on January 12, 2007, 06:15:57 PM
The French invade Iowa recently?  Dang beat me to it.

Not that I like it much, but here's ours:
(http://slcs.dyndns.org/templates/slcs_alpha/images/slcs_seal3.jpg)

That's a dang good patch...I must admit it is pleasing to the eye.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on January 12, 2007, 06:20:30 PM
why thank you sir. I'll make sure to pass that along to the guy that designed it back before written history & mastery of fire. Just minor updates over the years.  :D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: JohnKachenmeister on January 12, 2007, 08:52:23 PM
Mike:

What is the white design in the center?  It looks like it forms an ace of spades at the top of the patch, but when you firstlook at it, it looks like a dead chicken held upside down.

A tribute to Iowa's poultry farms, perhaps?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: TDHenderson on January 12, 2007, 09:23:26 PM
Hey now!  Play nice...

The ACE formed by the wings of the Phoenix symbolize our three primary missions.

Aerospace Education
Cadet Programs
Emergency Services
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: TDHenderson on January 12, 2007, 09:56:35 PM
OK, made some adjustments based upon comments received.  The squadron name is now complete on the bottom and the squadron motto in latin is on the top.  That translates to "For Our Neighbor".

Better?

(http://members.cox.net/tdhenderson1/CAP/91st%20AIS%20Patch%20Latin%20Motto%20Sm.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on January 12, 2007, 09:59:19 PM
OK - now I am confused.  You say this is >your< unit's insignia?

Maj. Owen Younger was one of the IC's down at Katrina, and was wearing that patch as well.  Even if he was a wall flowere before (which he doesn't appear to be, I would think he received some visibility when he got back and since.

You really aren't aware of him?

Major Younger is the IC of this weekend's January DSARex.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: JohnKachenmeister on January 12, 2007, 10:15:38 PM
Hey now!  Play nice...

The ACE formed by the wings of the Phoenix symbolize our three primary missions.

Aerospace Education
Cadet Programs
Emergency Services


Sorry.  I didn't know it was a Phoenix.  I couldn't quite figure out what it was.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: TDHenderson on January 12, 2007, 10:43:30 PM
No problem sir!  It was not obvious to me the first time I saw it either.  We had to retain elements from the previous squadron patch and that was the main thing we kept.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on January 13, 2007, 12:29:49 AM
OK, made some adjustments based upon comments received.  The squadron name is now complete on the bottom and the squadron motto in latin is on the top.  That translates to "For Our Neighbor".

Better?

Nice fix!  :)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SarDragon on January 13, 2007, 04:22:01 AM
OK, made some adjustments based upon comments received.  The squadron name is now complete on the bottom and the squadron motto in latin is on the top.  That translates to "For Our Neighbor".

Better?

(http://members.cox.net/tdhenderson1/CAP/91st%20AIS%20Patch%20Latin%20Motto%20Sm.jpg)

The only other fix I would suggest is to make the text on the arcs radial instead of all vertical. Like on the Sugarland patch.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on January 13, 2007, 10:44:14 AM
I think it looks good just like it is. I wouldnt make it radial. Really nice patch.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pumbaa on January 20, 2007, 07:56:15 AM
Figured I would put our patch in here..

It was designed a number of years ago by a cadet, it got approved up the chain but sat and languished for over 5 years...

The Cadet who designed it, eventually left the squadron.. (His brothers stayed and are doing very well.

Sad thing this cadet was killed in a tragic accident less than a year ago... 

As I was designing a new patch at the time not knowing about this one, I dropped my design and said we had to go and use his to honor his memory.

We are locaed in what is called the Glider capital of the world...  We have the soaring museum a few miles away, and across the runway from our building is Sweitzer aircraft who made a large contribution to the glider world. (We also have the Curtiss museum about 20 minutes away too)

(http://www.elmiracap.com/images/stories/chemunglogo.png)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on January 20, 2007, 04:29:41 PM
Figured I would put our patch in here..

It was designed a number of years ago by a cadet, it got approved up the chain but sat and languished for over 5 years...

The Cadet who designed it, eventually left the squadron.. (His brothers stayed and are doing very well.

Sad thing this cadet was killed in a tragic accident less than a year ago... 

As I was designing a new patch at the time not knowing about this one, I dropped my design and said we had to go and use his to honor his memory.

We are locaed in what is called the Glider capital of the world...  We have the soaring museum a few miles away, and across the runway from our building is Sweitzer aircraft who made a large contribution to the glider world. (We also have the Curtiss museum about 20 minutes away too)

(http://www.elmiracap.com/images/stories/chemunglogo.png)

I like the idea of the glider, but it gets lost in the flag.

A shield is inappropriate for an individual unit, and having only numbers
doesn't tell me who you are.

I respect the idea of honoring a member who died, but you might want to reconsider this and tweak things a bit.  You could use his elements in something closer to the USAF standards.

In this case, I can't tell what unit you're form, or even what service.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: flight dispatcher on February 02, 2007, 10:49:28 AM
Isn't the "challenge coin" prety much replacing the unit patch?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Fifinella on February 02, 2007, 02:06:29 PM

Better?

(http://members.cox.net/tdhenderson1/CAP/91st%20AIS%20Patch%20Latin%20Motto%20Sm.jpg)

Yes.  Less confusing, more striking.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: floridacyclist on February 02, 2007, 10:46:04 PM
Here's what we have so far, but it hasn't been approved by anone other than the Squadron CC

(http://www.rideforfatherhood.org/cap/squadronseal.gif)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BillB on February 02, 2007, 11:19:55 PM
Gene  Make sure the 172 on the patch doesn't say "USAF Aux"
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on February 24, 2007, 02:57:47 AM
Look, no quotes!  ;D

Here is my squadron's patch...

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/mn/mn104c.jpg)

Anyone wanna trade one of theirs for one of mine?

- Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: shorning on February 24, 2007, 03:32:11 PM
Here is my squadron's patch...

Aww...I like the old one!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 24, 2007, 11:16:51 PM
Isn't the "challenge coin" prety much replacing the unit patch?

Not really, kind of hard to sew a challenge coin on a BDU blouse...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 24, 2007, 11:18:51 PM
Here's what 2-1/2 years of work, and the best Chinese manufacturing can get you. We just got them from the vendor this week.

The original hand drawn insignia was designed in the mid-60's, and served first as the ILWG Group 7 Insignia, and then Palwaukee.

Few of them still exist, however the officer who drew it still has a used Grp 7 version, a used Palwaukee one, and a new, unworn leather version of the Palwaukee one.

He is still one of the most active pilots in ILWG and a 7-level CFI who looks and acts about 2/3rd's his age.

He was involved, as were most of PWK's members in the new design.

The idea was to update the eagle rescuing a downed aircraft to a more modern look and one that would conform better to the standards of heraldry.

The first shows a scan of the original center with photoshoped text (can't find the original scan).  Next is the approved art, and last is a scan of the patches.  I think they came out beautiful - the scan does not do the colors justice.

(http://group22.net/files/other/pwk_approval_compare_1c.jpg)

For those who want to nitpick, I will grant that having text in the main field breaks the rules.  This was an overt decision in an effort to pay homage to the long history of one of the oldest units in CAP.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: A1Steaksauce on February 25, 2007, 12:36:21 PM
Here's my squadron patch..........

http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/VT/vt009.jpg
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: jbkrieger on February 25, 2007, 12:38:50 PM
Looks good Bob!!  *(PWK)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: AlphaSigOU on February 25, 2007, 01:00:21 PM
This is the patch I helped design (with some additional input from others) for Texas Wing Group III:

(http://www.group3txwing.org/newsletter/0610/Group%20III%20Patch-3a.jpg)

Quote
The Group III Emblem was designed in accordance with Air Force Instruction AFI 84-105. Group and wing emblems are shield-shaped, while squadron emblems are on a disc.

The heraldic blazon (the unique language used to describe heraldic emblems) is as follows:

On a shield sable with a diminutive border or, the Texas state flag in the outline of the state of Texas proper, with a Roman numeral III gules in the field argent. On upper sinister quadrant, the Air Force emblem argent, on lower dexter quadrant a triangle argent with a three-bladed propeller gules. Motto: TERTIA SEMPER PRIMORIS (Third [Group] Is Always First).

In plain English, the above means:

On a black shield with a small gold border, the Texas state flag in the outline of the state of Texas (in its proper colors [of red, white and blue]), with a red Roman numeral III in the white field. On the upper left quadrant (as worn by the bearer), the Air Force symbol in white, on the lower right quadrant a white triangle with a red three-bladed propeller (the CAP emblem). Motto: TERTIA SEMPER PRIMORIS (Third [Group] Is Always First).

The emblem design was co-authored by 1st Lt Charles E. Corway and Capt Arthur E. Woodgate. The finishing touches were the result of a collaborative effort by a Group III team.


Significance of the Emblem: The focal point of the emblem is the State of Texas which acknowledges Group III as a part of the Texas Wing and that our volunteers support the great State of Texas.  As with the flag of the United States, the blue stands for loyalty, the white represents purity, and the red is for bravery, all traits exhibited by our volunteer members on a regular basis.  The five points of the Lone Star represent the characteristics of a good citizen, which are fortitude, loyalty, righteousness, prudence, and broadmindedness.  The Roman numeral three is the official Group designation and is positioned in North Texas near the location of the Group headquarters.

Within the black background are the symbols of the United States Air Force and the Civil Air Patrol showing the partnership that exists both by congressional order and by virtue of the great working relationship that we enjoy.  The black background represents the night sky that our volunteers often work within providing support.  The entire patch is surrounded in gold representing the purity of our intent to serve our fellow man through volunteerism.

Finally, the motto Tertia Semper Primoris is Latin and translates to “Third Always First”.  This motto puts forth the Group III ideal to always strive for excellence in all that we do.  Being first is not intended to denote winning but rather to lead the way.

P.S. Ace, I owe you a patch! Glad caparchives got ahold of one for the collection as well.

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on February 25, 2007, 02:23:09 PM
While we have never made this into a physical "patch" we put it on everything.  It was designed by me until we can get a better one going...

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p114/MajorCarrales/seal.jpg)

It says it all...were from TEXAS (via the Texas wing patch lonestar), were CAP ("CAP" and the Tri-Prop) and were from Corpus Christi (via the scrolling).

I'm gonna get a contest open to see who can design a better one.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 25, 2007, 02:37:48 PM
While we have never made this into a physical "patch" we put it on everything.  It was designed by me until we can get a better one going...

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p114/MajorCarrales/seal.jpg)

It says it all...were from TEXAS (via the Texas wing patch lonestar), were CAP ("CAP" and the Tri-Prop) and were from Corpus Christi (via the scrolling).

I'm gonna get a contest open to see who can design a better one.

Nice - it should be a  a disc w/ rockers, and this could be reshaped easily...
(http://group22.net/files/other/corpus%20christi%20example_400.jpg)

I would also suggest going with the full MAJCOM (if it ever stabilizes), and removing the "CAP".  The wings and star are really sharp and stand on their own.  The prop-n-shield tell the world you are CAP.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: AlphaSigOU on February 25, 2007, 03:19:32 PM
While we have never made this into a physical "patch" we put it on everything.  It was designed by me until we can get a better one going...

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p114/MajorCarrales/seal.jpg)

It says it all...were from TEXAS (via the Texas wing patch lonestar), were CAP ("CAP" and the Tri-Prop) and were from Corpus Christi (via the scrolling).

I'm gonna get a contest open to see who can design a better one.

Maj. C.,

Can we foreigners from North Texas enter the contest?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 25, 2007, 03:20:17 PM
We had somewhat of a mouse problem at PWK, especially late last year, so on occasion our logo changes (unoffcially) to this:

(http://group22.net/files/other/pwk_base_20_final_update_300_1.jpg)   ;D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on February 25, 2007, 03:58:34 PM
While we have never made this into a physical "patch" we put it on everything.  It was designed by me until we can get a better one going...

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p114/MajorCarrales/seal.jpg)

It says it all...were from TEXAS (via the Texas wing patch lonestar), were CAP ("CAP" and the Tri-Prop) and were from Corpus Christi (via the scrolling).

I'm gonna get a contest open to see who can design a better one.

Maj. C.,

Can we foreigners from North Texas enter the contest?

Sure...have at it.

If I may be so bold, and you can answer in PM, where do you get your patches made?  And at what cost?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on February 25, 2007, 04:01:03 PM
To Eclipse...

Thanks,

We will consider any an all suggestions.  I must say I enjoy any help I can get.

Major Carrales
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 25, 2007, 07:02:47 PM
Nice - it should be a  a disc w/ rockers, and this could be reshaped easily...
(http://group22.net/files/other/corpus%20christi%20example_400.jpg)
You should go with this format for heraldry reasons. I'm sure someone's said that already, it's all over the front of this thread. Sq's use circles & arches. Technically you should have the Sq name all on the bottom rocker also & either not have a top rocker unless you wish to put a motto there. I'd stick to the triangle/prop you have though versus majcom there. The Majcom is too much detail that small & our Texas Wg/Star isn't from the current AF logo but rather the oldschool mod of the WWII design we have on our Wg Patch.

Also, what are your thoughts on red rockers? That'd give it a real connection to the Wg patch, which we may not be keeping on BDUs w/ the new & subsequent Wg CCs.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on February 25, 2007, 07:19:28 PM
Anyone want to photochop me a squadron patch using the National Guard type Minuteman?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on February 25, 2007, 07:31:15 PM
Nice - it should be a  a disc w/ rockers, and this could be reshaped easily...
(http://group22.net/files/other/corpus%20christi%20example_400.jpg)
You should go with this format for heraldry reasons. I'm sure someone's said that already, it's all over the front of this thread. Sq's use circles & arches. Technically you should have the Sq name all on the bottom rocker also & either not have a top rocker unless you wish to put a motto there. I'd stick to the triangle/prop you have though versus majcom there. The Majcom is too much detail that small & our Texas Wg/Star isn't from the current AF logo but rather the oldschool mod of the WWII design we have on our Wg Patch.

Also, what are your thoughts on red rockers? That'd give it a real connection to the Wg patch, which we may not be keeping on BDUs w/ the new & subsequent Wg CCs.

I'll tell y'all what...

Design our unit patch...I'll present it to the unit had see what they think.  If they approve it, I'll back their descision and credit the designer in our unit history.  Maybe, in a few months when I've played a few more gigs...I make up a few.

CONUS, Alaska and Hawaii...give it your best.  Neen't be a Texan, although it would be nice.

Major Carrales
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 25, 2007, 07:33:11 PM
I can, but that's a fairly distinctive symbol, is there some really good reason you're using it? cause a lot of people are going to think that means you're a guard unit, including the guard.

Joe, I'll shop up what I just recommended & you can keep the credit if you want to use it. Just make it look good is all I ask.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on February 25, 2007, 08:28:52 PM
I can, but that's a fairly distinctive symbol, is there some really good reason you're using it? cause a lot of people are going to think that means you're a guard unit, including the guard.

Lt Col Pocher Minute Man Sq.  Used to be located at Minute Man Airfield (6B6) in Stow, MA... Which is also not to far from the Lexington and Concord area where the actual statue is located.

I like the weathered (greenish) look better.  It would also make it a bit more distinctive than the Air Guard version.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 26, 2007, 12:26:08 AM
Design our unit patch...
Alright, quick & dirty, motto is a bit cliche'. I'll play with it some more if you want... email me & let me know what you want done.
(http://www.geocities.com/dnall885/Corpus.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 26, 2007, 12:39:12 AM
Design our unit patch...
Alright, quick & dirty, motto is a bit cliche'. I'll play with it some more if you want... email me & let me know what you want done.
(http://www.geocities.com/dnall885/Corpus.jpg)

Nice, good color choice.

I would suggest using a white stroke arounf the shield, instead of losing the shape in field. 

Really sharp.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on February 26, 2007, 01:00:09 AM
Design our unit patch...
Alright, quick & dirty, motto is a bit cliche'. I'll play with it some more if you want... email me & let me know what you want done.
(http://www.geocities.com/dnall885/Corpus.jpg)

Nice, good color choice.

I would suggest using a white stroke arounf the shield, instead of losing the shape in field. 

Really sharp.


If I were to have this patch made...how would I go about that?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 26, 2007, 01:14:29 AM
Search online & local embroidery shops, compare prices & make patches. Read back earlier in the thread actually, I believe there's some discussion on prices & vendors. I'm not an expert.

Far as your motto... I got no latin skills. How's this one feel, "officium et aeris" or aeris et officium, doesn't matter. That's service/duty & flight in the air.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 26, 2007, 01:33:00 AM
You should also investigate local embroidery shops, we're using one and had much better luck quality-wise than with some of the online-places.

A local shop will be able to hook you up with non-uniform "affinty wear" stuff like polos, etc.

You're going to want to have "press-ready" art - this stuff isn't even close - 2-3+ times the actual size, or .eps'

Don't skimp on the price - go full-stitched instead of using cloth with the field color, makes a HUGE difference. 
Yes, per patch you might be talking about $3 vs $5, but its represents your unit, you may wear the thing 10 years, and you only need a few.

And don't be in a hurry with the vendors, get the colors YOU want, not what they happen to have, and insist on a a spec patch to see what it actually looks like completed.  Many will just give you a printout of their layout with thread samples attached - this is not the same thing...

I would also suggest triple-checking any latin translations, there are lots of online services, but some contradict each other.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 26, 2007, 01:47:58 AM
^ Good advise there, I'd check the latin with a preist or professor who can actually figure it out. The translators are actually a bit short on Latin versus modern languages. You can get words, but tense is everything in latin & word order can be wierd. That, a vague memory of biology, a few years of French, & common sense are the limit of my latin knowledge. The one I gave you is right. Anything more complex, like a phrase or something, you're going to need someone else's help with

Note, inserted one of those mottos to the root image above, so it's changed.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 26, 2007, 02:56:14 AM
I can, but that's a fairly distinctive symbol, is there some really good reason you're using it? cause a lot of people are going to think that means you're a guard unit, including the guard.

Lt Col Pocher Minute Man Sq.  Used to be located at Minute Man Airfield (6B6) in Stow, MA... Which is also not to far from the Lexington and Concord area where the actual statue is located.

I like the weathered (greenish) look better.  It would also make it a bit more distinctive than the Air Guard version.
Okay, I'll give it a try, but give me some more info. You have a past design, more on Pocher, unit history, more on the area & Wg, motto.... anything you particularly want included? Colors you want to use & why those in particular. I should be able to whip something together pretty fast.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on February 26, 2007, 11:24:16 AM
Here's what 2-1/2 years of work, and the best Chinese manufacturing can get you. We just got them from the vendor this week.

Bob -
OH! OH!  ME!  ME!  That turned out REAL nice! Would it be possible to purchase 3 or 4 from your squadron yet? Let me know, I'd really like to preserve one right next to the older one in my display, as well as on the website.  BTW, I like the "owl vs rat" version also, heh - a great Friday patch if ever made!


Chuck -
I added the Group III HQ patch and history to the Visitor Submissions section of the Texas Wing section of the CAP Patches website. HOWEVER, you say you've got one or more with my name it now?!  ALRIGHT!!!!  Let me know where to send the $$$.

- Ace
alamrcn@hotmail.com
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 26, 2007, 12:05:30 PM
Here's what 2-1/2 years of work, and the best Chinese manufacturing can get you. We just got them from the vendor this week.

Bob -
OH! OH!  ME!  ME!  That turned out REAL nice! Would it be possible to purchase 3 or 4 from your squadron yet? Let me know, I'd really like to preserve one right next to the older one in my display, as well as on the website.  BTW, I like the "owl vs rat" version also, heh - a great Friday patch if ever made!


Chuck -
I added the Group III HQ patch and history to the Visitor Submissions section of the Texas Wing section of the CAP Patches website. HOWEVER, you say you've got one or more with my name it now?!  ALRIGHT!!!!  Let me know where to send the $$$.

- Ace
alamrcn@hotmail.com
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/


Yes, no problem.  I need to get them to the flocks, and then I would imagine anyone who wants one can buy them.  As it happened, the vendor ran 200 without authorization, so he's sitting on a lot of stock...

And evenif patches aren't available, I shodl get you the art from the various patches in Group 22 and the Group shield.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on February 26, 2007, 12:35:24 PM
I can, but that's a fairly distinctive symbol, is there some really good reason you're using it? cause a lot of people are going to think that means you're a guard unit, including the guard.

Lt Col Pocher Minute Man Sq.  Used to be located at Minute Man Airfield (6B6) in Stow, MA... Which is also not to far from the Lexington and Concord area where the actual statue is located.

I like the weathered (greenish) look better.  It would also make it a bit more distinctive than the Air Guard version.
Okay, I'll give it a try, but give me some more info. You have a past design, more on Pocher, unit history, more on the area & Wg, motto.... anything you particularly want included? Colors you want to use & why those in particular. I should be able to whip something together pretty fast.

Just something simple with the Minuteman.  I was thinking offset the Minuteman to the left side of the patch and have three stars along the right side edge for the three missions, or incorperate the tri-prop somehow. 

I would like it on a dark blue background, with other darker colors so it will look good on the BDU without actually being subdued.  Like I said, I like the greener Minuteman that looks more like the actual statue.

No motto, but the unit name should fit on the bottom... I've tried it once before and it meets specifications IIRC. Should try to meet USAF specs as much as possible.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 26, 2007, 12:40:16 PM
I think there's nothing wrong with using >a< minuteman, but using >the< minutemand from the guard is iffy, unless you guys have a direct connection to the guard through a base or similiar affinity.

Perhaps a minutman flying in an airplane, etc.

Its problematic enough to use elements from USAF insignia, but at least there we have a connection.

(http://static.arttoday.com/thw/thw13/CL/steele/bunker_hill_day/5916516.thc.jpg?bhday002)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on February 26, 2007, 12:45:51 PM
I wasn't figuring the Guard would have a monopoly on it... Heck, it's on the state quarter too.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Minute_Man.JPG/250px-Minute_Man.JPG)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on February 26, 2007, 12:56:08 PM
Just something simple with the Minuteman.

This squadron had used a Minutemen likeness...

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CT/ct073.jpg)

I believe they have since changed their patch however.

- Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Jolt on February 26, 2007, 02:06:05 PM
^^^ Actually, I think I still see that patch sometimes.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 26, 2007, 04:40:23 PM
So nothing on Lt Col Pocher? What's up with that? Also, are you still required to wear your Wg patch, & if so do you think that'll last long term, and do you like that wing symbol on it at all?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on February 26, 2007, 04:48:09 PM
So nothing on Lt Col Pocher? What's up with that?

He was a Group Commander who helped with the formation of the unit, and who died in an aircraft accident about the time the unit was chartered.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 26, 2007, 05:46:26 PM
So is there anything referring to him & his life you'd like to include in honor of him, or don't worry about it?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on February 26, 2007, 05:58:13 PM
So is there anything referring to him & his life you'd like to include in honor of him, or don't worry about it?

Not that I can think of... I don't know much of the story other than what I mentioned.  I would focus on the Minuteman as the key design element.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on February 26, 2007, 06:00:12 PM
Mike, how much detail would an image have to have to render correctly on a patch?

Maybe I, or another, could draw you a minuteman?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 26, 2007, 06:05:32 PM
well I'm playing with the base & scroll, but what I was thinking was the wing design from you wing patch overlayed on top of the minuteman/plow - which is why I ask if you're still wearing the wg patch now & think that's going to stick in the future, and if that design is popular or not. There's a miniuteman motto in latin, I have to look up again, I had it last night. I'll give you the semi-subdued look on color choices.


I got various minuteman designs already, thanks though.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on February 26, 2007, 06:10:35 PM
Mike, how much detail would an image have to have to render correctly on a patch?

I dunno... I was always using the ANG patch as a guide, this is also why I was keeping the elements on the patch to a minimum.  CAP patches tend to be too busy IMO.

Maybe I, or another, could draw you a minuteman?

You're welcome to... I know you can draw.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on February 26, 2007, 06:28:00 PM
well I'm playing with the base & scroll, but what I was thinking was the wing design from you wing patch overlayed on top of the minuteman/plow - which is why I ask if you're still wearing the wg patch now & think that's going to stick in the future, and if that design is popular or not. There's a miniuteman motto in latin, I have to look up again, I had it last night. I'll give you the semi-subdued look on color choices.

I have heard scuttlebutt that the wing is planning to retain the patch, but I have yet to see anything in writing.  I am in the camp that thinks they should go bye-bye actually, but haven't removed them... just in case. I still appreciate the AAF roots to the patch though.  I'd have to see how the wings look on it.   I'm actually not pro-squadron patches either, but I would like a logo that would work as a patch.

I don't really want to add a motto just for the patch.  It's not a requirement IIRC.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 26, 2007, 06:34:51 PM
No it isn't a requirement. I'll send it over this evening & you can see how it feels though. I'm also not pro-sq patch, but do like use on letterhead & websites. I'll play with the design & try to keep it as un-busy as possible, and of course the under-stated colors.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 27, 2007, 02:20:58 AM
(http://www.geocities.com/dnall885/minuteman.jpg)

Pretty simple & straightforward. I can darken up the colors & use your green statue guy instead of the standard guard one. Just something simple to look at for the concept.

Motto I was talking about...
Ense et aratro - With sword and plow. (citizen-soldier, one who serves in war and peace)

I really like the one I put on Joe's patch though.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on February 27, 2007, 10:29:52 AM
Design our unit patch...
Alright, quick & dirty, motto is a bit cliche'. I'll play with it some more if you want... email me & let me know what you want done.
(http://www.geocities.com/dnall885/Corpus.jpg)

Nice, good color choice.

I would suggest using a white stroke arounf the shield, instead of losing the shape in field. 

Really sharp.

Non concur on the shield - Fimbriation (the placing of a defining line around a symbol whose color is too close to the background) usually washes out at what would be the normal viewing distance.  You'd be better off just using the triangle and tri-prop and making is as large as possible to fit the space, though the space between the wings doesn't lend itself to symbols that aren't long and narrow, like swords or elongated 4 point stars.

BTW, since this is almost a direct copy of the TXWG patch, you may want to get an extra sign off from the CC before proceeding much further.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 27, 2007, 11:33:49 AM
With regards to the stroke, there might be some practical realities to stiching, but I wouldn't let that limit the actual image used for the graphic.

On the group shield, we got a single thread width to make the stroke and it seperated fine.

That patch is earlier in this thread.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 27, 2007, 02:49:30 PM
thei's no shield there, just the triangle. I already tried to straighten it out pixel by pixel, but it's going to be coppy cause of the size. This is why art used for the actual patch must be 3-5 times actual size.

It's a tx wg unit, so there's not problems using elements of the wing patch, especially since that'll go away at some point.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on February 27, 2007, 03:19:00 PM
(http://www.geocities.com/dnall885/minuteman.jpg)

Can you try something different with the black boarder and scroll?  It just seems like a lot of black.  It might not be so bad if the boarder and text of the scroll were the same color, but the background color was different maybe.  Unit name should be in caps I think.

Not sure about the wings yet.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 27, 2007, 04:12:15 PM
(http://www.geocities.com/dnall885/minuteman2.jpg)

I can change that scroll out if you want a dif look. What's up on those wings? If you like em, that's fine if not, that's okay too, just tell me what other CAP element you want in there & I'll fix it up.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on February 27, 2007, 05:52:58 PM
Those wings with the disk look like the flying ball from Harry Potter. HAHAHA
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on February 27, 2007, 06:07:16 PM
The Golden Snitch Composite Sqdn?  I like it!

Otherwise, I think the patch might have jumped the tracks a bit.  I would suggest finding an image of the Minuteman that carries a distinctive outline.  Not only will it be easier to see on the patch, it will make a great stencil.  Indeed, "does it make a good stencil" is one of the questions on my checklists when coming up with a design.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 27, 2007, 07:43:52 PM
Or a filled silhouette...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 28, 2007, 12:31:34 AM
(http://www.geocities.com/dnall885/task.jpg)
This is the patch I swiped the outline from, not much silouette there. He said he wanted the green statue from the next town over or something like it, not so much the distinctive ANG version. He also siad under-stated semi-subdued colors. The wing set is off thier Wing patch which seems to be going away.

I'm happy to photoshop a little art for people now & then, maybe even be a little creative, but if there's specifics people want you have to give me that guidance.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on February 28, 2007, 06:05:47 PM
Sorry about the confusion - I think there might be a lack of common terminology.  The patch shape you're using is a little non-standard.

This page: http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/heraldry/chapter_two.html has the "standard" symbol shapes (round for sqdn and below, shield for Gp and above):  it also has some helpful suggestions on designing patches for the AF.

I posted on this before in a lot of detail back on pg 3 of this thread so I'll try to avoid repeating myself.  While there are no hard and fast rules in CAP designs, I think you're always better off making a distinctive patch that people will eventually associate with the unit instead of trying to put everything about the unit on the patch.  A simple patch can be fancied up for use in more detailed media - just look at all of the shirts 7.62 Design http://www.7point62design.com/ makes for Army units.

In the end, though, it's not my patch nor have I become the "patch police" - if the unit and the boss like it, that's really all that matters.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on February 28, 2007, 06:23:14 PM
I appreciate the links & I am familiar with them...

The shape I'm using is standrd. Circle with banner. Bottom banner is for unit name, in this case that's the long azz: "LtCol Pocher Minute Man Comp Sq" (I assume it's composite). You don't put the top banner on unless you're displaying a motto, which is not mandatory & he opted not to do so, though i suggested a couple applicable ones. That the profile be perfectly round, and the exact shape or attachment of the banner(s) is common, but not standard or in any way required. As an example, I'd draw your attention to my own Sq patch, which is in many ways similiar:
(http://slcs.dyndns.org/templates/slcs_alpha/images/slcs_seal3.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on March 01, 2007, 11:45:10 AM
I've gathered a bunch of USAF used shapes on my website at...
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/creation.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/creation.html)
...under the "Size and Shape" section.

I reference the USAF Shield/Disk instruction and some others, but don't make a big deal of them. If following the USAF guidlines is something that your unit feels good about doing, fantastic. CAP not having any such guidelines can be both good and bad in many ways, but it sure makes for a lot of great history!

Something not mentioned in the USAF instruction or on my website is that all colors (red,green,blue, black,etc) within the field should be separated by a metal (white,yellow,silver,gold). The standard, or primary focus symbol of the patch is usually not subject to this, just the background. VERY, VERY few patches follow this heraldric guideline. There are so many of these little tid-bit rules, that they start to encroch on the whole design process.

I say, "Do what you want with your patch, but make sure it represents EVERYONE that wears it, and there is good reason and purpose for everything included in it." I think that is a good enough rule by itself for Civil Air Patrol patches.

-Ace
I\/PATCHES!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on March 01, 2007, 12:17:51 PM
I've gathered a bunch of USAF used shapes on my website at...
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/creation.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/creation.html)
...under the "Size and Shape" section.

I reference the USAF Shield/Disk instruction and some others, but don't make a big deal of them. If following the USAF guidlines is something that your unit feels good about doing, fantastic. CAP not having any such guidelines can be both good and bad in many ways, but it sure makes for a lot of great history!

Something not mentioned in the USAF instruction or on my website is that all colors (red,green,blue, black,etc) within the field should be separated by a metal (white,yellow,silver,gold). The standard, or primary focus symbol of the patch is usually not subject to this, just the background. VERY, VERY few patches follow this heraldric guideline. There are so many of these little tid-bit rules, that they start to encroch on the whole design process.

I say, "Do what you want with your patch, but make sure it represents EVERYONE that wears it, and there is good reason and purpose for everything included in it." I think that is a good enough rule by itself for Civil Air Patrol patches.

-Ace
I\/PATCHES!


Dont forget to make sure the patch is professional in appearance rather than juvenile or comical.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: baronet68 on March 01, 2007, 03:17:12 PM
Here's our patch:

(http://www.mcchord.org/images/patch/SqdnPatch.gif)

I believe the basic design dates to the mid/late 1970's, with the only update being the charter number "46039" was replaced by "SQDN" when the charter number format changed and "PCR-WA-039" didn't fit.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on March 01, 2007, 03:20:45 PM
Nice
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: carnold1836 on March 01, 2007, 04:01:23 PM
I really like my squadron's patch.

(http://www.pegasuscap.org/_Homepage_Website/pictures/New_Pegasus_patch.jpg)


The Pegasus was hand drawn with pencil and paper by one of our cadets.

(http://www.pegasuscap.org/_Homepage_Website/pictures/rivas_pegasus_drawing.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on March 01, 2007, 04:09:30 PM
Yeah I noticed you guys had changed the horse from the old patches. The sharp lines on that one look good - modern, mechanical, very AF.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on March 01, 2007, 04:54:25 PM
Sharp looking patch. Professional and represntative
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: brasda91 on March 02, 2007, 11:57:56 AM
Minime Desistite - Never, Ever Give Up!!
Orange Triangle and Blue Square - Standard SAR symbols
Crow - One of the smartest birds, very resourceful
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on March 02, 2007, 12:45:22 PM
There is no identification of any unit or wing on this. Also no obvious association with CAP. Although it has the SAR symbols, its not readily apparrent that this is what they are. A rather ambiguous patch. Sorry, just my opinion.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on March 02, 2007, 06:04:10 PM
Dont forget to make sure the patch is professional in appearance rather than juvenile or comical.

Like this one?

(http://www.INCOUNTRY.us/cappatches/de/notmine/lee-cpb2.jpg)

If the patch wasn't professionsal, I don't think it would have "good reason and purpose" then. Comical patches can be done in good taste, as long as that isn't the primary goal. It's Ok to have some fun with it too - just don't disrespect yourself, your unit, your wing... Civil air patrol, the USAF, and the USA in doing it! Professionalism? Absolutely!

Anyone wanna see some examples of Looney Tunes CAP patches? They're fun!

- Ace

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BBerry on March 16, 2007, 04:05:25 AM
Speaking of patches from the comics -- here's the Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron (http://gawg.cap.gov/GA045/) patch from the 'splash' on our website:

(http://gawg.cap.gov/GA045/images/New%20Splash%20Page%202b.jpg)

The patch and our unit have a long history, but the short version of the Snoopy patch's story can be found at Ace Browning's great CAP Patch site (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/GA/notmine/ga045.html). 

We could argue the finer points of patch heraldry and design, but we're too busy training for the next mission...

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: coshell on March 17, 2007, 09:55:11 PM
I kinda like these *cough* my squadron *cough* ;D


(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a94/flyboy8/Patches.bmp)

For those of you who don't know, the one on the right is the "subdued" one we use for BDU's.

What uniform do you wear the patch on other than the BDUs and Flightsuit (which I would also use the subdued version on)?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on March 17, 2007, 10:57:22 PM
Camo / Blue BDU's - right breast pocket

Canmo / Blue BDU field jacket - right breast pocket

Flightsuit - Right shoulder in optional space

Blue utilities - Right shoulder in optional space

That's it!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on March 18, 2007, 12:24:59 AM

For those of you who don't know, the one on the right is the "subdued" one we use for BDU's.

What uniform do you wear the patch on other than the BDUs and Flightsuit (which I would also use the subdued version on)?

In the AF, you don't wear subdued patches on the flightsuit (exception: AFSOC does, but they're so special it's their middle name.)  ;)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Jolt on March 18, 2007, 12:51:44 AM
If I understand correctly, the reason that the AF doesn't wear subdued patches on their flight suits is because they sanitize their uniforms before they go out to the planes.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on March 18, 2007, 09:44:22 AM
Flightsuit - Right shoulder in optional space

Blue utilities - Right shoulder in optional space

Negative.

Quote from: CAPM 39-1 Table 6-4.
10 Organizational (Unit)Patch embroidered centered on the lower portion of the right breast pocket of BDU or field uniform shirt or BDU or dark blue field jacket between left and right edges and bottom of flap and pocket. (See note 2.) Patch must be approved by wing commander
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: pixelwonk on March 18, 2007, 11:00:26 AM
Flightsuit - Right shoulder in optional space

Blue utilities - Right shoulder in optional space

Negative.

