CAP Talk

General Discussion => Hysterical History => Topic started by: Nikos on July 18, 2017, 09:08:21 PM

Title: SAC Alert teams
Post by: Nikos on July 18, 2017, 09:08:21 PM
What is a SAC Air Police Camper alert team?  Is the word "Camper" a description for a special, or secret  air police team?
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: Eclipse on July 18, 2017, 09:16:16 PM
http://www.usafpolice.org/sac-missile-duty.html

"Camper Alert Teams
Technology was not infallible and when it broke men had to fill the breach. At SAC Minuteman bases, these breaches were filled by Camper Alert Teams or CATs. SAC’s Minuteman missile wings were concentrated at six bases with each wing controlling 150 to 200 ICBMs located at remote launch facilities sometimes as far as 160 miles from the base. Each of these launch facilities was protected by electronic sensors and physical barriers and when the sensors failed, a two-man Security Police CAT was dispatched from the base to the site to provide security until the sensors could be repaired.

The CAT vehicle was similar to those seen on any weekend in parks and campgrounds nationwide—a camper mounted on a pickup. The two team members lived on-site in the camper for anywhere from two to three days and were equipped with weapons, ammo, “foil pack” TV-type dinners, water, and, in winter, a survival kit. CATs covered a lot of miles; in one quarter the CATs of the 321st SPG at Grand Forks were  dispatched 80 times, driving 107,636 miles and using 13,910 gallons of gasoline. Once on site, the life of a CAT member was little better than one of the “Ramp Rats.” While one slept or relaxed, the other patrolled the launch facility in whatever weather nature came up with. It was “a lonely and monotonous job…” one observer noted with a sense of irony, which “never has been and never will be a picnic.”
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: kcebnaes on July 19, 2017, 01:06:07 AM
So, it's basically a real version of the "EM-50" from the movie Stripes?
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: stillamarine on July 19, 2017, 01:20:42 AM
So, it's basically a real version of the "EM-50" from the movie Stripes?

You sir win.
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: PHall on July 19, 2017, 07:28:43 AM
So, it's basically a real version of the "EM-50" from the movie Stripes?

Nope, just a base model 1960's camper on the back of a beat up USAF pick-up.
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on July 20, 2017, 12:47:29 PM
I would think that the USAF sent out specs asking to replace one of those campers that a military contractor received and submitted the EM 50 or something like it...
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: PHall on July 20, 2017, 05:31:21 PM
I would think that the USAF sent out specs asking to replace one of those campers that a military contractor received and submitted the EM 50 or something like it...

Nope, SAC had a problem that needed a fix right now. The quickest fix was to order a dozen off-the-shelf campers from an RV manufacturer.
Problem solved.
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: Spam on July 20, 2017, 06:38:32 PM
I would think that the USAF sent out specs asking to replace one of those campers that a military contractor received and submitted the EM 50 or something like it...


They have used the venerable UH-1N for quite a time in the security role out there. Funny thing, this came across my desk TUE:
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=f1b5044f080c37b63521aebb42b04d25&tab=core&_cview=1 (https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=f1b5044f080c37b63521aebb42b04d25&tab=core&_cview=1)

UH-1N Replacement Program
Solicitation Number: FA8629-17-R-2507
Agency: Department of the Air Force
Office: Air Force Materiel Command
Location: AFLCMC/PK - WPAFB (includes PZ, WL, WW, WI, WN, WK, LP, WF, WK)

USAF Releases Final Huey Replacement RFP
The Air Force on July 14 released its final request for proposals to replace the UH-1N fleet that patrols the service’s nuclear missile fields. The proposal calls for responses by Aug. 28, with a contract award expected in spring 2018. The service is looking for an initial operating capability as early as 2020. The Air Force has repeatedly released draft RFPs, as recently as April, after industry told the Air Force it could not meet requirements with an “off the shelf” solution. The Air Force wants to buy 84 helicopters, with the bulk of the fleet providing security for Air Force Global Strike Command, though they also will be used for transporting VIPs.

So, if you're interested in bidding against the "usual suspects", there you go.

V/r
Spam



Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: SarDragon on July 21, 2017, 04:04:48 AM
What's wrong with a 45+ year old platform?  >:D I worked on them during my first enlistment.  :o

Maybe they should just get Bell to do another run of AH-1Ys UH-1Ys. They seem to be doing well for the Marines.
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: Spam on July 21, 2017, 01:28:52 PM


Because the platform is used to transport people, not just munitions. Its a VIP transport as well.

Trying to get half of OSD and various Secretaries to agree to strap onto an AH-1 hardpoint wouldn't work well...

V/r
Spam


WRIGHT-PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE
The Air Force has launched a $4.1 billion program to replace 62 decades-old UH-1N Huey helicopter to guard intercontinental nuclear missile bases on the Great Plains and transport high-level officials in “continuity of government” operations.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/business/air-force-purchase-helicopters-that-would-guard-nuclear-bases/r4v5EgTBEM1mPI1wQdyYDP/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBB%207.17.21&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Early%20Bird%20Brief (http://www.daytondailynews.com/business/air-force-purchase-helicopters-that-would-guard-nuclear-bases/r4v5EgTBEM1mPI1wQdyYDP/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBB%207.17.21&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Early%20Bird%20Brief)

Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: SarDragon on July 21, 2017, 07:10:52 PM
OOPS!

