CAP Talk

Operations => Emergency Services & Operations => Topic started by: usaf_defender on April 09, 2020, 11:19:56 am

Title: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: usaf_defender on April 09, 2020, 11:19:56 am
Does anyone know CAP HQ's reasoning for the inclusion of IS-3: Radiological Emergency Management and IS-5A: An Introduction to Hazardous Materials in the SQTR's?  I know we had a cold war era mission that no longer exists but it's my understanding that those courses were added to the SQTR's relatively recently (2018?). 

For background, I'm a hazmat operator and weapons of mass destruction coordinator for a federal agency.  If the answer to my question isn't appropriate for the forum, send me a PM and I'll give you a gov email.  Really just asking for my own interest.
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: GZCP31 on April 09, 2020, 11:49:03 am
This was added for the sUAS operations qualifications. Some of the missions FEMA has for us such as Disaster Assessment require knowledge of the subjects to keep us safe. There have been instances where sUAS have been tasked to find objects such as chemical barrels that have floated away during flooding.

The "sUAS OPLAN Webinar" under sUAS briefings on the gocivilairpatrol site should provide you with the information you are looking for,
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: etodd on April 09, 2020, 02:49:09 pm
Quote from: GZCP31 on April 09, 2020, 11:49:03 amThis was added for the sUAS operations qualifications. Some of the missions FEMA has for us such as Disaster Assessment require knowledge of the subjects to keep us safe. There have been instances where sUAS have been tasked to find objects such as chemical barrels that have floated away during flooding.

The "sUAS OPLAN Webinar" under sUAS briefings on the gocivilairpatrol site should provide you with the information you are looking for,

Dittos to all that.  Plus things like train car derailments, truck spills, etc.

Its not that we are getting these calls now.  But it goes to adding to our qualifications and abilities, so that maybe in the future, a client will have a need we can fill.
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: usaf_defender on April 09, 2020, 07:48:57 pm
Thanks for the info guys! Very informative.


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Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: JC004 on April 10, 2020, 09:27:12 am
It's not all that long ago that we had a bunch of these patches around (ARM).  The program was moderately active, then became a high interest area after 9/11.  The anticipated needs change over time.  But certainly hazardous materials could be an issue in a disaster relief mission.  It's just hazard awareness - not active intervention work. 

(http://www.colgan.info/radmon.jpg)
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: PHall on April 10, 2020, 04:37:10 pm
Yep, many moons ago I had Aerial and Ground Radiological Monitor on my ES card.
This was back in the 70's and 80's. When the Cold War "ended" the program faded away.
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: TheSkyHornet on April 10, 2020, 05:30:47 pm
Every professional emergency response or accident response plan should include HAZMAT protocols.

In the airline industry, this is a must since aircraft accidents or incidents at maintenance locations, airfields, etc. have a high potential for HAZMAT/DG exposure, whether due to fuel, cargo, or service support materials.
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: Spam on April 10, 2020, 11:31:18 pm
Completely agree, Hornet. The professionals generally do (have plans). CAP, sadly generally does not have plans; we react, sometimes incorrectly.

Had we actual Wing level plans that we exercised in drills (SAREXs, DREXs, etc. in CAP parlance), and then used the resulting after action reviews to update those same OPPLANs, then I'd feel that we were close to being pros. But that's pretty rare in most CAP Wings.

At most, CAP plans exercises... and doesn't exercise plans, negotiated and coordinated or otherwise.

V/r
Spam
PS I also was one of the last ARM/GRMs. The training courses were sobering!
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: Professor Safety & Emergency Services on April 22, 2020, 07:48:25 pm
Quote from: usaf_defender on April 09, 2020, 11:19:56 amDoes anyone know CAP HQ's reasoning for the inclusion of IS-3: Radiological Emergency Management and IS-5A: An Introduction to Hazardous Materials in the SQTR's?  I know we had a cold war era mission that no longer exists but it's my understanding that those courses were added to the SQTR's relatively recently (2018?). 

For background, I'm a hazmat operator and weapons of mass destruction coordinator for a federal agency.  If the answer to my question isn't appropriate for the forum, send me a PM and I'll give you a gov email.  Really just asking for my own interest.

It has primarily been an informative add that gave the members the "Roles, Responsibilities, and Expectations" data that would create some confusion when part of an exercise. It is good information to know to keep people (members) from going beyond their scope of participation and response.
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: Eclipse on April 22, 2020, 08:12:35 pm
The only thing CAP members need to know about RADMON and HAZMAT is the same as they do for the dog tasking.

"STAY AWAY FROM THEM, it doesn't involve us."
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: MacGruff on April 24, 2020, 06:34:05 pm
I just started the IS-3 course. The online portion is expected to take 10 hours. Ooph!
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: PHall on April 24, 2020, 06:49:48 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on April 22, 2020, 08:12:35 pmThe only thing CAP members need to know about RADMON and HAZMAT is the same as they do for the dog tasking.