Quote from: CAPM 39-1 Table 6-4.
10 Organizational (Unit)Patch embroidered centered on the lower portion of the right breast pocket of BDU or field uniform shirt or BDU or dark blue field jacket between left and right edges and bottom of flap and pocket. (See note 2.) Patch must be approved by wing commander

Negatory on your negative Mike, time to get the spectacles checked.

He's right, and was referring to the "Dark blue, non-nomex flight suit" by using it's official term, which is Dark Blue Utility Uniform. (minus mentioning the dark part)

He covered the BDU/BBDUs above. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on March 18, 2007, 11:10:17 AM
I know what he meant, and I checked the manual while posting.

Quote from: CAPM 39-1 Figure 4-5.
5. Optional Shoulder Patch: Worn centered 1/2 inch below shoulder seam on right sleeve. Member
may choose one of the authorized patches for the right shoulder (see Chapter 6)
, may be wing,
region or National shoulder patch.

Emphasis added, with emphasis added.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: pixelwonk on March 18, 2007, 11:25:06 AM
I know what he meant, and I checked the manual while posting.

Quote from: CAPM 39-1 Figure 4-5.
5. Optional Shoulder Patch: Worn centered 1/2 inch below shoulder seam on right sleeve. Member
may choose one of the authorized patches for the right shoulder (see Chapter 6)
, may be wing,
region or National shoulder patch.

Emphasis added, with emphasis added.

Who am I to debate the Reg Slinger? :D
In reference to the above, 8. mentions that Any deviations to the above must be approved by the region commander concerned., thus, it may be plausible that a unit patch may be worn.

Time to ask the CAP Magic 8-ball knowledgebase  ::)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on March 18, 2007, 11:36:14 AM
In reference to the above, 8. mentions that Any deviations to the above must be approved by the region commander concerned., thus, it may be plausible that a unit patch may be worn.

Possibly, but only on the blue Nomex bag... and only applicable to members of said region.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: pixelwonk on March 18, 2007, 11:46:01 AM
I actually did ask the Knowledgebase, so I'm eager to hear what the semi-official position is.   :D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on March 18, 2007, 03:10:29 PM
speaking of the knowledgebase, I was poking around in there and found a statement that unit patches are supposed to be sent to the CAP National Historian after approval for inclusion in the historical collection.... Have you guys been doing that? 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on March 18, 2007, 10:12:05 PM
If I understand correctly, the reason that the AF doesn't wear subdued patches on their flight suits is because they sanitize their uniforms before they go out to the planes.

You are correct - since it's not required to wear a uniform with name and patches to comply with LOAC, there's no sense giving away information above and beyond "name, grade serial number and date of birth."
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: jason.pennington on April 01, 2007, 01:21:01 PM
I designed this patch for our squadron in Huron, CA.  While I admit it is a simple patch, I would appreciate any suggestions for revisions in the future.  The colors were selected because the school we are chartered by, have burgundy, black, and white as their school colors. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on April 01, 2007, 02:16:56 PM
If you change the shape to the normal USAF SQ design (disc with tabs at top and bottom) you can use all these colors and information easily.

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on April 01, 2007, 03:21:59 PM
speaking of the knowledgebase, I was poking around in there and found a statement that unit patches are supposed to be sent to the CAP National Historian after approval for inclusion in the historical collection.... Have you guys been doing that? 

I got a friendly letter the other day on ours, since we've got coins due shortly, haven't sent him anything, yet.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on April 01, 2007, 03:23:43 PM
I designed this patch for our squadron in Huron, CA.  While I admit it is a simple patch, I would appreciate any suggestions for revisions in the future.  The colors were selected because the school we are chartered by, have burgundy, black, and white as their school colors. 

Is this actually in use?  Its more of a BSA-type shoulder patch than a military-type unit insignia, and the colors
are not compliant with the Heraldry rules.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eagle400 on April 01, 2007, 04:27:40 PM
Here's a favorite of mine:

(http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/9986/graphics/line1.gif)

Simi Valley Challenger Composite Squadron 1986.

Sorry the picture of the squadron seal is so fuzzy.  I'll try to get a better one on here.  A better one can be found in the background of this site: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/9986/
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: jason.pennington on April 01, 2007, 09:27:37 PM
We haven't ordered any yet.  But, yes, it is the design we are going with now.  It is more the shape of California's sheriff dept's patches than a BSA council patch.  But I get your point.  I wanted it to be unique.  So far there is no regs on how the patch should look and everyone is using the basic AF shield type design.

Thanks for the reply on the disk and tabs.  I will look at that.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DNall on April 01, 2007, 09:45:31 PM
^ No regs for the most part (some wings have supplements on the issue), but there is a cultural influce to do it right.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on April 01, 2007, 10:06:55 PM
^ No regs for the most part (some wings have supplements on the issue), but there is a cultural influce to do it right.

Yes, and in any case the Wing CC has to approve, and they are increasingly aware of the rules...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: jason.pennington on April 01, 2007, 11:42:56 PM
Check this design out.  I think it looks good!  It also resembles other AF patches in shape.  As far as concepts go, I used the burgundy (school color) as the background.  Since we are the first school program unit in California, I used a lamp on top of books to symbolize education.  The CAP shield is atop the lamp, and our number is on the patch.

Any other ideas?  THanks for your suggestions so far.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: arajca on April 02, 2007, 01:03:16 AM
Check this design out.  I think it looks good!  It also resembles other AF patches in shape.  As far as concepts go, I used the burgundy (school color) as the background.  Since we are the first school program unit in California, I used a lamp on top of books to symbolize education.  The CAP shield is atop the lamp, and our number is on the patch.

Any other ideas?  THanks for your suggestions so far.
Following AF rules, units do not use the modified heater shield (aka Air Force shield). Units use a disk with a scroll below with the unit name/number and (optional) a scroll above with a unit motto. Only groups and higher use the shield.
I'd move the unit number to the scroll (HURON CADET SQDN CA-801). Moving the number to the scroll allows for larger images in the body.
You have alot of detail that will get lost when it is embriodered. Simplify your graphics.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on April 02, 2007, 09:53:19 AM
Check this design out.  I think it looks good!  It also resembles other AF patches in shape.  As far as concepts go, I used the burgundy (school color) as the background.  Since we are the first school program unit in California, I used a lamp on top of books to symbolize education.  The CAP shield is atop the lamp, and our number is on the patch.

Any other ideas?  THanks for your suggestions so far.

The shield is reserved for Command levels in the USAF. SQ's use the disc with the tabs above and below. if you go to www.af.mil the click on the ART tab, you'll see many examples of SQ patches and Command patches. I think you'll find this shape will work better for you.

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on April 02, 2007, 11:42:01 AM
I know you like the burgandy, but the field should be blue...

I do like the idea of the books.  What about a Cessna on top of the books instead of the lamp?

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: arajca on April 02, 2007, 12:10:34 PM
Eclipse, burgundy is fine for the background since it does related strongly to the basis for the unit and was not selected just 'because'. Even AF units use colors other than blue for the background on their patches.

Make the scroll(s) blue with gold/yellow lettering.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eagle400 on April 02, 2007, 02:27:00 PM
Does anyone know if the institution of heraldry rules for CAP has been proposed?  I think it would be a good idea.  I understand some wings have their own standards of heraldry (according to the WG/CC, since he/she is the final authority on unit patches), but I'm talking about heraldry rules from national, for all levels of command within the organization. 

Besides, discs look better for squadron patches  ;).
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on April 02, 2007, 02:33:15 PM
Eclipse, burgundy is fine for the background since it does related strongly to the basis for the unit and was not selected just 'because'. Even AF units use colors other than blue for the background on their patches.

Make the scroll(s) blue with gold/yellow lettering.

I post this knowing full well we are not bound by them, however as indicated the tradition, affinity, and (now) awareness of them by Wing CC's >is< an issue these days.

http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/heraldry/heraldry.html

I also stand (semi-)corrected, while blue, yellow, and white are indicated as "should", there's no specific as to where, nor do they use the term "will", and there doesn't appear to be any indication how/where the colors should be used.

Quote from: Air Force Historical Research Society
Using Colors in Emblems

The colors of an emblem often have significance but that is always secondary to the symbolism of the emblem. The colors of the Air Force, ultramarine blue and Air Force yellow, should appear in the design;the blue represents "the sky", the primary theater of Air Force operations, while Air Force yellow represents "the sun" and the excellence required of Air Force personnel. A note of caution, ultramarine blue, while it represents the sky, is not a light blue; an ultramarine blue shield or disc is fairly dark and requires charges of good contrast. A rule of thumb when assigning color to design elements is to use colors that contrast: dark on light, light on dark. Heraldry divides colors into metals -- gold (yellows) and silver (white, silver gray) -- and colors (reds, blues, greens). The cardinal rule of heraldry is no metal on metal and no color on color.
(emphasis mine)

This site has excellent information and is a good guide for any new unit insignia.  If you follow their examples it would be hard to make a bad design.

Too busy is generally what get most people in trouble.

As an FYI, and probably mentioned before, the current and former ILWG/CC is aware of and requires adherence to these rules, though not retroactively, and not to a 100% letter.  This is as much my own fault for bringing it to their attention... 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eagle400 on April 02, 2007, 03:09:57 PM
That's interesting, since there are some Air Force squadron patches that do not have Air Force yellow or ultramarine blue.  Examples:

(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:607ihDt3Ji8XkM:http://www.elmendorf.af.mil/3wing)(http://www.ljmilitaria.com/4db70b5e0.jpg)(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/usaf/images/204as.gif)(http://www.militaryplaques.com/Air/74th-Air-Refueling-Squadron-Patch-Plaque.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on April 02, 2007, 03:34:15 PM
Hey, if the color or symbol has significance for your unit - use it.  That's the whole point of these patches.  To represent/symbolize something of significance with regards to your unit.

Though I do recommend that squadrons use the circle-shaped patch to follow USAF heraldry guidelines. 

Our Group HQ patch design had been around a long time, but on a non-standard shape.  In December, they updated the design by just placing it "into" the heater-shaped shield to make it "compliant."

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eagle400 on April 02, 2007, 03:38:40 PM
Hey, if the color or symbol has significance for your unit - use it.  That's the whole point of these patches.  To represent/symbolize something of significance with regards to your unit.

Though I do recommend that squadrons use the circle-shaped patch to follow USAF heraldry guidelines. 

Our Group HQ patch design had been around a long time, but on a non-standard shape.  In December, they updated the design by just placing it "into" the heater-shaped shield to make it "compliant."

I agree.

Say, do you know if anyone has proposed that AF heraldry rules be instituted by CAP?  I've been trying to figure this out.  I don't think it would be too difficult for CAP to do, since so there are so many uniform changes that have been made already. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on April 02, 2007, 03:46:06 PM
Hey, if the color or symbol has significance for your unit - use it.  That's the whole point of these patches.  To represent/symbolize something of significance with regards to your unit.

Though I do recommend that squadrons use the circle-shaped patch to follow USAF heraldry guidelines. 

Our Group HQ patch design had been around a long time, but on a non-standard shape.  In December, they updated the design by just placing it "into" the heater-shaped shield to make it "compliant."

I agree.

Say, do you know if anyone has proposed that AF heraldry rules be instituted by CAP?  I've been trying to figure this out.  I don't think it would be too difficult for CAP to do, since so there are so many uniform changes that have been made already. 

OK, just to "put on the black hat..."

1) How many unit currently have produced patches on uniforms that do not comply with what is likely to be the adopted standard?

2) Is this number significant to cause backlash?

3) What would the USAF like to see in patches for CAP?

4) Are unit patches going to even remain in the uniform lexicon?  I can see it moving to where individual unit patches get "bumped off."


Remember...this is a "black hat" post, not a negative.  The idea is to find creative solutions to potential problems.  Please, don't take this as a "let's shoot it down" post.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on April 02, 2007, 04:00:00 PM
I don't see unit insignias going anywhere anytime soon.

As for phase-in of standard shapes, very few couldn't be easily altered to the new shape, and you simply require that the next time patches are ordered they be the "correct" shape, etc.

If you look at historic insignia, especially from WWII, a lot were home-grown, and then phased out over the years.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RogueLeader on April 02, 2007, 04:02:51 PM
Ours uses the MAJCOM Style, like AF chest patches.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: c172drv on April 02, 2007, 04:03:04 PM
Here is an old patch from my squadron.  Unfortunately it was changed by a former commander for some reason to something that was pretty lame since it has no heraldry that I can find.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on April 02, 2007, 04:03:11 PM
That's interesting, since there are some Air Force squadron patches that do not have Air Force yellow or ultramarine blue.  Examples:

(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:607ihDt3Ji8XkM:http://www.elmendorf.af.mil/3wing)(http://www.ljmilitaria.com/4db70b5e0.jpg)(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/usaf/images/204as.gif)(http://www.militaryplaques.com/Air/74th-Air-Refueling-Squadron-Patch-Plaque.jpg)

That's funny - 64th TAS was a 130 unit out of O'Hare, which my buddy and his brother were in. It was the basis for the Palwaukee insignia, and is even referenced in the approved definition.

Quote from: Palwaukee (approved) insignia definition
Rockers:   Blaze orange as an homage to the 64th Tactical Airlift Squadron (deactivated 31 March 1997) formerly based at O’Hare Airport.

(http://group22.net/files/other/pwk_approval_compare_1c.jpg)



Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on April 02, 2007, 04:05:34 PM
I agree.

Say, do you know if anyone has proposed that AF heraldry rules be instituted by CAP?  I've been trying to figure this out.  I don't think it would be too difficult for CAP to do, since so there are so many uniform changes that have been made already. 

I know of no such efforts currently in the works.  However, I am certainly by no means omniscient, and there could be a proposal or two floating around in development out there.

I have heard unconfirmed RUMINT from several sources that some Wing Commanders have currently or have in the past only approved designs submitted to them if they complied with USAF guidelines.  That certainly is within the realm of control for each Wing CC.


2) Is this number significant to cause backlash?

Backlash?  Dude, what are you talking about?  (http://www.militariacollecting.com/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

If CAP implemented heraldry guidelines for unit patches, there would obviously be a grandfathered-in policy for existing unit patches already in wear/use.   Thus, you avoid backlash potential.


3) What would the USAF like to see in patches for CAP?

You mean, if they cared?  

Since the USAF is abandoning all patches, including unit patches, on the ABU and the only unit patches remaining would be on the flight suit - I doubt if they care that much.   If they did, though, I imagine they'd like to see us meet their guidelines and standards.

4) Are unit patches going to even remain in the uniform lexicon?  I can see it moving to where individual unit patches get "bumped off."

Again, USAF is moving away from them in the ABU.  But they'll remain on flight suits and they'll certainly remain on unit memorbilia (mugs, t-shirts, on walls and podiums, on challenge coins, etc.).  No reason to abandon a symbol of your unit, just because you don't wear it on your BDUs.  There are plenty of other places you can use such a symbol to built unit pride, morale, and cohesion.


I think such a policy in CAP would be a good thing, but it might just be easier to educate Wing CC's on standards and ask they only approve those that meet the guidelines.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eagle400 on April 02, 2007, 04:07:59 PM
OK, just to "put on the black hat..."

1) How many unit currently have produced patches on uniforms that do not comply with what is likely to be the adopted standard?

I don't know, but if I had to take a guess, I'd say at least 70% of patches in CAP.  

2) Is this number significant to cause backlash?

Depends on whether or not CAP institutes AF heraldry rules.  Obviously, folks will not want to change their unit/group/wing patches to match the style of those of the Air Force.  Why?  Because we're talking about a lot of money here.  Thought the "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" BDU branch tapes were expensive for people?  Wait until the majority of units/groups/wings in CAP have to redesign their patches!

I'm all for the idea, I just don't think it would be popular.    

3) What would the USAF like to see in patches for CAP?

Don't know.  If I was the CSAF, I'd want CAP to follow the Air Force standards, as CAP is the USAF Auxiliary (even if for only a small fraction of the time).  

4) Are unit patches going to even remain in the uniform lexicon?  I can see it moving to where individual unit patches get "bumped off."

The Air Force does seem to be moving in that direction with regard to the new ABU, which will have no patches at all.  Now, The Air Force will continue to wear unit patches on the flight suit, but CAP won't have that option until National authorizes them on the flight suit again.  I hope that happens soon.  Squadron patches are good for morale, no matter what uniform they're on.   :)  

Remember...this is a "black hat" post, not a negative.  The idea is to find creative solutions to potential problems.  Please, don't take this as a "let's shoot it down" post.

No worries, sir.  Got no reason to think it's a "let's shoot it down" post.  
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on April 02, 2007, 04:17:06 PM
I agree.

Say, do you know if anyone has proposed that AF heraldry rules be instituted by CAP?  I've been trying to figure this out.  I don't think it would be too difficult for CAP to do, since so there are so many uniform changes that have been made already. 

I know of no such efforts currently in the works.  However, I am certainly by no means omniscient, and there could be a proposal or two floating around in development out there.

I have heard unconfirmed RUMINT from several sources that some Wing Commanders have currently or have in the past only approved designs submitted to them if they complied with USAF guidelines.  That certainly is within the realm of control for each Wing CC.


2) Is this number significant to cause backlash?

Backlash?  Dude, what are you talking about?  (http://www.militariacollecting.com/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

If CAP implemented heraldry guidelines for unit patches, there would obviously be a grandfathered-in policy for existing unit patches already in wear/use.   Thus, you avoid backlash potential.


3) What would the USAF like to see in patches for CAP?

You mean, if they cared?  

Since the USAF is abandoning all patches, including unit patches, on the ABU and the only unit patches remaining would be on the flight suit - I doubt if they care that much.   If they did, though, I imagine they'd like to see us meet their guidelines and standards.

4) Are unit patches going to even remain in the uniform lexicon?  I can see it moving to where individual unit patches get "bumped off."

Again, USAF is moving away from them in the ABU.  But they'll remain on flight suits and they'll certainly remain on unit memorbilia (mugs, t-shirts, on walls and podiums, on challenge coins, etc.).  No reason to abandon a symbol of your unit, just because you don't wear it on your BDUs.  There are plenty of other places you can use such a symbol to built unit pride, morale, and cohesion.


I think such a policy in CAP would be a good thing, but it might just be easier to educate Wing CC's on standards and ask they only approve those that meet the guidelines.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that USAF decides to continue with the unit patches as the ABU gets implemented. Since the new service coat is designed around heritage, someone will eventually argue the same for the unit patches and return them. All it takes is a stroke of the pen from the next USAF CC as McPeak's uniform has been changed each time.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on April 05, 2007, 03:57:45 PM
Here is an old patch from my squadron.  Unfortunately it was changed by a former commander for some reason to something that was pretty lame since it has no heraldry that I can find.

Does this help? I received this information almost 11 years ago, and sometimes it pays to hang on to it for just this reason - when we forget where we have been.

- Ace

------------------------------------------------------

"The essential design of the Prince William Composite Squadron crest emulates a royal coat of arms. Adopting this style pays tribute to the unit's namesake, Prince William, the Duke of Cumberland (1721-1765) and to the county in Virginia named for him which is the unit's home. The depiction of a knight's helmet in the lower sector of the crest reminds us of a heritage of chivalry."

 
"The central feature of the crest is the chevron. Deviding the crest into sectors, it resembles an arrow pointing skyward, and symbolizes the unit's continuing efforts toward betterment. The checkered pattern of the chevron is reminiscent of the checkered flag marking the end of a race for a triumphant competitor. As a competitive spirit is the cornerstone of Prince William's strategy for achievement, this pattern is very significant."

"Three start adorn the upper sector of the crest. These, of course, symbolize the three missions of Civil Air Patrol: Aerospace Education, the Cadet Program, and Emergency Services. The combination of the chevron and the stars captures the essence of the unit's adopted motto: "Ad Astra Per Aspera". Translated from Latin, this means: "To The Stars We Aspire". Our motto indicates the high standards expected of Prince William's members."

"The stars also reflect Prince William's commitment to excellence in all three endeavors. They are patterned after the ancient mariner's compass rose in the hope that we may never lose our way in the arduous journey toward these lofty goals."

The squadron crest was designed by former Squadron Commander, Lt Col B.T. Marking, and was approved for use as a squadron patch by the Virginia Wing uniform committee on May 5, 1989."



Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on April 05, 2007, 04:26:39 PM
I don't know if anybody even values another opinion on this, but...

DOES Civil Air Patrol impliment any standardization on unit patches and insignia?
No. But we DO have rules in place that require several levels of the unit's chain-of-command to approve a design first, and that is good enough to maintain some king of control.

SHOULD Civil Air Patrol impliment a standardization on unit patches and insignia?
No, because it would be to "solve" a problem that doesn't even exsist.

WILL Civil Air Patrol impliment a standardization on unit patches and insignia? Nope. It has already been suggested, requested, and officially proposed by many thoughout the years, including the CAC - all attemps at the National level have been declined.

However...
It might be a good idea for CAP to throw out some VERY SIMPLE recomendations, like every CAP emblem or patch should include a tri-prop, all parts of an emblem or patch should have meaning and purpose, and the emblem or patch should represent the location of the unit and the people that use it. But to start mandating shapes and colors? Blah!

Thanks for your time!
- Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Psicorp on April 05, 2007, 06:34:40 PM
Okay, this is the shield design, but it was approved by Wing prior to creation.  Our squadron was called the "Capital Squadron" prior to being re-named in honor of a member who went on to become a military aviator and was later killed in action.

(http://photos-497.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v71/13/53/907575580/n907575580_238497_8452.jpg)

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on April 05, 2007, 10:18:53 PM
Okay, this is the shield design, but it was approved by Wing prior to creation.  Our squadron was called the "Capital Squadron" prior to being re-named in honor of a member who went on to become a military aviator and was later killed in action.

(http://photos-497.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v71/13/53/907575580/n907575580_238497_8452.jpg)



The Winged capital building looks like the helmet of  teutonic knight. LOL.....

But its a nice looking patch.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on April 05, 2007, 10:27:17 PM
I don't know if anybody even values another opinion on this, but...

DOES Civil Air Patrol impliment any standardization on unit patches and insignia?
No. But we DO have rules in place that require several levels of the unit's chain-of-command to approve a design first, and that is good enough to maintain some king of control.

SHOULD Civil Air Patrol impliment a standardization on unit patches and insignia?
No, because it would be to "solve" a problem that doesn't even exsist.

WILL Civil Air Patrol impliment a standardization on unit patches and insignia? Nope. It has already been suggested, requested, and officially proposed by many thoughout the years, including the CAC - all attemps at the National level have been declined.

However...
It might be a good idea for CAP to throw out some VERY SIMPLE recomendations, like every CAP emblem or patch should include a tri-prop, all parts of an emblem or patch should have meaning and purpose, and the emblem or patch should represent the location of the unit and the people that use it. But to start mandating shapes and colors? Blah!

Thanks for your time!
- Ace


I don't think there is a "problem" per se with patch designs. Its more the opinion of the members here that they patches should conform to the USAF guidelines in shape. Disc for Sq level and Shield for Command level.

I don't think content should be mandated (3 bladed prop). From what we have seen from folks that have submitted examples of their patches, all are unique to their units and have representative colors and symbols in them. If you place requirements, other that "appropriate content" then you stifle the creativity of the units in representing themselves in ways unique to themselves.The patch is worn on a CAP uniform so I don't think it has to indicate CAP or contain trademark symbols of CAP in it. This concept is inline with USAF guidelines for design. If you look at the myriad of USAF patches out there, few say USAF on them (except where required due to level of the unit) or have the "trademarks" of the service(the winged star device).
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on April 06, 2007, 10:07:24 AM
Totally agree, we should not limit the creativity of each unit to design their own patch in a way that properly represents them. I'd probably put shape in there too, and can post some really unique non-traditional ones here if anyone wants to see them.

Our longest standing patches obviously date from our roots as part of the Army Air Corps, and tend to even be similar to each local echelon of that organization.
Although the majority of wing patches are round, there are some shield-shape wing patches: IN, KY, MI, DC, PR, and VT.  CA and IL are a stretch, TN used to have a shield before they changed to version 3 which is rectangle. None are USAF style shields. I'd have to double check, but I think the original Communications patch was the first USAF-type shield used in CAP before being changed in the late-80s. Heck, SWR just made a brand new disk-shape patch... Oops!

If you've ever seen USAF Group or Wing "pizza" patches before, those are almost always round. Even though rarely worn, this breaks the shield/disk rule. I think MER might have done one long ago with all their wing patches on it - wish I had a picture.

The tri-prop pre-dates anything the USAF has as symbols - even the Hap Arnold wings, and was representing us in 1939 prior to the full realization of our organization. Outside of the military, I believe the BS (non-cow type) might require the flure-de-whatever to be on all their insignia. They find some real creative, subtle, and fun ways to work it in. I like the technique of stitching on the field with the same thread color as the background... called ghosting, I believe.

Check this out...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CA/ca295.jpg)
See what's on the oranges (also disguised as hills)? Thanks for the nice, calm, non-cranky discussion - rare on CAP message boards these days.

-Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ColonelJack on April 06, 2007, 10:49:05 AM
Ace ...

Love the patch!  Took me a minute to realize the "SAR" was a searchlight on the ground ... at first I thought it was a UFO.   ;D

Jack
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on April 06, 2007, 05:24:07 PM
While it's a very striking design with a lot of clever details, I do have some heartburn about the Fullerton patch.

I think the biggest problem is the general busyness of the design and the lack of color contrast will make it muddled when viewed at the normal distance one views 3" pocket patches.

This is the current problem with new designs, both in CAP and the military - the tendency to design for the computer screen instead of the BDU patch.  My civilian work unit has gone the "eagle on flag background" path.  This is fine on PowerPoint or as a wall plaque but has real problems when woven into something for wear on the flight suit.

One possible suggestion would be to design a simple patch and then "bling it out" for the t-shirt or the web page.  7.62 Designs (http://www.7point62design.com/index.html) is a good example of "blinging out" Army patches, which tend towards really basic designs.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on April 23, 2007, 09:55:28 AM
Here's Snoopy!

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/FL/fl125.jpg)

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/GA/notmine/ga045.jpg)

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/ND/nd048.jpg)

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/TX/tx313.jpg)

Too fun! I think I have one more somewhere, but couldn't find it.

 -Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BBerry on May 04, 2007, 09:20:14 PM
Thanks for the plug again, Ace!

Our fearless Flyin' Ace met the National Commander this week when "TP" dropped in for a surprise visit to us on our meeting night.  See "National Commander Surprises Ga. Squadron with Visit to Meeting" (http://www.cap.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=display&nodeID=6192&newsID=3029&year=2007&month=5) at CAP News Online.

We presented the General a 'mission-hardened' Snoopy patch (cut in the back room from one of our ground team leader's uniforms!) and our "Don't Make Us Come Looking For You" ground team t-shirts. 

The "Pickle Suits, Jungle Fatigues, and BDUs" phrase in the article was lifted by the CAP News Online editor from the words we supplied to Ace for his website's history of our squadron patch.  See Ace's The History of the Snoopy Patch (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/GA/notmine/ga045.html). 

Joe Congleton, the patch designer and now a disabled Vietnam vet, will be proud to hear about Snoopy's latest exploits. 

"Curse You, Red Baron!..."
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 11, 2007, 03:00:11 PM
Another patch successfully preserved...
IN-069, Col James H Kasler Senior Squadron
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/IN/in069.jpg)
The patch's history: http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/IN/in069.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/IN/in069.html)

Positive comments and discussion about this patch are welcome Watch out for more unique pieces of CAP uniform history as they arrive!

- Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on May 11, 2007, 03:05:29 PM
Very nice
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Hoser on May 11, 2007, 11:37:30 PM
The best has already been taken IMHO. (http://)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on May 12, 2007, 09:18:47 AM
Who exactly are you fighting?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on May 12, 2007, 10:27:14 AM
Who exactly are you fighting?

Themselves? LOL  ;D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on May 12, 2007, 12:58:22 PM
Who exactly are you fighting?

Themselves? LOL  ;D

Reminds me of a Mad Magazine "article":

TITLE "I fought with the 212th Infantry!"

TEXT "I also fought with the 177th Armor, 32nd Engineers and my high school classmates - I couldn't get along with anyone..."
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on May 12, 2007, 02:28:03 PM
Yes, I'm always amazed at the lack of understanding of what a herald should be.

Units that depict missions they don't participate in, skulls, references to "fighting", or aircraft / vehicles / equipment which have never been a part of CAP are generally amusing to me, in the least, but show that
no one, from the unit CC on up the Chain cared enough to have a conversation about it...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 13, 2007, 12:13:25 AM
Units that depict missions they don't participate in, skulls, references to "fighting", or aircraft / vehicles / equipment which have never been a part of CAP are generally amusing to me, in the least, but show that
no one, from the unit CC on up the Chain cared enough to have a conversation about it...

I'm not sure, but looking at the file name for that pic - "VF-143" - It sounds like a Navy unit and not CAP...

[Ace does quick Google image search]

Yup, sure is a USN Squadron - and posted in a thred called "The Best of Squadron Patches" I guess he'd be entitled to that opinion, heh.  Oh well.

- Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on May 13, 2007, 12:19:58 AM
If thats a Navy squadron patch that he was bragging on, then I rescind my comment (though a heads up on who he was bragging on would have been nice). 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: AlphaSigOU on May 13, 2007, 09:06:53 AM
VF-143... the World Famous Pukin' Dogs!  ;D (Yes, that is their nickname.)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 14, 2007, 11:52:21 PM
Another patch successfully preserved...
VA-095, Coastal Composite Squadron
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/VA/va095.jpg)

Positive comments and discussion about this patch are welcome. Watch out for more unique pieces of CAP uniform history as they arrive!

- Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: NIN on May 15, 2007, 08:28:03 AM
Now that is a sweet lookin' patch
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on May 15, 2007, 08:54:16 AM
Looks really cool. Unique to cap and very professional. Accurately reflects the unit.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Mustang on May 23, 2007, 02:08:42 AM
Here's one designed by yours truly.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on May 23, 2007, 09:10:57 AM
Nice job. Would be a bit better if it had the wording in the rockers above and below the disc. Otherwise, really sharp looking patch and lots of detail.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 24, 2007, 11:56:27 AM
Here's one designed by yours truly.

Very nice! I think I had seen a computerized art version of this somewhere on the net, but didn't know that it did get made into a patch. This amount of "depth" is hard to get, but I think it was pulled off very well - especially the banking plane seen from the belly side. Please share with us the manufacturer if you could.

I'd like to purchase a few of these if they are available, and I'll try to PM you from the forum website.

- Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 24, 2007, 12:00:19 PM
A new patch successfully recorded and preserved for posterity...

OR-065, Aurora Composite Squadron - "Fearless Falcons"
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/OR/or065.jpg)

Positive comments and discussion about this patch are welcome. Watch out for more unique pieces of CAP uniform history as they arrive!

- Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on May 24, 2007, 12:38:37 PM
Nice job. Would be a bit better if it had the wording in the rockers above and below the disc. Otherwise, really sharp looking patch and lots of detail.

I was looking into prices of patches and, let me say this, the rockers greatly increase the price.  A circular patch like this one is the best route.

I have often maintained that money used for CAP should best be routed to Operations.  If one wanted to make a unit patch, it should be one as inexpensively as possible.  Dropping some 500 dollars on patches is meshuggah.  That could by radios or even many sets of uniforms for cadets.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on May 24, 2007, 01:48:54 PM
Nice job. Would be a bit better if it had the wording in the rockers above and below the disc. Otherwise, really sharp looking patch and lots of detail.

I was looking into prices of patches and, let me say this, the rockers greatly increase the price.  A circular patch like this one is the best route.

While it's true that, because of the die cut, is can be more expensive to add the rockers -- it's not that much more expensive to have your patch fit in with the expected mould.  In addition, if unit's practiced proper purchasing procedures, they could bid out their patch jobs and probably save them more in the end than adding die cut rockers would add.

Is it cheaper?   Maybe.  But should we always cut corners because we can save a few bucks and it won't hurt anything?   

Not to mention, you're charging for the squadron patch, right?  Not just handing it out like candy?   So what's the excuse to not throw an additional $0.50 onto the cost to members and make a proper patch?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on May 24, 2007, 02:18:24 PM
I just did a custom presentation at my unit on Heraldry for the cadets as we are in need of a new squadron patch. Kudos to alamrcn and his wonderful website for providing fodder for this.  ;)

I printed off the AF Guide to Heraldry for all the cadets and gave them more than enough shield blanks to come up with designs. I'm planning on having each of them talk about their design in a month from now and depending on the results of what comes back, we'll either pick the best one to use or tweak one of the better ones to use. I'll really anxious to see what my cadets come back with.

To prepare for this, I was hoping to solicit from everyone here that has gone through his process to get a compilation of companies that they have used to create their patches so I can submit for bid and get the best price.

Oh, and alamrcn, I'll do my best to make sure you get one of our old patches for your records.


Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Capt M. Sherrod on May 24, 2007, 02:29:56 PM
One of the best patch manufacturer's that I have found around is Squadron Flight Shop at www.sfspatches.com  ---  Great service, great prices.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 24, 2007, 07:41:20 PM
I was looking into prices of patches and, let me say this, the rockers greatly increase the price.  A circular patch like this one is the best route.

While I can't speak for all manufacturers' policies, I can say that none of the three companies I have worked with in the past charge extra based on the shape of the patch. They factor in the size of the patch and the amount of backing material that is being used... patch size determined as HxW/2, so this is where some extra cost might come in if the tabs make the patch shape taller. Modern machines do the cutting (sometimes called hot needling) after all the embroidery is done, and a disk with/without tabs is all the same to the cutting computer as far as workload goes. The loom computers now can count every stitch, so you can pay for exactly what you get.

I'm not one to price shop unless it is something really big. That is, for my own purchases. But where CAP is concerned, funds can be sparse and a patch order can be a VERY big purchase for many units. However, the cheapest is NEVER the best here, unless you don't want to ever wear or wash your uniform!

Some manufacturers may try to nickle and dime you for things, and they are the ones NOT to go with. If you're ordering over 150 pieces and are asked to pay over $2 each... it's time to move on.

- Ace

Oh, Mark... was your presentation with PowerPoint? If so, I'd love to see it! Maybe even add it to the Document Library on the CAP Patches website. I'm really looking forward to see what the squadron comes up with for a design -- as well as receiving a copy of the final product!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Fifinella on May 25, 2007, 01:28:30 AM
http://patches4less.com/ (http://patches4less.com/)  100 patches, with arc and rocker, less than $2.50 a patch.  Great product, great service, patches in about a week and a half.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: mdickinson on May 26, 2007, 06:15:45 PM
Here are three patches I used to wear in the '90s...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: mikeylikey on May 26, 2007, 07:54:44 PM
^^  Second patch down.  THATS THE REASON WE ARE NOW THE U.S. CAP!!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on May 26, 2007, 08:53:19 PM
I haven't run into anyone who charges extra for rockers, but extra or not, that's the proper shape.

What has determined the cost more so with the vendors we've used is the number of colors, complexity of the image, and whether you choose a 100% stitched patch versus using a cloth for the background color (go with 100% stitched, it looks way better).

As to the cost, its going to be an uphill climb to find anything decent looking less than $3-3.50 each, and most I've seen go into the $5 range easily when you spread out the shipping.  One unit here uses retro-reflective thread (for safety), which brings the cost to over $9 (and ruins every photo with a flash).

The Chinese vendors seem to have the best quality, and most vendors state-side will send you work to them.  It also makes a difference as to whether they have a patch machine and over-stitch the edge, or make them on an embroidery machine (#1 is much better).

Since most members won't buy more than a handful in their whole career, spend the extra bucks and make a nice looking patch - I hate it when I see members who cheaped on the manufacturing or cut corners on the design and they are walking around with something that looks like their mom made it on their home Singer.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on May 27, 2007, 10:43:28 AM
I haven't run into anyone who charges extra for rockers, but extra or not, that's the proper shape.

