CAP Talk

Operations => Safety => Topic started by: Live2Learn on May 04, 2018, 03:11:51 PM

Title: 2018 Apr 4 intersection crash between departing C150 and landing CJ Bizjet
Post by: Live2Learn on May 04, 2018, 03:11:51 PM
This accident is both tragic, and unsurprising.  http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018/04/cessna-150-n5614e-and-cessna-525c.html (http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018/04/cessna-150-n5614e-and-cessna-525c.html).  More than once while inbound or in the pattern at non-towered airports  I've heard inbound IFR aircraft on Center, but not on CTAF.  In this case the CJ pilot compounded his failure to announce inbound on CTAF with another error by making a long straight in approach, and finally by his supreme confidence that his TCAS would alert him to other traffic in the pattern.  It's not yet known whether the C150 transponder was operating, or even if it had one.  However two witnesses heard the C150 pilot report his takeoff roll on the CTAF.  I recall a flight in a CAP 182T where the three of us (all pilots) in the other seats were amazed that the PIC stared at the glass and never looked out of the window from rotation to short final.  This accident is a good reminder that not everyone will equip with ADS/B, and not every aircraft has (or uses) a transponder.  It's well known that radios are an important safety tool.  But they are only effective if we use 'em.  It's also well known that we still share the national airspace with lots of NORDO aircraft.  Perhaps not known by some pilots is that we'll STILL share the N.A.S. with NORDO aircraft after 2020 Jan 1.  And lastly, one very important purpose for an traffic pattern is to enhance the likelihood that we'll see other aircraft.  Yeah, that "see and avoid" stuff.  Eyes outside, please.
Title: Re: 2018 Apr 4 intersection crash between departing C150 and landing CJ Bizjet
Post by: PHall on May 04, 2018, 03:30:21 PM
In the CAP C-182, did anybody in the plane say anything to the PIC about him not looking out?
Title: Re: 2018 Apr 4 intersection crash between departing C150 and landing CJ Bizjet
Post by: Live2Learn on May 07, 2018, 07:00:27 PM
In the CAP C-182, did anybody in the plane say anything to the PIC about him not looking out?

You raise an excellent point.  In a nutshell "no", at least not directly.  Throughout the flight the collective pilots NF were looking out and calling traffic.  So indirectly there was some awareness raising conversation.  However, I learned from that (and other life experiences) that "See Something - Say Something" is easier to advocate than do.  Since then I've done better at it.  I don't know if others in the cockpit on that flight about six years ago have, or have not.  Hence, I mention the event from time to time in conversations and when I talk about CRM. 
Title: Re: 2018 Apr 4 intersection crash between departing C150 and landing CJ Bizjet
Post by: PHall on May 07, 2018, 08:52:19 PM
In the CAP C-182, did anybody in the plane say anything to the PIC about him not looking out?

You raise an excellent point.  In a nutshell "no", at least not directly.  Throughout the flight the collective pilots NF were looking out and calling traffic.  So indirectly there was some awareness raising conversation.  However, I learned from that (and other life experiences) that "See Something - Say Something" is easier to advocate than do.  Since then I've done better at it.  I don't know if others in the cockpit on that flight about six years ago have, or have not.  Hence, I mention the event from time to time in conversations and when I talk about CRM.

Airplanes don't crash by the seat. If you value your life say something. And yes I've been through more then a few CRM classes during my annual week in the Sim.
Title: Re: 2018 Apr 4 intersection crash between departing C150 and landing CJ Bizjet
Post by: jeders on May 08, 2018, 09:25:08 AM
In the CAP C-182, did anybody in the plane say anything to the PIC about him not looking out?

This reminds me of a flight I took a few years ago at a SAREX. We were flying a 182/G1000 that the pilot wasn't completely familiar with. During takeoff and landing he flew with his eyes outside the cockpit, but during every other phase of the flight he would get his nose buried in the G1000. Yes, I did mention it to him, many many many times. I have never been happier to be back on the ground.
Title: Re: 2018 Apr 4 intersection crash between departing C150 and landing CJ Bizjet
Post by: Live2Learn on May 08, 2018, 08:21:38 PM
Some of us may recall a double fatality night flight in NVWG soon after the eye cockpit candy (aka "G1000) first appeared.  Even very high time pilots can fall victim to the dancing colors and an autopilot/heading bug. 

At least hand flying encourages occasional glances outside.   :o