CAP Talk

Operations => Safety => Topic started by: Live2Learn on October 06, 2018, 10:40:53 PM

Title: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: Live2Learn on October 06, 2018, 10:40:53 PM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-07/daylight-saving-switchover-affects-our-health/10344600 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-07/daylight-saving-switchover-affects-our-health/10344600)

At last there's some research that shows the needless clock changing isn't good for health or psyche. 
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: EMT-83 on October 06, 2018, 10:53:30 PM
An hour? Can't say that I've ever noticed, forward or back.
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: Eclipse on October 06, 2018, 11:06:11 PM
Old news / old assertions.

AFAIC the world should go to UTC across the board, but otherwise it's just Facebook fodder.
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: NIN on October 07, 2018, 09:30:18 AM
An hour? Can't say that I've ever noticed, forward or back.

My daughter is autistic, and while she can tell time (oh, boy.. don't miss lunch time.. she'll be there at 12:00:02 to tell you!), her circadian rhythm is very much based on the sun.  Each year as we approach the time changes, her behavior and schedule subtly change to the point where she's either agitated or constantly sleepy.  It starts about 3 weeks before and lasts 2-3 weeks after.

I'd say the same thing: An hour? Who cares?  But man, let me tell you, it throws her schedule & mood, and subsequently the family pattern, right out the window sometimes.

I too vote for UTC across the board. It will take a few years to for people to remember that lunch is 1600 UTC on the east coast, not 1200 Quebec...
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: EMT-83 on October 07, 2018, 09:53:59 AM
^ Since the symptoms start well before the time change, they're probably related to the natural effects of the changing seasons and not the man-made one.
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: Live2Learn on October 07, 2018, 09:58:57 AM

I too vote for UTC across the board. It will take a few years to for people to remember that lunch is 1600 UTC on the east coast, not 1200 Quebec...

+1 (with caveats).

I've tried UTC.  It's appealing for its universality.  But, without UTC being the 'norm' constant calc's to covert to local were a PITA.

It's an old debate, for sure.  We can tell how old by the 'oldsters’ who say
Old news / old assertions....

What's new is published research to spport nay sayers.   :)

FWIW, the sensible solution (stay with standard time) seems to be gaining traction in the US and elsewhere.  :) :) :)
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: Eclipse on October 07, 2018, 10:06:56 AM
What's new is published research to spport nay sayers.   :)

Most of the studies cited in the article are at least 10 years old.
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: NIN on October 07, 2018, 11:05:21 AM
^ Since the symptoms start well before the time change, they're probably related to the natural effects of the changing seasons and not the man-made one.

Oh, totally... They're related to sunrise/sunset, etc.

If its dark/getting dark, she's like "time for bed.."  NVM that its 4:30 on a Saturday in December.

Sometimes its like living with a hibernating animal :)
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: PHall on October 07, 2018, 11:18:49 AM
^ Since the symptoms start well before the time change, they're probably related to the natural effects of the changing seasons and not the man-made one.

Oh, totally... They're related to sunrise/sunset, etc.

If its dark/getting dark, she's like "time for bed.."  NVM that its 4:30 on a Saturday in December.

Sometimes its like living with a hibernating animal :)

She has a "pure" circadian rhythm that isn't affected by man made things like clocks.
Except for lunch time! ;)
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: NIN on October 07, 2018, 12:49:34 PM
She has a "pure" circadian rhythm that isn't affected by man made things like clocks.
Except for lunch time! ;)

"Pizza!"
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: Live2Learn on October 08, 2018, 10:49:50 AM
She has a "pure" circadian rhythm that isn't affected by man made things like clocks.
Except for lunch time! ;)

Pavlov might take exception to your posited exception.  But, pizza can overcome even science (and our better judgment).  :)
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: TarRiverRat on October 10, 2018, 07:50:58 PM
Old Indian Saying: 

Only white man can cut an inch off bottom of blanket and sew it on top and think they have a longer blanket.    >:D
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: Live2Learn on October 10, 2018, 11:12:10 PM
Old Indian Saying: 

Only white man can cut an inch off bottom of blanket and sew it on top and think they have a longer blanket.    >:D

Nah, it was a creature of OPEC (with a little help from Nixon & Congress in 1973).

Here's the real reason we ought to just junk the idea (45 years seems long enough to disprove it's worth).

(https://www.ocregister.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/207741_600.jpg?w=600)
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: PHall on October 10, 2018, 11:39:32 PM
Daylight savings time was around long before 1973. World War II to be exact...
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: SarDragon on October 11, 2018, 04:45:46 AM
Daylight savings time was around long before 1973. World War II to be exact...
Actually, in the US, it goes all the way back to around WWI. DST was adopted in the United States by the Standard Time Act of March 19, 1918, which confirmed the existing standard time zone system and set summer DST to begin on March 31, 1918 (reverting October 27).
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: Live2Learn on October 11, 2018, 03:50:56 PM
Daylight savings time was around long before 1973. World War II to be exact...
Actually, in the US, it goes all the way back to around WWI. DST was adopted in the United States by the Standard Time Act of March 19, 1918, which confirmed the existing standard time zone system and set summer DST to begin on March 31, 1918 (reverting October 27).

And we've yet to learn it ain't such a good deal. 
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: PHall on October 11, 2018, 06:26:22 PM
Daylight savings time was around long before 1973. World War II to be exact...
Actually, in the US, it goes all the way back to around WWI. DST was adopted in the United States by the Standard Time Act of March 19, 1918, which confirmed the existing standard time zone system and set summer DST to begin on March 31, 1918 (reverting October 27).

And we've yet to learn it ain't such a good deal.

Well, you could move to Arizona or Hawaii. Both states don't do Daylight Savings Time.
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: etodd on October 11, 2018, 10:20:13 PM
When I hear someone say "Fall Back", first thing I think of is "Yes! We can grab some night currency early."  After 6:30 its logging as night. After Spring Forward you have to be out there flying at 10pm.
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: PHall on October 11, 2018, 11:57:14 PM
Anything after Civil Twilight is considered "Night" by the FAA and the Military.
Never mind you still have enough light to read a newspaper...
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: Live2Learn on October 12, 2018, 12:45:38 PM

Well, you could move to Arizona or Hawaii. Both states don't do Daylight Savings Time.

That's an option.  A better one is to junk the concept of DST in all 50 states.  The benefis were grossly oversold.
Title: Re: Ritualized jet lag, the annual game of Daylight Savings time
Post by: Blanding on October 12, 2018, 12:55:05 PM
Anything after Civil Twilight is considered "Night" by the FAA and the Military.
Never mind you still have enough light to read a newspaper...

True; however, for the purposes of carrying passengers during the period 1 hour after sunset (and for what's commonly called "night currency") the pilot must have conducted their 3 landings to a full stop during that period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise. (ref Part 61.57) which makes it challenging to stay current during the summer.