What has determined the cost more so with the vendors we've used is the number of colors, complexity of the image, and whether you choose a 100% stitched patch versus using a cloth for the background color (go with 100% stitched, it looks way better).

As to the cost, its going to be an uphill climb to find anything decent looking less than $3-3.50 each, and most I've seen go into the $5 range easily when you spread out the shipping.  One unit here uses retro-reflective thread (for safety), which brings the cost to over $9 (and ruins every photo with a flash).

The Chinese vendors seem to have the best quality, and most vendors state-side will send you work to them.  It also makes a difference as to whether they have a patch machine and over-stitch the edge, or make them on an embroidery machine (#1 is much better).

Since most members won't buy more than a handful in their whole career, spend the extra bucks and make a nice looking patch - I hate it when I see members who cheaped on the manufacturing or cut corners on the design and they are walking around with something that looks like their mom made it on their home Singer.

The proper term you are referring to is "fully embroidered" for the best quality and appearance
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on May 28, 2007, 12:12:34 AM
This is what has been proposed...

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p114/MajorCarrales/seal2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ColonelJack on May 28, 2007, 07:56:15 AM
This is what has been proposed...

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p114/MajorCarrales/seal2.jpg)

Bull.   ;D

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

Jack
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Psicorp on May 28, 2007, 11:52:18 AM
This is what has been proposed...

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p114/MajorCarrales/seal2.jpg)

Bull.   ;D

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

Jack

You might consider moooving on to the next proposal  :D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ColonelJack on May 28, 2007, 12:17:37 PM
This is what has been proposed...

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p114/MajorCarrales/seal2.jpg)

Bull.   ;D

(Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

Jack

You might consider moooving on to the next proposal  :D

Oh, you're going to try and milk this for all you can get, eh?  I have a real beef with that.

Jack
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on May 28, 2007, 04:09:08 PM
Hmmm...a flying bull....There is some fun to be had with this one!!!

We all know there is a lot of bull flying around in CAP. Is that what the patch is indicating?? HAHAHA

Who's gonna take the bull by the horns and fix things at NHQ??

 ;D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on May 28, 2007, 04:09:28 PM
My suggestion would be to put BRAHMA FLIGHT together in one scroll on the bottom.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on May 28, 2007, 04:11:25 PM
My suggestion would be to put BRAHMA FLIGHT together in one scroll on the bottom.

Here's an idea for the motto on the patch...."We're full of it"
 :o
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on May 28, 2007, 11:25:41 PM
My suggestion would be to put BRAHMA FLIGHT together in one scroll on the bottom.

Here's an idea for the motto on the patch...."We're full of it"
 :o

How about "Don't mess with us...we're sacred cows!"
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on May 29, 2007, 11:15:35 AM
My suggestion would be to put BRAHMA FLIGHT together in one scroll on the bottom.

Here's an idea for the motto on the patch...."We're full of it"
 :o

How about "Don't mess with us...we're sacred cows!"

"Moove out of our way"
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on May 29, 2007, 11:18:28 AM
My suggestion would be to put BRAHMA FLIGHT together in one scroll on the bottom.

I theory, we would eventually become a squadron.  I am holding off on that.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 29, 2007, 11:49:26 AM
The somewhat indistinguishable character on the former Minnesota Wing patch was affectionatly referred to as...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MN/mnwg1b.jpg)
The Samouri Cow!

And oops, Maj Nelson "Lee" Ragan referred to it in his 1986 insignia catalog as a Minnesota Viking. Actually, it is a Gremlin that was characterized by Walt Disney. The current shoulder patch perfected the original concept.

There is a WWII CAP Sub Chaser patch with a winged-bull on it. I can come up with a scan of the artwork later, if someone here doesn't have one at the ready now.

-Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: mikeylikey on May 29, 2007, 01:22:23 PM
^^  Why did you guys up there change that wing patch??
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eagle400 on May 29, 2007, 04:33:32 PM
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MN/mnwg1b.jpg)

WOAH!!!  The "Samurai  Cow" on the Minnesota Wing patch looks reeeallly creepy!  It reminds me of a character I saw on a panel at the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem.  Does anyone know what I'm talking about?  I wasn't able to upload a picture of it, unfortunately.     

It's been said that if you look at this panel, and find something evil in it, then you are a Christian. 

Could it be that the "Samurai Cow" and the character in the Panel at the Dome of the Rock are the same character?  I'll leave you to figure out what the character resembles.     
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on June 05, 2007, 11:58:37 AM
^^  Why did you guys up there change that wing patch??

Because it was wrong.... er, incorrect. No one knows for sure why the Gremlin's image was so distorted from the original artwork. The easiest blame falls on:
1) whomever submitted their own revision of Disney's original artwork for the first patch embroidery, or most likely...
2) the first production of patches was made of such low quality, and every reorder after just continued to use a copy of the last batch. See, you should never go with the lowest bidder!

Here's the oldest MN Wing patch I have...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MN/mnwg1a.jpg)
You can see the original Disney character, AND how the later used distorted version came about.

It is known, that copies of the patch were made and worn prior to National HQ's authorization of the patch in 1952. The character's design actually dates back almost 10 years (1943) earlier from an abandoned Walt Disney Pictures project entitled "The Gremlins" - only a supporting children's book and some dolls were put out, the two movie scripts were scrapped.

(http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/images/upload/scattered-remlins-pointing.jpg)(http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/images/upload/scattered-remlins-pipe.jpg)

It's unknown when Minnesota Wing got the nod to use the character, but probably not long after WWII ended in 1945. Disney made hundreds of Military insignia, and several Civil Air Patrol emblems for all levels of the organization. The WASP (Women Airforce Service Pilots) logo using a female gremlin (called a fifinella) was from the same story.

I plan on [cough]procrastination[/cough] putting together a detailed summery of the patch's history on the CAP Patches website soon.

- Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on June 05, 2007, 12:01:57 PM
WOAH!!!  The "Samurai  Cow" on the Minnesota Wing patch looks reeeallly creepy!  It reminds me of a character I saw on a panel at the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem.  Does anyone know what I'm talking about?  I wasn't able to upload a picture of it, unfortunately.   It's been said that if you look at this panel, and find something evil in it, then you are a Christian.  Could it be that the "Samurai Cow" and the character in the Panel at the Dome of the Rock are the same character?  I'll leave you to figure out what the character resembles.

PLEASE send me a link to a pic of that! I about Googled myself silly trying to find one...

-Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on June 05, 2007, 12:04:09 PM
^^  Why did you guys up there change that wing patch??

Because it was wrong.... er, incorrect. No one knows for sure why the Gremlin's image was so distorted from the original artwork. The easiest blame falls on:
1) whomever submitted their own revision of Disney's original artwork for the first patch embroidery, or most likely...
2) the first production of patches was made of such low quality, and every reorder after just continued to use a copy of the last batch. See, you should never go with the lowest bidder!

Here's the oldest MN Wing patch I have...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MN/mnwg1a.jpg)
You can see the original Disney character, AND how the later used distorted version came about.

It is known, that copies of the patch were made and worn prior to National HQ's authorization of the patch in 1952. The character's design actually dates back almost 10 years (1943) and an abandoned Walt Disney Pictures project entitled "The Gremlins" - only a supporting children's book and some dolls were put out, the two movie scripts were scrapped.

(http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/images/upload/scattered-remlins-pointing.jpg)(http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/images/upload/scattered-remlins-pipe.jpg)

It's unknown when Minnesota Wing got the nod to use the character, but probably not long after WWII ended in 1945. Disney made hundreds of Military insignia, and several Civil Air Patrol emblems for all levels of the organization. The WASP (Women Airforce Service Pilots) logo using a female gremlin (called a fifinella) was from the same story.

I plan on [cough]procrastination[/cough] putting together a detailed summery of the patch's history on the CAP Patches website soon.

- Ace

The character on the patch looks like an angry moth. LOL
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on June 05, 2007, 12:18:03 PM
The character on the patch looks like an angry moth. LOL

THAT is funny!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: NIN on June 05, 2007, 07:01:23 PM
2) the first production of patches was made of such low quality, and every reorder after just continued to use a copy of the last batch. See, you should never go with the lowest bidder!

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MI/mi038b.jpg)

This is my old squadron patch. That's supposed to be an eagle (the bird) and an Eagle (the F-15).  Instead it looks like a crappy vulture and an F-14 with a hydraulic failure.

An example of the loss of the original artwork and subsequent runs being made from the previous run's patch..

Gak!



Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on June 05, 2007, 09:49:44 PM
I like Mothra!...Oh rook....godzirra!!!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eagle400 on June 05, 2007, 10:38:47 PM
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MN/mnwg1a.jpg)

Looks like one of the goomba characters from the Super Mario Bros game. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Fifinella on June 05, 2007, 11:56:43 PM
The WASP (Women Airforce Service Pilots) logo using a female gremlin (called a fifinella) was from the same story.
Ahem...that was a HUGE hint...guess everyone's asleep out there...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SarDragon on June 06, 2007, 04:32:25 AM
The WASP (Women Airforce Service Pilots) logo using a female gremlin (called a fifinella) was from the same story.
Ahem...that was a HUGE hint...guess everyone's asleep out there...

Wasn't asleep. This is just my first opportunity to mention it. I do believe, though, that you have mentioned your gender in one or more prior posts.

Ah, yes:
Capt J*** L*******, CAP
USAFA Class of 1989
USAFA staff, '92-'95
USAF veteran
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on June 06, 2007, 10:09:34 AM
2) the first production of patches was made of such low quality, and every reorder after just continued to use a copy of the last batch. See, you should never go with the lowest bidder!
This is my old squadron patch. That's supposed to be an eagle (the bird) and an Eagle (the F-15).  Instead it looks like a crappy vulture and an F-14 with a hydraulic failure.

An example of the loss of the original artwork and subsequent runs being made from the previous run's patch..

Gak!

NIN; funny you bring up our old unit patch...I was talking in PM with Ace about it and was able to get the patch history via the Alumni group.

This is the e-mail I had gotten describing it:

Quote
From: John DiGiantomasso [mailto:JohnD@xxxxxx.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 1:19 AM
To: xxxxxx@comcast.net; xxxxxxxx@hotmail.com
Subject: South Macomb 3-2 Patch History

Greetings...

John DiGiantomasso here.  And Tim Vander Molen is correct. I designed the
South Macomb 3-2 patch.   (I don't have Tim's e-mail; please forward this to
him.)

At the time I did the patch, 1977 or 1978, South Macomb was a powerhouse
Cadet Squadron.  We had just received our third straight Unit Citation award
and had been named the National Squadron of Distinction, beating out two
other squadrons in our same Group who came in 2nd and 3rd place nationally.
At the time it was the first time that the top three squadrons nationally
were in the same wing, let alone the same group.

As such, we were somewhat considered rivals and were treated as outcasts
(not too bad, more friendly than anything) but we didn't have a squadron
patch.  So I designed one with the front view of an F4U Corsair on it and
the text "BLACK SHEEP" on the patch.  I painted one and put it on the
plexiglass of the squadron's vending machine.  The TV Show "Black Sheep
Squadron" was very popular at the time.  Wing or Group Headquarters (I don't
know which) said "We don't like the idea of a Squadron Patch with a Navy
Plane on it.  Why not make one with an Air Force plane?"

About that time I was looking at a magazine and there was a
McDonnell-Douglas advertisement with a picture of the brand-new F-15 Eagle
in front of the jet more or less as you see it on the patch.  I took that
image, reversed it left to right, and added a CAP triangle and fit it to the
patch shape and now I had an Air Force plane on our squadron patch.  We had
a contest of submissions and my design won in the balloting.  That patch was
approved by headquarters and somebody had them made up as the official
Squadron 3-2 Patch.

Ironically, 30 years later I am now the Deputy Commander for Cadets at a
squadron in California whose nickname is the "SKYHAWKS" - a Navy Plane...

I hope that helps.

-- John D. --

Even as a cadet I never knew the history... so that was a fun bit of information to learn.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Psicorp on June 06, 2007, 10:24:18 AM
Interesting note: there was an Air Force squadron at Holloman AFB, NM called the "Black Sheep Squadron" which flew F-15s.    I believe they're an F-117 squadron now.

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on June 06, 2007, 02:43:25 PM
NIN; funny you bring up our old unit patch...I was talking in PM with Ace about it and was able to get the patch history via the Alumni group.
Even as a cadet I never knew the history... so that was a fun bit of information to learn.

I've still got to get the history up on the web - been way behind on my authoring with a new baby in the hizzle... but it'll get there! Maybe this weekend, who knows.

Darrin, I might have gotten my South Macomb patches from you - I couldn't remember, but your Vulture/F-14 comment is something I remember... unless everyone in the squadron had the same idea. This would have been 10 or more years ago that I obtained them.

-Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Fifinella on June 06, 2007, 06:31:00 PM
The WASP (Women Airforce Service Pilots) logo using a female gremlin (called a fifinella) was from the same story.
Ahem...that was a HUGE hint...guess everyone's asleep out there...
Wasn't asleep. This is just my first opportunity to mention it.
Well, I actually meant the fifinella post answered the "why did you pick that user name" question in a different, earlier thread.  But thanks for noticing.  :-*
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SarDragon on June 06, 2007, 08:00:06 PM
OK, half asleep. Musta missed the other post.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RogueLeader on June 07, 2007, 09:04:39 PM
There is a unit in Iowa that has the VMF-214 Patch in their Squadron Patch.  There was a 214 member that gave NCR-IA-041 permission to use it.  So it would have already been used.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: AlphaSigOU on June 07, 2007, 11:28:51 PM
There is a unit in Iowa that has the VMF-214 Patch in their Squadron Patch.  There was a 214 member that gave NCR-IA-041 permission to use it.  So it would have already been used.

Ditto with Mesquite (Texas) Black Sheep Composite Sqdn (SWR-TX-214). I believe one of the original members was one of Pappy's Black Sheep.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on June 08, 2007, 12:27:58 PM
Ditto with Mesquite (Texas) Black Sheep Composite Sqdn (SWR-TX-214). I believe one of the original members was one of Pappy's Black Sheep.

Here is their patch...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/TX/tx214.jpg)

And another from Colorado Wing...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CO/co162.jpg)

And Arizona Wing...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/AZ/az075a.jpg)

And California Wing...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CA/ca371.jpg)
I actually have the history for this patch -
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CA/ca371.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CA/ca371.html)

There are several "Black Sheep" Squadrons in CAP - popular TV show, heh! Actually, a old member of my first unit said they used to have meetings on Wednesday nights (or was it Monday), but changed to Thursdays so as not to miss the show! They still meet on Thursday nights to this day.

- Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on August 18, 2007, 01:15:43 AM
Our subhunters used to use this...we may have to bring it back in a modern form!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: isuhawkeye on August 18, 2007, 04:44:21 AM
The Iowa "Black Sheep" were named after the CAP squadron worked the crash in which a member of that particular military squadron was killed.  the squadron is named in honor of that Aviator
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SeattleSarge on August 22, 2007, 06:40:07 PM
Seattle Composite Squadron Emblem...

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z281/kb7jcp/cap-seattle-patch.jpg)

I call this our "Frasier" patch as the skyline (Space Needle) looks like the opening graphic in the TV show...

-SeattleSarge
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on August 22, 2007, 10:26:36 PM
Seattle Composite Squadron Emblem...

(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z281/kb7jcp/cap-seattle-patch.jpg)

I call this our "Frasier" patch as the skyline (Space Needle) looks like the opening graphic in the TV show...

-SeattleSarge

I like it - but you do understand that that's a major "no no" under the guidance on the use of the "origami eagle," don't you?

http://www.af.mil/library/symbol/displaying.asp (http://www.af.mil/library/symbol/displaying.asp)

Quote
Changing the size of the symbol, as necessary, is encouraged and appropriate however, other manipulations of the symbol are not. Examples of manipulations include, but are not limited to:

Stretching/distorting the signature, logotype or symbol
Adding or subtracting anything from the symbol
Cradling anything inside the symbol not approved/registered with Air Force Historical Research Agency
Drawing or portraying objects coming through or protruding from the symbol
Using unapproved colors
Adding shadows or special effects
Changing the symbol's texture
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: CAPLAW on August 23, 2007, 12:40:39 AM
GROUP 5 Florida Wing :)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: floridacyclist on August 23, 2007, 10:53:43 AM
Here's the final version...

(http://tallahasseecap.org/sqseal.gif)

Comments? If I understand them, this should be in accordance with established standards, but parts of that confused me a little.

Is there a process to registering a squadron seal for historical archival etc? I noticed it appeared on the wing website.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: jimmydeanno on August 23, 2007, 11:31:30 AM
^Hey...that's slick!  I like the wing busting out of the circle.  I am always a little leary of white on the patches though...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SeattleSarge on August 23, 2007, 01:25:03 PM

I like it - but you do understand that that's a major "no no" under the guidance on the use of the "origami eagle," don't you?

I figured there might be an issue with that, but the decision is way above my pay grade...

-SeattleSarge
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on August 23, 2007, 02:28:31 PM
Here's the final version...

(http://tallahasseecap.org/sqseal.gif)

Comments? If I understand them, this should be in accordance with established standards, but parts of that confused me a little.


I'm afraid that design is much more suited for a computer graphic than the world of embroidered patches.

I would suggest shrinking it down to patch size (around 3" high) and looking at it from a distance from 5 to 8 feet.  You will find the detail and the similar colors will blend into an indistinct patch.

I would also suggest ditching the sqdn number.  That will just be annoying code to the average viewer.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: LtCol White on August 23, 2007, 03:20:52 PM
Here's the final version...

(http://tallahasseecap.org/sqseal.gif)

Comments? If I understand them, this should be in accordance with established standards, but parts of that confused me a little.


I'm afraid that design is much more suited for a computer graphic than the world of embroidered patches.

I would suggest shrinking it down to patch size (around 3" high) and looking at it from a distance from 5 to 8 feet.  You will find the detail and the similar colors will blend into an indistinct patch.

I would also suggest ditching the sqdn number.  That will just be annoying code to the average viewer.

Looks great. Having a lot of experience with designing patches, I have to agree that you will encounter problems when making it into a patch. You will lose a lot of the small detail you see now.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Stonewall on August 23, 2007, 03:51:04 PM
Here's an unofficial "squadron patch" for ya.  Yep, you guessed it, this is from my cadet daze when we all wanted to emulate Rangers. 

It is modeled after the old school 1st Ranger BN scroll.  We made a handful of these for our unofficial jungle fatigues with subdued CAP tapes and insignia.  NO, we never ever wore them other than when we were "playing ranger" away from CAP.  This patch is about 18 years old.

(http://captalk.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=572.0;attach=929)

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Stonewall on August 23, 2007, 05:13:10 PM
Mount Vernon Composite (MER-DC-045) and Fairfax Composite Squadrons (MER-DC-053).

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: floridacyclist on August 23, 2007, 08:28:09 PM

Looks great. Having a lot of experience with designing patches, I have to agree that you will encounter problems when making it into a patch. You will lose a lot of the small detail you see now.

I can handle losing some of the detail...I need to find a decent digitizing program that I can figure out how to use so I can see what it looks like as a patch
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on August 27, 2007, 11:14:58 AM
As long as whomever places the order doesn't "cheep out" with the lowest bidder, I've seen more complex patches come out just fine. The main problem area will be on the far right, where the gray parts will only be a few stiches tall.

I'd suggest giving them separate artwork - or even a photograph of the skyline - and let the manufacturer's layout people put together a "proof" for you. They will do it based on your concept, but better suited to what their loom is capable of. This will tell you if you need to look for someone else with better technology to make it or not.

Perhaps the removal, or relocation of the charter number, will give more room to play with the details. The size that appears above is good - a 3" diameter disk is pretty standard, but don't make it 3" tall including the tabs.

HEY, KIRT!  Can I use those three images on my website? I'll certainly will acknowledge your contribution... or deny it if you prefer.

-Ace

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Stonewall on August 27, 2007, 11:27:58 AM
HEY, KIRT!  Can I use those three images on my website? I'll certainly will acknowledge your contribution... or deny it if you prefer.

Yep, use'em up.  Let me know if you need more info on them.  Also, CAPLAW started a thread about the FLWG patch in the "Marketplace" where I posted a picture of a subdued FLWG patch.  Use that as well.  A  bit of "unofficial" history on the subdued patches.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on August 27, 2007, 11:42:29 AM
Yes, please. I'll document as much info as I can get on each piece. If you've been around the CAP Patches website at all, you'll see anything from a small notation as to the designer or authorization date to a "HISTORY" link that leads to a separate page with full write-ups on a patch.

Related, look at the bottom submissions of the Connecticut Wing patch page...
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CT/

Drop me an e-mail and I'll publish whatever you can provide. I'll check out the Marketplace also for the Florida sudued patch.

-Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on August 27, 2007, 11:44:01 AM
Should the Tallahassee patch have the CAP overseas insignia within it?  Seems a little odd.  Looks great, but I agree would probably not work as an actual patch. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on August 27, 2007, 11:59:53 AM
Should the Tallahassee patch have the CAP overseas insignia within it?  Seems a little odd.  Looks great, but I agree would probably not work as an actual patch. 

I believe that's the WW2 patch, which doesn't have the rocker.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on August 27, 2007, 12:18:53 PM
Should the Tallahassee patch have the CAP overseas insignia within it?

It is my opinion, as well as several HO's greater than I, that ALL Civil Air Patrol patches should have this. Sure, it is NOW part of the overseas cadet unit shoulder patch... but it was FIRST the only patch all of us wore. Insignia wise, it is the conception of our organization.

Maybe go without the U.S. though.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: floridacyclist on August 27, 2007, 01:08:38 PM
As long as whomever places the order doesn't "cheep out" with the lowest bidder, I've seen more complex patches come out just fine. The main problem area will be on the far right, where the gray parts will only be a few stiches tall.
That's fine..those aren't specific details, just impressionistic shadows and dark areas, perhaps buildings. You can't really see what they are in the patch, but you can't see them in the photo either
Quote
I'd suggest giving them separate artwork - or even a photograph of the skyline - and let the manufacturer's layout people put together a "proof" for you. They will do it based on your concept, but better suited to what their loom is capable of. This will tell you if you need to look for someone else with better technology to make it or not.
That might be a thought. I have all of the source documents, from the photograph of the skyline and capitol building to the screenshot from MS Flightsim and all steps in between including the initial conversion to vector format.
Quote
Perhaps the removal, or relocation of the charter number, will give more room to play with the details. The size that appears above is good - a 3" diameter disk is pretty standard, but don't make it 3" tall including the tabs.
I've heard yay and nay on the charter number. Even if it goes, I probably won't put anything in it's place...just solid green, or maybe more impressionistic green and gray "clutter"...shadows and such. We were figuring a 3" disk with 1/2" rockers. Come to think of it, taking out the numbers might bring the cost down too. We'll see as the design has already been approved as far as I know..not sure how many "improvements" we can make to it once that has happened, but I'm sure there is a process for it.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on August 28, 2007, 10:37:07 AM
...the screenshot from MS Flightsim...

I KNEW IT!  I wasn't going to say anything though, heheheh...

Send whatever you have for art in with the order - it can only help them when they do the final layout before production. I've seen the preverbial "bar napkin" art sent in to the manufacturer before! I think you'll be fine with what they come up with if you point out the specific buildings that should be identifiable.

More on the charter number...
Most emblem heraldry would say leave text out of the field on put it on the scrolls, tabs, etc. However, I've put numbers or letters in two of the patches I've designed. I have to agree with the "random code" comment though - the region/wing/squadron IDs are a little overwhelming. Perhaps a verbal authorization to reduce to just the unit number?

Can't wait to see the final product, sign me up for 3-4 "pre-sale" copies if you can!

-Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: dwb on August 28, 2007, 11:41:18 AM
We have a pretty nice squadron patch, I think.  Here is the current design:

(http://syracusecap.org/images/patch.jpg)

It looks okay on a patch.  We've run out of patches at the squadron, and we've since been re-designated as a Cadet squadron, so I've been working on a little tweak for it.

(http://syracusecap.org/files/new135patch.jpg)

I still have to incorporate the snake, but I'm having trouble figuring out how to draw a good one in the vector graphics program I'm using.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: afgeo4 on August 28, 2007, 12:16:35 PM
Dan, why not just use the same patch and change the text?

By the way, who did have make the patches for the squadron? I'm about to start up patches for my current unit and I need someone who's good at making them. I still have my Syracuse Comp Sq patch (not giving it back either).
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: dwb on August 28, 2007, 12:26:08 PM
Dan, why not just use the same patch and change the text?

Well, I had a couple beefs with the current design.  Some of the detail (particularly of the snake) gets lost in the embroidery, so I wanted a cleaner design.  Also, the rocker panels aren't congruent with the heraldry guidelines.

Most importantly, I wanted a higher quality vector graphics version of the patch, so we could resize it as needed for print, letterhead, web site graphics, etc.

By the way, who did have make the patches for the squadron?

We used The Hock Shop for our patches... he wasn't the cheapest price, but I think the quality was good, and the turnaround time was fast, and as usual, the customer service was awesome.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: floridacyclist on August 28, 2007, 01:33:58 PM
Send whatever you have for art in with the order - it can only help them when they do the final layout before production. I've seen the preverbial "bar napkin" art sent in to the manufacturer before! I think you'll be fine with what they come up with if you point out the specific buildings that should be identifiable.

About the only building that really matters is the capitol itself and the domes on either side - very phallic if you look at it from the East..which is how most folks driving in will first see it, at least in the days before I-10. I can't imagine the architects not realizing this.

I wonder if it's possible to sell some of these off to collectors to help finance it for the members?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Flying Pig on August 28, 2007, 02:46:57 PM
Sq. 45 March Air Force Base, Ca.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on August 28, 2007, 03:25:38 PM
I wonder if it's possible to sell some of these off to collectors to help finance it for the members?

When I contact units to purchase a couple of their patches, I suggest that I would gladly pay a dollar or two more per patch than what they charge squadron members - kinda help them out a bit I guess.

There aren't a lot of us CAP collectors out there, but enough to maybe get rid of a dozen or so.

SNAKES, WHY DID IT HAVE TO BE SNAKES!!!
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/AZ/az075b.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CA/ca140.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CA/cacsts.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/IA/ia088.jpg)
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/OH/oh278.jpg)

Sadly, I never was able to preserve a copy of the Syracuse Squadron patch. Never even saw the actual patch, just the computerized art as above on their website. Sounds like they are all gone now, but hopefully I'll fall on an old one someday as well as one of the new ones when they get made.

-Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: dwb on August 28, 2007, 03:39:38 PM
Ace, I didn't know you were collecting.  I have one of the first-run patches sitting in my desk right here at work (not sure why), and I probably have an extra one at home.

Do you want me to send you one?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on August 28, 2007, 03:58:05 PM
Do you want me to send you one?

OH!  OH!  OH!  YES PLEASE!

E-mail me and I'll hook you up with my address and compensation:
alamrcn@hotmail.com

Thank you VERY much!
-Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: KingLemur on October 25, 2007, 12:28:15 PM
Orlando Composite Squadron (SER-FL-242)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Walkman on October 25, 2007, 05:17:00 PM
^ Good stuff!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ♠SARKID♠ on October 31, 2007, 03:32:35 AM
What does vires for fidelitas mean?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: jimmydeanno on October 31, 2007, 08:16:23 AM
I think it means strength for loyalty or something along those lines...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: KingLemur on October 31, 2007, 09:26:45 AM
vires per fidelitas = strength through loyalty
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ♠SARKID♠ on October 31, 2007, 03:36:21 PM
^
Good motto.  Google search said it was "Shiny Novels"  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on November 01, 2007, 12:58:13 PM
Take a swing at this motto...

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MN/mn104xl.jpg)

-Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on November 01, 2007, 01:10:34 PM
Always well tempered?   

Always good times?  ???
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: KingLemur on November 01, 2007, 01:27:45 PM
always a good time?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on November 02, 2007, 03:39:01 PM
always a good time?

You got it exactly! It's definately how that squadron approaches everything they do... Do it well, and have fun doing it! Definately not the stick-in-the-mud attitude that you have to be a serious jerk all the time inorder to be a good, successful, professional leader. Etc. Etc.

This isn't an actual "for wear" patch. It was a commemorative patch made for the unit's 40th Anniversary. "XL" is the Roman numeral 40, as well as "Excel" in the sports world. The Red Ruby is the 40th Anniversary precious gem stone.

There were only 50 of these made, and there are just a few of them left if anyone would like to purchase one... $10 is the heavy price tag unfortunately, but hey, it's a pretty cool piece!

-Ace

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: addo1 on November 25, 2007, 06:27:57 PM
  Here is the Lakeshore Composite Squadron patch:
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on November 25, 2007, 07:06:07 PM
Not sure I would say that having "USAF" on there is appropriate. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: addo1 on November 25, 2007, 11:11:46 PM
  Hey, I did not make it. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: AlphaSigOU on November 25, 2007, 11:30:05 PM
  Hey, I did not make it. 

Don't sweat it... CAP squadron emblems generally do not follow USAF heraldry rules, unless a wing or region policy letter dictates it. Units at squadron level or below sport their emblem on a disc; units at group level or higher use a shield. I wouldn't sweat it too much - even my own squadron's emblem doesn't meet current USAF heraldry standards.

While we are the U.S. Air Force Auxiliary when participating in AF-assigned missions, it's generally frowned upon to use the initials 'USAF' on a CAP squadron emblem, which would imply that it is a RealAirForce® squadron. Likewise, distinctive items on the USAF seal  (such as the wing and thunderbolt emblem) are a no-no. The new AF emblem also has strict usage guidelines; I remember when I submitted the design for the Group III emblem the group commander at the time had to get the OK from the commander of HQ CAP-USAF to use it.

I would strongly recommend removing the 'USAF' initials the next time a batch of patches are made.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on November 26, 2007, 02:31:35 AM
Now, now Chuck, that would mean that you may want to take the USAF symbol you and Arthur put on this little patch...

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/TX/tx030.jpg)

It may be that permission was asked and received, however, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BigMojo on December 06, 2007, 12:41:12 PM
I'll add mine up...

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/badger1030/patch.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on December 15, 2007, 01:17:05 AM
With regards to the design itself, Powerpoint is not a graphic design tool, Photoshop, the GIMP, or similiar are. 
More like Illustrator or FreeHand. Photoshop is a raster-image tool. Unit insignias should be executed in a scalable vector file.

Another example are the various CAP unit insignias which feature fighter aircraft, weapons, cards, or whatever.  Why, because they LOOK COOL! Some are for units with an affliation to a fighter base or similiar, so you can see where it comes from, but these are not appropriate to our mission.
Any reference to games of chance, to specific types of aircraft or the re-use of another unit's insignia, or parts thereof, or that of a superior unit, are not allowed under Air Force guidelines.

That means all the units that use the triangle-and-propeller are in violation of the USAF standard, but it also nixes maps of geographic areas, flags or parts of flags....

You have to be a little ambiguous or "speak" metaphorically through a unit emblem.

EDIT: I like the Louisiana Wing headquarters squadron patch, but according to AF guidelines, it should be the wing shield with the HQ SQ designation in the scroll. Maybe if someone whips out the AFI, I'll be corrected, but I believe that's correct. Maybe it's a good time to change the wing emblem to match!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SarDragon on December 15, 2007, 02:15:28 AM
More (http://www.af.mil/library/symbol/) on the Air Force Symbol (http://www.af.mil/library/symbol/images/symbolopt2.jpg).
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on December 16, 2007, 03:08:37 PM
I like the Louisiana Wing headquarters squadron patch, but according to AF guidelines, it should be the wing shield with the HQ SQ designation in the scroll. Maybe if someone whips out the AFI, I'll be corrected, but I believe that's correct. Maybe it's a good time to change the wing emblem to match!

Here that is...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/LA/la001.jpg)
...and its history: http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/LA/la001.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/LA/la001.html)

-Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: jrsvf on December 26, 2007, 01:29:49 AM
Here are two patches that I designed.  One is for the squadron I command (GA808) and the other is for GA Wing Group IV. Let me know what you think
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: CadetProgramGuy on December 26, 2007, 01:32:34 AM
Can you provide the heritage of the patches please?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on December 26, 2007, 01:38:02 AM
(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p114/MajorCarrales/CC-CAP-new-Patch.jpg)

This will be the new Corpus Christi Comp Patch for 2008.  It is based on out WWII Coastal Patrol Squadron moniker.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on December 26, 2007, 02:08:44 AM
This will be the new Corpus Christi Comp Patch for 2008.  It is based on out WWII Coastal Patrol Squadron moniker.

I love the throw-back design!

Any particular reason the rockers aren't cut out? 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on December 26, 2007, 02:25:51 AM
This will be the new Corpus Christi Comp Patch for 2008.  It is based on out WWII Coastal Patrol Squadron moniker.

I love the throw-back design!

Any particular reason the rockers aren't cut out? 

The new design was based on a WWII Coastal Patrol design from these photos at the Library of Congress...

(http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p114/MajorCarrales/8d39650r.jpg)

This way reduced the cost of the patch, plus, it would not render properly any smaller.   Its irregular shape precludes it from fitting properly in a Modern USAF Style patch.

It is "pure CAP," based on local history at the dawn of the organization. 

I expect them to be ready in two months.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on December 26, 2007, 02:37:50 AM
The new design was based on a WWII Coastal Patrol design from these photos at the Library of Congress...

Yep, I think the retro and historically-significant design is awesome!

This way reduced the cost of the patch

I've not yet met a vendor who indicated that irregular size would significantly drive up the cost.  Almost always, cost is a factor of thread/stitch count and the complexity of the design to be stitched.  Plus, there are dozens of companies out there who regularly make patches for military units - something they commonly do.

, plus, it would not render properly any smaller.   Its irregular shape precludes it from fitting properly in a Modern USAF Style patch.

I don't quite get how cutting out the rockers would shrink the design any, or how your current design just precludes you from removing the as-is dead space there anyways?  I'm confused.  Take a look at the 10-second-redo I did in Photoshop attached.


I expect them to be ready in two months.

Great luck!  Our squadron hopes to have patches finalized and made by April.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on December 26, 2007, 02:45:59 AM
Uh...I will suggest the design, however, I cannot take one of the most significant "member driven" morale building activities of 2007 and seemingly  "impose my WILL as a unit commander to change it."  Sort of defeats the purpose.

I'll swap you out one if you want to.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on December 26, 2007, 02:51:55 AM
I'll swap you out one if you want to.

Cool!    I'll keep the board posted when I can finally share the design for ours.  :)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: CadetProgramGuy on December 26, 2007, 03:13:26 AM
In teh design phase of your patches, is there somewhere on the 'net you can go to get templates of the patches?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: jimmydeanno on December 26, 2007, 08:58:38 AM
^Go here.

http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/creation.html

about half-way down the page are "templates," you can click them and save them.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: CadetProgramGuy on December 27, 2007, 12:48:55 AM
^Go here.

http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/creation.html

about half-way down the page are "templates," you can click them and save them.
Exactly what I was looking for!!

Thanks!!  And they say CAPTalk doesn't do anything good..........

:)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on December 27, 2007, 12:58:50 AM

Thanks!!  And they say CAPTalk doesn't do anything good..........

:)

Who says this?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: CadetProgramGuy on December 27, 2007, 06:12:06 AM

Thanks!!  And they say CAPTalk doesn't do anything good..........

:)

Who says this?

Making a joke.......
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: jimmydeanno on December 27, 2007, 09:22:27 AM

Thanks!!  And they say CAPTalk doesn't do anything good..........

:)

Who says this?

It's ok Joe, your not as bad as everyone says you are...  ;D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on December 27, 2007, 02:00:05 PM
Making a joke.......

I know some Iowan Jokes! heh
Glad the website could help you get some shapes for your new patch.

I liked the WWII "Wolf" patch cut out with tabs, it really made the design jump out! And it's true, the shape doesn't make a diff on price - might actually be LESS because the patches are not as wide and would use less fabric. Bigger does provide for greater detail, but it could be made to a very acceptable quality for a size suitable to BDU pockets. Can't wait to see the final product, please mark me down for a few - I'll help recover some cost!

