CAP Talk

Operations => Emergency Services & Operations => Topic started by: HighFlyer on April 11, 2020, 04:42:10 pm

Title: ES Technician Rating
Post by: HighFlyer on April 11, 2020, 04:42:10 pm
I'm stuck on the "Participate in 3 training or actual missions after being qualified".  I'm currently TMP, MS, MRO, MSA, UDF, GTM3 and GTL qualified.

My question is:

Do these 3 missions need to be performed in a specific specialty after qualified in that specialty, or does a training mission for say GTL after being qualified as GTM count as one of these missions?

Also, would separate sorties under the same mission number count as long as you perform all aspects of that mission.
Title: Re: ES Technician Rating
Post by: Eclipse on April 11, 2020, 05:29:28 pm
Any mission.

It says mission not sorties, so no.
Title: Re: ES Technician Rating
Post by: arajca on April 11, 2020, 06:06:03 pm
Actually, CAPR 60-3 says:
QuoteThese  two  "missions"  do  not  have  to  be  on  different  mission  numbers,  be  AFAMs,  or  be  completed  after  all  other  advanced  training  is  complete,  but  personnel  must  have  completed  all  familiarization and preparatory training in order to receive credit for these sorties.  These sorties must be complete sorties and/or operating periods where the member participates in all aspects of their  assigned  mission  specialty.    It  is  possible  to  participate  in  more  than  one  specialty  on  a  given mission or day. 
Therefore, two sories on the same mission number count.
Title: Re: ES Technician Rating
Post by: Eclipse on April 11, 2020, 06:14:37 pm
You're quoting the reg for Operator Qualification, not PD specialty.

The PD specialty is about managing ES, not be an operator.  I wouldn't sign off
on someone doing it all on one day, but ultimately approval is the subjective acceptance
of the mentor and Commander.
Title: Re: ES Technician Rating
Post by: Holding Pattern on April 11, 2020, 07:49:51 pm
Quote from: HighFlyer on April 11, 2020, 04:42:10 pmI'm stuck on the "Participate in 3 training or actual missions after being qualified".  I'm currently TMP, MS, MRO, MSA, UDF, GTM3 and GTL qualified.

My question is:

Do these 3 missions need to be performed in a specific specialty after qualified in that specialty, or does a training mission for say GTL after being qualified as GTM count as one of these missions?

Also, would separate sorties under the same mission number count as long as you perform all aspects of that mission.

The pamphlet simply says "Participate."

You can be the person at the registration desk on three separate mission numbers and that meets the letter of the Pamphlet.

Ultimately that becomes the discretion of the Mentor/Commander as to what level of "participation" in a mission qualifies.

Separate sorties do not count, but it won't take you long to be on 3 mission numbers. a DOD COMMEX, a local training, and a wing COMMEX got me there in my first year without trying.
Title: Re: ES Technician Rating
Post by: HighFlyer on April 11, 2020, 07:55:51 pm
I agree on the sorties in one day.  Mainly I was wondering if a member gets, for example, UDF qualified (does no UDF missions afterwards) but then trains on 3 missions for other qualifications if those would count.  Another example would be getting MS as your initial qual, then training for MO.  I'm assuming based on responses that would count, and it doesn't have to be in the original specialty you were qualified in.  Thanks for the responses!
Title: Re: ES Technician Rating
Post by: Holding Pattern on April 11, 2020, 08:16:17 pm
Quote from: HighFlyer on April 11, 2020, 07:55:51 pmI agree on the sorties in one day.  Mainly I was wondering if a member gets, for example, UDF qualified (does no UDF missions afterwards) but then trains on 3 missions for other qualifications if those would count.  Another example would be getting MS as your initial qual, then training for MO.  I'm assuming based on responses that would count, and it doesn't have to be in the original specialty you were qualified in.  Thanks for the responses!

Yes, those would count.
Title: Re: ES Technician Rating
Post by: etodd on April 11, 2020, 08:50:18 pm
Deleted as incorrect info.
Title: Re: ES Technician Rating
Post by: Eclipse on April 11, 2020, 09:50:43 pm
Again, you're talking about qualifications, not PD.

Also, ESOs don't "plan sorties".  Either you're signed into the mission as a qual or you're not.

An ESO "planning a sortie" who isn't signed into the mission, gets zero credit for the PD.
Title: Re: ES Technician Rating
Post by: Okayish Aviator on August 01, 2020, 12:59:58 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on April 11, 2020, 09:50:43 pmAgain, you're talking about qualifications, not PD.

Also, ESOs don't "plan sorties".  Either you're signed into the mission as a qual or you're not.

An ESO "planning a sortie" who isn't signed into the mission, gets zero credit for the PD.

Perhaps the fall back should be based on "operational period". Then again, you can find where it says an OP can be as little as 4hrs... but generally they are 12-24hrs based on the 47E or OpPlan so a single day wouldn't work but if you were on a mission for multiple days it would.
Title: Re: ES Technician Rating
Post by: coudano on August 01, 2020, 01:25:07 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on April 11, 2020, 06:14:37 pmYou're quoting the reg for Operator Qualification, not PD specialty.

The PD specialty is about managing ES, not be an operator.  I wouldn't sign off
on someone doing it all on one day, but ultimately approval is the subjective acceptance
of the mentor and Commander.

On the other hand, the qualification used to require 2x "mission participations" (without the paragraph that was added YEARS later, changing it to 2x sorties or OP's)

Not inconceivable that the ops pamphlet caught the intended update from the ops folks
but since pro dev (at the time) didn't fall under ops, then ops was not the OPR to change that pamphlet so the intended change may have just not made it across the lines on the org chart.

That sort of thing NEVER happens in CAP :)



FWIW I also do not agree with doing it all in one day.

On the other hand, suppose you are doing mission scanner training while flying along as self loading baggage on a proficiency flight...  That MISC mission is "1 mission" one mission number.   That mission is a year long.

What if you participated as lets say a ground team trainee twice during a long duration mission like a hurricane response or covid, and your participations spanned across weeks or months.

End of the day, somebody needs to apply some common sense and good judgement.
Good luck :)