CAP Talk

General Discussion => Uniforms & Awards => Topic started by: Capmonkey on June 03, 2018, 02:24:53 PM

Title: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: Capmonkey on June 03, 2018, 02:24:53 PM
Hey, guys.
     I had a question arise from a cadet at a CAC meeting that I didn't quite know the answer too. I've asked people, reg-hunted, the whole 9 yards. Are you required to salute the flag six paces before and 6 paces after? For example, walking across the street and you pass a flag, do you salute? I ended up finding the C+C section in Level 1 for the SM's that says if it's uncased, such as in a parade, but this part left me confused. Would ya'll mind helping me out? If we are supposed to, I'd like to begin implementing it, as some cadets do salute, and some don't.

Sincerely,
C/Maj Capmonkey

PS: If I put this question in the wrong spot, feel free to move it to wherever is appropriate!
Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: Eclipse on June 03, 2018, 02:28:20 PM
No.  You don't salute a posted flag.
Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: Capmonkey on June 03, 2018, 02:31:00 PM
Thank you, sir. The Level 1 was the only place where I could find anything about it. Would you happen to know if any reg says it, besides Level 1? The CAC Chairman is one that does salute the posted flag, and I'd like to bring this up to him, with documentation and proof, if that makes sense.

Thank you!
C/Maj Capmokey
Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: Ned on June 03, 2018, 02:38:56 PM
See CAPP, 151, Respect on Display

"The answer lies within."
Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: Capmonkey on June 03, 2018, 02:39:53 PM
Thank you, sir. I'll be sure to look this up.

Thanks for all of your help, gentlemen!
C/Maj Capmonkey
Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: Capmonkey on June 03, 2018, 02:46:57 PM
I found the answer I was looking for! "It is not customary to salute stationary flagstaffs, except when the National Anthem or to the colors plays."

Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: TheSkyHornet on June 04, 2018, 02:40:55 PM
Keep in mind that saluting in CAP is not based on the number of paces individuals are from one another (except for reporting at 2 paces away). You salute at "a fair distance."
Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: coudano on June 04, 2018, 02:56:34 PM
You will find the reference(s) you are referring to here (amongst other places)
http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi34-1201/afi34-1201.pdf
Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on June 04, 2018, 04:14:00 PM
Why the reference to an AFI? We are the Civil Air Patrol, United States Air Force Auxiliary with our own sets of regulations and manuals. We should not be looking for AFIs if the manuals, pamphlets, and regulations we have are lacking. If they are lacking, maybe they are lacking on purpose. Probably the authors believed, and those who approved their work, believed they need not be that rigorous!

Where does it end? The Department of Defense has their own sets of regulations apart from the branches. If we find an AFI lacking, are we going to look at the DODI???


Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: lordmonar on June 04, 2018, 05:58:57 PM
Why the reference to an AFI? We are the Civil Air Patrol, United States Air Force Auxiliary with our own sets of regulations and manuals. We should not be looking for AFIs if the manuals, pamphlets, and regulations we have are lacking. If they are lacking, maybe they are lacking on purpose. Probably the authors believed, and those who approved their work, believed they need not be that rigorous!

Where does it end? The Department of Defense has their own sets of regulations apart from the branches. If we find an AFI lacking, are we going to look at the DODI???
When it comes to customs and courtesies.......to the USAF and rules and regulations and traditions is EXACTLY the place we look to.
I'll just leave it here.

The OP got the correct answer about five posts back.  The rest is just icing. and the rest typical CAPTALK background noise.

Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: kwe1009 on June 04, 2018, 06:15:28 PM
Why the reference to an AFI? We are the Civil Air Patrol, United States Air Force Auxiliary with our own sets of regulations and manuals. We should not be looking for AFIs if the manuals, pamphlets, and regulations we have are lacking. If they are lacking, maybe they are lacking on purpose. Probably the authors believed, and those who approved their work, believed they need not be that rigorous!