-Ace
MNWG
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on December 27, 2007, 08:40:00 PM
Regarding Corpus Christi patch -- do you have a direct line of historical connection between the current composite squadron and the old patrol base or are you assuming that because they're in the same town that they are connected? 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Gunner C on December 27, 2007, 09:34:08 PM
Here are two patches that I designed.  One is for the squadron I command (GA808) and the other is for GA Wing Group IV. Let me know what you think

I think they look great!  The only criticism is that (no matter what CAP says) only Army numbered corps have Roman numerals - i.e. XVIII Airborne Corps.  That's one of those hard and fast rules.

Gunner
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on December 27, 2007, 09:54:40 PM
EDIT: I like the Louisiana Wing headquarters squadron patch, but according to AF guidelines, it should be the wing shield with the HQ SQ designation in the scroll. Maybe if someone whips out the AFI, I'll be corrected, but I believe that's correct. Maybe it's a good time to change the wing emblem to match!

Illinois just made an interesting change - the "Wing Patch" - (i.e. the one worn optionally by everyone on the BDU) will stay the traditional shaped eagle, but the "unit insignia" (i.e. worn by Wing staff on the BDU pocket) has been restylized into the standard shield shape.

ILWG has also created and posted specific guidelines for the creation of unit insignia, which has resulted in much cleaner, more professional designs and everyone meeting the standard.  Most of it comes right out of the Heraldry Institute's information.  http://ilcap.org/ilsups/ILWGP1.pdf
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: IceNine on December 27, 2007, 11:49:32 PM
EDIT: I like the Louisiana Wing headquarters squadron patch, but according to AF guidelines, it should be the wing shield with the HQ SQ designation in the scroll. Maybe if someone whips out the AFI, I'll be corrected, but I believe that's correct. Maybe it's a good time to change the wing emblem to match!

Illinois just made an interesting change - the "Wing Patch" - (i.e. the one worn optionally by everyone on the BDU) will stay the traditional shaped eagle, but the "unit insignia" (i.e. worn by Wing staff on the BDU pocket) has been restylized into the standard shield shape.

ILWG has also created and posted specific guidelines for the creation of unit insignia, which has resulted in much cleaner, more professional designs and everyone meeting the standard.  Most of it comes right out of the Heraldry Institute's information.  http://ilcap.org/ilsups/ILWGP1.pdf

the mickey patch?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on December 27, 2007, 11:55:48 PM
Regarding Corpus Christi patch -- do you have a direct line of historical connection between the current composite squadron and the old patrol base or are you assuming that because they're in the same town that they are connected? 

All CAP is this Area is connected, this isn't the "OLD STATES" where units rise and fall in the same place.

They are our CAP ANCESTORS one way or the other and we will honor that link.  Most of the participants from that Costal Patrol were from Oklahoma, including Maj William G. Green of Tulsa who I am currently researching.

The date one our current Unit Charter is in Summer of 2007.  Yes, we have lost a lot of history, and I am getting it back with research in that I am a trained Historian.  But this patch is the first step in establishing the legacy of CAP in South Texas.

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on December 27, 2007, 11:58:22 PM
I have to strongly disagree with this unilateral appropriation of the history of another unit then.  It goes against all conventions of military lineage and honors that I've ever heard of.  The only way to make it work is for CAP to formally reactivate that particular unit. 

Heck my state sent a whole bunch of people to coastal patrol bases -- maybe we need to declare one of our squadrons to be their descendant. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on December 28, 2007, 12:00:05 AM
I have to strongly disagree with this unilateral appropriation of the history of another unit then.  It goes against all conventions of military lineage and honors that I've ever heard of. Heck my state sent a whole bunch of people to coastal patrol bases -- maybe we need to declare one of our squadrons to be their descendant. 

So be it, the patch goes forward into reality. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on December 28, 2007, 12:11:19 AM
Too bad the CAP Historical Foundation or the National Historian can't have veto power over squadron patches.  This is a serious affront to our history and is much worse than those who get upset about whether it is right for patches to be round, shield-shaped, etc. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on December 28, 2007, 12:13:06 AM
Too bad the CAP Historical Foundation or the National Historian can't have veto power over squadron patches.  This is a serious affront to our history and is much worse than those who get upset about whether it is right for patches to be round, shield-shaped, etc. 

So be it, the patch goes forward into reality. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: JayT on December 28, 2007, 12:51:14 AM
Too bad the CAP Historical Foundation or the National Historian can't have veto power over squadron patches.  This is a serious affront to our history and is much worse than those who get upset about whether it is right for patches to be round, shield-shaped, etc. 

Well, lets modifiy it to say 'CAPR'

Would that help?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: JCJ on December 28, 2007, 01:52:49 AM
Another (SWR HQ Squadron)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: IceNine on December 28, 2007, 07:56:07 PM
Mclean County Composite Squadron

GLR-IL-240...
Its scanned so it looks bad.... sorry
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on December 30, 2007, 10:10:45 PM
ILWG has also created and posted specific guidelines for the creation of unit insignia, which has resulted in much cleaner, more professional designs and everyone meeting the standard.  Most of it comes right out of the Heraldry Institute's information.  http://ilcap.org/ilsups/ILWGP1.pdf

Very interesting. There are at least two 39-1 wing supplements that have included something similar, but this is the first CAP publication to specifically approach heraldry that I've seen. Thanks for pointing out its location, the main wing site doesn't have a link to it.

I've added a copy of it to the Document Library at the CAP Patches website.
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library.html)

I'm one who has never had an interest in creating standards or restrictions on a unit's emblem, however I applaud the education included in the pamphlet and believe members will benefit from the guidelines it contains. National has previously shown no interested in the past in doing something similar, but perhaps this publication might set them in a new direction.

There have been some really corny and unattractive patches, and there have been some very artistic and well thought out emblems in Civil Air Patrol. Whatever an outsider's opinion or preferences are, both types uniquely represent the members they were created for at that period in time. That is why I have set out to preserve examples of those patches for the last 15 years.

-Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: jimmydeanno on March 15, 2008, 07:13:58 PM
...

Ace,

This one is for you.

The attached .pdf document includes the three designs of the Seacoast Composite Squadron (NER-NH-010).  It also includes the patch request and approval from the patch design from 1983.

The First patch in the group (the one with the green blob on the side with NH) is the oldest of the three.  It still calls out the original squadron name "Portsmouth Squadron."  The green blob on the left is the seacoast profile of NH and the water is the Atlantic Ocean.  I'm sorry that I can't send it to you, its the only one that we know of in existence and will soon be finding its way into a frame with its brothers and sisters soon.

The Second Patch with the mountains is the one that goes with the approval letter.  Unfortunately I can not read the name of the Wing Commander, but intend to find out who it was.  I honestly can't tell you the meaning of the mountains because southeastern NH doesn't have any mountains.  However, this is the first patch design with the squadron's new name "Seacoast Squadron" which is more representative of the area we cover in NH.  If I recall, it was used up until 1999 or 2000.  You currently have this on your site (version 1). But now you have some history behind it.

The third patch is one already on your site in a few various color revisions (version 2a & 2b) but may need to be changed to version 3 :), which was caused by a change in manufacturer.  However, the patch started use in 2000 and was designed by Hans F. Maryak who is currently a Major in CAP.

Enjoy.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Sarge on March 15, 2008, 08:20:56 PM
Here is our new Sq patch...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: CadetProgramGuy on March 15, 2008, 11:58:43 PM
Here is our new Sq patch...

Ooooo....Jimmy Like!!   Great Awesome job!!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ♠SARKID♠ on March 17, 2008, 03:08:08 AM
Here is our new Sq patch...

Looks awesome but blimey, good luck getting that detail onto thread...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on March 17, 2008, 04:38:04 PM
Here is our new Sq patch...

Looks awesome but blimey, good luck getting that detail onto thread...

That's a big problem with CAP and military patches nowadays - they tend to be designed more for computer wallpaper than something made of thread and fabric.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Sarge on March 19, 2008, 12:24:42 AM
Thanks, actually we got the proof patch back from our friends at Vanguard and lo and behold, the detail looks great! We too were concerned about this, but it looks great! Give 'em a try!
Sarge
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Brad on March 19, 2008, 01:08:41 AM
Here's my Squadron's:

(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8849/patchpd9.jpg)

Also, just to up the geek factor, here's the blazon, I think I got it right...

Azure a bordure Or, on a propeller Gules on an eagle rising proper on a hurt on wings displayed and elevated proper on numerals “020” Argent on a state Azure a bordure Argent, letters “CAP” to chief Gules. Motto “Florence Composite Squadron” in Compartment to Base shield Gules
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: winterg on March 29, 2008, 04:37:04 AM
Rock County Composite Squadron. GLR-WI-008
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/WI/wi008.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: CBidlow on April 01, 2008, 02:19:59 AM
(http://sq131.cawg.cap.gov/SQ_131_patch_final.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: mmouw on April 16, 2008, 06:42:47 PM
Does anyone have a clue or insight into typing the squadron name in the lower portion of the traditional shield? I am using photoshop and can't figure it out. Please help!!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RickFranz on April 16, 2008, 07:45:45 PM
Does anyone have a clue or insight into typing the squadron name in the lower portion of the traditional shield? I am using photoshop and can't figure it out. Please help!!

I used a paint product by adobe that let's you type the letter and then turn it.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: davidsinn on April 16, 2008, 08:43:46 PM
The text function has a curve utility on the top toolbar.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on April 17, 2008, 12:01:05 AM
Adobe Illustrator has the "text on a path" tool.  You simply draw the arc on which you want the text to follow, specify the starting, center and ending points of the text on the path, and type away.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on April 17, 2008, 10:43:32 AM
^^ Which is usually good to a certain extent, but you'll generally have to futz with it, including possibly breaking the text into multiple pieces to get it right - this is usually why
letters on patches aren't shaped right, because people realize how much work its going to be.

However the difference is worth the effort.

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on April 27, 2008, 12:44:46 PM
^^ Which is usually good to a certain extent, but you'll generally have to futz with it, including possibly breaking the text into multiple pieces to get it right - this is usually why
letters on patches aren't shaped right, because people realize how much work its going to be.

However the difference is worth the effort.


Sounds like the solution is converting text to paths (this is in Illustrator -- I'd never use Photoshop for scalable images), then skewing individual letters to conform to the desired shape. (Once you have the type on the emblem, are you really going to need to edit it again?)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: sarflyer on May 03, 2008, 03:16:55 AM
CT062

Title: SER-MS-096 Patch
Post by: Shotgun on May 07, 2008, 10:50:12 AM
Just thought I'd include an image of our new patch.

Our unit recently completed a squadron identity change - new name, motto, patch.

The cadets initiated the process and the project was overseen by the PAO (myself).

(http://www.olivebranchcap.org/images/misc/SquadronPatchEmbroideredSmall.jpg)


Heraldry of the Patch:

The Olive Branch Composite Squadron consists of a round disc with upper and lower rockers.

The upper rocker contains the Latin text of our Squadron motto: "Primoris in Divum Primoris Humi." When translated to English - "First in the Air, First on the Ground."  The motto has dual significance in our goals of being the first organization to respond in times of need and the effort to strive for excellence in all that we do.

The lower rocker contains the text of our Squadron name: Olive Branch Composite Sqdrn.

The disc contains the image of an ascending white dove carrying a brown and green olive branch on a ultramarine blue field with yellow borders. The blue represents "the sky", the primary theater of Civil Air Patrol operations, while the yello represents "the sun" and the excellence required of Squadron personnel. Together the inclusion of those colors indicates the status of the unit as part of the U.S. Air Force's Auxilliary.

The ascending white dove is the wayfarer of the sky, a being who though belongs to the earth is capable of dwelling in the sky. It symbolizes the individual Officers and Cadets of the unit and their peaceful connection to aviation. The dove's ascending orientation reresents the member's efforts to rise and excel in everthything they do.

The Olive Branch carried by the dove represents the city in in which the Squadron is based, Olive Branch, MS, and dually symbolizes the units peaceful mission.

Above the dove are three red stars. These stars represent the three missions of the Civil Air Patrol; Emergency Services, Cadet Programs, and Aerospace Education with the color indicating the unit's zeal in perfoming them.



We should have the finished product in hand in about two weeks.



Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on May 07, 2008, 11:18:25 AM
Awesome work on the Olive Branch Comp. Sq. patch!   :clap:

It follows all of the AF rules on heraldry.  It's crisp, clean artwork and looks great!  Nice work!  :)

Out of sheer curiosity, what was the impetus for updating your squadron's identity?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Shotgun on May 07, 2008, 12:47:25 PM
Awesome work on the Olive Branch Comp. Sq. patch!   :clap:

It follows all of the AF rules on heraldry.  It's crisp, clean artwork and looks great!  Nice work!  :)

Out of sheer curiosity, what was the impetus for updating your squadron's identity?

Thanks!

The only compromise we really had to make was the Latin Text. I really wanted to use the English Translation (as preferred by USAF), but it didn't fit on the rocker. To many letters.  I was able to justify it it to myself for a couple of reasons.  The first is that it is a conversation starter.

The second is that we want to start some sort of tradition on how the Patch is awarded/given to Cadets.
You know - sort of how cub scouts used to be held upside down when they earned their first badge. Or how a mother usually puts on a new pilots first pair of wings.  Having them learn/recite/quote the translation can be part of that tradition. (Any suggestions on traditions or methods for "awarding" patches to new members?)

As far as the new Squadron Identity is concerned it really came out my role as the PA Officer. I'm a fairly new CAP member (May 31 will be my 1 year of service anniversary) and like many new members was pretty Gung Ho!   I chose IT as my specialty Track and first thing I did was put up a new squadron website (http://www.olivebranchcap.org) I started posting squadron news items on the site and as a result was also offered (i.e. told to take) the open position of PAO by our commander.

The Cadets had been trying to come up with a mascot/patch/motto for awhile and weren't doing to well. While made in good faith, all of their ideas were either rip-offs of existing mascots or weren't quite appropriate for a CAP squadron (Death headed Jokers / Dice / Devils/ etc.)

So I volunteered to lead the effort.

At the time we really didn't have any squadron identity except our name - North Mississippi Composite Squadron (which as you can see is pretty boring.) So I wrote up a proposal on the steps we would take to spruce up our corporate image and it was approved by our Commander.

First thing we did was the name change. We first looked at possibly taking on the name of a past member or historical mississippi aviator, but really couldn't find anyone really deserving. We then thought of taking on the name of a Mascot or Symbol (i.e.   The Bol Weevil Squadron,  The Cotton Picking Compoiste Squadron, etc.)  but couldn't really find anything "cool" that we all agreed on. So as a result we simply chose the city in which we are based - Olive Branch, MS.

We wanted to become more involved at the community level and thought identifying ourselves with the city in which we are based made sense.

After we had a new name we could then work on the patch and the motto. We could encorporate our new name into the theme and design elements.

We still don't have a real mascot that has stuck.   The cadets are using "Raptors" but it really doesn't "connect" in a meaningful way.

Now that we have the Patch / Logo done we can start plastering it everywhere - letterhead, website, t-shirts, hats, etc.

It's only taken about 8 months! - But then that seems pretty normal for CAP!

:)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on May 08, 2008, 11:07:37 AM
The OBCS patch is very nice - not only are the colors and shape distinctive, you avoided a lot of the pitfalls of patch design, such as putting too many things on the patch or the need to put CAP or your charter number.

Nice work!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Duke Dillio on May 08, 2008, 11:35:00 AM
Love the patch.  Great job there.

As for mascots, how about "The White Doves" or "The Green Olives?"

As for things for your cadets to earn the patch, you could always "Koala-fy" them.  What you do is find a nice tree with a good size low branch.....

Oooo, donuts....
Title: Re: SER-MS-096 Patch
Post by: Eclipse on May 08, 2008, 11:48:03 AM
Just thought I'd include an image of our new patch.

Our unit recently completed a squadron identity change - new name, motto, patch.

The cadets initiated the process and the project was overseen by the PAO (myself).

(http://www.olivebranchcap.org/images/misc/SquadronPatchEmbroideredSmall.jpg)


Heraldry of the Patch:

Beautiful job, one of the most original I've seen in a while - wish I could have been more help but life got in the way...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: arajca on May 08, 2008, 12:01:43 PM
My unit currently awards the unit patch to cadets when they complete their Curry. They are pinned, receive their ribbon and the patch at the monthly awards ceremony. For seniors, they earn the patch by completing level 1 and enrolling in a specialty track. It is presented at the same ceremony along with their membership ribbon (we gotta find a better name for it).
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Duke Dillio on May 08, 2008, 12:06:11 PM
How about the "Came And Paid Ribbon?"  Is that catchier than the "Membership Ribbon?"   >:D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 09, 2008, 03:46:25 PM
To all who have e-mailed me and not gotten a response, I'm sorry for the delay but  WILL get back to you. Spring has come in like a lion between personal and occupational duties for me...

Anyway, I posted the art for this awhile back, but neglected to put up a scan of the patch after it got made.

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MN/mnctg10.jpg)

This is an activity/event patch for cadets. Here's the "what/why" info on it...
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MN/mnctg10.html

Thanks for looking,
-Ace

And before you fargen board trolls out there start in on it AGAIN, those interested in this patch thread are not interested in hearing your negative opinions about patches. Move on to another thread and try being helpful and thoughtful for once.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: mikeylikey on May 09, 2008, 03:57:22 PM
^ Very colorful!  Nice
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: notaNCO forever on May 09, 2008, 04:02:04 PM
Looks good I lke the eagle. :clap:
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on May 09, 2008, 04:35:07 PM
And before you fargen board trolls out there start in on it AGAIN, those interested in this patch thread are not interested in hearing your negative opinions about patches. Move on to another thread and try being helpful and thoughtful for once.

um...I disagree - and with no comment on the above, if you place something out for public review, you open yourself up to public criticism as well, part of the game.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on May 09, 2008, 06:20:09 PM
And before you fargen board trolls out there start in on it AGAIN, those interested in this patch thread are not interested in hearing your negative opinions about patches. Move on to another thread and try being helpful and thoughtful for once.

um...I disagree - and with no comment on the above, if you place something out for public review, you open yourself up to public criticism as well, part of the game.

I gotta back Eclipse on this one (Satan is putting on ski boots and buying lift tickets as I type...).

The idea that people put stuff out here and expect nothing but unalloyed squeeing about it smacks of the "Every Cadet's a winner in CAP!" heresy that is the bane of so many org's.

I put stuff up here, it gets knocked about - sometimes fairly, sometimes not.  Consider the source, take whatever lesson you can from it and move on.  Learning how not to let criticism get to you is vital to professional success and your mental health.

Of course, I'm still working on that skill even now...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on May 09, 2008, 06:33:43 PM
^
In an effort to facilitate brainstorming the topic, I started to search the web for squadron patches that were well designed and met USAF heraldry guidelines for squadrons.  To my surprise, I was only able to find a small handful of squadron patches that were both very appealing as well as properly "formatted."

So, any of you out there have for your unit or know of other units that have really well done squadron patches?

I recall a really neat unit patch from I think MDWG that had a cartoon turtle armed with a Lewis Gun.  It was really well done, but still wouldn't have met the critera of this thread.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on May 09, 2008, 11:57:14 PM
^
In an effort to facilitate brainstorming the topic, I started to search the web for squadron patches that were well designed and met USAF heraldry guidelines for squadrons.  To my surprise, I was only able to find a small handful of squadron patches that were both very appealing as well as properly "formatted."

So, any of you out there have for your unit or know of other units that have really well done squadron patches?

I recall a really neat unit patch from I think MDWG that had a cartoon turtle armed with a Lewis Gun.  It was really well done, but still wouldn't have met the critera of this thread.

That would be the one I had designed for my old sqdn:

http://www.mdcap.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=unit.view&unitID=5

We were definitely looking for a WWII-ish looking patch when we did that.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: mikeylikey on May 09, 2008, 11:59:52 PM
^ That is AWESOME!   :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: SER-MS-096 Patch
Post by: Gunner C on May 10, 2008, 06:57:08 AM
Just thought I'd include an image of our new patch.

Our unit recently completed a squadron identity change - new name, motto, patch.

The cadets initiated the process and the project was overseen by the PAO (myself).

(http://www.olivebranchcap.org/images/misc/SquadronPatchEmbroideredSmall.jpg)


Heraldry of the Patch:

The Olive Branch Composite Squadron consists of a round disc with upper and lower rockers.

The upper rocker contains the Latin text of our Squadron motto: "Primoris in Divum Primoris Humi." When translated to English - "First in the Air, First on the Ground."  The motto has dual significance in our goals of being the first organization to respond in times of need and the effort to strive for excellence in all that we do.

The lower rocker contains the text of our Squadron name: Olive Branch Composite Sqdrn.

The disc contains the image of an ascending white dove carrying a brown and green olive branch on a ultramarine blue field with yellow borders. The blue represents "the sky", the primary theater of Civil Air Patrol operations, while the yello represents "the sun" and the excellence required of Squadron personnel. Together the inclusion of those colors indicates the status of the unit as part of the U.S. Air Force's Auxilliary.

The ascending white dove is the wayfarer of the sky, a being who though belongs to the earth is capable of dwelling in the sky. It symbolizes the individual Officers and Cadets of the unit and their peaceful connection to aviation. The dove's ascending orientation reresents the member's efforts to rise and excel in everthything they do.

The Olive Branch carried by the dove represents the city in in which the Squadron is based, Olive Branch, MS, and dually symbolizes the units peaceful mission.

Above the dove are three red stars. These stars represent the three missions of the Civil Air Patrol; Emergency Services, Cadet Programs, and Aerospace Education with the color indicating the unit's zeal in perfoming them.



We should have the finished product in hand in about two weeks.


I appreciate your work but . . . It looks like a chaplains service patch.  In heraldry, the dove is always a religious symbol.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Gunner C on May 10, 2008, 06:58:15 AM
^
In an effort to facilitate brainstorming the topic, I started to search the web for squadron patches that were well designed and met USAF heraldry guidelines for squadrons.  To my surprise, I was only able to find a small handful of squadron patches that were both very appealing as well as properly "formatted."

So, any of you out there have for your unit or know of other units that have really well done squadron patches?

I recall a really neat unit patch from I think MDWG that had a cartoon turtle armed with a Lewis Gun.  It was really well done, but still wouldn't have met the critera of this thread.

That would be the one I had designed for my old sqdn:

http://www.mdcap.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=unit.view&unitID=5

We were definitely looking for a WWII-ish looking patch when we did that.

That's more like it!

GC
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Fifinella on May 10, 2008, 09:18:46 PM
I hardly think calling people
Quote
fargen board trolls
is
Quote
being helpful and thoughtful
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on May 10, 2008, 09:39:34 PM
^
In an effort to facilitate brainstorming the topic, I started to search the web for squadron patches that were well designed and met USAF heraldry guidelines for squadrons.  To my surprise, I was only able to find a small handful of squadron patches that were both very appealing as well as properly "formatted."

So, any of you out there have for your unit or know of other units that have really well done squadron patches?

I recall a really neat unit patch from I think MDWG that had a cartoon turtle armed with a Lewis Gun.  It was really well done, but still wouldn't have met the critera of this thread.

Probably most of the patches posted in this thread wouldn't meet what I originally posted looking for.  It's turned more into an "everybody share any patch" thread.  ;)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on May 10, 2008, 10:23:56 PM
What about a new thread, heavily moderated, with no comment, simply the image and unit info?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SJFedor on May 10, 2008, 10:31:06 PM
I hardly think calling people
Quote
fargen board trolls
is
Quote
being helpful and thoughtful

 :D :D :D :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 10, 2008, 11:21:34 PM
I hardly think calling people fargen board trolls is being helpful and thoughtful

I was looking out for the larger whole, not the un-named trolls, which I believe was helpful and thoughtful. Why do we need to keep reading [here] abount "I hate patches" and "we shouldn't wear any patches" again and again? It's just not the right thread for it, that's all.

I take criticism very well, but prefer to take it in person or in private... not in the impersonalization of a discussion board post. Awgh, now THIS is the topic and not patches........................ great.

-Ace

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/NY/ny015.jpg)
A skyline immortalized.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on May 11, 2008, 10:51:01 AM
Why do we need to keep reading [here] abount "I hate patches" and "we shouldn't wear any patches" again and again? It's just not the right thread for it, that's all.

The bias is obvious Ace.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on May 11, 2008, 11:41:29 AM
The Olive Branch patch looks very nice.  However, the separate upper and lower rockers just look a little odd to me.  Could you have got the motto in English if you wrapped it all the way around the patch rather than trying for just a rocker?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on May 11, 2008, 12:25:56 PM
The Olive Branch patch looks very nice.  However, the separate upper and lower rockers just look a little odd to me.  Could you have got the motto in English if you wrapped it all the way around the patch rather than trying for just a rocker?

Odd?  How?

They are the way they are supposed to be - its not supposed to be a closed circle.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 11, 2008, 06:25:39 PM
Yeah, I am biased. Patches, Harleys, Redheads.... I have my guilty pleasures!

I don't think there has been any predetermined length of size of the tabs in AF publications. I guess some geometry could be applied.

I'm for the left side of the top tab lining up with the right side of the bottom tab, and vise versa. Regardless of the size of the tabs, they look pretty good if the sides make an "X" with two diameters, right in the center of the disk. The Olive Branch patch does do this.

Maybe and engineer out there can "break it down" more, heh.

-Ace

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CO/co023.jpg)
Think outside the box.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on May 11, 2008, 10:20:27 PM
I think the only guideline for the arcs is that if you have an upper and lower one they should be of equal length.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: jb512 on May 11, 2008, 10:36:29 PM
The Olive Branch patch looks very nice.  However, the separate upper and lower rockers just look a little odd to me.  Could you have got the motto in English if you wrapped it all the way around the patch rather than trying for just a rocker?

Circles with arcs on top and bottom are traditional heraldic shapes for squadron patches.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on May 11, 2008, 10:37:46 PM
I think the only guideline for the arcs is that if you have an upper and lower one they should be of equal length.

There is a max on the degree of each arch and the number of characters and spaces that will fit also, IIRC.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on May 11, 2008, 11:20:53 PM
I don't know of any rules on the size of the rockers, but they just seem too big to be stand-alone.  The other examples shown look much better to me.  Just a personal preference.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ddelaney103 on May 12, 2008, 09:57:28 AM
I don't know of any rules on the size of the rockers, but they just seem too big to be stand-alone.  The other examples shown look much better to me.  Just a personal preference.

AF guidelines allow rockers of 90, 120 or 150 degrees of arc.  They have to be the same top and bottom.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 12, 2008, 11:37:09 AM
AF guidelines allow rockers of 90, 120 or 150 degrees of arc.  They have to be the same top and bottom.

If anyone knows of any USAF resources for guidelines like above (other than the AFI84-105, what is mostly cited here), please pass a link along if available. Sometimes there are Army based heraldry references that all services use rather than recreate their own - however I have none saved that I can point out.

I'm feeling the need for a "How the AF does it..." section of the Patch Creation page (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/creation.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/creation.html)) on the CAP Patches website. This only because of the progressive trend of CAP units attepmting to follow thier protocals, and not having a sufficient official resource.

BTW, the "Institute of Herladry" will help design an emblem or insignia for CAP, but at a STARTING cost of $225 - just for  researching and layout of the design! I also could try to convince the owner of USAFPatches.com to attempt creating such a resource, as I'm sure active duty units probably frequent his site for ideas and dirrection.

-Ace

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MD/md039.jpg)
Have fun with it!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Shotgun on May 12, 2008, 05:56:34 PM
The Olive Branch patch looks very nice.  However, the separate upper and lower rockers just look a little odd to me.  Could you have got the motto in English if you wrapped it all the way around the patch rather than trying for just a rocker?

Odd?  How?

They are the way they are supposed to be - its not supposed to be a closed circle.

That is an interesting option and we did in fact look at that possibility. However in the end we decided to stick with the guidelines for the shape of the squadron patch. The rules for the shape of the patch and the length and position of the rockers are spelled out pretty clearly. The use of english for the motto seems to be a preference.   

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PhoenixRisen on May 16, 2008, 12:40:02 AM
Here's the new design for my up and coming squadron at my high school.  (We're simply waiting on the charter from National).  Props to Major Bob Williams for the design!

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a94/flyboy8/ECS_Disk.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: sarflyer on May 16, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
Nice patch Phoenix!  :clap:
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DC on May 16, 2008, 01:31:05 PM
Yes, very nice. Props to you and the Major!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Gunner C on May 17, 2008, 10:06:48 AM
Here's the new design for my up and coming squadron at my high school.  (We're simply waiting on the charter from National).  Props to Major Bob Williams for the design!


Now THAT is a good looking patch!  :clap:


Wear it with pride.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on May 17, 2008, 10:34:08 AM
The arcs are flipped.  Motto goes on the top. http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/heraldry/chapter_two.html
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: CAP006 on May 17, 2008, 10:47:29 AM
Nice man!  ;D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PhoenixRisen on May 17, 2008, 01:51:12 PM
The arcs are flipped.  Motto goes on the top. http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/heraldry/chapter_two.html

I realized that after I forwarded this to my unit commander, to forward it for approval.  This version's already being used... :(
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 20, 2008, 02:04:12 PM
<RING><RING> "Hello?"
"It's the AETC, they would like to speak with you."

Just kidding, man. It looks sharp, and you say they HAVE been manufactured?

Care to throw us thred pickers here a bone with the oportunity to purchase one of your fine squadron patches? The faster you can get rid of them, the closer you'll be to ordering more with the tabs flipped -- should your unit care to make the change.

Thanks for the peek! Also, please do post any historical information you may have on the patch here.

-Ace



  • It has the correct colors
The "Air Force yellow" is usually on the emblem's edge, but not sure if there is precidence for that or not. Same deal as "Air Force (ultramarine) blue" usually being the disk's field, which this patch has.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PhoenixRisen on May 20, 2008, 02:11:30 PM
<RING><RING> "Hello?"
"It's the AETC, they would like to speak with you."

Just kidding, man. It looks sharp, and you say they HAVE been manufactured?

Care to throw us thred pickers here a bone with the oportunity to purchase one of your fine squadron patches? The faster you can get rid of them, the closer you'll be to ordering more with the tabs flipped -- should your unit care to make the change.

Thanks for the peek! Also, please do post any historical information you may have on the patch here.

-Ace


Sir,

They actually haven't been manufactured yet.  I'm waiting untill our squadron is officially chartered to do that.  What I meant by "already being used" is that this is now what's on file with the Group and Wing.  I know the squadron is still in the planning stages - but we're too busy with administrative-type stuff (other than Sq Patches) to change this now. 

I'll definitely take up the suggestion and talk to my commander about changing it in the future.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 20, 2008, 02:26:22 PM
I'll definitely take up the suggestion and talk to my commander about changing it in the future.

Don't swet it, AFI 84-105 is only a helpful suggestion where Civil Air Patrol emblems are concerned. We also don't have to register them with the Air Force Historical Research Agency (AFHRA). But DO send a finished patch to the National CAP Archives Curator, per CAPR 39-1.

-Ace
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Hoser on May 20, 2008, 03:50:20 PM
For what it's worth, thought I'd post mine

(http://captalk.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=572.0;attach=1959)

Fixed image - MIKE
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Shotgun on May 20, 2008, 05:42:55 PM
I just wanted to follow up on my previous post regarding the Olive Branch Composite Squadron's new patch.  After a long and drawn out 6 month process the patches are finally in!

(http://www.olivebranchcap.org/images/misc/SquadronPatchEmbroideredSmall.jpg)

Over all I'm pretty pleased. We placed our order from Patches4less.com and had them in our eager little hands within 10 days. The cost was such that we have 100 patches we can provide to our members  (or anyone else who may be interested) for $2.50 each and even make a couple of pennies on the deal.

If there are any collectors out there that are interested in adding one or two to their collection, shoot me a PM or contact me through the our Squadron's website. (http://www.olivebranchcap.org)

On a related note, I've created a squadron patch template that anyone can download and use to make their own patch. It's an Adobe Illustrator file containing seperate layers for the background, rocker texts, and center logo area. I'm working on creating a layered .psd file for photoshop users but am having problems with the text paths converting. The template can be downloaded from our website at http://www.olivebranchcap.org  Click on DOWNLOADS from the top menu and navigate to Media / Graphics and Images / Squadron Patch Template.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. It was a great help for us in the creation of our patch.  I hope the template will return the favor.


Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PhoenixRisen on May 20, 2008, 07:29:10 PM
But DO send a finished patch to the National CAP Archives Curator, per CAPR 39-1.

Got it.  Thanks for bringing that to my attention, sir.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on June 12, 2008, 02:39:21 PM
Our squadron patch project has finally been completed.  Below is a snapshot of the finished patch.  It was approved by the Wing Commander in April, produced and subsequently unveiled at our squadron's annual awards banquet on 31 May.   

The stitched patch:
(http://www.ny408.org/images/sussey_patch_web.jpg)

The emblem (created as a vector image in Illustrator):
(http://www.ny408.org/images/squadronpatch_web_graphic.jpg)

The motto, "Ad Proficiendum Civitatem" is Latin roughly meaning to serve the citizens/community. The emblem's significance/heraldry is also available here (http://www.ny408.org/NY408SquadronPatchHeraldry.pdf).

 8)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on June 12, 2008, 02:52:50 PM
^ why isn't the text in the rockers aligned properly?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BigMojo on June 12, 2008, 02:57:11 PM
Well, after a change of Command and house cleaning, the new Command Staff decided the time was right for a new patch/emblem. After many designs, this is what was decided upon. Before anyone says anything, we know there is no bright blue or yellow, and we did not use any CAP emblems. These were conscious decisions, and this has been approved by the Wing Commander has been produced. So here it is, along with the heraldry....

Image snipped, see post below - MIKE

Mascot: The Florida Panther. The Florida panther was chosen as he represents the apex predator of Everglades, our "operational home". He is known for his cunning, swiftness, and ability to adapt. He never fails in finding his quarry. All traits we try to exemplify in our Emergency Services / SAR missions. He is intelligent and knows his home like none other, intelligence we want to portray in our Aerospace Education. The panther is also a doting and committed parent, raising and teaching their young to great
lengths the skills needed later in life, this is the goal of our Cadet Programs.

Emblem: The base of the emblem is that of the darkest blue of night sky, the same sky where we fly, and under which we perform our missions. Strewn across the sky, is a field of stars, 16 of them. There are 11 small stars representing the number of cadet achievements and 5 large ones representing the major cadet milestones. Situated large and in the center of the emblem is our mascot, the Florida panther, he is seen scanning the environment searching for his quarry. The panther is stalking through a sea of sawgrass, the dominant environment of the Everglades which makes up the majority of our territory. In the top rocker is written “SWIFT, SILENT, AND VIGILANT”, our motto (explained below). The bottom rocker contains our name, “Fort Lauderdale Composite Squadron”.

Motto: “SWIFT, SILENT, AND VIGILANT”. This is expanded in meaning in so much as we aim to be swift in our duties, silent, always aware of our surroundings-listening, never complaining, and vigilant to our environment and our missions.

Colors: Colors are two tones of Khaki, representing the colors of the "sea of grass", and the color of earth. Khakis represent honesty, steadfastness, and strength. It is also a salute to our history and uniforms of the early Civil Air Patrol. Green is the color of nature. It symbolizes growth, harmony, and freshness. Green has strong emotional correspondence with safety. Blue the color of the sky, representing where we complete our missions, It is often associated with depth and stability. Dark blue represents knowledge, power, integrity, and seriousness. White is associated with light, goodness, innocence, and purity. It is considered to be the color of perfection, our goal overall.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Shotgun on June 12, 2008, 10:41:49 PM
Well, after a change of Command and house cleaning, the new Command Staff decided the time was right for a new patch/emblem. After many designs, this is what was decided upon. Before anyone says anything, we know there is no bright blue or yellow, and we did not use any CAP emblems. These were conscious decisions, and this has been approved by the Wing Commander has been produced.

