CAP Talk

General Discussion => Membership => Topic started by: Fester on January 28, 2018, 11:59:13 PM

Title: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Fester on January 28, 2018, 11:59:13 PM
Hello, I am a former Eaker Award recipient.  I am considering rejoining in the Senior program.  I'm curious how I would go about documenting the Eaker Award (after 20 years, I have NO idea where the certificate is and the Squadron I was a member of would in no way still have my personnel file) and  the previous decorations and awards I received? 

I have the Date and Number of the Eaker Award and I have Press Releases for the major decorations.  Do you think these would be sufficient?
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: arajca on January 29, 2018, 12:08:16 AM
They should be. I was able to get my Earhart listed using only a scan from CAPNews Cadet Awards List. And it was pre-Eaker.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: jb512 on January 29, 2018, 12:10:08 AM
My Mitchell award from 1991 showed up, along with my original CAP ID so there's a good chance yours will too.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: OldGuy on January 29, 2018, 12:18:34 AM
I have the Date and Number of the Eaker Award and I have Press Releases for the major decorations.  Do you think these would be sufficient?
That should. Got almost all mine back after 40 years. It is doable. Welcome back!
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: OldGuy on January 29, 2018, 01:32:41 AM
BTW your Earhart qualifies you for near automatic promotion to 1st Lt and the Cadet Program Badge.

https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/facebook_achievements/earhart-award/

 Within Civil Air Patrol they are now eligible to participate in the International Air Cadet Exchange Program.  Any cadet who has earned this award, and who later enters CAP's Senior Member program, is eligible for immediate promotion to CAP First Lieutenant  at age 21 and credited with the technician rating in the Cadet Programs Officer Specialty Track

Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: OldGuy on January 29, 2018, 01:35:32 AM
Your Eaker also has benefits:

Any cadet who has earned this award, and who later enters CAP's Senior Member program, is credited with Squadron Leadership School and completion of Level II.

https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/facebook_achievements/eaker-award
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Fester on January 29, 2018, 01:39:07 AM
Your Eaker also has benefits:

Any cadet who has earned this award, and who later enters CAP's Senior Member program, is credited with Squadron Leadership School and completion of Level II.

https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/facebook_achievements/eaker-award

Correct.  If I've read the regs correctly, I will have to take Level I because it's been more than a 2 year gap, but with NHQ approval, after that I can be granted 1Lt, SLS Completion, OBC Completion, CP Tech Level and Level II (Davis Award.)
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: SarDragon on January 29, 2018, 02:13:49 AM
A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: OldGuy on January 29, 2018, 02:16:48 AM
A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.
True. I am doing all the prereqs as well, but it is nice to get recognized for actual experience.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Fester on January 29, 2018, 02:49:17 AM
A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.

Yeah, I've considered that.  Or, at the very least, perusing all the course material for SLS and OBC online.  My understanding is if I include the Eaker Award info with my CAP F12, they will automatically mark those courses complete on eServices and I won't be able to complete them.  Is that correct?
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: dwb on January 29, 2018, 09:57:49 AM
I don't think the PD course credit will get automatically recorded. Even if it does, you can still enroll in them and re-record the credit.

They should still have your member records at Maxwell. Anyone who got a numbered Eaker is probably still in the database.

Welcome back to CAP! Indeed many things have changed, but we're still here creating dynamic Americans and aerospace leaders.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: TheSkyHornet on January 29, 2018, 10:02:53 AM
A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.

This.  :clap:

I had an in-depth discussion on this very subject over the weekend. The knowledge you will receive from formal training, rather than substitute for experience, is invaluable, just as that same experience is invaluable. Training and experience are complementary.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: NIN on January 29, 2018, 10:48:43 AM
Yeah, I've considered that.  Or, at the very least, perusing all the course material for SLS and OBC online.  My understanding is if I include the Eaker Award info with my CAP F12, they will automatically mark those courses complete on eServices and I won't be able to complete them.  Is that correct?

Two sorta-kinda separate places.

Provide your Eaker info to your squadron PDO. They're the ones who should be "doing the dirty work" to get your equivalences.