"STAY AWAY FROM THEM, it doesn't involve us."

Oh I don't know. I'd would like to know what hazards I may be facing and how to protect myself.
You know, that ORM stuff.
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: arajca on April 24, 2020, 06:56:15 pm
Quote from: MacGruff on April 24, 2020, 06:34:05 pmI just started the IS-3 course. The online portion is expected to take 10 hours. Ooph!

FEMA is not know for providing accurate course completion times for the IS courses. I think it took me 2 1/2 hours. Including the test.
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: Eclipse on April 24, 2020, 06:58:05 pm
Quote from: PHall on April 24, 2020, 06:49:48 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on April 22, 2020, 08:12:35 pmThe only thing CAP members need to know about RADMON and HAZMAT is the same as they do for the dog tasking.

"STAY AWAY FROM THEM, it doesn't involve us."

Oh I don't know. I'd would like to know what hazards I may be facing and how to protect myself.
You know, that ORM stuff.

Fair enough.

"None". 

(https://i.postimg.cc/mrcH0T5r/not.gif)  (No charge for the class.)
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: Capt Thompson on April 24, 2020, 07:16:10 pm
Quote from: MacGruff on April 24, 2020, 06:34:05 pmI just started the IS-3 course. The online portion is expected to take 10 hours. Ooph!


It's pretty dry reading as usual. The 10 hour quote assumes you will fall asleep a few times. I you can stay awake from start to finish, I'd say 2.5-3 hours is a fair guess.
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: Spam on April 24, 2020, 09:36:51 pm
Heres the problem... Lack of specific guidance for low information CAP folks to quickly reference. Just a few years ago we had an F-16 crash here in Bulldog MOA for which CAP was called out. Pilots punched and were safe so we just needed to locate the wrecks. My unit at the time was specifically requested to deploy. I asked if they were aware that tge Viper APU used hydrazine (no idea what that is came the reply). One of the other unit GTLs who was an AD maint officer formerly at Shaw chimed in concurring and we declined to take volunteers without PPE into the terrain against a Hazmat site.   

Without that niche info and background we could have put volunteers into a contaminated incident site.

So... There's the ORM basis of analysis thats missing IMHO.

V/r
Spam
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: PHall on April 24, 2020, 09:54:27 pm
Even a modern automotive or aircraft battery has lots of stuff that you don't want to touch or breathe when it's been broken open or smashed.
Kinda hard to recognize a hazard if you don't know what to look for.

But, as some people keep saying over and over, it ain't going to happen.

I'd rather get educated so I know what to look for then to trust blind luck.
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: Eclipse on April 25, 2020, 12:19:09 am
Quote from: PHall on April 24, 2020, 09:54:27 pmEven a modern automotive or aircraft battery has lots of stuff that you don't want to touch or breathe when it's been broken open or smashed.
Kinda hard to recognize a hazard if you don't know what to look for.

But, as some people keep saying over and over, it ain't going to happen.

I'd rather get educated so I know what to look for then to trust blind luck.

Your cell phone has enough lithium in it to blow off your hip if you fall on it and break
the battery.

As an individual, feel free to educate yourself to the full extent of your ability.

PROTIP: McNuggets contain Tertiary butylhydroquinone and CAP members are far FAR
more likely to die from that then radiation exposure.

CAP training needs to be relevent to CAP missions and activities.
CAP members have zero business involved in anyway with incidents where
radiation or hazmat have been identified as being involved, not only is
it off the charts ORM-wise for volunteers, it's certainly and literally
never going to be and absolutely should not be in regards to UAS missions.

There are professionals who are trained and paid to take those risks.

As it stands now, we can't even get people to wear proper PPE when they are
prepping and handing out meals, let alone flying a drone through a bright green cloud.
Title: Re: Rad and HAZMAT FEMA Course
Post by: arajca on April 25, 2020, 01:25:04 am
When I was active in HazMat response, there were three levels of HazMat training for responders - Awareness, Operations, and Technician. Awareness was geared toward cops. It was simple:
1. Identify you have a hazardous material
2. Withdraw and Isolate the area
3. Call for help

This is basically what the FEMA course is. Of course, CAP is not going to be called in to work with a hazmat incident. No one is suggesting that. However, that does not mean CAP may not stumble across hazardous materials during the prosecution of a SAR or DR incident.

Having the knowledge to identify you have a hazmat situation is very appropriate for CAP. And, of course, knowing what they need to do at that point is equally important.

I have 18 years of HazMat Technician training and experience. Yes, I was one of the guys in the fancy suits working with the methyl-ethyl-death.