I  like the non traditional design. Very cool!

I'd love to see a picture of the path when you get them. It will be interesting to see how the designs looks embroidered.


Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on June 12, 2008, 10:49:59 PM
Quote
Motto: “SWIFT, SILENT, AND VIGILANT”. This is expanded in meaning in so much as we aim to be swift in our duties, silent, always aware of our surroundings-listening, never complaining, and vigilant to our environment and our missions.

I know you're just trying to come up with a way to justify ripping off the Force Recon motto, so I'm going to assume that you don't actually try to be silent in the field....

GT task 0-0406 (Use Whistle Signals)

GT task O-0407 (Conduct Attraction Techniques)Task guide quote: "Stealth is not a good thing on the search line."
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on June 12, 2008, 11:07:52 PM
Sweet design, very original, though FWIW I probably would have gone with "swift and vigilant", although silence on the search line is what is needed - too much chatter=distracted searchers.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BigMojo on June 13, 2008, 09:12:20 AM
On the Motto...I went with the group, and trust me it was better than anything else they came up with!

Patch:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/badger1030/patch1.jpg)

MODS: Can you please modify my previous post with the image linked from the one in this post...I deleted the other image in my photobucket by mistake :doh:
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: mikeylikey on June 13, 2008, 10:45:52 AM
^ Thats sweet!  "look out......behind you".  I prefer spider monkeys, but hey everyone is different when it comes to animals to use on their patches.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Shotgun on June 13, 2008, 10:56:37 AM

Patch:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/badger1030/patch1.jpg)


The transition form vector art to embroidered patch turned out pretty well.
I was initially thinking that the grass would be the hard part but it looks. But it looks good.

It's too bad the two sizes of the stars didn't come out more distinctly.

It looks great though! It's a great tool to promote your squadron!

Are you going to make them available to collectors?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BigMojo on June 13, 2008, 11:46:15 AM
^ Thats sweet!  "look out......behind you".  I prefer spider monkeys, but hey everyone is different when it comes to animals to use on their patches.

At least it's not a <expletive deleted> snake!

pkloehn: Thank you...the scan didn't come out as well as I would have liked. The green is much more "green" than what the scan shows. I agree on the stars, that's my only disappointment in how it came out.  I must say it looks pretty sharp on both the BDU and the BBDU.

I might have a couple left for collectors soon, but I need to make sure everyone in the squadron is outfitted first.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Talon One Six on July 05, 2008, 11:32:49 PM
heres a few of the ones i have been trying to make for plainfield


1. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/PCSv1.jpg)
2. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/PCSv2.jpg)
3. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/PCSv3.jpg)
4. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/PCSv5.jpg)
5. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/PCSv6.jpg)
6. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/PCSv7.jpg)
7. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/PCSv9.jpg)
8. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/PCSv10.jpg)
9. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/PCSv11.jpg)
10. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/PCSv12.jpg)
11.(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/PCSv13.jpg)
12.(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/PCSv14.jpg)
13.(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/PCSv15.jpg)
14.(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/PCSv16.jpg)


final version
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/raven111/Mod5copy.jpg)

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: mikeylikey on July 05, 2008, 11:59:34 PM
^ Attack of the Killer High School Mascots.  JK!  Not bad work........then again, Neon Green?!?!

AND PLEASE What ever you decide on, DO NOT USE "Blue Falcons".

PM me for a meaning of Blue Falcon, if you don't know what that means.   
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on July 06, 2008, 12:05:34 AM
ewww, a quick search confirms not to use it....
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on July 06, 2008, 12:07:41 AM
Blue Falcons   :o

In any case, re: your "final design" - thanks for choosing to use the proper shape for a squadron (disc with rockers). 

The gradient will likely transition poorly to stitching (always think of the final medium of application for a graphic).

It's ill-advised and not consistent with traditional AF heraldry guidelines to put text into your field.

Motto goes on the top rocker, squadron designation on the bottom.

The small CAP shield and AF symbol will not show up well at any small size, nor will it represent well once stitched.  You probably won't even be able to recognize the CAP command shield.  Stay away from using small details in patches, as they will more than likely get lost once embroidered.

Good start, though.  Lots of bright colors. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on July 06, 2008, 11:45:29 AM
Blue Falcons   :o

LMAO because I know what it means... Maybe it's appropriate for that unit... you never know.  >:D

What do F-16s, F-4s, falcons, cardinals, phantoms etc have to do with a CAP Cadet Squadron in Plainfield New Jersey besides looking/sounding cool?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on July 06, 2008, 11:53:42 AM
You should also take the time to shape text properly, if you don't have the tools or skills necessary, find or pay someone who  does (and a double exposure in the text areas will never render properly when sewn.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on July 06, 2008, 01:21:38 PM
The final version is a nice ripoff of the 517th Airlift Squadron's patch.
Maybe you should send them a copy of your proposed patch and see if they have any problems with it?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on July 06, 2008, 05:02:17 PM
My opinion on the Plainfield art above?

Scrap them all. And here's why.

First off, they are emblems in search of a motto, mission and unit, and it should be the other way around. The emblem should reflect the unit's missions and motto, if any. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Secondly, you're stealing other people's identities. Isn't that the Ball State University cardinal logo? And do I not see parts of the 1 FW emblem in a couple of the pieces?

Think about what YOUR UNIT is and does, and how it should be reflected. THEN start thinking about an emblem.

I know this sounds brutal, but they're way off base. Please take my advice, and come back with something truly original.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on July 06, 2008, 05:18:46 PM
My opinion on the Plainfield art above?

Scrap them all. And here's why.

First off, they are emblems in search of a motto, mission and unit, and it should be the other way around. The emblem should reflect the unit's missions and motto, if any. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Secondly, you're stealing other people's identities. Isn't that the Ball State University cardinal logo? And do I not see parts of the 1 FW emblem in a couple of the pieces?

Think about what YOUR UNIT is and does, and how it should be reflected. THEN start thinking about an emblem.

I know this sounds brutal, but they're way off base. Please take my advice, and come back with something truly original.

While you have a point, I think that might have best been handled in PM.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Talon One Six on July 06, 2008, 05:44:09 PM
My opinion on the Plainfield art above?

Scrap them all. And here's why.

First off, they are emblems in search of a motto, mission and unit, and it should be the other way around. The emblem should reflect the unit's missions and motto, if any. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Secondly, you're stealing other people's identities. Isn't that the Ball State University cardinal logo? And do I not see parts of the 1 FW emblem in a couple of the pieces?

Think about what YOUR UNIT is and does, and how it should be reflected. THEN start thinking about an emblem.

I know this sounds brutal, but they're way off base. Please take my advice, and come back with something truly original.


i used te school offical mascot for the cardinals logo, the 1st FW because several of out members are formerly apart of the wing, including my father, the Falcon was choosen as  we wanted an animal with keen eyesight as  in SAR, a bird since we are a big AE squadron, and also becuase the vast majority of our sqaudron want to fly vipers with the air force,  a lesser point is the NJ Air Guard uses F-16's and used to use F-4's at Mcguire, which is also tied to us via my father


as for thr 517th, the only thing i used from their patch was the bird, each rocker and the circle are from three differnt patches
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on July 06, 2008, 06:14:05 PM
as for thr 517th, the only thing i used from their patch was the bird, each rocker and the circle are from three differnt patches


If you look at the 517th patch you will notice that your patch layout matches almost exactly and that the only major difference is that you used black as your background color while the 517th used white.

The round patch with the rockers is the standard squadron patch shape, if you're following the design guidlines.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on July 06, 2008, 11:04:35 PM
While you have a point, I think that might have best been handled in PM.
I admitted what I said was brutal, but when you put something out there for public criticism, you should expect the good and the bad. Maybe I should have been a little more sensitive. My work faces public scrutiny every day, so maybe my skin's thicker.

i used te school offical mascot for the cardinals logo, the 1st FW because several of out members are formerly apart of the wing, including my father, the Falcon was choosen as  we wanted an animal with keen eyesight as  in SAR, a bird since we are a big AE squadron, and also becuase the vast majority of our sqaudron want to fly vipers with the air force,  a lesser point is the NJ Air Guard uses F-16's and used to use F-4's at Mcguire, which is also tied to us via my father

as for thr 517th, the only thing i used from their patch was the bird, each rocker and the circle are from three differnt patches

While I admire your desire to identify your unit's heraldry with some of your members, identifying those members through a previous unit assignment is dicey. You need to look at the here and now, and be mindful that your unit has a tenuous tie to Air Force units and missions.

Your squadron doesn't fly fighters, but since SAR is a big part of our emergency services mission, playing up SAR isn't a bad idea. It's easy to fall back on birds, since the A in CAP represents "Air." Maybe an original drawing of a bird of prey flying while holding binoculars?

Do some thinking, do some drawing, and remember -- keep it simple.
The more you throw at an emblem, the harder it is to pick up easily, and the more likely you'd have been better off just putting a picture of an Excedrin bottle in the middle. The best emblems and corporate logos are the simplest and cleanest.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pumbaa on November 05, 2008, 07:37:22 PM
Just approved by Wing and in production.  We are a new Squadron and  have our Standing up Ceremony on the 25th and we will give one to each of the current cadets and officers.  We have 23 thus far, 3 applications in, and 2 more interested!!!!

(http://owegocap.com/images//owego%20patch%20copy%20%28wince%29.jpg)

Symbols
Wings - CAP Air operational Mission/ also represents swiftness
Sword -Valor, Leadership. Followership
Shield - Aerospace Education Mission
Earth - CAP Ground Missions

Colors
Silver - Wisdom
Green - Represents the land/earth
Blue - Represents the sky and where the squadron is going into the future
Gold/ yellow - Bravery
Red - Purity, Faithfulness

Note: Colored blue (ultra-marine), representative of the sky and the United States Air Force.

The outer disc, of Yellow, represents the highest values such as excellence, honor and loyalty with which we perform our duties and the wisdom that our members provide to all the facets of the Civil Air Patrol.

The second disc, of Air Force Blue, represents the constancy and devotion that our members have for both the Air Force and Civil Air Patrol.

The Lower tab contains the squadron’s name "414 Composite Squadron" for which we serve and care the most.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on November 05, 2008, 09:24:34 PM
The thing that looks like a Federation badge is a shield? 

Overall, looks nice. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pumbaa on November 05, 2008, 09:27:15 PM
I did not know what to call it.  My heraldry research showed that shape is used for aerospace. 

Any suggestions for a better term would be appreciated.  And yeah it does look like the federation badge I guess...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on November 05, 2008, 10:11:15 PM
Your squadron's name is NY414 Composite Squadon? ???
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pumbaa on November 05, 2008, 10:16:24 PM
We are the Owego Squadron, Our Charter is NY 414.  We elected to use 414 as there is a possibility that we could move to another town.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: A.Member on December 05, 2008, 01:42:52 AM
Stumbled across this thread and thought I'd open myself up to some criticism.  ;)

This is our current patch:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/J-RAD/Misc/VikingLogo.jpg)

Clearly, the current patch wouldn't meet USAF heraldry guidelines.  We haven't discussed changing the patch but I just downloaded Inkscape and all this talk about heraldry gave me something to practice on (I'm an absolute novice when it comes to vector graphics).  Anyway, here are a couple draft ideas I came up with:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/J-RAD/Misc/VikingPatchDraft-White.png)  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/J-RAD/Misc/Viking_Patch_Draftsvg-path3272-588.png)

I've got a couple other ideas but unfortunately, my talents are better with pencil and paper.  ;)

My thoughts on heraldry would be something like this:

The top scroll is obviously empty.  It’s supposed to contain a motto.  If we don’t have one or can’t think of one, then the scroll can be removed and we’d just have the bottom scroll with the squadron name.  Aside from that, I think both new designs would be compliant with all current USAF Heraldry guidelines (even if they don't necessarily apply to us).

Let me know what you think.  I'll try not to cry.  :)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on December 05, 2008, 01:47:53 AM
Sharp.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on December 05, 2008, 12:37:06 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/J-RAD/Misc/Viking_Patch_Draftsvg-path3272-588.png)

This is going to sound bad, but when I first fixated on the emblem, it looked like an airplane flying up into a parachute. Maybe filling in the hull of the ship will fix that.

If you need some help with it, shoot me a PDF or a vector EPS of the file that I can open in Illustrator 10 and I could tweak it and fire it back at you.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: JAFO78 on December 05, 2008, 02:43:10 PM
Very, very nice. I just may shed a tear, for my old squadron.   :clap: :clap:

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on December 07, 2008, 04:15:31 PM
Viking Squadron's patch is the oldest in-use patch in Minnesota Wing. It even pre-date's St Paul and Anoka Squadrons' emblems from the late 80s.

It also pre-dates current Air Force heraldry guidelines.

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MN/mn030a.jpg)

"Viking" is more than just the squadron name, but a tie to the 934th Airlift Wing - the head being from their emblem. An honor to carry, and it would be a shame to loose that history.

Just wanted to point that out, because I'm sure it wasn't considered in the design process.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on December 07, 2008, 06:37:47 PM
Viking Squadron's patch is the oldest in-use patch in Minnesota Wing. It even pre-date's St Paul and Anoka Squadrons' emblems from the late 80s.

It also pre-dates current Air Force heraldry guidelines.

It's also the same shape as Colorado's new wing emblem, which doesn't predate Air Force heraldry directives....
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: JAFO78 on December 08, 2008, 11:07:38 PM
Come on now guys you are making me home sick. Oh wait its snowing there, but not here in FL. Oh just the same I miss MN. :(


 8)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on December 08, 2008, 11:27:37 PM
Viking Squadron's patch is the oldest in-use patch in Minnesota Wing. It even pre-date's St Paul and Anoka Squadrons' emblems from the late 80s.

It also pre-dates current Air Force heraldry guidelines.

It's also the same shape as Colorado's new wing emblem, which doesn't predate Air Force heraldry directives....

I think the argument could be made that the Wing patches are not really a unit insignia but more a coat-of-arms.  They apply to an entire wing, which has subset units and groups, but do not apply specifically to wing staff, and on the only uniform with a specific placement for unit insignia (BDU/BBDU) they are not worn there, but have their own specific locations.

Also, many wings now have specific, seperate, "unit insignia" for those assigned to XX-001.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on December 09, 2008, 12:26:02 AM
I think the argument could be made that the Wing patches are not really a unit insignia but more a coat-of-arms.  They apply to an entire wing, which has subset units and groups, but do not apply specifically to wing staff, and on the only uniform with a specific placement for unit insignia (BDU/BBDU) they are not worn there, but have their own specific locations.

Also, many wings now have specific, seperate, "unit insignia" for those assigned to XX-001.

Only in CAP does a wing headquarters element get its own insignia. Talk about bling creep -- and everyone criticizes the Hawk Mountain people!

Wing emblems are organizational emblems for the entire wing, including the headquarters element. Tabs for "wing staff" or separate wing staff emblems are unnecessary and an ego boost. Emblems should identify a unit, not be augmented as though being on wing staff makes someone more special.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on December 09, 2008, 01:09:29 AM
Wing emblems are organizational emblems for the entire wing, including the headquarters element. Tabs for "wing staff" or separate wing staff emblems are unnecessary and an ego boost. Emblems should identify a unit, not be augmented as though being on wing staff makes someone more special.

So then we should get rid of all unit insignia, since that's the same argument.

Being on Wing staff isn't any more special, but its not any less special, either.  Why should they be denied the esprit-de-corps that comes with all the extra responsibility?

The Wing King gets a pin on his service dress uniforms, but beyond that, there's no identifier that a member is part of xx-001.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on December 09, 2008, 02:46:08 AM
In the AF, depending on your MAJCOM, you may or may not wear your squadron patch on your BDU's.

The rule in AMC is that you can wear either the Wing Patch or your Squadron Patch on your left pocket, it's the Wing Commander's call.

In ACC, you wear the Wing Patch on your left pocket and your squadron patch above your nametape on the right side.

The MAJCOM patch is always worn on the right pocket.

So, as far as I can see, CAP isn't any more messed up then the AF is on this.

Of course the transition to the ABU is fixing the Air Force's problem with this, they just won't wear the patches!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: A.Member on December 09, 2008, 03:43:46 AM
Viking Squadron's patch is the oldest in-use patch in Minnesota Wing. It even pre-date's St Paul and Anoka Squadrons' emblems from the late 80s.

It also pre-dates current Air Force heraldry guidelines.

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MN/mn030a.jpg)

"Viking" is more than just the squadron name, but a tie to the 934th Airlift Wing - the head being from their emblem. An honor to carry, and it would be a shame to loose that history.

Just wanted to point that out, because I'm sure it wasn't considered in the design process.
You're absolutely correct that Viking is much more than a squadron name.   Because of this much consideration actually was given to the history of the current design.  As a matter of fact, I created an alternate design that includes an updated image of the Viking head, however, it's not in electronic form.  I created an electronic version of the design you saw because the symbolism in its representation seems to have great appeal with those that have seen it.  Nonetheless, it's a concept and it remains to be seen if we take any action towards change.   

It's interesting to read your statements on the history of the Viking patch.  As you know, the Viking logo is used by many organizations/businesses in the state, including that of our NFL football team, which to my knowledge developed the original version of the Viking logo (slight modifications are always made in an attempt to avoid copyright issues).  Perhaps part of the appeal with the new design is provides a bit of our own unique identity from that perspective.  In theory, were any historical tie to exist with 934th it would be with their 96th Airlift Squadron - "The Flying Vikings"; although no one I've spoken with has suggested/confirmed that.  What's more is that the Ft. Snelling Squadron actually meets on the base (Viking has never met there to my knowledge).   As a matter of fact, it seems very little of the heraldry in reference to this patch is known.  No one I've spoken with, including the longest standing members I know, had any real info about it.  Most is speculative at best.  If you have any documented info, I'd love to see it. 

Anyway, for comparison sake here is the 96th's patch:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/96th_Airlift_Squadron.jpg)

The 934th AW's patch is this:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d5/934th_Airlift_Wing.png/612px-934th_Airlift_Wing.png)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: CAPLAW on December 09, 2008, 04:02:53 PM
That NY 414 patch looks goofy, I hope you did not get it produced for uniform wear.  Try something more creative.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: jb512 on December 09, 2008, 08:41:06 PM
That NY 414 patch looks goofy, I hope you did not get it produced for uniform wear.  Try something more creative.

Are you the new resident troll now?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on December 09, 2008, 09:16:50 PM
Wing emblems are organizational emblems for the entire wing, including the headquarters element. Tabs for "wing staff" or separate wing staff emblems are unnecessary and an ego boost. Emblems should identify a unit, not be augmented as though being on wing staff makes someone more special.

So then we should get rid of all unit insignia, since that's the same argument.

Being on Wing staff isn't any more special, but its not any less special, either.  Why should they be denied the esprit-de-corps that comes with all the extra responsibility?

The Wing King gets a pin on his service dress uniforms, but beyond that, there's no identifier that a member is part of xx-001.

Why should there be? If you're on wing staff, you're assigned to the wing's headquarters, not to a subordinate squadron or group. Your heraldry is that of the wing as a whole, since you oversee the whole thing -- not that of a subordinate unit.

Wing commanders get a National Board insignia. That's not an indice of being a wing staff member, nor is wearing eagles beaks-forward on your shoulders. (Group and squadron commanders get commander badges, but they don't identify the individual units, either. But on the BDU and flight suit, squadron and group patches identify subordinate units. Wing staff members wear the wing patch, and that's all they need. They're not in a subordinate unit.)

If a wing staff can have its own emblem, then why not open the doors for individual directorates of a wing staff to do the same? Or have tabs? It's silly.

Your contention, taken to an extreme, is visually cacophonous at best, balkanizing at worst.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on December 10, 2008, 12:18:24 AM
That NY 414 patch looks goofy, I hope you did not get it produced for uniform wear.  Try something more creative.
No, the CAP emergency services patch is goofy. Actually, it's Pluto.

That's a patch that shoulda stayed in the doghouse. (Heck, they can't even get the eyes right on it....)

It's also redundant to ratings that are worn on the opposite breast on the BDU, for the most part, or on the pockets. I can, but don't, wear it.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pumbaa on December 10, 2008, 06:17:48 AM
OK guys.. it's a joke...

The Major is harassing me for the fun of it.. He actually helped with the design of our patch. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: AvroArrow on December 10, 2008, 11:47:44 AM
(http://profile.ak.facebook.com/object3/84/39/n39961331993_9733.jpg)

I joined 20 years since this patch was made, so I'm not too sure on what each element represents, but I'll find out and get back to you all  ;)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SilverEagle2 on December 12, 2008, 11:45:42 AM
Just bought two of my Squadrons last night. I kinda like it.

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/UT/ut003.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on December 12, 2008, 12:08:26 PM
Wing Staff should have their own insignia.
The couple wings that I am familiar with usually have a larger staff than most of the squadron's under them. Granted, this is where some "old timers" transfer their membership until death... But still, they are a unit and have their own unit structure and Chain of Command - they aren't ONLY to serve their subordinates.
Woah, I actually agreed with Eclipse on that one.  :o

Wing Patches?
Let's just say we continue to use the exactly how they are now, with no fortune telling of things to come. Trying not to rehash here, I've brought up before that they were created based on Army Division shoulder patches. I do think we can apply the USAF heraldry guidelines to them, while still keeping their origin of purpose in tact. At least we should, if lower echelons are expected to.
The current National shield patch now does follow these guidelines after any text was removed from the blue field.

Unfortunately I can't reference any documents on the Viking patch.
I might have some dates at home as far as when Bloomington Squadron existed, which I think was the earlier charter to Viking? Sorry, I can't confirm that from memory. In research, I'd start with Stan Kegel who can refer you to past  members or squadron familiars that might know more. My wife and sister-in-law were members there in '88-89, but they wouldn't know. If anyone still has contacts with the Corneilius family, they may know or may even had something to do with its design and the now departed relationship with the Flying Vikings.
A side note: I think that MIGHT be how we got the 2 "Blue Bird" busses in the mid-80's... which Viking Squadron staff took care of for the wing.
Addendum to post: St Louis Park Squadron was Viking's predicessor, and when Bloomington folded, those members [may have] joined in with them... Maybe to CREATE Viking? Dunno, have to check the dates. Also, aparently the busses were around since the 70s - and mechanically worked like it, heh - which was before Viking's charter. Thanks for the info, MM!

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MN/mn030agt.jpg)
Fits atop the older Viking Squadron patches - newer ones are slightly smaller.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on December 12, 2008, 12:13:21 PM
I joined 20 years since this patch was made, so I'm not too sure on what each element represents, but I'll find out and get back to you all  ;)

Ya, if you do please let me know. I'll post the info on the CAP Patches site.
There is a version of that patch tha uses lower-case letters too. I believe I have a printed photo of it somewhere, if you'ld like me to scan it for the squadron.

Thanks for keeping your unit history alive!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: JAFO78 on December 12, 2008, 01:28:55 PM
I was at Viking when Bloomington was folded into our squadron. Check with Col Theis as he was CO when I transferred to Viking from Valley. Viking was closer to me but I was given the wrong information as to location of Viking. Viking was at Am Legion, I was told it was at VFW, they didn't even know anything about CAP. Turns out they where only a few miles away from each other. 

I ended up at Valley cause a friend from work (Page Avjet) was in Valley.
This was cleared up when I went to my Level 1. With in a week I was transferred to Viking.

The rest is history.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Hill CAP on December 12, 2008, 08:14:30 PM
This is my favorite its the Advanced Ground Team Patch for Charleston Cadet Squadron MER-WV-013 my original squadron
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/wv/wv013b.jpg)

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on December 13, 2008, 01:44:02 AM
This is my favorite its the Advanced Ground Team Patch for Charleston Cadet Squadron MER-WV-013 my original squadron
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/wv/wv013b.jpg)

That's the first time I've looked at that patch in a loooong time. Now that I see it again, I wonder why the eagle looks like it's crawling downhill.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: IceNine on December 13, 2008, 02:24:34 AM
I finally found a company that quoted me a reasonable price for this one just a few days ago.  Once I get the sample run I will release my source.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on December 13, 2008, 03:11:50 AM
I finally found a company that quoted me a reasonable price for this one just a few days ago.  Once I get the sample run I will release my source.

You're not going to have problems with the fine details (AF Wings, Map of Illinois) on this patch?

Best piece of advice that I ever got about about patch design was "can you draw it in crayon and still have it look good?"

Embroidery does not do details well...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: AlphaSigOU on December 13, 2008, 08:57:09 AM
Best piece of advice that I ever got about about patch design was "can you draw it in crayon and still have it look good?"

Embroidery does not do details well...

Distilled to a plain and simple - yet hackneyed - term: KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid.

 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Trung Si Ma on December 13, 2008, 09:15:03 AM
PM me for a meaning of Blue Falcon, if you don't know what that means.   

Third Battalion, 325th Airborne Infantry Regiment, 82nd Airborne Division

1/325 = Red Falcons
2/325 = White Falcons
4/325 = Gold Falcons
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on December 13, 2008, 11:26:33 AM
You're not going to have problems with the fine details (AF Wings, Map of Illinois) on this patch?

The above is far from "fine detail" by the standards of the machines they have today.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on December 13, 2008, 01:13:24 PM
You're not going to have problems with the fine details (AF Wings, Map of Illinois) on this patch?

The above is far from "fine detail" by the standards of the machines they have today.

But does your typical small order patch place have one of those state of the art embroidering machines? Probably not.

It's usually the big boys like Vanguard who have them because they have the volume of orders needed to pay for them.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on December 13, 2008, 02:28:41 PM
You can down to <insert local name> fabric store and buy your own computer driven emboridery machine for under a grand. Eclipse is right, the fine details are no longer an issue these days.

Many - not all - embroidery shops just create the computer art and then send out the design to an Asian company to have patches made. It's when you want the design on a shirt or jacket or hat that they'll do it in house.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: IceNine on December 14, 2008, 12:26:14 AM
The company I am using does in house patch creation, and they are no small name.  I found them doing a google search.  They can put this exact design in the same detail on whatever I want.

There is no issue in any realm with the amount of "detail" or severe lack there of on this patch
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on December 14, 2008, 01:21:48 AM
I'm just saying that I have seen more then a few patch designs that looked great on paper but ended up looking not so good after they were made. And it was the fine details on the patch that were the most disappointing.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on December 14, 2008, 01:35:11 AM
I'm just saying that I have seen more then a few patch designs that looked great on paper but ended up looking not so good after they were made. And it was the fine details on the patch that were the most disappointing.

Agreed, but it depends purely on the vendor and should come out when you see the proofs.

My original patch vendor did a beautiful job, we had our coin vendor try them and the inhaled air at a very high rate.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: A.Member on December 14, 2008, 01:56:23 AM
I finally found a company that quoted me a reasonable price for this one just a few days ago.  Once I get the sample run I will release my source.

You're not going to have problems with the fine details (AF Wings, Map of Illinois) on this patch?
Because we don't have any current regulations around patch designs, we are not required to abide by the USAF heraldry guidelines; although the consensus here seems to be that we should.  However, if adhering to USAF heraldry guidelines was was part of the goal, then this patch does not seem to adhere based on the inclusion of the map.   FWIW, AFI 84-105 (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/AFI84-105_060201.pdf) states (emphasis mine):
Quote
3.7.2.6. Don’t include symbols or caricatures associated with foreign nations, extremist groups,
games of chance, or a specific geographical location.

Just an observation.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on December 14, 2008, 10:29:11 AM
One might wonder whether that clause relates to including a map in the patch (like the squadron patch being discussed) or an identifiable landmark identified with a specific geographic area (Mount Rushmore, for example).  But, seeing as how most CAP unit names include the name of the town they're in, this particular part of the AF heraldry guidelines may not work very well for us. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on December 14, 2008, 01:32:42 PM
The Air Force, or at least the Air National Guard, doesn't do that good of job following that part of the reg either.
Many Air National Guard patches show exactly where the unit is from because they use symbols and such from their state. i.e. many Texas units incorporate the Texas flag into their patch and California units tend to have a California Brown Bear.

 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Mustang on January 12, 2009, 05:21:34 AM
Rock County Composite Squadron. GLR-WI-008
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/WI/wi008.jpg)

You know, it really chafes my hide to see such blatant plagiarizing when it comes to official CAP patches.

(http://www.usafpatches.com/photo/albums/wpw-20051204/0008sosse.jpg)

Come on people, are you really that creatively challenged?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Mustang on January 12, 2009, 05:36:02 AM
The Air Force, or at least the Air National Guard, doesn't do that good of job following that part of the reg either.
Many Air National Guard patches show exactly where the unit is from because they use symbols and such from their state. i.e. many Texas units incorporate the Texas flag into their patch and California units tend to have a California Brown Bear.

Yeah that:

(http://www.usafpatches.com/photo/albums/userpics/10814/151st_Air_Refueling_Wing.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on January 12, 2009, 12:19:10 PM
Rock County Composite Squadron. GLR-WI-008
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/WI/wi008.jpg)
You know, it really chafes my hide to see such blatant plagiarizing when it comes to official CAP patches.
(http://www.usafpatches.com/photo/albums/wpw-20051204/0008sosse.jpg)
Come on people, are you really that creatively challenged?
(http://www.squatorange.com/images/batman-logo-large-view.gif)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on January 12, 2009, 12:40:14 PM
Please tell me you're kidding...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on January 12, 2009, 01:04:45 PM
If you're telling ME that, Eclipse -- how many people will recognize that Rock County patch from the Air Force patch it apes, or from -- yes, really -- Batman?

Cadets aren't going to know the former, but they'll recognize the latter right off. The colors are what do it more than the shape.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on January 12, 2009, 01:21:48 PM
If you're telling ME that, Eclipse -- how many people will recognize that Rock County patch from the Air Force patch it apes, or from -- yes, really -- Batman?

Cadets aren't going to know the former, but they'll recognize the latter right off. The colors are what do it more than the shape.

I've never seen either and did not make the batman connection.

Its quite obviously come sort of bird in flight.  Warner brothers does not own the color yellow or curving bird shapes.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on January 12, 2009, 01:31:25 PM
My point is that it's close enough, thanks to the colors and general shape, that I'm sure there are some people who thought "Batman" when they saw the patch before they even thought "blackbirds."

You don't have to have an exact match to jog someone's memory. That's how cheap ripoffs of Nike shoes get sold with near-swooshes on the side.

You're right that Warner Bros. doesn't own the rights to that logo -- DC Comics does.  ;D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ThorntonOL on January 13, 2009, 01:18:28 AM
My unit's current patch is listed on one of these patch websites for cap patches, we had a digital "patch" that was used before it mainly for the squadron use, but it was said to be to hard make into real patchs, because of size and the colors used, still woud like to see it done but it can wait, we have a decent one now and that one would be for old times sake.
By the way I don't care if I buy the "knockoffs" in K-mart, I would rather buy 2-6 of those than a pair of $130 running shoes. I wear those buggers out in three months.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on January 14, 2009, 06:49:30 PM
It's from the 8th Special Operations Squadron and other associated units...
http://www2.hurlburt.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=3481

Maybe one of their members was a part of them? Who knows.

We have MANY, MANY patches that mimic or encorprate emblems from all branches of the Armed Services, NASA, etc. You can blame the unit for not being original or creative... sure. But I guess the more important thing is that IF the similarity was intentional, was there also an effort made to get permission?

In regards to Batman... yah, I didn't draw the conection either and I'm somewhat of a fan. I guess the same type of people that can see it that way are the type that labeled our ES patch the "Pluto patch" or the 1960's Senior breast patch the "Coca Cola" patch. It's alright though.... the squadron might even call it the "Batman patch".

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: chanson1 on January 19, 2009, 08:42:54 PM
http://96th.glr.cap.gov

upper corner of the page, is an old squadron patch.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on January 21, 2009, 12:28:09 PM
Quote from: chanson1
http://96th.glr.cap.gov  -  upper corner of the page, is an old squadron patch.

Here ya go....

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/OH/oh096.jpg)

And the "Squadron BX" still works...
http://www.cafepress.com/96thcap (http://www.cafepress.com/96thcap)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: CAPLAW on January 21, 2009, 12:37:55 PM
Good looking patch


Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ltcmark on January 22, 2009, 06:20:11 PM
GLR-IN-184 patch.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3466/3218139971_c9e0fe906f.jpg?v=0)


Here is the meaning of all the elements:

Deidhinn A Cion – Gaelic phrase meaning ‘For the Love’ – we adopted this motto because of the professionalism and volunteerism of the organization and the dedication of our members to give without any financial reward

Bear – representing the history of Shelbyville and a tribute to the author Charles Major, the silver background represents Sincerity and Peace

Flur-De-Les – representing our faith in God, the blue background represents our Strength and Loyalty to God

Red Cross – representing the lives we save and the humanitarian aspects of our mission

Compass Rose – the symbol of the pathfinder’s – the black dividing line shows constancy so that we may always be on the right path, the maroon signifies our military heritage and that we may be victorious in our mission, the white for the peacefulness of our missions

Shamrock – adopted as a symbol of our squadron heritage, it has the meaning of perpetuity, longevity and loyalty of our members, the silver background represents Sincerity and Peace

Laurel Wreath  – symbol of peace with the green of the Wreath representing Hope and loyalty of love for our fellow man

Blue Background – Strength and loyalty of our members

Gold Ring – Generosity and the excellence required of our members
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on January 22, 2009, 06:49:29 PM
Looks nice.  How does it come out on cloth (seems a little complex)?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: chanson1 on January 24, 2009, 09:38:10 PM
Quote from: chanson1
http://96th.glr.cap.gov  -  upper corner of the page, is an old squadron patch.

Here ya go....

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/OH/oh096.jpg)

And the "Squadron BX" still works...
http://www.cafepress.com/96thcap (http://www.cafepress.com/96thcap)

Yes our BX still works. 96th.glr.cap.gov :-)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: IceNine on February 09, 2009, 10:29:40 PM
I finally found a company that quoted me a reasonable price for this one just a few days ago.  Once I get the sample run I will release my source.

Side by side.  See I told it it wasn't too much detail.

FYI- I used Butlerpatches.com  turn around was 20 days, price was 1.69 per patch fully embroidered.  I'm very happy and will most certainly use them in the future.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 09, 2009, 11:33:49 PM
Ice - you've got a draft version of the logo above, otherwise they look good.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: IceNine on February 11, 2009, 06:27:59 PM
I finally found a company that quoted me a reasonable price for this one just a few days ago.  Once I get the sample run I will release my source.

Side by side.  See I told it it wasn't too much detail.

FYI- I used Butlerpatches.com  turn around was 20 days, price was 1.69 per patch fully embroidered.  I'm very happy and will most certainly use them in the future.

Yeah well, now that I see that old one I'm even more glad I made the change.



Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Chappie on February 13, 2009, 02:09:37 PM
Here is the logo for the Pacific Region Chaplain Service.  It will be made into a patch shortly.

Explanation:

The shape selected was the USAF/CAP Command Shield depicting our culture; belonging to the organization.  The yellow (or) outline speaks of loyalty to our mission and the honor that is bestowed upon the appointment to the CAP Chaplain Service

The crest is that of the USAF/CAP Chaplain service.  This speaks of our mission.  The rays of yellow (or) depict our pursuit of excellence in what we do and the wisdom that is shared to those to whom we serve. The hands of silver (argent) represent charity and faith – that which we offer to those we serve.   The field of blue (azure) speaks of devotion and strength.  The black (sable) outline depicts dignity and determination.  Attributes in which we conduct our service.  The banner in white (argent) represents integrity and purity.  While based on the CAP motto, “Semper Vigilans”, additional words were added to form the motto of the PCR Chaplain Service: “Semper Vigilans ad Dei Gloriam” (“Always Vigilant for the Glory of God”) which reminds us of the “what”, the “how” and the “why” of our ministry.  These words are in black (sable) as well as the banner’s outline.  Again signifying the determination and dignity in which we are called and committed to serve.  The six stars of blue (azure) and white (argent) represent the six wings that comprise the Pacific Region.  Again the colors speak of devotion and integrity. Notice that Wing abbreviations have been removed symbolizing our collective service as a team rather than individual Wings, emphasizing our service together.  The crest, stars, and motto are in a field of red (gules) which depicts passion.  It is a passion for service to God and to others that motivates us to perform our mission.