CAPR 50-17, Chapter 9, para 9-1b details how to get official recognition of that via written request.

Cadets who "flip over" don't get automagic recognition of their CP awards, even if they are recorded in eServices. You have to specifically request the equivalences for senior awards. (its one of my "blue to grey" transition plan fixes, too)


Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: coudano on January 29, 2018, 12:21:04 PM
There used to be a numerical list of the milestone awards.  I think it was being run from the field though.
I'm "sure?" that nhq should be able to match your name to an award number.
circa 1998 you were probably something in the 300's for an award number?

Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Holding Pattern on January 29, 2018, 12:26:40 PM
I don't think the PD course credit will get automatically recorded. Even if it does, you can still enroll in them and re-record the credit.

They should still have your member records at Maxwell. Anyone who got a numbered Eaker is probably still in the database.

Welcome back to CAP! Indeed many things have changed, but we're still here creating dynamic Americans and aerospace leaders.

It is a manual process outlined in the instructions module for PD entry.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: darkmatter on January 29, 2018, 02:07:01 PM
If you want and with your commanders concent you can receive credit for eaker awards promotion to 1st Lt but not SLS and orientation everything is conditional and subject to commanders approval.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Fester on January 29, 2018, 03:38:41 PM
There used to be a numerical list of the milestone awards.  I think it was being run from the field though.
I'm "sure?" that nhq should be able to match your name to an award number.
circa 1998 you were probably something in the 300's for an award number?

Eaker Award was #125.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: abdsp51 on January 29, 2018, 04:05:40 PM
BTW your Earhart qualifies you for near automatic promotion to 1st Lt and the Cadet Program Badge.

https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/facebook_achievements/earhart-award/

 Within Civil Air Patrol they are now eligible to participate in the International Air Cadet Exchange Program.  Any cadet who has earned this award, and who later enters CAP's Senior Member program, is eligible for immediate promotion to CAP First Lieutenant  at age 21 and credited with the technician rating in the Cadet Programs Officer Specialty Track

No promotion is automatic, especially advanced promotion.  It's all at tge CC's discretion.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: TheSkyHornet on January 29, 2018, 05:38:10 PM
BTW your Earhart qualifies you for near automatic promotion to 1st Lt and the Cadet Program Badge.

https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/facebook_achievements/earhart-award/

 Within Civil Air Patrol they are now eligible to participate in the International Air Cadet Exchange Program.  Any cadet who has earned this award, and who later enters CAP's Senior Member program, is eligible for immediate promotion to CAP First Lieutenant  at age 21 and credited with the technician rating in the Cadet Programs Officer Specialty Track

No promotion is automatic, especially advanced promotion.  It's all at the CC's discretion.

Then it isn't automatic.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: OldGuy on January 29, 2018, 05:49:58 PM
BTW your Earhart qualifies you for near automatic promotion to 1st Lt and the Cadet Program Badge.

https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/facebook_achievements/earhart-award/

 Within Civil Air Patrol they are now eligible to participate in the International Air Cadet Exchange Program.  Any cadet who has earned this award, and who later enters CAP's Senior Member program, is eligible for immediate promotion to CAP First Lieutenant  at age 21 and credited with the technician rating in the Cadet Programs Officer Specialty Track

No promotion is automatic, especially advanced promotion.  It's all at the CC's discretion.

Then it isn't automatic.

Eligible, not automatic. Have never heard of it being denied though. My Earhart predated my promotion to 1st Lt. by 40 years.

https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/facebook_achievements/earhart-award/

 Within Civil Air Patrol they are now eligible to participate in the International Air Cadet Exchange Program.  Any cadet who has earned this award, and who later enters CAP's Senior Member program, is eligible for immediate promotion to CAP First Lieutenant  at age 21 and credited with the technician rating in the Cadet Programs Officer Specialty Track

Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: OldGuy on January 29, 2018, 05:51:13 PM
A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.

This.  :clap:

I had an in-depth discussion on this very subject over the weekend. The knowledge you will receive from formal training, rather than substitute for experience, is invaluable, just as that same experience is invaluable. Training and experience are complementary.