Where does it end? The Department of Defense has their own sets of regulations apart from the branches. If we find an AFI lacking, are we going to look at the DODI???
When it comes to customs and courtesies.......to the USAF and rules and regulations and traditions is EXACTLY the place we look to.
I'll just leave it here.

The OP got the correct answer about five posts back.  The rest is just icing. and the rest typical CAPTALK background noise.

I don't agree.  If CAP has a publication that covers a topic then it trumps any publication from anywhere else.  We are CAP, not USAF.
Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: lordmonar on June 04, 2018, 06:18:21 PM
Why the reference to an AFI? We are the Civil Air Patrol, United States Air Force Auxiliary with our own sets of regulations and manuals. We should not be looking for AFIs if the manuals, pamphlets, and regulations we have are lacking. If they are lacking, maybe they are lacking on purpose. Probably the authors believed, and those who approved their work, believed they need not be that rigorous!

Where does it end? The Department of Defense has their own sets of regulations apart from the branches. If we find an AFI lacking, are we going to look at the DODI???
When it comes to customs and courtesies.......to the USAF and rules and regulations and traditions is EXACTLY the place we look to.
I'll just leave it here.

The OP got the correct answer about five posts back.  The rest is just icing. and the rest typical CAPTALK background noise.

I don't agree.  If CAP has a publication that covers a topic then it trumps any publication from anywhere else.  We are CAP, not USAF.
In this case it does.   Please note the context of Mr. Ramos' comments.  If a CAP publication is lacking...........we look to the USAF for guidance. 
Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: lordmonar on June 05, 2018, 07:15:24 PM
If a CAP is lacking, we should not look for USAF guidance unless instructed so in advance.

Otherwise there is no end in sight.

We would have to accept any branch interpretation.
Why?  We are not the ANY BRANCH AUXILIARY....we are the USAF Auxiliary.   Your slippery slope argument just does not wash.

Quote
Also one way of doing things changes over time according to training.

One example. 15 years ago, you could wear a Unit Citation Ribbon if your unit was involved but you were not a member when it was awarded. Now you cannot wear the Unit Citation Ribbon unless you were a member when it was awarded.
?? ?? What's that have to do with looking to the USAF for guidance?     I was not in CAP 15 years ago...so I can't say for sure what the regs said back then.....but notice how now the regs match what the USAF does?   That's because we look to the USAF to write our regs in the first place.   Heck 39-1 often refers you to the 36-2901 for guidance on several occasions.   
Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: Eclipse on June 05, 2018, 07:24:27 PM
Heck 39-1 often refers you to the 36-29013 for guidance on several occasions.   

Only conversationally as to why a given change was made, and for the list of military badges authorized on a USAF uniform.

All references to 36-2903 in 39-1 could be removed and there would be no material change to 39-1.
Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: I_Am_Twigs on June 05, 2018, 09:38:45 PM
Quote
CAPP 60-33 1.1.2. References. This pamphlet is derived from Air Force Manual (AFMAN) 36-2203, Drill
and Ceremonies, Air Force Instruction (AFI) 34-1201, Protocol, AFPAM 34-1202, Guide to Protocol,
and for rifle manual of arms, Army Training Circular (TC) 3-21.5 Drill and Ceremonies. It is specific
to the needs of CAP units and activities, and in some cases provides more detail than is found in
AFMAN 36-2203. The pamphlet stays as close to U.S. Air Force (USAF) drill as described in AFMAN
36-2203. In cases where there is no USAF guidance CAP relies on tradition or the guidance found
in other military componentsí drill manuals.

Bold is my emphasis.

Can't we just move on from this? We basically have the same regs as the USAF. I see absolutely no problem for looking to them for guidance when needed, as long as CAP regs are #1.
Title: Re: Saluting the Flag Six Paces Before and after?
Post by: SarDragon on June 07, 2018, 06:23:52 AM
I split off the Unit Citation stuff to a new thread.