Finally, the scroll is a field of blue (azure) and letters of white (argent) that corresponds to the six stars displays our name: Pacific Region Chaplain Service.

The logo speaks of our culture, our mission and our commitment to serve God in our service to others.  That service is done in a spirit of loyalty to one another and in devotion to the One who called us to serve.  We do so as people of integrity, in an attitude of vigilance, determined to pursue excellence so that we can provide quality service to others and in doing so, bring glory to God.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on February 13, 2009, 06:50:09 PM
I think you've got a FIRST there, Chappie.
If available, count me in for a half-dozen when you get them made up!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SilverEagle2 on February 13, 2009, 07:38:32 PM
The scoll lettering needs to be fixed a little IMHO. More like the lettering in the center where it is more square to the ribbon. Good looking otherwise.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: fyrfitrmedic on February 13, 2009, 07:42:53 PM
 This may sound like an odd choice of words, but that's a pretty patch. Very nicely done.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: IceNine on February 13, 2009, 09:27:02 PM
The scoll lettering needs to be fixed a little IMHO. More like the lettering in the center where it is more square to the ribbon. Good looking otherwise.

+1 makes the words look natural, instead of all scrunched together.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 13, 2009, 09:44:17 PM
The scoll lettering needs to be fixed a little IMHO. More like the lettering in the center where it is more square to the ribbon. Good looking otherwise.

+1 makes the words look natural, instead of all scrunched together.

-1 I think it looks fine as-is, but if anything the tips of the letters to center should be more pointed, not less.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on February 13, 2009, 10:47:55 PM
Where will the PCR chaplain patch be worn since it is not actually a unit patch?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Chappie on February 14, 2009, 03:33:01 AM
The patch will be sewn on polo shirts that the Chaplain Service Region Staff College staff wear as casual wear in our informal meetings.  It is also a commemorative patch.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 21, 2009, 07:41:10 PM
This one approved just this afternoon...

(http://captalk.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=572.0;attach=3163;image)

Base Design:
Standard “disk with rockers” as per an emblem for a non-headquarters unit.

Background (sky):

USAF blue as per standard. Also represents the waters of Lake Michigan which boarders the East side of Lake County as well as the Great Lakes Naval Station where the Squadron meets.

Motto:
“SERVITIUM ANTE SE” (Latin) translated means “Service Before Self”.

Ships Wheel:
A derivative of the ship’s wheel featured on the insignia of Naval Station Great Lakes – the physical location of Lake County Composite Squadron – intended as an homage to the ongoing support provided by the U.S. Navy to CAP.  Permission for the use of the derivative art is on file.

State Outline:
White in the shape of the State of Illinois with location indicator utilizing the logo of Lake County, Illinois. The white State of Illinois also ties into the Group 22 insignia.

Prop:
Red traditional CAP aircraft prop indicating the three missions of CAP.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Major Carrales on February 21, 2009, 08:06:35 PM
This one approved just this afternoon...

(http://captalk.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=572.0;attach=3163;image)


Kudos on the design and approval!!! Looks good.  I may have to buy one from you.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: A.Member on February 21, 2009, 09:02:01 PM
This one approved just this afternoon...

(http://captalk.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=572.0;attach=3163;image)

Is that for the CAP naval division?  (j/k)  ;)  :)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on February 21, 2009, 10:02:10 PM
Looks great! Be sure and post the heraldry if one was written up.

Aside from squadron's name, seeing the ship wheel lends me to believe the unit might be near the famous Lake Michigan pier? My IL geography is fuzzy, so the location marker doesn't help, heh....

Hook me up with three if you can! And add a little ching on for the squadron's supply/logistics box.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on February 21, 2009, 11:35:44 PM
I updated the heraldry above...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: fyrfitrmedic on March 04, 2009, 07:03:43 PM
 My home unit's patch is in production at Butler as I type this; minor changes were made to comply with present-day AF heraldic rules.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: fyrfitrmedic on March 19, 2009, 09:57:57 PM
After what seems like forever, my home unit's patch design is finally a patch:

(http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs031.snc1/2658_1120433771893_1258524891_30374014_288054_n.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on March 20, 2009, 12:47:47 PM
That design has become so familiar seeing the computer art version of it for so long! Good to see it finally made it to the loom, and I'm sure your members are pleased.

Would any be available for a donation to the squadron?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: fyrfitrmedic on March 20, 2009, 06:28:28 PM
That design has become so familiar seeing the computer art version of it for so long! Good to see it finally made it to the loom, and I'm sure your members are pleased.

Would any be available for a donation to the squadron?

Everybody's quite pleased - Butler provided great service.

Available? Sure - PM me.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: biomed441 on April 03, 2009, 01:46:56 PM
I kinda like these *cough* my squadron *cough* ;D


(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a94/flyboy8/Patches.bmp)

For those of you who don't know, the one on the right is the "subdued" one we use for BDU's.

I have to agree, I think this is the best squadron patch in the world! Though I happen to be bias as I was on the comittee that voted on that design. Unfortunately I left the squadron before the patch was put into production.  That was over 7 years ago. Think you could send me one? ;)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: biomed441 on April 03, 2009, 05:06:01 PM
Check this site out. This has quite a large listing of patches that squadrons of the CAP use. If looking for examples or ideas to use, I'm sure you can find something here that could help.

http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on April 09, 2009, 12:34:53 AM
Well...here it is for public opinion. New patch design. Commander likes it, C/CC like and a few cadets that have seen it like it, just need to get buy in from everyone else in the unit and the wing king, of course.

Quote
Boulle – Norman Memorial Cadet Squadron Patch Heraldry

The reason for leaving the name on the top rocker as just ‘Boulle-Norman Memorial’ gives the unit the ability to outlast changes in our structure, whether the situation dictates we are a flight, a squadron, cadet or senior or a composite unit.

Latin Saying:

“citius altius fortius” - faster, higher, stronger.    It is the motto of the modern Olympics.

Chosen because we should always strive to excel; to be faster, higher and stronger!

Design Elements:

Griffin:
In heraldry, the griffin's amalgamation of lion and eagle gains in courage and boldness, and it is always drawn as a powerful fierce monster. It is used to denote strength and military courage and leadership. Griffins are portrayed with a lion's body, an eagle's head, long ears, and an eagle's claws, to indicate that one must combine intelligence and strength.
The Griffin also ties us to the Grand Rapids area as one of the best AHL hockey teams in the league resides here as the farm team for the Detroit Red Wings, which in and of themselves are one of the best teams in hockey and are always striving for excellence.

Nautical Stars:
Besides the ties to high ranking military symbolism, in Michigan we are surrounded by the Great Lakes. The two stars at the top represent each of the members this squadron is named after, Deborah Boulle and John Norman, two Metropolitan Composite Squadron members who passed away in 1988. Deborah’s father was asked to start a cadet squadron and the cadets chose the name to remember the pair’s dedication to Civil Air Patrol.

The remaining 4 stars represent the 4 core values that we hold true in CAP, Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence, and Respect.

Colors:
Red:  Strength; because together as a unit we a strong.
Gold: Generosity; represents our volunteer service to our community, state and nation.
Black: Constancy; represents our diehard nature to be steadfast in our missions, whatever they may be.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: USADOD on April 09, 2009, 01:26:47 AM
Detroit 100th "Red Tails" Composite Squadron
Modeled after the Tuskegee Airman

(http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww57/glrmi100/Logo/mi100ptch.png)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Gunner C on April 09, 2009, 06:43:54 AM
Well...here it is for public opinion. New patch design. Commander likes it, C/CC like and a few cadets that have seen it like it, just need to get buy in from everyone else in the unit and the wing king, of course.

Quote
Thoughts?
That is one of the best CAP squadron patches I've seen.  Great job - really like the heraldry!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on April 09, 2009, 08:30:22 AM
Well...here it is for public opinion. New patch design. Commander likes it, C/CC like and a few cadets that have seen it like it, just need to get buy in from everyone else in the unit and the wing king, of course.

Quote
Thoughts?
That is one of the best CAP squadron patches I've seen.  Great job - really like the heraldry!

If we want to be picky, the name should be on the bottom rocker, and there shouldn't be text in the field (though I've violated that myself).

Otherwise, very nice and certainly memorable.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on April 09, 2009, 09:38:21 AM
That is one of the best CAP squadron patches I've seen.  Great job - really like the heraldry!

Thanks!

Having a new patch for the unit has been something on my 'to-do' list for quite a while. While I think I have a keen eye and some creativity, I'm not as much the graphic designer as I wished I was, I certainly have a ways to go before I'm anywhere near as good as Tedda.

If we want to be picky, the name should be on the bottom rocker, and there shouldn't be text in the field (though I've violated that myself).

Otherwise, very nice and certainly memorable.

Thanks Bob for the pointers, I can certainly change things around, since nothing has officially been submitted yet. I orginally had the unit charter in the bottom rocker, but it just didn't look right. Tried it in the top rocker, but that made the text smaller than i wanted it.

Sure there is text in the field, but the big thing for me was having the right shape for the patch, so many CAP squadrons/flights use shield designs and that irks me. Don't get me wrong, while I think the shield with the scroll is a nice patch shape, if we're going to mirror our parent service in how they do things, patch heraldry is something we should also follow.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on April 09, 2009, 09:57:16 AM
Quote
If we want to be picky

I'm definately NOT picky, but I saw that you might be open/able to make some changes still. Bob already highlighted the text in the field and flipping the tabs suggestions.

But the other thing I wanted to mention - and it's a VERY easy fix to this design- is that the Griffen should face to the wearer's right. It's a "directional element" guideline for anyting that isn't symetrical.

The heraldry description sounds great, thanks for sharing it!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on April 09, 2009, 10:03:25 AM
Detroit 100th "Red Tails" Composite Squadron
Modeled after the Tuskegee Airman(http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww57/glrmi100/Logo/mi100ptch.png)

Has this design been manufacturered into a patch yet? I don't think I've seen it before, and of course I would LOVE to purchase a few from the squadron if available!

Here's another Tuskegee-inspired unit patch, where a former squadron commander was actually a member of the 99th...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/ne/ne089.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on April 09, 2009, 11:09:49 AM
Ok, After getting advice from Bob and Ace, here is the 'tweaked up' version.  ;)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on April 09, 2009, 11:26:04 AM
Nice - looks much less "busy" in the field.  That orange is going to really show up against the uniform.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on April 09, 2009, 11:44:37 AM
Nice - looks much less "busy" in the field.  That orange is going to really show up against the uniform.

That's actually red, the surrounding gold color seems to give it an orange hue though. Aside from the meaning of the colors as described; red, black and gold tie to the Germanic roots of a good part of the population of the west Michigan area (as well as Dutch and Polish).

I can't wait to see this in thread, and more importantly, on our uniforms.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on April 09, 2009, 11:53:25 AM
Sweet!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: pixelwonk on April 09, 2009, 12:40:24 PM
Ok, After getting advice from Bob and Ace, here is the 'tweaked up' version.  ;)

The text in your bottom rocker is crooked
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on April 09, 2009, 04:51:48 PM
I would recommend putting "squadron" in there, or at least SQ.  With the wording the way it is, it looks like its a patch for some sort of memorial in Norman. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on April 09, 2009, 04:55:40 PM
I would recommend putting "squadron" in there, or at least SQ.  With the wording the way it is, it looks like its a patch for some sort of memorial in Norman. 

Because...

Quote
The reason for leaving the name on the bottom rocker as just ‘Boulle-Norman Memorial’ gives the unit the ability to outlast changes in our structure, whether the situation dictates we are a flight, a squadron, cadet or senior or a composite unit.

That's why.  ;D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on April 09, 2009, 05:00:24 PM
I understood the reasoning the first time, I just think it is sort of silly.  The unit is what it is at any one time.  Military units change their names and types all the time and when that happens, they change the patch. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on April 09, 2009, 05:05:35 PM
I understood the reasoning the first time, I just think it is sort of silly.  The unit is what it is at any one time.  Military units change their names and types all the time and when that happens, they change the patch. 

I agree - in the context in which it is important , everyone will know that squadron is a given.

With a unit insignia you're looking for 10-foot identifiers and graphic shorthand, not a charter document.

Edit: (Turns out I didn't agree).
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on April 09, 2009, 05:24:05 PM
Quote
I agree - in the context in which it is important , everyone will know that squadron is a given.
Actually it makes it worse.  You don't know whether it is cadet, composite, or senior and you don't know whether it is a flight or a squadron.  The people in the unit will know, but no one else will have a clue.  Since few liked my idea of dropping cadet/senior/composite from squadron names, we'll have to go with that. 

Given the length of the name, I think you would need to also use the top rocker as part of the name and drop the motto.

A squadron with this long a name is a good argument for going to a standard numeric system as does the military. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on April 09, 2009, 05:36:21 PM
Quote
I agree - in the context in which it is important , everyone will know that squadron is a given.
Actually it makes it worse.  You don't know whether it is cadet, composite, or senior and you don't know whether it is a flight or a squadron.  The people in the unit will know, but no one else will have a clue.  Since few liked my idea of dropping cadet/senior/composite from squadron names, we'll have to go with that. 

That's a part of the logic for doing that. To me it's not important that we designate ourselves as a cadet or composite unit, or a flight or squadron. It doesn't matter, the patch is a unique visual identifier, a symbol of pride for the unit, IMHO.

Given the length of the name, I think you would need to also use the top rocker as part of the name and drop the motto.

Not doing that, the motto is what helps to create that common sense of 'Esprit de corps' among our members.

A squadron with this long a name is a good argument for going to a standard numeric system as does the military. 

But that's just the thing, we are not a military unit, we're CAP, and our name is part of our identity and pride. We're more than just one of a thousand operating units in the military.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on April 09, 2009, 05:56:43 PM
Quote
I agree - in the context in which it is important , everyone will know that squadron is a given.
Actually it makes it worse.  You don't know whether it is cadet, composite, or senior and you don't know whether it is a flight or a squadron.  The people in the unit will know, but no one else will have a clue.  Since few liked my idea of dropping cadet/senior/composite from squadron names, we'll have to go with that. 

Why does that matter?  Odds are you don't need to know, and if you do, just ask.  If a cadet is wearing it, you probably have your answer.

Also, since the vast majority of those who will ever see the patch are likely from the same state, they will know.

(turns out I didn't agree.)   ;D

In the CAP context, getting the insignia to be a disc with rockers, motto on the top, name on the bottom, is about as standard as we really need to get, and would be lights years from where we are today if we were able to just get there.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on April 09, 2009, 06:42:06 PM
So the shape and configuration is more important than accurately reflecting the actual name of the danged unit?  I'm all for patch standardization, but somehow I assumed that it went without saying that the name of the unit would be used rather than something else. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: pixelwonk on April 09, 2009, 06:54:59 PM
What, have all the windmills been tilted at already?  Geez!

I'd bet that it's the unit's call (not to mention Wing's) on what they want on their own danged patch.  Is it truly all that crucial to enforce nebulous guidelines for a CAP unit patch that's pretty squared away?  Really?

Some folks really need to go play outside.

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Chief2009 on April 30, 2009, 11:47:55 AM
What do you guys think of this?
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1049/patch.th.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=patch.jpg)

Base Design:
Standard “disk with rockers” as per an emblem for a non-headquarters unit.

Background (sky):
USAF blue as per standard. Also represents the waters of the Illinois River.

Motto:
“OFFICIO VOCANTE PARATI” (Latin) translated means “Ready When Called”.

Chevrons:
AF Yellow as per standard. Also represents the three missions of CAP

State Outline:
Blue in the shape of the State of Illinois with a star at our location.

Circle, Triangle, Prop:
Traditional CAP logo representing and honoring the past members of CAP.

DN
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 01, 2009, 11:52:41 AM
Simple, clean and clear... yet unique.

I'm pretty sure the directional elements are correct, using the band of chevrons to devide the field in two parts with a standard each.

Haven't seen that motto used yet on a CAP emblem either.

Like it!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on May 01, 2009, 04:06:01 PM
I'm not a big fan of that much white, but that's just a personal taste.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on May 01, 2009, 04:09:18 PM
SQ seems to be the AF's preferred abbreviation for squadron on patches rather than SQDN. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: arajca on May 01, 2009, 06:35:37 PM
What is the squadron's charterd name - IL VALLEY or ILLINOIS VALLEY? It is inappropriate to abbreviate the name while leaving the type full length.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Chief2009 on May 01, 2009, 11:22:46 PM
It's Illinois Valley.

RiverAux, you're right. Can't believe I missed that.

Ok, I'm officially stumped. Since I hadn't heard arajca's statement before, any ideas? Illinois Valley Composite takes up a lot of space, don't want to compress it too much.

DN
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on May 01, 2009, 11:42:42 PM
I think he was suggesting that you abbreviate Composite rather than Illinois.  I don't think he meant "type" in terms of the size of the letters. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on May 01, 2009, 11:50:12 PM
ILLINOIS VALLEY COMP SQ would work in the space allotted.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: arajca on May 02, 2009, 12:08:14 AM
I think he was suggesting that you abbreviate Composite rather than Illinois.  I don't think he meant "type" in terms of the size of the letters.
Correct
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: CadetProgramGuy on May 02, 2009, 12:44:03 AM
Clean, concise, doesn't look like garbage.

Great Job!!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Chief2009 on May 02, 2009, 01:14:57 AM
Yeah I knew what arajca was saying, just couldn't make it sound that way. :D

Thank you PHall, I should have thought of that. That's what I get for trying to think this late.

The last thing to nail down is the size, but at least I can get the approval process started.

DN
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on May 02, 2009, 08:36:09 PM
Just lose "Composite" - its irrelevant in the context of an insignia.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: IceNine on May 03, 2009, 11:38:56 AM
Yeah I knew what arajca was saying, just couldn't make it sound that way. :D

Thank you PHall, I should have thought of that. That's what I get for trying to think this late.

The last thing to nail down is the size, but at least I can get the approval process started.

DN

A lot of the units in the wing with that shape get the 4 inch patch.  3 inch for shields.

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Capt M. Sherrod on May 15, 2009, 12:27:40 PM
Here is the recently approved design I came up with for Hanscom.  I hope you all like it.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on May 16, 2009, 08:07:35 PM
A do see a few nods to the old patch in your design....

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/MA/ma043.jpg)

How soon does the squadron plan to get the newly approved design made up?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Capt M. Sherrod on May 17, 2009, 03:09:35 PM
The order has been placed with the manufacturer already.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on May 21, 2009, 10:38:44 AM
'Fresh off the boat' from Hong Kong!  ;D Got them through Patches4Less.... great price and Luke is a great guy to deal with, I'll be working with them again!

(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs010.snc1/4187_201302000436_589680436_7001407_1709702_n.jpg)

They look so much better in person, the material really shimmers in the light! I'm happy!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on May 24, 2009, 08:49:56 PM
Nice looking patch though ideally the unit would be on the bottom rocker with the motto on top -- at least thats the AF practice.  Not technically required for CAP though. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on May 24, 2009, 09:59:49 PM
Nice looking patch though ideally the unit would be on the bottom rocker with the motto on top -- at least thats the AF practice.  Not technically required for CAP though.

Thanks.

Man...Potato, Potäto, I'm just glad to have a patch finally! This process has been at least a year in the making. ;D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on May 24, 2009, 10:54:28 PM
[with tongue firmly in cheek]

But you don't have your charter number on it! :o

[tongue removed from cheek]
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Hill CAP on May 29, 2009, 10:52:42 AM
St Augustine Senior Squadron is making the change from a Senior Squadron to a Composite Squadron so time to redesign our patch.

I would like to thank Capt Chuck Corway for his hard work on this patch. We designated that we wanted the St Augustine Lighthouse and the GA-8 Airvan.  left the rest up to the good Capt.

This is the first design and is being submitted to the Sq Commander next Week. Some changes may be made
.
(http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v4723/51/18/583036441/n583036441_2402445_4440514.jpg)

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on May 29, 2009, 11:18:01 AM
(http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v4723/51/18/583036441/n583036441_2402445_4440514.jpg)

Not bad at all, nice elements, good work Capt Corway.

Some suggestions though. Shrink the rockers down, about a 1/3, that way they are a little more proportional with the center circle.

Also, have someone render the image of the lighthouse so the perspective is straight on. With the way it is now, the image gives you the idea that you are looking up at it, and then when you have the GA-8, it's a perfect side view; kind of hard on the eyes. Either that or change the GA-8 so it's matching the orientation of the lighthouse.

The field could use a couple more elements. Consider more of the area's history, which seems rich according to what I just researched, add a few more nautical elements, such as nautical stars, or canon's from 1800 era ships.

My .02 cents.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: AlphaSigOU on May 29, 2009, 02:23:57 PM
Thanks for the suggestions... As it was mentioned it's still a work in progress, and may change after review.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Ozzy on June 12, 2009, 08:47:31 PM
How about an alternative wing patch? NYWg members that complete LIGSAR School can wear the patch in place of the NY Wing patch.
(http://www.ligsar.org/gsarpatchcap.bmp)

My squadron's patch though is pretty standard and clean cut... :
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/oldwhitewolf/sqpic.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Cecil DP on June 12, 2009, 09:47:44 PM
'Fresh off the boat' from Hong Kong!  ;D Got them through Patches4Less.... great price and Luke is a great guy to deal with, I'll be working with them again!

(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs010.snc1/4187_201302000436_589680436_7001407_1709702_n.jpg)

They look so much better in person, the material really shimmers in the light! I'm happy!

But Hong Kong is in a Communist Country!!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BrandonKea on June 12, 2009, 10:09:16 PM
Ozzy, that LIGSAR patch is pretty sweet, you have any laying around you'd be willing to swap for?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on June 13, 2009, 11:53:25 AM
St Augustine Senior Squadron is making the change from a Senior Squadron to a Composite Squadron so time to redesign our patch.

I would like to thank Capt Chuck Corway for his hard work on this patch. We designated that we wanted the St Augustine Lighthouse and the GA-8 Airvan.  left the rest up to the good Capt.

This is the first design and is being submitted to the Sq Commander next Week. Some changes may be made
.
(http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v4723/51/18/583036441/n583036441_2402445_4440514.jpg)
Maybe its just me, but I would point the airplane in the opposite direction.  For some reason I get the impression it is flying in the "wrong" direction. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Cecil DP on June 13, 2009, 12:17:55 PM
St Augustine Senior Squadron is making the change from a Senior Squadron to a Composite Squadron so time to redesign our patch.

I would like to thank Capt Chuck Corway for his hard work on this patch. We designated that we wanted the St Augustine Lighthouse and the GA-8 Airvan.  left the rest up to the good Capt.

This is the first design and is being submitted to the Sq Commander next Week. Some changes may be made
.
(http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v4723/51/18/583036441/n583036441_2402445_4440514.jpg)
Maybe its just me, but I would point the airplane in the opposite direction.  For some reason I get the impression it is flying in the "wrong" direction.

The Airport is North of the lighthouse
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BTCS1* on June 13, 2009, 01:24:08 PM
How about an alternative wing patch? NYWg members that complete LIGSAR School can wear the patch in place of the NY Wing patch.
(http://www.ligsar.org/gsarpatchcap.bmp)

My squadron's patch though is pretty standard and clean cut... :
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/oldwhitewolf/sqpic.jpg)
I LOVE THIS PATCH! LOL. Can it replace the NYWG patch in NYCG as well as LIG? I was planing on going next year if i can.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Ozzy on June 13, 2009, 05:04:34 PM
Ozzy, that LIGSAR patch is pretty sweet, you have any laying around you'd be willing to swap for?
I'll see if I can find one. I personally don't have one myself, I haven't been able to get to a LIGSAR academy... it's always been during some event or class I have to do. However, once I get one that I wouldn't be posting on my uniform, I'll send one to you.

My little joke about the patch is that since NYWg's patch doesn't have Long Island on it (Take a look!) We, at LI group decided to succeed from New York and make our own wing! We do have enough cadets, seniors, and the structure to do it :-) And We'd actually would probably be bigger then some wings already  ;)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on June 13, 2009, 06:19:27 PM
Ozzy, that LIGSAR patch is pretty sweet, you have any laying around you'd be willing to swap for?
I'll see if I can find one. I personally don't have one myself, I haven't been able to get to a LIGSAR academy... it's always been during some event or class I have to do. However, once I get one that I wouldn't be posting on my uniform, I'll send one to you.

My little joke about the patch is that since NYWg's patch doesn't have Long Island on it (Take a look!) We, at LI group decided to succeed from New York and make our own wing! We do have enough cadets, seniors, and the structure to do it :-) And We'd actually would probably be bigger then some wings already  ;)

You can really mess with their heads and become the Long Island Group 8 of California Wing! ;)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BTCS1* on June 13, 2009, 06:33:36 PM
LI isn't  on the NYWG patch? I think its on mine, maybe they modified it.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DC on June 13, 2009, 08:08:16 PM
Where did you get yours? The one Vanguard sells doesn't have Long Island, see link:

http://www.vanguardmil.com/store/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=7158 (http://www.vanguardmil.com/store/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=7158)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BTCS1* on June 13, 2009, 08:10:28 PM
Vanguard, must be imagining it, so used to seeing maps of NY with LI. And LIG better not leave us! ISP is practicly the CAP ES capital of NY!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Gunner C on June 14, 2009, 03:19:39 AM
How about an alternative wing patch? NYWg members that complete LIGSAR School can wear the patch in place of the NY Wing patch.
(http://www.ligsar.org/gsarpatchcap.bmp)

Group and above should be a shield with a scroll underneath.  But that's only if you're going to follow the AF heraldry that's been talked about before in this thread.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: fyrfitrmedic on June 14, 2009, 09:33:13 AM
 The shape and color scheme of the LIGSAR patch kinda remind me of NJWG's GSAR parch. The AFRCC angel is a nice touch, IMHO.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: suldjerboybishop on June 14, 2009, 02:40:47 PM
 So in know this may be tooting my own squadron's horn a little bit, but SWR-TX-388, or Phoenix Composite of Fort Worth, Texas, has an outstanding patch that actually depicts the squadron. The patch has the shape of Texas with the mythical Phoenix rising from the ashes on it. This is really what our squadron has done in the last year or two. I just thought I'd throw that out there to give our squadron a little bit of popularity on CAP Talk.

http://incountry.us/cappatches/TX/notmine/tx388.jpg

--
           Best Regards,
           C/SSgt, Daniel Bishop
           Bravo 1st EL, Personnel Officer
           TX388 Phoenix Composite Sq.,
           Group II, Texas Wing,
           SW Region, Civil Air Patrol
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PhoenixRisen on June 14, 2009, 07:03:24 PM
...with the mythical Phoenix rising from the ashes on it. This is really what our squadron has done in the last year or two.

That was the main focus on my original squadron's patch -- for the same reason, as well.  The squadron went through a large period of inactivity, and was later revamped (went as far as to earn some pretty high honors within the wing).
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on June 15, 2009, 03:20:21 PM
SWR-TX-388, or Phoenix Composite of Fort Worth, Texas, has an outstanding patch
Can you hook a brother up with a copy? I've only found the image you linked to so far, and I'd love to preserve an actual copy!

Here's roughly what the New York Wing patch would look like IF Long Island were included...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/NY/history/nywg.gif)
Sadly, the LI area has never appeared in the the map outline on any documented patch. For what it's worth, here is the NYWG patch's history if you've never read it: http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/NY/nywg.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/NY/nywg.html)

Some folks in New Jersey are also used to being slighted in this manner, as finding a NJWG patch that includes Cape May and the peninsula area at the bottom of the map is very difficult. Here is one...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/nj/njwg1a.jpg)

I was gulity in creating a collector's patch back in '97 including a map of Minnesota that was missing the Lake of the Woods area - aka the "chimney"...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/mn/mnwgse.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DC on June 15, 2009, 04:22:41 PM
I heard some RUMINT the other day that suggested FLWG will shortly be getting a new patch..

Has anyone else heard about this?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on June 15, 2009, 04:26:35 PM
I heard some RUMINT the other day that suggested FLWG will shortly be getting a new patch..

Has anyone else heard about this?

Let's hope so, because the CAP Seal patch is about as 'generic' as one could get for a wing patch.

The only way that patch would ever work, and what I think the creator of that idea was thinking when he made that happen was, to have every wing wear that design with rockers designating your wing. Which I doubt anyone would do, and would sooner not wear a wing patch than do that.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on June 15, 2009, 06:04:31 PM
New Florida Wing emblem? Not looking likely.

Within the last few weeks, a wing policy letter mandating the wear of wing patches (after National made them optional) was rescinded. That policy letter had been written by an alleged associate of HWSRN before that individual was kicked up to command SER.

After the guy who replaced THAT guy was replaced, the interim Florida commander designed a challenge coin that some thought "might make a nice wing patch." As someone who deals with design, I thought it was a flawed idea -- too much little detail to work well as an emblem, plus no original elements. That "nice wing patch" sentiment was RUMINT.

If anything, I'd like to see the heritage gator emblem put in a shield and presented again. Someone floated a "new" gator, one that appeared angry and not helpful at all, clutching a first-aid box as if to say "try and take this from me." But there's nothing wrong with the heritage gator, save for the white underbelly on the animal.

Hmmm... maybe I have a project to undertake, breaking out Illustrator to do an updated FLWG emblem!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: davidsinn on June 15, 2009, 06:14:44 PM
New Florida Wing emblem? Not looking likely.

Within the last few weeks, a wing policy letter mandating the wear of wing patches (after National made them optional) was rescinded.

So does that make INWG the last mandated wing patch wing?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: jimmydeanno on June 15, 2009, 06:29:41 PM
New Florida Wing emblem? Not looking likely.

Within the last few weeks, a wing policy letter mandating the wear of wing patches (after National made them optional) was rescinded.

So does that make INWG the last mandated wing patch wing?

Nope, NH is in the list too.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Always Ready on June 15, 2009, 07:25:39 PM
New Florida Wing emblem? Not looking likely.

Within the last few weeks, a wing policy letter mandating the wear of wing patches (after National made them optional) was rescinded.

So does that make INWG the last mandated wing patch wing?

Nope, NH is in the list too.

Certain squadrons require it too.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on June 15, 2009, 08:39:33 PM
Minnesota's is too, but let's not tie up this thread with that stuff. That's just asking for a lock!

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/FL/history/newgator.gif)

The "updated" gator based loosly off Zack Mosley's drawing, never went anywhere as far as becoming the next Florida Wing patch. In fact, I first saw it immeadiately after the corprate creast concept appeared. Probably created in a little frustration

I believe I posted this squadron patch here or in another thread before, but if you hadn't seen it...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/FL/fl202.jpg)
My thanks to Bill Breeze for helping me preserve a copy of this patch, as the unit has disbanded and it probably would have been lost to history.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on June 15, 2009, 09:27:25 PM
New Florida Wing emblem? Not looking likely.

Within the last few weeks, a wing policy letter mandating the wear of wing patches (after National made them optional) was rescinded.

So does that make INWG the last mandated wing patch wing?

Nope, NH is in the list too.

It's required in CA too.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DC on June 16, 2009, 06:59:33 AM
Here's a picture I was sent of what I referred to previously...


(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/CAPnum/newpatch.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on June 16, 2009, 10:21:34 AM
Quite tame compaired to the boldness of the gator patch, but a very desent design and layout. And WAY better than the current patch!

The 8 stars might be a nod back to the old charter system (08xxx), but I don't recognize the constilation if it is one. The stylized aircraft delta and contrail might reference the space program in Florida. The compass rose could mean almost anything you wanted it to.

Thanks for sharing it!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DC on June 16, 2009, 10:57:47 AM
Quite tame compaired to the boldness of the gator patch, but a very desent design and layout. And WAY better than the current patch!

The 8 stars might be a nod back to the old charter system (08xxx), but I don't recognize the constilation if it is one. The stylized aircraft delta and contrail might reference the space program in Florida. The compass rose could mean almost anything you wanted it to.

Thanks for sharing it!
From what I heard the eight stars symbolize FLWG's eight Groups. I don't have the full heraldry, but I was thinking the same thing about the delta and contrail. It would be the only real reference to Florida on the patch, and the space program is a big part of our AE and Homeland Security missions...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Ozzy on June 16, 2009, 02:47:20 PM
From what I heard the eight stars symbolize FLWG's eight Groups. I don't have the full heraldry, but I was thinking the same thing about the delta and contrail. It would be the only real reference to Florida on the patch, and the space program is a big part of our AE and Homeland Security missions...

Hm..... if you use your imagination a little bit, the navy blue can look like florida.... same general shape.... when I first saw the patch I also thought the delta was a symbol of the current space shuttle with the contrails.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BillB on June 16, 2009, 03:09:28 PM
DC    Florida Wing originally had four groups. not eight. Group 1 was Miami, Gp 2 Jacksonville, Group 3 Tampa, Group 4 the Panhandle. After the number of groups increased to over 20, the Sector System was started and the old Gp 1 area bcame sector A, Gp 3 Sector B Gp 2 Secor C. Thus the Sector letters moved from south to north in the Wing
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DC on June 16, 2009, 03:13:36 PM
From what I heard the eight stars symbolize FLWG's eight Groups. I don't have the full heraldry, but I was thinking the same thing about the delta and contrail. It would be the only real reference to Florida on the patch, and the space program is a big part of our AE and Homeland Security missions...

Hm..... if you use your imagination a little bit, the navy blue can look like florida.... same general shape.... when I first saw the patch I also thought the delta was a symbol of the current space shuttle with the contrails.
Yeah, sorta, but I don't think that was intentional... The delta is generic enough to stand for any launch vehicle, since Florida is the launch site for most of NASA and the Air Force's unmanned launches, in addition to being the sole launch site for the shuttle, and in a few years the Constellation Program.

DC    Florida Wing originally had four groups. not eight. Group 1 was Miami, Gp 2 Jacksonville, Group 3 Tampa, Group 4 the Panhandle. After the number of groups increased to over 20, the Sector System was started and the old Gp 1 area bcame sector A, Gp 2 Sector B etc.
I know it has varied over the years. When I joined the were 13. However, there are currently eight groups, seven geographical and Group 800. The group explanation was from my friend that told me about this, and sent me the picture. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on June 16, 2009, 03:40:17 PM
I thought this thread was about squadron patches?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DC on June 16, 2009, 03:57:42 PM
I thought this thread was about squadron patches?
By the thread title, it is, but is it a huge crime for it to deviate a little into a wing patch discussion?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on June 16, 2009, 04:02:47 PM
Yes, punishable by death... and thread lockage.  I would have put this one on ice eons ago, but it's Pylons baby.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on June 16, 2009, 04:17:37 PM
Perhaps the ever wise Pylon could submit an addendum to rename the thread "Best of Unit Patches" for more flexability of the discussion  ;)

Here's one I just got in this month...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/NC/nc019b.jpg)

Get it?  ;D
Thanks for not locking the thread.

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on June 17, 2009, 12:18:45 AM
Here's a picture I was sent of what I referred to previously...


(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/CAPnum/newpatch.jpg)

Wow. Never saw that before. Doesn't exactly say "Florida" to me, and relies on cliched devices too much.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on June 17, 2009, 01:18:22 AM
Here's a picture I was sent of what I referred to previously...


(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/CAPnum/newpatch.jpg)

Wow. Never saw that before. Doesn't exactly say "Florida" to me, and relies on cliched devices too much.

I like it, it looks like something the Air Force would use.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: A.Member on June 17, 2009, 01:52:35 AM
Here's a picture I was sent of what I referred to previously...


(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/CAPnum/newpatch.jpg)

Wow. Never saw that before. Doesn't exactly say "Florida" to me, and relies on cliched devices too much.