Agreed, this is why I have done SLS, OBC and soon UCC. In person. The world is different today. Civil Air Patrol is in some ways and some things just never change. :)
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Fester on January 29, 2018, 05:57:55 PM
A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.

This.  :clap:

I had an in-depth discussion on this very subject over the weekend. The knowledge you will receive from formal training, rather than substitute for experience, is invaluable, just as that same experience is invaluable. Training and experience are complementary.

Agreed, this is why I have done SLS, OBC and soon UCC. In person. The world is different today. Civil Air Patrol is in some ways and some things just never change. :)

I understand.

It is nice to be given a leg up for all the time, work and sweat we put in 20 (or 40) years ago.  I haven't decided if I will seek credit for the items I am eligible for (and have earned) and then read through all the course material OR if I will waive seeking that credit and participate in those items.  I think the ideal solution would be for a "completed" item in eServices to be available to retake.  Which, I'm not certain, but it seems like that is not an option.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: arajca on January 29, 2018, 06:38:11 PM
While they don't do that with OBC, if you take SLS, CLC, TLC, and/or UCC again, they will update your records with the new date of completion. At least they did with my TLC.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: CAP9907 on January 30, 2018, 12:31:33 AM
Agree with the majority here. Your CAP experience is really out of date, esp with regards to the ICS and how we are ‘supposed’ to use it (assuming you want to do ES). With that said, our ES task guides are also badly out of date, but it is what we are using.

If you don’t want to get credit for the SLS, CLC, etc, then at least audit the courses. The information is mostly relevant and you will meet people and do some networking at the very least. YMMV,

9907

A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.

This.  :clap:

I had an in-depth discussion on this very subject over the weekend. The knowledge you will receive from formal training, rather than substitute for experience, is invaluable, just as that same experience is invaluable. Training and experience are complementary.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: OldGuy on January 30, 2018, 01:18:29 AM
Agree with the majority here. Your CAP experience is really out of date, esp with regards to the ICS and how we are ‘supposed’ to use it (assuming you want to do ES). With that said, our ES task guides are also badly out of date, but it is what we are using.

If you don’t want to get credit for the SLS, CLC, etc, then at least audit the courses. The information is mostly relevant and you will meet people and do some networking at the very least. YMMV,

9907

A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.

This.  :clap:

I had an in-depth discussion on this very subject over the weekend. The knowledge you will receive from formal training, rather than substitute for experience, is invaluable, just as that same experience is invaluable. Training and experience are complementary.

ES was the big change, comm changed - a lot, so has the Cadet Program. The Cadet Protection Program was so overdue and necessary!
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: CAPLTC on January 30, 2018, 11:20:11 AM
Meh...
If the reg says you can come in as a 1LT or CPT, do it; if you can get credit for OBC or SLS, likewise - do it.
Time is time is time - most valuable commodity we have as an adult.
Learn how eServices works and you'll very quickly get spun-up on "how CAP works in 2018." None of our Regs and Pams are phone books.

And...
our ES task guides are also badly out of date, but it is what we are using.

True ...
Our ES plans/policies/procedures are 20 years out of date.
It's unfortunate.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Fester on January 30, 2018, 02:33:38 PM
Meh...
If the reg says you can come in as a 1LT or CPT, do it; if you can get credit for OBC or SLS, likewise - do it.
Time is time is time - most valuable commodity we have as an adult.
Learn how eServices works and you'll very quickly get spun-up on "how CAP works in 2018." None of our Regs and Pams are phone books.

And...
our ES task guides are also badly out of date, but it is what we are using.

True ...
Our ES plans/policies/procedures are 20 years out of date.
It's unfortunate.

Yeah, that's probably what I'm going to do.  I haven't even joined yet and I've already audited many of the items that are required for Seniors.... Level I, Level II, all the CPPT info, OBC, SLS, GENES info, GT Info, MS and MO info, all of the specialty track task guides that I'm interested in.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: TheSkyHornet on January 30, 2018, 05:57:23 PM
Meh...
If the reg says you can come in as a 1LT or CPT, do it; if you can get credit for OBC or SLS, likewise - do it.
Time is time is time - most valuable commodity we have as an adult.
Learn how eServices works and you'll very quickly get spun-up on "how CAP works in 2018." None of our Regs and Pams are phone books.

It's not a matter of taking the promotion because you're eligible. Take the promotion. After all, in this organization, your grade is more of a symbol of experience than it is connected to your duty position/leadership role.

But now that you have that promotion, go back and re-take the class. It's not even a re-take as this point. After 20 years, it's a class you've never had, regardless of the grandfathering and "substitute" training. It doesn't hurt except for a small financial burden (what is it, $10 in our Wing?).
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: SarDragon on January 30, 2018, 10:37:05 PM
Amen to that.

Simply "auditing" SLS and TLC will be of little benefit, which is why we are encouraging attendance. There are exercises in the courses that are done as a group. The student interaction is a key part of the courses,
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Holding Pattern on January 31, 2018, 01:01:11 AM
A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.

This.  :clap:

I had an in-depth discussion on this very subject over the weekend. The knowledge you will receive from formal training, rather than substitute for experience, is invaluable, just as that same experience is invaluable. Training and experience are complementary.

Agreed, this is why I have done SLS, OBC and soon UCC. In person. The world is different today. Civil Air Patrol is in some ways and some things just never change. :)

I understand.

It is nice to be given a leg up for all the time, work and sweat we put in 20 (or 40) years ago.  I haven't decided if I will seek credit for the items I am eligible for (and have earned) and then read through all the course material OR if I will waive seeking that credit and participate in those items.  I think the ideal solution would be for a "completed" item in eServices to be available to retake.  Which, I'm not certain, but it seems like that is not an option.

I have absolutely zero doubt that if you asked to sit through SLS, CLC, etc a second time that anyone would give you grief.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Fester on January 31, 2018, 01:41:13 AM
A lot has changed in those 20 years. It would be beneficial to you, and those you lead, to actually complete the training areas you are asking for credit for. SLS is very different, OBC is all new, and the cadet program has also changed quite a bit. Your competency level will be very low if you try to rely on antique information that you learned 20+ years ago.

This.  :clap:

I had an in-depth discussion on this very subject over the weekend. The knowledge you will receive from formal training, rather than substitute for experience, is invaluable, just as that same experience is invaluable. Training and experience are complementary.

Agreed, this is why I have done SLS, OBC and soon UCC. In person. The world is different today. Civil Air Patrol is in some ways and some things just never change. :)

I understand.

It is nice to be given a leg up for all the time, work and sweat we put in 20 (or 40) years ago.  I haven't decided if I will seek credit for the items I am eligible for (and have earned) and then read through all the course material OR if I will waive seeking that credit and participate in those items.  I think the ideal solution would be for a "completed" item in eServices to be available to retake.  Which, I'm not certain, but it seems like that is not an option.

I have absolutely zero doubt that if you asked to sit through SLS, CLC, etc a second time that anyone would give you grief.

I'm sure.  But that is somewhat where the issue lies and why I'm not leaning towards not seeking credit for what I earned.  All of these activities occur on weekends.  Which is the worst absolute time of the week for me.  My profession doesn't allow for me to be off on weekends very often at all.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Holding Pattern on January 31, 2018, 01:50:29 AM
Then I would more strenuously urge you to seek the credit. All the course docs are available online; I'm of the firm opinion that if further PD options were denied to you because of a lack of SLS or CLC when you have the option to take the credit you'd kick yourself repeatedly for not taking the opportunity to have the credit when it was available.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Phil Hirons, Jr. on February 01, 2018, 02:03:55 PM
16 years ago next month (Mar 2018) I rejoined as a senior after 18 years out of the program. I got credit for my Earhart (had the cert). Eaker did not exist when I was a cadet and I could never find proof of my having been a C/Lt Col. I got the 1st Lt promotion but the credits described below did not exist at the time. I rejoined to payback the benefits I got from the cadet program.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: GaryVC on February 01, 2018, 02:33:48 PM
I got credit for my Earhart (had the cert). Eaker did not exist when I was a cadet.