I like it, it looks like something the Air Force would use.
I like it too.  Generally follows heraldry rules and is just a plain good looking Wing shield.  :clap:
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: wacapgh on June 17, 2009, 03:59:39 PM
New Florida Wing emblem? Not looking likely.

Within the last few weeks, a wing policy letter mandating the wear of wing patches (after National made them optional) was rescinded.

So does that make INWG the last mandated wing patch wing?

Nope, NH is in the list too.

It's required in CA too.

WA as well.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on June 17, 2009, 10:59:35 PM
It's a new emblem, but will it be required? And is THIS it? It's not on the Florida Wing Web site, at least that I can find it. Stay tuned....
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: AlphaSigOU on June 21, 2009, 01:24:49 PM
It's a new emblem, but will it be required? And is THIS it? It's not on the Florida Wing Web site, at least that I can find it. Stay tuned....

Good question - is the other patch to the right the 'wing weenie' staff squadron patch?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BillB on June 21, 2009, 02:18:09 PM
The one on the right looks like a modified Alabama Wing patch.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DC on June 23, 2009, 10:29:44 PM
The one on the right looks like a modified Alabama Wing patch.
Crossed red stripes over a white background is a common element in both FL and AL's state flags, and if I'm not mistaken, several other states.

The FLWG Cadet Programs shield also uses them. See the image in the upper left hand corner at this link (http://www.flcadet.com).
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: AlphaSigOU on June 24, 2009, 07:01:22 AM
The one on the right looks like a modified Alabama Wing patch.
Crossed red stripes over a white background is a common element in both FL and AL's state flags, and if I'm not mistaken, several other states.

The FLWG Cadet Programs shield also uses them. See the image in the upper left hand corner at this link (http://www.flcadet.com).

True that... Alabama's and Florida's flags are identical except that Florida adds their great seal to the center.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on June 24, 2009, 10:41:31 AM
Quote
The FLWG Cadet Programs shield also uses them.

(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/FL/notmine/flwgcp.gif)

Unfortunately, this one isn't mine. If anyone knows how to hook me up with one, I'd REALLY appreciate it!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DC on June 24, 2009, 11:17:17 AM
Wow, I didn't know those had actually ever been produced..
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Dragon 3-2 on June 29, 2009, 10:22:53 AM
we followed all of the rules for ours:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/Falcon0116/NewNJ102patch.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Gunner C on June 29, 2009, 03:21:52 PM
we followed all of the rules for ours:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/Falcon0116/NewNJ102patch.jpg)
That's a ripoff from the 517th Airlift Squadron, Elmendorf AFB, AK.  They were the 17th Tactical Airlift Squadron when I was a cadet there at Elmemdorf in the 1960s and they sponsored our squadron.  They gave us permission to use their squadron patch as our own - 17th Cadet Squadron (50017 now AK017).

(http://www.firebirds.org/menu23/menu23_files/image004.jpg)

Shameless.  >:(
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DC on August 22, 2009, 11:40:01 AM
My squadron finally, four years after it was designed, got our squadron patch produced, thanks to the great folks over at Butler Patches (http://www.butlerpatches.com).

I know it doesn't exactly comply with AF heraldry standards, but I still think it looks pretty nice.

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/CAPnum/sqpatch.jpg)

Here's the heraldry for it, I'm still trying to put together a blazon..

Quote
Red Field: Represents the characteristics of Strength, Boldness, and Valor.
Yellow Stripe: Symbolizes Excellence and Honor, contains a three bladed propeller within a triangle, representing Civil Air Patrol and its three missions of Aerospace Education, Cadet Programs and Emergency Services; as well as our squadron Charter Number.
Black Airplane: Represents our common interest in aviation, as well as our ties with the U.S. Air Force and their mission of Air & Space Dominance.
Black Horse: Represents our home, Marion County, Florida, the Horse Capital of the World
Gray Scroll: Represents Charity and our willingness to serve our community, and contains the name of our squadron.

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: A.Member on June 16, 2010, 01:59:09 AM
Our newly approved squadron patch (as of 6.15.10)...with heraldry:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/J-RAD/CAP/patch-aframvikingarFINAL.png)

2.  The lower tab (required for the unit name) depicts the words “Viking Squadron”. 

3.  The upper tab (required for the unit motto) contains the words “Afram Vikingar” [all three “a’s” are pronounced as in “car”, the “i” in “Vikingar” as in “it”, both words are pronounced as “ahf-rahm  vick-ing-ar”].  This is Old Norse for “Forward [or Onward] Vikings!”.

4.  The patch, as contained inside the circle, depicts a wooden Viking shield, surrounded by the traditional bronze rivets, on which a Viking ship is sailing towards the North Star, symbolic of Minnesota’s state motto “L’etoile du nord” (star of the north).  The ship is also a stylized airplane to illustrate our missions, particularly as it relates to SAR and AE.

5.  The sail is segregated into three sections indicative of our three core missions of cadet program, aerospace education, and emergency services.

6.  There are 12 “billets” in the shield which correspond to the positions of every hour on a clock face denoting that we are always available and reminding us that timeliness is of great consequence in our SAR missions. 

7.  The colors, following heraldic principles laid out in AFI 84-105, have the following meanings:

  a.  The red color of the sail symbolizes courage, patriotism, and passion (for our mission) all of which we encourage in our members.

  b.  The yellow used in the shield encircles everything, indicating excellence (in all we do), honor, and loyalty.

  c.  The ultramarine blue of the sky background and tabs indicates night, i.e. the time we are most often called to perform a SAR mission.

  d.  The light blue is used to depict water of the “Land of 10,000 Lakes”.

  e.  The white border and letters symbolize purity (our cadets), truth, and wisdom towards which we strive.

  f.  The gray/silver of the ship hull/airplane connotes discretion, humility, and retrospection, again attributes we are seeking to achieve.

Now to start shopping for vendors...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on June 16, 2010, 01:34:20 PM
I like it, particularly the old norse motto.  Who needs Latin anyway?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Dragon 3-2 on June 16, 2010, 07:26:50 PM

my squadron patch is about three post's up ( also in my sig)


 and as far as wing patches being put into proper shape, ive already done it for my wing, without compromising the original design

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/Falcon0116/NewJerseyWing.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SarDragon on June 16, 2010, 08:01:05 PM
my squadron patch is about three post's up ( also in my sig)

 and as far as wing patches being put into proper shape, ive already done it for my wing, without compromising the original design

EEEWWWW!!!

[formerly from 29059 and 29096]
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: HGjunkie on June 16, 2010, 09:15:20 PM
I hate the new FLWG patch:
(http://www.vanguardmil.com/images/medium/000000CAP0637H_MED.jpg)

I personally like the old-skool patch, the one I wear:
(http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af96/floridacap/FLWG.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on June 16, 2010, 09:34:38 PM
I thought this thread was about squadron patches, not wing patches?  The new FLWG patch probably looks good on the right sleeve of a zoom bag, maybe not on the left sleeve of a BDU or Field Uniform though... Kind of pointless 'cause it's "optional".
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: HGjunkie on June 16, 2010, 09:35:25 PM
True, but I still hate it. >:(
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: CadetProgramGuy on June 17, 2010, 10:25:59 PM
you know as much as members on this site complain about uniform issues, misplaced something or other, I am quite surprised no one is jumping all over the patches that are not correct for their echelon level.....

Squadrons are round, wing and higher are shields.

Added on:

But then again no one seems to listen to the uniform arguments either.......:)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on June 17, 2010, 10:30:35 PM
The ones posted in the last few days have been "correct".  I'm very confident it was brought up quite a bit when this thread was hot and heavy with submissions - it has been dormant for a while. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Mustang on June 22, 2010, 12:27:20 AM
Our newly approved squadron patch (as of 6.15.10)...with heraldry:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/J-RAD/CAP/patch-aframvikingarFINAL.png)

Love it!  Great design!

I hate the new FLWG patch:

I personally like the old-skool patch, the one I wear:
(http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af96/floridacap/FLWG.jpg)

There's nothing "old-skool" about that patch, my friend.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: AlphaSigOU on June 22, 2010, 02:38:07 PM
Bring back the 'pregnant alligator!' (Yes, Im Oooold School Florida Wing (former cadet-wise), and we know the Oooold School Florida Wing patch was the best wing patch...  ;D)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: alamrcn on June 23, 2010, 12:45:08 PM
This thread off-shoot would actually be better in the Hysterical History section. But real quick....

Quote from: CadetProgramGuy
Squadrons are round, wing and higher are shields.
*substitute "group" for "wing"

Untill our organization makes this a standard, that shape guideline is for Air Force emblems only and is NOT a requirement for Civil Air Patrol emblems. Certainly, Air Force Instruction 84-105 (first published in 1985) is a useful reference for anyone in CAP designing an emblem. And a very few wings have even added patch design requirements to their CAPR39-1 suppliment based off the Air Force emblem heraldry guidelines.

Please do remember that many of our wing emblems were designed using Army Air Corps and Army Air Forces guidelines, and meet the standards of thier time. Their has been NO interest at the National level to moderize these hystorical wing-level emblems, although wings like Nevada and Florida have updated on their own.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RickFranz on June 23, 2010, 11:07:29 PM
This thread off-shoot would actually be better in the Hysterical History section. But real quick....

Quote from: CadetProgramGuy
Squadrons are round, wing and higher are shields.
*substitute "group" for "wing"

Untill our organization makes this a standard, that shape guideline is for Air Force emblems only and is NOT a requirement for Civil Air Patrol emblems. Certainly, Air Force Instruction 84-105 (first published in 1985) is a useful reference for anyone in CAP designing an emblem. And a very few wings have even added patch design requirements to their CAPR39-1 suppliment based off the Air Force emblem heraldry guidelines.

Please do remember that many of our wing emblems were designed using Army Air Corps and Army Air Forces guidelines, and meet the standards of thier time. Their has been NO interest at the National level to moderize these hystorical wing-level emblems, although wings like Nevada and Florida have updated on their own.

The problem is that in the Air Force you wear a Wing Patch on the right hand breast pocket not on the left shoulder.  So if we did all switch to the newer guidelines it would look really out of place. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MCreedKY214 on June 24, 2010, 01:28:19 AM

Untill our organization makes this a standard, that shape guideline is for Air Force emblems only and is NOT a requirement for Civil Air Patrol emblems. Certainly, Air Force Instruction 84-105 (first published in 1985) is a useful reference for anyone in CAP designing an emblem. And a very few wings have even added patch design requirements to their CAPR39-1 suppliment based off the Air Force emblem heraldry guidelines.

We have incorporated design requirements in our 39-1 supp in Indiana. We reference 84-105 and list it as a guide, though we don't mandate 100% compliance. We do, however, require that shapes be used at the proper echelon, and that aquamarine and gold be incorporated. Of course, we do have unit emblems that were approved before that are grandfathered floating around, too.

Quote
Please do remember that many of our wing emblems were designed using Army Air Corps and Army Air Forces guidelines, and meet the standards of thier time. Their has been NO interest at the National level to moderize these hystorical wing-level emblems, although wings like Nevada and Florida have updated on their own.

History is exactly why we haven't looked at updating our wing patch, and won't. Plus, if we tried to incorporate our elements into a heater shield, you get something close enough to the 1st Special Operations Wing patch that we didn't want to go there.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eagle400 on June 24, 2010, 08:44:43 PM
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8388/sqpatch.png)

(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3404/challengersq.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DC on June 25, 2010, 03:23:05 PM
Interesting design, but I would have stuck with the white text. Red on blue is really hard to read.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SarDragon on June 25, 2010, 04:40:06 PM
While it's too late for that unit, here's commentary for anyone else contemplating new patches.

The manufacturing style of the patch above, with partial embroidery on a fabric background, as the advantage of being cheaper. The primary disadvantage is that they shrivel when washed. The patch above shows the tendency already, and after three or four washings will look terrible. A fully embroidered patch is the only way to go.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eagle400 on June 28, 2010, 02:21:49 PM
The manufacturing style of the patch above, with partial embroidery on a fabric background, as the advantage of being cheaper. The primary disadvantage is that they shrivel when washed. The patch above shows the tendency already, and after three or four washings will look terrible. A fully embroidered patch is the only way to go.

Good point; the one on my old BDU's has definitely seen better days.  :/ 

(Though they do look nice on the flight suit)

...But don't tell anyone I said that.

 :)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Irishrenegade on August 19, 2010, 04:29:27 PM
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/255/squadronpatch.png) (http://img838.imageshack.us/i/squadronpatch.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)



http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/255/squadronpatch.png

This one was created this year for our squadron.
Designer credit: 2dLt Chris Dare and 2dLt Rob Maucere


This was researched by the both of us heavly and it meets all USAF standards. (this actual picture is for the coins we are making...just imagine the Motto and SWR-OK-113 being rockers)


Colors:
Black- Constancy
Red- Warrior or martyr; Military strength and magnanimity
Gold- Generosity and elevation of mind
Blue- Truth and loyalty
White- Peace and sincerity


Squadron Mascot: Pegasus- Poetic genius and inspiration. Flame tip below head signifies powered flight. Wings in an upward position (designed after a Vol) signifies Swiftness and protection.


Chevron: Protection; Builders or others who have accomplished some work of faithful service. Also has Raguly design which signifies difficulties that have been encountered.


Stars: Divine quality from above. There are three for the three mission of Civil Air Patrol.


Motto: Vacatio ad servitium "Called to Serve"



So as you can see...we not only made a cool looking patch but it has a ton of meaning within it. We are very proud of it and look to wear this patch proudly with all that it stands for.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on August 19, 2010, 04:41:19 PM
Chris, great looking patch!  :clap:


Also, Kudos to you for following AF Heraldry, and sticking with the correct patch shape for a squadron!

Can't wait to see it stitched!

If you haven't found a vendor, patches4less.com does a great job.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on August 19, 2010, 04:42:06 PM
Very Nice!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Irishrenegade on August 19, 2010, 04:46:35 PM
@Eclipse and @ Lancer Thanks! We are trying to find a vendor as we speak actually...this has been a slow process. The drawings we did started in January and after about 12 versions we finished with this and it only took the wing commander 6 hours to approve it last week! but yea anyway I will check that site out for sure!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: biomed441 on August 19, 2010, 08:22:43 PM
Thanks for the kind words Eclipse and Lancer. Thanks for the link as well. We have a few people working on vendors ATM, but always good to see some more sources.

And for relief of the imagination, heres the edited version with rockers.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8955/patch.png
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: vmstan on August 19, 2010, 09:19:07 PM
Correct shapes be darned! (We've had this since the squadron started in 2006)

(http://www.kswg.cap.gov/images/stories/KS034/img478da344cd955.jpg)
(http://www.imgftw.net/img/269920817.jpg)

I've seen the heraldry for it, I just don't have it to explain all the different bits.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on August 19, 2010, 09:21:12 PM
Correct shapes be darned! (We've had this since the squadron started in 2006)

Text in the field is a no-no too!  ;)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: vmstan on August 19, 2010, 09:27:52 PM
Yeah, it was designed by cadets, and approved by Wing, all long before I had anything to do with CAP. But I can't make any excuses for design flaws ;)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Lancer on August 19, 2010, 09:41:06 PM
All in good fun Mike...all in good fun.  :P

I do like the design, and the color choices too.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: biomed441 on August 19, 2010, 11:30:32 PM
Random question. Is there any CAPTALKer familiar with blazoning or know someone who is and would be willing to assist with writing up a blazon? I know the basics, but when things get complex, I get lost.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on August 19, 2010, 11:43:46 PM
Has it changed already?

There seem to be two versions in this thread, one with rockers, one without.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: biomed441 on August 19, 2010, 11:51:33 PM
Nope no change. Its sopposed to have rockers. I just forgot that I never sent Chris the current version with rockers...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Irishrenegade on August 20, 2010, 10:55:48 PM
Has it changed already?

There seem to be two versions in this thread, one with rockers, one without.

One is the patch...one is for the challenge coins.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: dogden on August 21, 2010, 01:05:40 AM
Here is our squadron patch, we took most of the heraldry from the presidential seal with modifications to make it specific to G. H. W. Bush.

(http://www.group3txwing.org/content/0908/ghwb_patch_lg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: DC on August 21, 2010, 03:34:31 AM
It looks nice, but it's a little busy. How well do things like the text on the scrolls and the lines in the background translate to embroidery?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: vmstan on August 22, 2010, 10:48:52 PM
Although never a fan of the namesake, that is one of the most BA CAP logos I've seen.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SarDragon on August 23, 2010, 01:38:08 AM
Looks great except for one thing - ditch the serif type face. A sans serif type face is easier to read, and embroider.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Mustang on August 23, 2010, 03:05:53 AM
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/255/squadronpatch.png) (http://img838.imageshack.us/i/squadronpatch.png/)

Love the design, hate that you're using the unit charter number instead of the unit name.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: biomed441 on August 23, 2010, 09:06:39 PM
We debated using the squadron name, though It was pushing the heraldry limits for allowable characters. Looked a little cramped in a rocker as well, so we went with the charter.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Mustang on August 23, 2010, 11:30:12 PM
"OKLAHOMA CITY COMP SQ" is too long??  It's one more character than "VOCATIO AD SERVITIUM".

Seems to me it would balance the top and bottom arcs.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SarDragon on August 23, 2010, 11:52:32 PM
"OKLAHOMA CITY COMP SQ" is too long??  It's one more character than "VOCATIO AD SERVITIUM".

Seems to me it would balance the top and bottom arcs.

Not exactly. By raw character count, that's correct. However, the squadron name has one more M and two fewer I's, in a variable width typeface, so it's even longer than you might think.

Here's what you get in Arial:

OKLAHOMA CITY COMP SQ
VOCATIO AD SERVITIUM

Could get a little crowded if everything's spelled out, but there's nothing wrong with abbreviating "Oklahoma City," which would be my choice.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Mustang on August 24, 2010, 12:52:38 AM
My issue with using unit charter numbers in lieu of official unit names is two-fold:

First, a charter number is utterly meaningless to the casual observer. Without the secret decoder ring, it remains a cipher.

Second, the NB and NHQ can (and have) unilaterally change the charter number system on a whim. The addition of the region identifier is a perfect example of that.  In contrast, I don't know of a single unit whose official name was affected by either charter number format change enacted over the past 20 years.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Irishrenegade on August 24, 2010, 08:44:33 AM
We can probably look into it further than we already have (as the Lieutenant mentioned above) ...this is the approved one though. I dont like abbreviating anything along with everyone in the squadron so we all kinda made the decision as a "team" to have it this way. Honestly cant CAP Talk be about accepting everyone instead of shooting everything down?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on August 24, 2010, 09:15:10 AM
We can probably look into it further than we already have (as the Lieutenant mentioned above) ...this is the approved one though. I dont like abbreviating anything along with everyone in the squadron so we all kinda made the decision as a "team" to have it this way. Honestly cant CAP Talk be about accepting everyone instead of shooting everything down?

I think it's a fair suggestion, and didn't look like it was shooting anything down. The Patch is still awesome, but what IS your unit name?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: biomed441 on August 24, 2010, 04:00:26 PM
I never saw it as being brought down. Always open for suggestions and opinions. Don't worry about it Irish, can't please everyone, and atempting to is well... dont even try to. The court of public opinion is just that, opinion.

As for our official squadron name, we are the Oklahoma City Composite Squadron. Within the unit and wing though, we are just known as 113. Does the charter mean anything to the public? No not really. Does the public need to know exactly who we are and where we are from just by looking at our uniform? Not so sure thats necessary either. Sometimes ambiguity can spark curiosity and conversation? My biggest concern was making sure AF heraldry standards were met. I know CAP doesnt exactly enforce them, and the AF seems to only loosely enforce them, but its just something that needs to be done IMHO.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SarDragon on August 24, 2010, 04:26:28 PM
As you may (or may not) have noticed in prior discussions, I am a BIG fan of unit names. Here in CAWG, the predominance is for unit numbers, and is distresses me to no end. Podunk Cadet Squadron is much more friendly than Squadron 26, and gives a local reference.

When someone says Big Bear, or Huntington Beach, or Fresno, or most any other location in California, it's easy to figure out where they are located. The squadrons with people's names are a bit harder, but are still better, IMHO, that a string of numbers.

Getting back to the patch, using OKLA CITY COMP SQ conveys more about the unit than SWR-OK-113, which sounds like it could be a part number for an aircraft part just as well as it could be a unit identifier.

YMMV.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on August 24, 2010, 04:39:18 PM
Who are the squadron patches for?  CAP members or the general public?  That is what should drive what is on it. 

Should we dump the latin mottos since the public doesn't know Latin any more than they recognize CAP charter numbers?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: dogden on August 31, 2010, 12:54:54 PM
Sorry for the delay in replying, I had log-in issues....

I did not realize our squadron patch and emblem are slightly different, the font is changed and the Latin scroll is moved. It is a big patch 4in round, it takes up most of the pocket on the BDU's and looks HUGE on the flightsuit. I think it is the best looking patch I have had in any of my squadrons.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/4942877432_5efaba9f03.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on August 31, 2010, 02:57:09 PM
Why would you be wearing it on the flight suit anyway?[/Loaded Question]  >:D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on August 31, 2010, 03:21:55 PM
Why would you be wearing it on the flight suit anyway?[/Loaded Question] 

Some Wings have supplements which allow unit insignia to be worn as one of the optional patches.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on August 31, 2010, 03:26:45 PM
Sorry for the delay in replying, I had log-in issues....

I did not realize our squadron patch and emblem are slightly different, the font is changed and the Latin scroll is moved. It is a big patch 4in round, it takes up most of the pocket on the BDU's and looks HUGE on the flightsuit. I think it is the best looking patch I have had in any of my squadrons.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4119/4942877432_5efaba9f03.jpg)

(http://www.group3txwing.org/content/0908/ghwb_patch_lg.jpg)

The unit number is different as well.

One could make hay that these are not the same insignia and therefore one or the other isn't actually approved for wear.  I was originally going to note that you'd never be able to get the script on a patch that small and have it be legible.

They also spelled "squadron" wrong on the patch.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on August 31, 2010, 03:32:32 PM
<_< I knew better, and I STILL fell for it!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: dogden on August 31, 2010, 03:33:58 PM
Why would you be wearing it on the flight suit anyway?[/Loaded Question]  >:D

Because I am a rebel! Usually I'm wearing my ARM patch but it's not like my pen pocket patches are legal either.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: A.Member on August 31, 2010, 03:58:23 PM
...It is a big patch 4in round...
Big?!  At 4" round, that's well beyond big!   You should just sew them on the back of your jackets like a motorcycle gang...

:)
 

Edit:  Removed question....it's probably worthy of a new thread.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on August 31, 2010, 05:11:29 PM
I think its an outstanding looking piece of electronic art but it is WAY too busy for a patch even one as big as it is. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: biomed441 on September 03, 2010, 12:36:25 AM

Some Wings have supplements which allow unit insignia to be worn as one of the optional patches.

Minor Derail - You wouldn't happen to know which wings would you?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Chief2009 on September 10, 2010, 08:43:52 AM
Only one I know off the top of my head is IL

DN
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: tsrup on September 10, 2010, 11:05:06 AM
Only one I know off the top of my head is IL

DN

You can add South Dakota Wing to that list.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: lordmonar on September 10, 2010, 03:49:06 PM
As you may (or may not) have noticed in prior discussions, I am a BIG fan of unit names. Here in CAWG, the predominance is for unit numbers, and is distresses me to no end. Podunk Cadet Squadron is much more friendly than Squadron 26, and gives a local reference.

When someone says Big Bear, or Huntington Beach, or Fresno, or most any other location in California, it's easy to figure out where they are located. The squadrons with people's names are a bit harder, but are still better, IMHO, that a string of numbers.

Getting back to the patch, using OKLA CITY COMP SQ conveys more about the unit than SWR-OK-113, which sounds like it could be a part number for an aircraft part just as well as it could be a unit identifier.

YMMV.

I'm a fan of the numbers....but I understand what you are getting at.  If we are going to go with names....I would mandate it to geographical names.

Nellis Composite Squadron or South Bend Upper two thirds of the Eastern side of the Colorado River Composite Squadron is a lot better then the Hommer J. Simpson, MMMMM Doughnuts, Memorial Senior Squadron!

Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: HGjunkie on September 10, 2010, 07:24:27 PM
(http://www.directpolicesales.com/zencart/images/categories/DonutPolicePatch.jpg)

(http://www.popgadget.net/images/donut-flash-drive.jpg)

/derail
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Dragon 3-2 on September 10, 2010, 10:19:29 PM
Only one I know off the top of my head is IL

DN

You can add South Dakota Wing to that list.

I didnt think it was against any regs to wear a squadron patch on the flight suit, but nobody yells at me for doing so in NJ soooo.......
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SoCalMarine on June 19, 2011, 04:24:44 AM
Well, I can show you one of the worst ones. This is my old squadron when I first rejoined CAP. They actually had a nice one that a few people at NESA asked if they could get one for their collection. Anyway, this is their new design. I should put design in quotes for obvious reasons.

(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/23311_126003684094958_5356_n.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Zen Master Charlie on July 05, 2011, 02:53:31 PM
Well, I can show you one of the worst ones. This is my old squadron when I first rejoined CAP. They actually had a nice one that a few people at NESA asked if they could get one for their collection. Anyway, this is their new design. I should put design in quotes for obvious reasons.

(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/23311_126003684094958_5356_n.jpg)

Hmm, I dont think the Foothills Cadet Squadron is using this patch right now. I think they have a shield. I saw a few of their cadets recently and their patch was more black if I recall correctly. oh... your banned, darn, guess i wont get a respnse... sad day  :'(
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Zen Master Charlie on July 05, 2011, 02:58:32 PM
Our newly approved squadron patch (as of 6.15.10)...with heraldry:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/J-RAD/CAP/patch-aframvikingarFINAL.png)

Love it!  Great design!

I hate the new FLWG patch:

I personally like the old-skool patch, the one I wear:
(http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af96/floridacap/FLWG.jpg)

There's nothing "old-skool" about that patch, my friend.

Mustang is right... This ugly design was supposed to go nationwide. Another one of X-General Peneda's great ideas  ::) But when he was forced to resign, and dissapeared, this universal wing patch idea went with him.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Skydude61 on July 05, 2011, 03:53:33 PM
(http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/174890_130672453672524_1885993_n.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.facebook.com/pages/Thames-River-Composite-Squadron-of-the-Civil-Air-Patrol/130672453672524&usg=__K9L268bgf2kFB1cgg36NU25GgMo=&h=136&w=139&sz=12&hl=en&start=0&sig2=AZLIHBRkRlH6rz9e02vDqg&zoom=1&tbnid=qFGcu-5R4Us68M:&tbnh=108&tbnw=111&ei=5GoTTpiYL4rWgQfPzYz-BA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DCap%2Bthames%2BRiver%2BComposite%2Bsquadron%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4SKPB_enUS290US291%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D605%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=1072&vpy=141&dur=704&hovh=108&hovw=111&tx=100&ty=64&page=1&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0&biw=1280&bih=605)
this be ours... think what you will.
BTW, if all you see is a hyperlink, but still wish to view it, C&P it into the little bar that takes web addresses.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on July 05, 2011, 03:54:56 PM
Mustang is right... This ugly design was supposed to go nationwide. Another one of X-General Peneda's great ideas  ::) But when he was forced to resign, and dissapeared, this universal wing patch idea went with him.

Cite please.

There was no movement or action to make a universal wing patch during the former Commander's tenure.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: HGjunkie on July 05, 2011, 03:56:59 PM
Cite please.

There was no movement or action to make a universal wing patch during the former Commander's tenure.

Yeah, this. I had heard of the patch design being pushed to be nationwide, and was killed when he got booted. Never saw a document related to it though, so it was either a rumor or something else non-official.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Zen Master Charlie on July 06, 2011, 04:20:03 AM
Cite please.

There was no movement or action to make a universal wing patch during the former Commander's tenure.

Yeah, this. I had heard of the patch design being pushed to be nationwide, and was killed when he got booted. Never saw a document related to it though, so it was either a rumor or something else non-official.

It was one of Penada... Penyada, however you spell it's ideas, and he tried it out on Florida, dunno why, Just happened. An Ex-Florida Wing Director of Cadet Programs told me about this happening during his term. But now he's better off in Colorado so it doesnt matter anymore!  ;D       I know you well enough now Mr. EClispse that an Ex Director of Cadet Programs isnt going to be a hard enough cite for you, and you want to see some documentation, but I'm sorry, thats the best I can do for you... Hope you like? ???
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on July 06, 2011, 01:20:27 PM
Cite please.

There was no movement or action to make a universal wing patch during the former Commander's tenure.

Yeah, this. I had heard of the patch design being pushed to be nationwide, and was killed when he got booted. Never saw a document related to it though, so it was either a rumor or something else non-official.

It was one of Penada... Penyada, however you spell it's ideas, and he tried it out on Florida, dunno why, Just happened. An Ex-Florida Wing Director of Cadet Programs told me about this happening during his term. But now he's better off in Colorado so it doesnt matter anymore!         I know you well enough now Mr. EClispse that an Ex Director of Cadet Programs isnt going to be a hard enough cite for you, and you want to see some documentation, but I'm sorry, thats the best I can do for you... Hope you like?

You are correct, some off-handed comment by a former random wing-staffer has no weight in something you are purporting to have been a national initiative.  It isn't even a staffer who would be involved in that wing's insignia, let alone one for the whole organization.

What you are forgetting, or perhaps didn't know, is that it was during HWSRN's tenure that wing patches were removed / made optional from dress and field uniforms.  Not exactly the kind of action that would indicate he was intending to redesign every patch in the country.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Zen Master Charlie on July 06, 2011, 03:28:02 PM
What you are forgetting, or perhaps didn't know, is that it was during HWSRN's tenure that wing patches were removed / made optional from dress and field uniforms.  Not exactly the kind of action that would indicate he was intending to redesign every patch in the country.

When I joined CAP in 2005, Penyada was still the Commander, and at the time, Wing Patches were still required. It wasn't until a couple years later that wing patches were deemed "optional."

BTW, I'm just curious, this forum wasn't about who had what plan for what wing patches and who's right about what. Someone had posted florida's patch, and I figured that a Wing Director of Cadet Programs who was serving in that position at the time of their wings patch change, would know a thing or two about why they changed it, so i commented on the photo. It made since to me. And I'm not the only one who has heard that either. But my bigest question of all (because I've seen your posts in every other forum)... Do you go around asking people to cite them selfs on everything? Is that your purpose in life? You have to understand here sir, that not EVERYTHING is written down on public documents for everyone to see. Especially if its just an 'idea.' Going "by the book" is good, and that is how it should be, but what happens when you run into contradictions or blanks, or loop holes? Then what? Sure most things are and should be in writing on record, but the reality is, not everything is, and it is then, and only then, can a good leader be measured for their inturpritation skills.

I'll be 100% honest here, If I had a leader telling me to cite every little thing I did, I wouldnt be in CAP anymore because it would loose its fun, and excitment. Some things just are what they are, and one day I hope you can come to realize this. You seem to be a big hot shot or something on this forum, with your fancy little stars and your title as "too much free time" but personally, I wonder to myself, 'is this guy a good leader in his unit? Or is he frowned upon because he's way to strict and never gets anything done because his nose is barried so deep in the books that the binding is starting to frey from his intent breathing?'  ???

I'm sorry to be rude, but I call it as I see it.

 :clap: I applaud you for your dedication to knowledge and being aware of regulations history and manuals etc, I wish everyone were like that, Its a hard skill to develope, and your knowledge is impressive.  But when it comes down to it, sometimes you just gotta let things go.  :(
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: titanII on July 06, 2011, 03:35:46 PM
It's kinda been bugging me, so I'm gonna say it outright. It's Pineda. Not Peneda, not penyada, nor is it piñata. (nobody posted that last one, but, you know. Just trying to be funny  ::))
btw this was meant in a lighter tone than it probably looks. sorry if I offended...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Zen Master Charlie on July 06, 2011, 03:47:29 PM
It's kinda been bugging me, so I'm gonna say it outright. It's Pineda. Not Peneda, not penyada, nor is it piñata. (nobody posted that last one, but, you know. Just trying to be funny  ::))
btw this was meant in a lighter tone than it probably looks. sorry if I offended...

Haha, it made me laugh anyway!  ;D Now I know how to spell it!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on July 06, 2011, 04:34:03 PM
What you are forgetting, or perhaps didn't know, is that it was during HWSRN's tenure that wing patches were removed / made optional from dress and field uniforms.  Not exactly the kind of action that would indicate he was intending to redesign every patch in the country.

When I joined CAP in 2005, Penyada was still the Commander, and at the time, Wing Patches were still required. It wasn't until a couple years later that wing patches were deemed "optional."
It was march 2006

BTW, I'm just curious, this forum wasn't about who had what plan for what wing patches and who's right about what. Someone had posted florida's patch, and I figured that a Wing Director of Cadet Programs who was serving in that position at the time of their wings patch change, would know a thing or two about why they changed it, so i commented on the photo. It made since to me.
No, you indicated that the plan was to implement that design nationally.

Mustang is right... This ugly design was supposed to go nationwide. Another one of X-General Peneda's great ideas But when he was forced to resign, and dissapeared, this universal wing patch idea went with him.

You said nothing about why or who in Florida.  I have no doubt whatsoever that a Florida Wing Staffer had information about the Florida Wing patch, and every doubt that HWSRN had any plan to make the insignia in question standardized for every wing.

Do you go around asking people to cite them selfs on everything? Is that your purpose in life? You have to understand here sir, that not EVERYTHING is written down on public documents for everyone to see.

Cadet Caldwell, the world is going to be a very exciting place for you unless you check your attitude a bit when discussing things you know little about with adults.

You may live in a Facebook world of high drama and low grammar skills, but in the real world of business and the military, people do not accept statements made as fact "because you said so".  And yes, when people say things to me that sound ridiculous or misinterpreted, I ask for substantiation. 

That's how you learn.

I'm sorry to be rude, but I call it as I see it.
Your behavior here and continued confrontational responses speak otherwise.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: viperred396 on July 06, 2011, 05:25:46 PM
[Hmm, I dont think the Foothills Cadet Squadron is using this patch right now. I think they have a shield. I saw a few of their cadets recently and their patch was more black if I recall correctly.

Actually I think they are still using this patch.. At the 2011 COWG encampment all of Foothills wore this patch
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BillB on July 06, 2011, 05:49:12 PM
In an informal discussion, Pineda mentioned he wanted a single patch like the Florida patch with the Wing name in the top arc. He was Region Commander at the time USAF told CAP to remove the shoulder patch from blues uniforms, but said nothing about BDUs. So the wing patch was made optional on BDUs, however most Wings required they be worn. (I think I saw it was 27 Wings that required Wing patch on BDUs after it was made optional)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on July 06, 2011, 06:19:45 PM
He was Region Commander at the time USAF told CAP to remove the shoulder patch from blues uniforms, but said nothing about BDUs.

The memo regarding removal of Wing patches from blues was dated 15 March 2006.  HWSRN was appointed National CC in July of 2005.

Removal was based on a request from CAP, not a directive from the USAF, and was enacted at the National Board Meeting on 4 March 2006.
Removing the patch from BDU's was not settled at that meeting.

See page 43 of the meeting minutes:
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/minutes/nb0603.pdf

"COL HODGKINS, SR AF ADVISOR, stated that if the board decides to eliminate wear of patches on the blue uniform, he would need to seek Air Force approval."

Hardly CAP being "told to remove them".

COL HODGKINS/CAP-USAF/CC apologized for his earlier statement and stated for the record that on the question of whether CAP wears the wing patches "or does not wear the wing patches the Air Force is officially neutral on that CAP decision "
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Zen Master Charlie on July 06, 2011, 06:38:23 PM
[Hmm, I dont think the Foothills Cadet Squadron is using this patch right now. I think they have a shield. I saw a few of their cadets recently and their patch was more black if I recall correctly.