The quoted items are true for me as well. I had some orders for C/Lt Col which I sent to NHQ but they didn't accept them. Not really a problem but I thought I would try. I don't have any proof that I was ever a part of the wing CAC and that when I participated in the substitute program for IACE in 1966 that we were awarded the ribbon. It was in CAP News but has apparently been lost in the mists of time.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Fester on February 01, 2018, 03:22:49 PM
16 years ago next month (Mar 2018) I rejoined as a senior after 18 years out of the program. I got credit for my Earhart (had the cert). Eaker did not exist when I was a cadet and I could never find proof of my having been a C/Lt Col. I got the 1st Lt promotion but the credits described below did not exist at the time. I rejoined to payback the benefits I got from the cadet program.

Understood.  Giving back is my main reason for rejoining.  I was afforded so many awesome opportunities as a cadet and I want to help make those available for the next generation.  That being said, my time is very limited so if I can get credit toward items in the SM program (I do want to progress in grade and take advantage of the PD program) I would rather do that so I can devote more time to giving back.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Fester on February 01, 2018, 03:24:38 PM
I got credit for my Earhart (had the cert). Eaker did not exist when I was a cadet.

The quoted items are true for me as well. I had some orders for C/Lt Col which I sent to NHQ but they didn't accept them. Not really a problem but I thought I would try. I don't have any proof that I was ever a part of the wing CAC and that when I participated in the substitute program for IACE in 1966 that we were awarded the ribbon. It was in CAP News but has apparently been lost in the mists of time.

Where did you exchange to?  IACE was always something I wanted to do  but didn't have the opportunity to.  FWIW, there are copies of a large portion of CAP newsletters online.  It looks like all 12 editions from 1966 are at http://history.cap.gov/document/49
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: OldGuy on February 01, 2018, 11:58:13 PM
16 years ago next month (Mar 2018) I rejoined as a senior after 18 years out of the program. I got credit for my Earhart (had the cert). Eaker did not exist when I was a cadet and I could never find proof of my having been a C/Lt Col. I got the 1st Lt promotion but the credits described below did not exist at the time. I rejoined to payback the benefits I got from the cadet program.

I have proof - squadron newsletters and travel orders, can an Eaker be awarded after the fact?
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Mitchell 1969 on February 02, 2018, 07:04:24 AM
16 years ago next month (Mar 2018) I rejoined as a senior after 18 years out of the program. I got credit for my Earhart (had the cert). Eaker did not exist when I was a cadet and I could never find proof of my having been a C/Lt Col. I got the 1st Lt promotion but the credits described below did not exist at the time. I rejoined to payback the benefits I got from the cadet program.

I have proof - squadron newsletters and travel orders, can an Eaker be awarded after the fact?

Mine was. I received it in 1997, which was 25 years after I was promoted to C/LtCol.

I submitted my Form 66 and several documents and orders that showed that I was a C/LtCol. No problem at all - except the certificate was not numbered. Fair enough.


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Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: GaryVC on February 02, 2018, 06:02:22 PM

Where did you exchange to? 

There was no AF airlift available in 1966 so the regions (apparently) were on the hook to do something. In Pacific Region we went to San Francisco (never was sure why) and spent a few days at Vandenburg AFB.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Fester on February 02, 2018, 06:52:23 PM

Where did you exchange to? 

There was no AF airlift available in 1966 so the regions (apparently) were on the hook to do something. In Pacific Region we went to San Francisco (never was sure why) and spent a few days at Vandenburg AFB.

Awesome.  VAFB is where I started my CAP cadet career.  When my dad was stationed there when I was in middle school.  Gorgeous part of Cali.
Title: Re: Rejoining after 20 years
Post by: Mitchell 1969 on February 02, 2018, 11:36:36 PM

Where did you exchange to? 

There was no AF airlift available in 1966 so the regions (apparently) were on the hook to do something. In Pacific Region we went to San Francisco (never was sure why) and spent a few days at Vandenburg AFB.

I remember that. There was a lot of confusion, as it was a pretty last minute cancelling of the airlift.

Participants in the “alternate IACE” were awarded the IACE ribbon, as it wasn’t their fault that it fell through and they did do SOMETHING. Many of them were “timed out” and couldn’t go on IACE the following year. Among the participants were the first female cadets to earn the IACE ribbon.


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