Actually I think they are still using this patch.. At the 2011 COWG encampment all of Foothills wore this patch


Yeah, I think your right. I might be thinking of their old one.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Starlock on July 11, 2011, 05:46:09 PM
I've always liked this one. Odds are if you're in central/east Missouri wing you've seen it around a couple times. Apparently the border colors are the colors of the school they meet at, which is pretty smart!

(http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww7/VMCStarloric/035-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: lordmonar on July 11, 2011, 06:42:35 PM
Anyone see the Yokota Cadet Squadron patch in this month's Volunteer......that is a cool patch IMHO.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on July 11, 2011, 11:13:45 PM
Anyone see the Yokota Cadet Squadron patch in this month's Volunteer......that is a cool patch IMHO.

Very.

(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/772/yokota.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MIKE on July 11, 2011, 11:23:46 PM
^ WINNING!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: afgeo4 on August 14, 2011, 04:11:10 PM
Here's my unit's patch. I welcome all comments on it.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Irishrenegade on August 15, 2011, 09:04:06 AM
Here's my unit's patch. I welcome all comments on it.

afgeo4...I like it! Does the work inside the Disk have any heraldry meaning to it?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: wilhelm147 on December 26, 2011, 06:48:10 PM
Here's my unit's patch. I welcome all comments on it.
afgeo4...I like it! Does the work inside the Disk have any heraldry meaning to it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/106th_Rescue_Wing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/106th_Rescue_Wing)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Extremepredjudice on December 26, 2011, 07:31:58 PM


(http://puu.sh/bC8Z)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on December 26, 2011, 08:11:24 PM


(http://puu.sh/bC8Z)

I can see two things "wrong" with the design.

By convention Squadrons use round patches and it has the infamous "Triangle Thingy"! >:D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on December 26, 2011, 08:15:13 PM
Is that even the proper name of the squadron?  Don't see one by that name in the last capwatch database that I downloaded down to the "organization" table level.  Plus, it should have "SQ" or some variation indicating the unit level. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Extremepredjudice on December 26, 2011, 08:16:17 PM
Another thing is we have no qualified ES people, so "search and rescue" ain't going to happen.


No it isn't our actual name.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: a2capt on December 27, 2011, 01:03:19 AM

They're not the only ones..

(http://sq150.cawg.cap.gov/images/Objects/SQ150.png)

Could be a left over/holdout from a time when ....
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: PHall on December 27, 2011, 01:40:02 AM

They're not the only ones..

(http://sq150.cawg.cap.gov/images/Objects/SQ150.png)

Could be a left over/holdout from a time when ....

Sq 150 is a lot smaller these days. These guys are one of those "Flying Club" Senior Squadrons you hear about.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: afgeo4 on February 18, 2012, 12:10:25 AM
Here's my unit's patch. I welcome all comments on it.

afgeo4...I like it! Does the work inside the Disk have any heraldry meaning to it?

Yes, it does. My squadron meets at the old Floyd Bennett Field and we got the inspiration from a former USAF unit that was stationed there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/394th_Bombardment_Group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/394th_Bombardment_Group)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: afgeo4 on February 18, 2012, 12:12:30 AM
Here's my unit's patch. I welcome all comments on it.
afgeo4...I like it! Does the work inside the Disk have any heraldry meaning to it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/106th_Rescue_Wing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/106th_Rescue_Wing)

Interestingly, I didn't know about 106 RQWs design being very similar until after I had my patches produced. In fact, they were influenced by the same unit that used to be stationed at Floyd Bennett Field, Brooklyn.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Private Investigator on February 18, 2012, 03:39:16 PM
Sq 150 is a lot smaller these days. These guys are one of those "Flying Club" Senior Squadrons you hear about.

ROFL ...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: abdsp51 on April 26, 2012, 09:15:39 PM
Here is the link for my first squadron http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/OS/index.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/OS/index.html) look at OS-119 and my old unit from down south look at CA-354 http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CA/index.html. (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CA/index.html.)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ßτε on April 26, 2012, 09:20:30 PM
Here is the link for my first squadron http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/OS/index.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/OS/index.html) look at OS-119 and my old unit from down south look at CA-354 http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CA/index.html. (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/CA/index.html)
Fixed the link for you. (The . should not be there.)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: abdsp51 on April 26, 2012, 09:49:57 PM
Why thank you much appreciated.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: That Anonymous Guy on April 28, 2012, 10:15:00 PM
Here are three patches I used to wear in the '90s...
Earhart squadron is the one in Yonkers? I really like their new patch and they are a great group of guys and girls. If I remember correctly there's a C130 in the middle and the wings stickout in between the rockers.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Robborsari on April 29, 2012, 10:18:50 PM
I like this one. 
(http://tnwg.cap.gov/files/knoxsr1_patch_transparent.png)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: BuckeyeDEJ on April 30, 2012, 11:16:55 AM
BTW, I'm just curious, this forum wasn't about who had what plan for what wing patches and who's right about what. Someone had posted florida's patch, and I figured that a Wing Director of Cadet Programs who was serving in that position at the time of their wings patch change, would know a thing or two about why they changed it, so i commented on the photo. It made since to me.
No, you indicated that the plan was to implement that design nationally.

Mustang is right... This ugly design was supposed to go nationwide. Another one of X-General Peneda's great ideas But when he was forced to resign, and dissapeared, this universal wing patch idea went with him.

You said nothing about why or who in Florida.  I have no doubt whatsoever that a Florida Wing Staffer had information about the Florida Wing patch, and every doubt that HWSRN had any plan to make the insignia in question standardized for every wing.

Actually, the guy who proposed it told me a few years ago that the end result wasn't at all what was envisioned. It was supposed to be a modernization of the World War II-era disc and arc, where the red arc would have "FLORIDA" inscribed instead of "CIVIL AIR PATROL." It was envisioned as a template for which the other 51 wings could hang their hat, hence the thought that it would "go national."

Somehow, a suggestion at a wing staff meeting went sideways enough that Florida wound up with the godawfulest wing emblem in the nation for a while (that honor now goes to a few other wings). While many hearken for the gator, which would look just fine in the Air Force modified-boiler shield (since the shield's supposed to have a gold border, the gator on a gold background would need a red outline around the shield, inside the border, to blazon correctly), I've come around on the current emblem. The HWSRN-era patch deservedly belongs on the historical scrap heap.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: FCCSmattskinner on May 09, 2012, 03:29:53 PM
Here is ours...Flying Castle Composite Squadron, SWR-OK-008, Tinker AFB, Oklahoma

(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/263008_242744829087761_147697955259116_937653_3123284_n.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Sgt. Fischer on May 17, 2012, 01:47:49 PM
I like my squadron patch!  :clap: sorry for bad quality.  :o
 
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/AZ/thumbs/~az083.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SarDragon on May 17, 2012, 05:09:05 PM
I like my squadron patch!  :clap: sorry for bad quality.  :o
 
[image redacted]

You know, the guy who owns the page you sucked patch image from, makes them small like that for exactly that reason. You are essentially stealing his bandwidth by linking to his site, instead of taking your own pic, and hosting it yourself.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Grumpy on May 17, 2012, 06:02:17 PM

They're not the only ones..

(http://sq150.cawg.cap.gov/images/Objects/SQ150.png)

Could be a left over/holdout from a time when ....

Sq 150 is a lot smaller these days. These guys are one of those "Flying Club" Senior Squadrons you hear about.

Ouch!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Struts on May 21, 2012, 03:43:42 PM
The best for last  8) ...
How do I post an image in here?
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on May 21, 2012, 03:58:49 PM
The best for last  8) ...
How do I post an image in here?

Link to it hosted somewhere like Imageshack.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Struts on May 21, 2012, 04:03:34 PM
Hmm well then I will just direct you all to this site then.

http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/nh/index.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/nh/index.html)
NH-010
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Stonewall on March 21, 2013, 04:04:33 PM
I know, an old old thread, but I have a question in reference to this post...

This thread hasn't been going for awhile, but I liked the discussion. For those that don't know, I'm the webmaster of the "CAP Patches" website at http://www.INCOUNTRY.us/cappatches/ (http://www.INCOUNTRY.us/cappatches/) .
I'm glad some of you have referenced the site and been able to use images from it!

All these cool CAP patches that that I see appearing on CAP-Talk... let's do some TRADING! I'd love to be able to preserve every patch I've see in my physical and web displays.

On the site, I have the start of a "Patch Creation" section that I think was put together about five years ago. It's been sitting in a rough stage, gathering cobwebs, and needs an extreme makeover!  I'd like to self-contain the page as much as possible, as hot-links always seem to become in-op eventually.

Basically, I'd like to include four parts to the page: CAP regs, USAF regs, heraldry (the largest portion), and ordering/manufacturing. These are the things I get asked about the most. The patch "templates" I have on there have been pretty popular too.

--------------------

NOW....
A few people have made a big stink about the shape of the patch, with shields are only used for upper level units, disks for lower level units, etc.

True - that is how the USAF does it now, however all of our wing patches (at some point) were designed during the late-40s/early-50s when the USAF was brand spanking new and used the Army's dirrections on insignia.

If we're going to change our patches to meet current USAF criteria, it needs to start at the top with the Wing Patches. They met AAC/AAF regs on conception, but the Air Force never requested we follow suit with their changes - including removing <cough> "division" patches from our shoulders.

So know that the wing patches have been removed from the shoulder, should we make shield-shape versions of them for our pockets?  I'm for it!  But until that happens, don't expect the lower-level units to start complying with a standard that doesn't exist yet.

FYI - a regulation on patch design HAS been proposed to the National Level before.

- Ace

Note:  I AM NOT ATTEMPTING TO CHANGE MY SQUADRON PATCH, I AM JUST INQUIRING.

Since this was posted, is there a regulation on squadron patches as far as shape and other requirements?

The patch much squadron has right now was created in 1991 by me and another cadet.  It is in the shape of a shield, and if this isn't the correct style/shape, I wouldn't be opposed to altering it a bit.  Maybe keep the same designs/colors/words, but change the shape.



I'm thinking we may want to shift to this style:
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/disk3.gif)

From this style:
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/shield3.gif)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on March 21, 2013, 04:13:58 PM
No national regulation on this has been approved that I've heard of.  Some wings have implemented such standards on their own though. 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on March 21, 2013, 04:27:49 PM
As RiverAux said, no regulation change has come through.  Though it does seem (from an anecdotal standpoint) that an increasing number of CAP units are adhering the Air Force's standard by using the appropriate emblem shape for their unit's echelon.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Jaison009 on March 21, 2013, 07:20:42 PM
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/AR/index.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/AR/index.html)   AR-040

My old squadron that I helped get off the ground in Branson, MO was a triangle shaped patch "Branson Tri-Lakes Composite Squadron" http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/bransoncap/openhouse.htm (http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/bransoncap/openhouse.htm) that Edward Lenoard came up with. They are named differently now.

Before that I was with Fairbanks Composite Squadron PCR-AK-009 "Black Wolves". We never had a patch officially made but our shirts were black with a golden wolf head inside the shield and Fairbanks Composite Squadron on the bottom of the shield. Others were just arching words Fairbanks Composite Squadron with a wolf head and Black Wolves underneath that would have fit the guidelines somewhat if it was made into a patch. The head looked a lot like the real deal http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000v4RBmxGYYaw/s/600/600/MW862.jpg. (http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000v4RBmxGYYaw/s/600/600/MW862.jpg.) It was pretty cool looking for a cadet and told everyone who we were.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Rick-DEL on March 22, 2013, 07:48:46 AM
Here's ours...
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Texas Raiders on March 24, 2013, 10:24:50 AM
Here's the new patch from the 399th Comp. Squadron of Danbury, Connecticut.  Danbury was once the hat capitol of the US, hence the significance of the top hat.  The squadron's nickname is "Yankee Hatters". 
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Private Investigator on March 24, 2013, 07:21:20 PM
Note:  I AM NOT ATTEMPTING TO CHANGE MY SQUADRON PATCH, I AM JUST INQUIRING.

Since this was posted, is there a regulation on squadron patches as far as shape and other requirements?

The patch much squadron has right now was created in 1991 by me and another cadet.  It is in the shape of a shield, and if this isn't the correct style/shape, I wouldn't be opposed to altering it a bit.  Maybe keep the same designs/colors/words, but change the shape.



I'm thinking we may want to shift to this style:
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/disk3.gif)

From this style:
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/shield3.gif)

I too like the disc with arcs especially for a Squadron.

My current Squadron brought up the topic but they wanted to bedazzle some nonsense. I thought it was the Cadets but it is some of the thirtysomething non Veteran types who wanted a "$100 bill, a cheeseburger and skull & crossbones" for their "Top Gun" fantasy.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Devil Doc on March 24, 2013, 10:44:48 PM
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/NC/index.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/NC/index.html)

I am with NC-162, SAR Devils!! I think it is Pretty Cool. Also look at NC-082, I think it is neat.

http://www.doubledeuces.org/ (http://www.doubledeuces.org/)

This patch, I think is the best out of all of them.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: tarheel gumby on March 25, 2013, 05:23:59 PM
Shelby & Asheville have good patches as well. Most of the new patches in NCWG look really sharp.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Devil Doc on March 25, 2013, 08:40:03 PM
Ya, im glad were getting cool patches.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Private Investigator on March 25, 2013, 10:00:09 PM
Ya, im glad were getting cool patches.

Patches are usually designed by the Cadets and Senior Members. You have a great patch you recognize the people who did the great work. You have a childish or sloppy patch the Unit Commander is to blame for that.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Ratatouille on March 26, 2013, 02:28:30 AM
Here is ours, the Lt. Anthony L. Willsea Cadet Squadron (NY-422), based at Westchester County Airport (HPN):

(http://ajbhlaw.com/cap/Design%203b%20Rev3.png)

We made sure to include Long Island in our map  >:D
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: MisterCD on March 26, 2013, 06:34:34 AM
Here's all the squadron insignia from the Ohio Wing, if anyone wishes to look through them:
http://www.ohwg.cap.gov/wing-historian/updatedohiowingheraldrybook (http://www.ohwg.cap.gov/wing-historian/updatedohiowingheraldrybook)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on March 26, 2013, 09:07:37 AM
Rata-

If you are at Westchester Airport, the patch should have been that of Westchester County, not the entire New York.

You should also have used the suggested Heraldic standards: that shape is for Groups, not squadrons. Squadrons use circles.

Read again the original post. This person was asking for well-designed patches that met USAF Heraldic standards. Along the way, responders forgot there were two conditions and are posting patches that do not meet USAF Heraldic standards.

Flyer
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: G+10 on March 26, 2013, 11:51:49 AM
http://www.doubledeuces.org/ (http://www.doubledeuces.org/)

This patch, I think is the best out of all of them.

I've heard of Cadet Squadrons, Composite Squadrons, heck even Senior Squadrons...

What the heck is a "SAR Squadron"?


update - Never mind, I see that they are a Composite Squadron
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Stonewall on March 26, 2013, 11:53:47 AM
http://www.doubledeuces.org/ (http://www.doubledeuces.org/)

This patch, I think is the best out of all of them.

I've heard of Cadet Squadrons, Composite Squadrons, heck even Senior Squadrons...

What the heck is a "SAR Squadron"?

Exactly, which is why I want to change our unit's patch.  Our patch is purely for a "SAR Squadron", not a cadet/composite, or even a CAP squadron.  It says "XXX SEARCH AND RESCUE SQUADRON".
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on March 26, 2013, 11:57:29 AM
Rata-

If you are at Westchester Airport, the patch should have been that of Westchester County, not the entire New York.

You should also have used the suggested Heraldic standards: that shape is for Groups, not squadrons. Squadrons use circles.

Read again the original post. This person was asking for well-designed patches that met USAF Heraldic standards. Along the way, responders forgot there were two conditions and are posting patches that do not meet USAF Heraldic standards.

Flyer

There's other issues as well - text in the field (though I have violated that myself), not properly shaping the letters in the scroll, and I'm not sure that the state inside the
prop and triangle is proper, either.  Considering some wings will get into heated arguments over "why the tires are black" on an airplane, it's surprising that NHQ still
hasn't said anything officially on these matters.

Granted, lower then uniforms on the Grande Scale, but easily fixed and low-hanging fruit should always be picked up when you can.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Ratatouille on March 26, 2013, 04:11:17 PM
Rata-

If you are at Westchester Airport, the patch should have been that of Westchester County, not the entire New York.

You should also have used the suggested Heraldic standards: that shape is for Groups, not squadrons. Squadrons use circles.

Read again the original post. This person was asking for well-designed patches that met USAF Heraldic standards. Along the way, responders forgot there were two conditions and are posting patches that do not meet USAF Heraldic standards.

Flyer

There's other issues as well - text in the field (though I have violated that myself), not properly shaping the letters in the scroll, and I'm not sure that the state inside the
prop and triangle is proper, either.  Considering some wings will get into heated arguments over "why the tires are black" on an airplane, it's surprising that NHQ still
hasn't said anything officially on these matters.

Granted, lower then uniforms on the Grande Scale, but easily fixed and low-hanging fruit should always be picked up when you can.

We are based in Westchester, but our missions are not limited to Westchester. Heck, the vast majority of ES missions I have been on have been outside of Westchester County.

The text in the scroll does actually follow the curvature of the scroll. I did this in illustrator by cribbing an Air Force or CAP patch (I forgot) that was available directly from the AF as an Illustrator file, and the text path for that text matched the path of the scroll. I added extra spacing between the "N" and "Y" in "Anthony" because the end of the word fell right in the change in vector of the scroll and without the extra space the top of the Y intruded on the Y. This was something we debated within the Squadron and I obsessed with when designing this in Illustrator.

As for the map within the triangle, this was approved by NYWg, so it doesn't seem anyone had a problem with it. Plenty of NYWg patches modify the tri-prop. See, e.g., the patches for NY-048 (prop with no triangle, NY-118 (old red version with no-prop triangle), NY-189 (triangle in yellow), and NY-249 (shield patch), available here: http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/NY/index.html (http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/NY/index.html)d
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on March 26, 2013, 05:08:24 PM
We are based in Westchester, but our missions are not limited to Westchester.

You're confusing the role of a squadron with duties some of your members may participate in.  If your AOR is outside Westchester, you should change the name of the unit.

The text in the scroll does actually follow the curvature of the scroll. I did this in illustrator by cribbing an Air Force or CAP patch (I forgot) that was available directly from the AF as an Illustrator file, and the text path for that text matched the path of the scroll. I added extra spacing between the "N" and "Y" in "Anthony" because the end of the word fell right in the change in vector of the scroll and without the extra space the top of the Y intruded on the Y. This was something we debated within the Squadron and I obsessed with when designing this in Illustrator.

The letters near the lower point look like they were just dropped onto the page from 5ft off the desk.  They should have been shaped and skewed to match the shape of the scroll.  However had you adhered to the proper base shape, it wouldn't have been an issue, since you'd just be filling a rocker.

Citing a respective wing approved something doesn't mean it's proper.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SarDragon on March 26, 2013, 05:16:04 PM
http://www.doubledeuces.org/ (http://www.doubledeuces.org/)

This patch, I think is the best out of all of them.

I've heard of Cadet Squadrons, Composite Squadrons, heck even Senior Squadrons...

What the heck is a "SAR Squadron"?

Exactly, which is why I want to change our unit's patch.  Our patch is purely for a "SAR Squadron", not a cadet/composite, or even a CAP squadron.  It says "XXX SEARCH AND RESCUE SQUADRON".

Except that functional names like that are discouraged/prohibited by CAPR 20-3.

Quote from: CAPR 20-3, para 5.c.
c. A proposed name for the unit. Unit names must include the following elements:
1) Identifying prefix - a short identifier, preferably associated with location (example: Shamrock, Dayton, Hot Springs, Midville, etc.). DO NOT use names such as "Black Sheep," "Flying Tigers," etc., or terms descriptive of major functions such as "Communications," "Jeep," or "Rescue," etc.
2) Type of unit (group, cadet squadron, senior squadron, composite squadron, or flight).

Older units were grandfathered in to a certain extent, but the trend is away from functional designations.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Ratatouille on March 26, 2013, 05:43:19 PM
We are based in Westchester, but our missions are not limited to Westchester.

You're confusing the role of a squadron with duties some of your members may participate in.  If your AOR is outside Westchester, you should change the name of the unit.

Following that logic, a map of Westchester would be inappropriate, since were we meet is in the Town-Village of Harrison. Of course, we don't actually have an AOR, so I guess it should really be an outline of the building we meet in.

The text in the scroll does actually follow the curvature of the scroll. I did this in illustrator by cribbing an Air Force or CAP patch (I forgot) that was available directly from the AF as an Illustrator file, and the text path for that text matched the path of the scroll. I added extra spacing between the "N" and "Y" in "Anthony" because the end of the word fell right in the change in vector of the scroll and without the extra space the top of the Y intruded on the Y. This was something we debated within the Squadron and I obsessed with when designing this in Illustrator.

The letters near the lower point look like they were just dropped onto the page from 5ft off the desk.  They should have been shaped and skewed to match the shape of the scroll.  However had you adhered to the proper base shape, it wouldn't have been an issue, since you'd just be filling a rocker.

Citing a respective wing approved something doesn't mean it's proper.

The Squadron's membership chose the shield shape out of several prototypes I made that included several circular designs as well. As a Commander I wanted the membership to be involved in the design of their patch, since a unit's insignia should be a reflection of the unit, not just the design whims of the Commander. They chose to go with a shield, and I am quite happy with that decision. Yes, it doesn't conform to USAF Heraldry regulations, but I challenge anyone to find me a CAP regulation that says we need to follow that USAF regulation.

Skewing individual letters is beyond my skills in Illustrator. I'm a lawyer, not a graphic designer. USAF has people on staff that do nothing but design and produce insignia all day. Unfortunately, my squadron doesn't have that. I will happily send you the Illustrator file if you think you can do a better job with the lettering. For the record, skewing of letters wouldn't even be noticeable on the embroidered patch, as you can see in the scanned patch below.

As for the modification of the propeller logo, again, find a regulation that says it is improper to modify the tri-prop logo or to come up with derivative logos.

(http://ajbhlaw.com/cap/422%20Patch%20Scan.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SarDragon on March 26, 2013, 05:57:09 PM
For the scroll lettering, split the path into three parts - LT. ANTHON, Y, L. WILLSEA. Manipulate each path separately.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Ratatouille on March 26, 2013, 05:59:35 PM
We are based in Westchester, but our missions are not limited to Westchester.

You're confusing the role of a squadron with duties some of your members may participate in.  If your AOR is outside Westchester, you should change the name of the unit.

The text in the scroll does actually follow the curvature of the scroll. I did this in illustrator by cribbing an Air Force or CAP patch (I forgot) that was available directly from the AF as an Illustrator file, and the text path for that text matched the path of the scroll. I added extra spacing between the "N" and "Y" in "Anthony" because the end of the word fell right in the change in vector of the scroll and without the extra space the top of the Y intruded on the Y. This was something we debated within the Squadron and I obsessed with when designing this in Illustrator.

The letters near the lower point look like they were just dropped onto the page from 5ft off the desk.  They should have been shaped and skewed to match the shape of the scroll.  However had you adhered to the proper base shape, it wouldn't have been an issue, since you'd just be filling a rocker.

Citing a respective wing approved something doesn't mean it's proper.
It seems the USAF doesn't always have handy-dandy letter skewers available either. See, e.g., the CAP-USAF shield http://www.af.mil/art/mediagallery.asp?galleryID=5187 (http://www.af.mil/art/mediagallery.asp?galleryID=5187), the Special Operations School or Combat Aircrew Tactics Training shields http://www.af.mil/art/mediagallery.asp?galleryID=5353  (http://www.af.mil/art/mediagallery.asp?galleryID=5353), or the AF Office of Special Investigations http://www.af.mil/art/mediagallery.asp?galleryID=5045&page=2 (http://www.af.mil/art/mediagallery.asp?galleryID=5045&page=2).

So how exactly is a CAP Squadron, with barebones resources, supposed to follow "rules" that not even the USAF, with all their resources, always follow.

Rules are important, especially in CAP, but the rules we have are already hard enough to follow without us coming up with a bunch of unwritten ones that serve no purpose in getting our missions done.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Ratatouille on March 26, 2013, 06:03:33 PM
For the scroll lettering, split the path into three parts - LT. ANTHON, Y, L. WILLSEA. Manipulate each path separately.

The path was either already there from the original lettering, or (more likely), I simply made the text path follow the path of the bottom edge of the scroll. I am better at summoning the dead to rise from their graves than I am at manipulating paths (especially from scratch), and every time I tried messing with them, the design went all cablooyee. Heck, I had to send the file out to a friend just the change the color of the scroll because the patch I was cribbing off of (the CAP command shield, I think) had a white scroll, so the scroll itself was just the paths of the outer edges with no fill.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on March 26, 2013, 06:06:23 PM
A good commander doesn't take steps in the wrong direction at the whim of his people just to make them happy. 
The proper thing to do would have been to establish the proper shape and then design within that.

The first thing I did when I started designing insignia was to ask "what's the standard".  I was pointed to the
Heraldry Guidelines and adhered to them.  Why waste calories fighting an established standard?

Your inability to properly shape the letters doesn't change the final product.  If you don't know Illustrator, the time to
ask for help is before money is spent.

Properly following the scroll is absolutely visible in a final patch.

(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/258/shapedscroll.jpg)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: arajca on March 26, 2013, 06:28:35 PM
When you send your design in, specify the lettering should follow the edge of the scroll. Any decent patch company can make that change easily enough. If you have an example of a patch with the letter format you want to use, include it and tell them make the lettering like that. Simple.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Ratatouille on March 26, 2013, 06:29:35 PM
A good commander doesn't take steps in the wrong direction at the whim of his people just to make them happy. 
The proper thing to do would have been to establish the proper shape and then design within that.

The first thing I did when I started designing insignia was to ask "what's the standard".  I was pointed to the
Heraldry Guidelines and adhered to them.  Why waste calories fighting an established standard?

Your inability to properly shape the letters doesn't change the final product.  If you don't know Illustrator, the time to
ask for help is before money is spent.

Properly following the scroll is absolutely visible in a final patch.

(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/258/shapedscroll.jpg)
Great job on the lettering of your patch. Too bad you violated the USAF rules for use of the Wings logo. I don't have a ruler handy, but it seems you did not keep a 15% stand-off space around the symbol. You also distorted the symbol on the produced patch, a big no-no for the USAF. http://www.trademark.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-120213-033.pdf (http://www.trademark.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-120213-033.pdf).

Also, what's that shield with the tri-prop symbol on the lower right? That logo doesn't appear on any CAP regs I'm aware of, so there is no way it could possibly be authorized. It also got quite distorted on the embroidered patch. That's also a big no-no, according to the unwritten rules I am making up in my head as I write this.

As for what is "the standard", what if someone had pointed you to the heraldry standards of Her Majesty's Canadian Government? Absent any CAP regulation saying the USAF heraldry standards apply to CAP, the Canadian ones have just as much force and effect over CAP patches as the USAF ones do. If you're going to be a rules stickler, make sure the rules you are stickling about actually apply!
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on March 26, 2013, 06:34:32 PM
Great job on the lettering of your patch. Too bad you violated the USAF rules for use of the Wings logo. I don't have a ruler handy, but it seems you did not keep a 15% stand-off space around the symbol. You also distorted the symbol on the produced patch, a big no-no for the USAF. http://www.trademark.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-120213-033.pdf (http://www.trademark.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-120213-033.pdf).

Incorrect at the time the patch was both created and approved.   The prop and triangle you see there is one of CAP's historic shields.

If you don't want to discuss this like an adult, that's fine.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Ratatouille on March 26, 2013, 06:40:48 PM
When you send your design in, specify the lettering should follow the edge of the scroll. Any decent patch company can make that change easily enough. If you have an example of a patch with the letter format you want to use, include it and tell them make the lettering like that. Simple.

In my experience in getting stuff printed/embroidered (I was the equipment manager for an EMS squad in college), printers charge an arm and a leg for their graphics people to modify a design. My squadron has better things to spend money on (e.g. fulfilling our missions), so I wanted to keep costs down.

Honestly, I don't see a problem with how the lettering is on my patch, especially when embroidered. Yes, it looks a bit odd when you see the patch at full resolution and much larger than it would ever be printed, but nobody would ever see it like that. Would it have been nicer if I had skewed the letters? Maybe. Is it as bad as Eclipse makes it out to be? No. Is it a violation of rules so egregious that it will cause Hap Arnold to rise again and kill us all to avenge the insult? No, not even a little.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on March 26, 2013, 06:44:06 PM
^ Again, this is supposed to be a message thread where people display and comment on patches that are posted.

You posted a patch, people commented, then you get defensive and try and mischaracterize what I said.

This has nothing to do with how your unit spends money, whether Hap Arnold would care, or if its a "big deal".

You posted your patch, voluntarily, and then get defensive about the accurate comments made.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Ratatouille on March 26, 2013, 06:47:32 PM
Great job on the lettering of your patch. Too bad you violated the USAF rules for use of the Wings logo. I don't have a ruler handy, but it seems you did not keep a 15% stand-off space around the symbol. You also distorted the symbol on the produced patch, a big no-no for the USAF. http://www.trademark.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-120213-033.pdf (http://www.trademark.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-120213-033.pdf).

Incorrect at the time the patch was both created and approved.   The prop and triangle you see there is one of CAP's historic shields.

If you don't want to discuss this like an adult, that's fine.
And where in the rules  of CAP heraldry does it say you can use historical CAP symbols? My whole point in this conversation is that absent CAP regulations saying we must adhere to heraldry standards of any sort (CAP, USAF, USAAC, Australian, etc), no rules actually apply. You therefore cannot fault someone for not following rules that don't apply to them.

You followed the USAF heraldry rules? Awesome! Seriously, great job doing that, and I really like your patch's design. I assume you also followed the CAP rules regarding Wing approval. Awesome, so did I! So we both met our obligations under the CAP regs. Anything more than that is pointless rules wankering.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Ratatouille on March 26, 2013, 06:56:19 PM
^ Again, this is supposed to be a message thread where people display and comment on patches that are posted.

You posted a patch, people commented, then you get defensive and try and mischaracterize what I said.

This has nothing to do with how your unit spends money, whether Hap Arnold would care, or if its a "big deal".

You posted your patch, voluntarily, and then get defensive about the accurate comments made.

Of the 37 pages of this thread, about half the posts are people discussing patches without posting images. You're quite right though, I should have listened to my own advise to new members to avoid posting on CAPTalk, as every thread devolves into pointless rule wankering by self-appointed "experts". To whoever is reading this thread in hopes of coming up with a good design of their own, good luck, and go with what you feel is right for your squadron, even if it wouldn't be "approved" by some of the people on CAPTalk.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: SarDragon on March 26, 2013, 07:07:00 PM
Have you consulted CAPR 900-2 regarding the use of various CAP symbols? Those rules are very specific, and newly revised in 12/31/2012.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on March 26, 2013, 07:07:29 PM
To whoever is reading this thread in hopes of coming up with a good design of their own, good luck, and go with what you feel is right for your squadron, even if it wouldn't be "approved" by some of the people on CAPTalk.

Right.

Because receiving  advice and criticism about proper shape, color, use of various representations, etc., serves no purpose, whatsoever.

There are a lot of people here with a lot of experience, many of us have made mistakes, poor choices, or went in directions for various things
where people disagreed. 

Adults accept that criticism, positive or negative, and take from it what they can, or make an case in their favor.

One thing that no gets here is carte blanche acceptance "just because".

Have you consulted CAPR 900-2 regarding the use of various CAP symbols? Those rules are very specific, and newly revised in 12/31/2012.

Yes, in regards to the patch I posted today.  At the time of its design and approval, it was fully compliant.  It remains to be seen whether it will need to be redone based on 900-2's
update.  There are a >lot< of unit insignia and other collateral that contain that image which will probably need to be changed. 

Luckily changing it would be a simple process and it only effects a small group of members.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Ratatouille on March 26, 2013, 07:13:24 PM
Have you consulted CAPR 900-2 regarding the use of various CAP symbols? Those rules are very specific, and newly revised in 12/31/2012.
The patch was approved prior to the revision of CAPR 900-2.  The new version at least does not prohibit making derivatives of the various CAP designs.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Ratatouille on March 26, 2013, 07:21:35 PM
To whoever is reading this thread in hopes of coming up with a good design of their own, good luck, and go with what you feel is right for your squadron, even if it wouldn't be "approved" by some of the people on CAPTalk.

Right.

Because receiving  advice and criticism about proper shape, color, use of various representations, etc., serves no purpose, whatsoever.

There are a lot of people here with a lot of experience, many of us have made mistakes, poor choices, or went in directions for various things
where people disagreed. 

Adults accept that criticism, positive or negative, and take from it what they can, or make an case in their favor.

One thing that no gets here is carte blanche acceptance "just because".


"That design won't embroider right, trust me, I had the same problem" or "that color is a bit off" or even "you should skew those letters" are perfectly valid criticisms. "It's not the shape that rules that don't apply to us say it should be" isn't valid.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: GroundHawg on March 26, 2013, 10:23:58 PM
Can anyone point me to the Official Civil Air Patrol Heraldry Rules and Regulations regarding squadron patches? What about an ICL to 39-1?

As far as I know, you can design what ever you want and as long as the wing commander signs off on it, you are good to go.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: RiverAux on March 26, 2013, 11:07:43 PM
Can anyone point me to the Official Civil Air Patrol Heraldry Rules and Regulations regarding squadron patches? What about an ICL to 39-1?

As far as I know, you can design what ever you want and as long as the wing commander signs off on it, you are good to go.

Keeping in mind that some wings do have standards....
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Private Investigator on March 27, 2013, 05:57:34 AM
As for the map within the triangle, this was approved by NYWg, so it doesn't seem anyone had a problem with it.

Have you been on Wing Staff? 50% is really knowledgeable and goes strictly by rules, regs, etc and 50% will approve anything. It depends on who was there that evening.  ;)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Private Investigator on March 27, 2013, 05:59:28 AM
Can anyone point me to the Official Civil Air Patrol Heraldry Rules and Regulations regarding squadron patches? What about an ICL to 39-1?

As far as I know, you can design what ever you want and as long as the wing commander signs off on it, you are good to go.

One Senior Squadron has Elvis Pressley on their Squadron patch, "we find the lost!" Who would approve that?   ::)
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: ColonelJack on March 27, 2013, 06:18:44 AM
Can anyone point me to the Official Civil Air Patrol Heraldry Rules and Regulations regarding squadron patches? What about an ICL to 39-1?

As far as I know, you can design what ever you want and as long as the wing commander signs off on it, you are good to go.

One Senior Squadron has Elvis Pressley on their Squadron patch, "we find the lost!" Who would approve that?   ::)

Probably the same authority that approved our unit's patch ... Elvis ... with the saying, "If he is out there, we will find him."

Jack
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: GroundHawg on March 27, 2013, 08:28:08 AM
Can anyone point me to the Official Civil Air Patrol Heraldry Rules and Regulations regarding squadron patches? What about an ICL to 39-1?

As far as I know, you can design what ever you want and as long as the wing commander signs off on it, you are good to go.

Keeping in mind that some wings do have standards....

Wing supplements aside, there are no rules, regulations, standards, etc... You are "encouraged" to follow USAF Heraldry standards.
If the wing commander says it good to go, it is. All the same people that always say "cite please" dont like it, but that is the way it is.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Eclipse on March 27, 2013, 10:19:29 AM
Wing supplements aside, there are no rules, regulations, standards, etc... You are "encouraged" to follow USAF Heraldry standards.  If the wing commander says it good to go, it is. All the same people that always say "cite please" dont like it, but that is the way it is.

No one has said anything different, however when there is an established standard, required or not, and you
choose to swim upstream, that smacks of "You can't, I won't, you can't make me...", which is a huge problem in CAP.
Title: Re: The Best of Squadron Patches
Post by: Pylon on March 27, 2013, 01:34:23 PM
Good job, gents, getting a thread locked which has been posted in continuously since 2006 without problem.   ::)