I fixed it. The upgraded Huey is the "Yankee". The upgraded Cobra is the "Zulu".
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: Nikos on July 23, 2017, 05:46:43 PM
Here I am thinking the word "camper" means something like " combined alert military police emergency response".  I did not know it is the EM-50 project!  Is the EM-50 still in service?
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: abdsp51 on July 23, 2017, 06:31:11 PM
Here I am thinking the word "camper" means something like " combined alert military police emergency response".  I did not know it is the EM-50 project!  Is the EM-50 still in service?

You're kidding right? 
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: Nikos on July 23, 2017, 08:11:31 PM
Yes!
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: PHall on July 23, 2017, 08:16:41 PM
Here I am thinking the word "camper" means something like " combined alert military police emergency response".  I did not know it is the EM-50 project!  Is the EM-50 still in service?

No Camper as in you two are camping here at this missile silo until the security system is back up!
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: Eclipse on July 23, 2017, 08:28:09 PM
Here I am thinking the word "camper" means something like " combined alert military police emergency response".  I did not know it is the EM-50 project!  Is the EM-50 still in service?

No Camper as in you two are camping here at this missile silo until the security system is back up!

(http://www.usafpolice.org/uploads/3/8/2/1/38210033/1629736_orig.jpg)
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: abdsp51 on July 23, 2017, 11:07:55 PM
Space Command still gets the money.  Equipment has gotten nicer.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FiiOKi3y4OY8%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DiiOKi3y4OY8&docid=cZVK_J4Jk_Q3lM&tbnid=3swMyIm9Mr1oBM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwiG1Z7kwqDVAhVGzlQKHSrIDBAQMwgrKAQwBA..i&w=1920&h=1080&bih=589&biw=1280&q=USAF%20Camper%20Alert%20Teams&ved=0ahUKEwiG1Z7kwqDVAhVGzlQKHSrIDBAQMwgrKAQwBA&iact=mrc&uact=8

Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: sardak on July 23, 2017, 11:44:54 PM
The missles were moved to Global Strike Command, it gets the money.

CAP Camper version.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7024/6740881847_4772f21532_o.jpg)

Mike
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: abdsp51 on July 24, 2017, 12:14:24 AM
Personally they never should have done away with SAC... Then the issues that cropped up over the last 10 Years wouldn't have happened.
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: Spam on July 24, 2017, 12:17:35 AM
That pic from Eclipse brings memories. I drove a surplus USAF, 1975 Dodge CAP COV six pack just like that USAF one (without camper top, blue beanie, or rifle) in FLWG for some time in the 80s/early 90s. It was an awesome GSAR platform. Bullet proof powertrain, plenty of power, lift kit and big knobbies that we'd air down when we went off pavement, etc. Carried a full kit of gear in the back and a full six guys up front. Dual alternators, plenty of power for radios.

Yet, we did lose the peripherals gradually, and had to adapt/improvise/overcome. On one actual mission (missing C-152 student pilot out of Lantana c.1991, LTC W. Roshaven as MC) the wipers failed in rain. We tied a boot lace to each wiper and the two front seat cadets coordinated pulling the wipers left and right through the window vents, as I drove slowly and carefully - worked great. Pulled the wiper and replaced for the next days sortie, boom.

Having spent many a night in that vehicle, I gotta smile... not a bad night in all of them. Good times. Helped a lot of people in bad storms/incidents. Lotta late night and en route mentoring and growing up (at those CAP-safe 54 mph highway speeds, you had a LOT of time on hand)!

V/r
Spam


Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: PHall on July 24, 2017, 12:53:37 AM
Personally they never should have done away with SAC... Then the issues that cropped up over the last 10 Years wouldn't have happened.

We "SAC Trained Killers" did notice that they waited until LeMay was dead and buried before they did away with SAC.

SAC had an "elitist" rep among the other MAJCOMS. The Fighter Pilot Mafia Chief of Staff (Mc Peak) couldn't kill off SAC fast enough.
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: abdsp51 on July 24, 2017, 01:13:47 AM
We "SAC Trained Killers" did notice that they waited until LeMay was dead and buried before they did away with SAC.

SAC had an "elitist" rep among the other MAJCOMS. The Fighter Pilot Mafia Chief of Staff (Mc Peak) couldn't kill off SAC fast enough.

I think alot of what occurred within the AF was McPeak's doing and we have finally only within the last few years been recovering.
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on July 24, 2017, 12:47:28 PM
Saying "Fighter Pilot mafia" also points out there was more than one elite attitude, though...

Now I hide behind and below the desk as I will receive...
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: abdsp51 on July 24, 2017, 06:49:32 PM
Saying "Fighter Pilot mafia" also points out there was more than one elite attitude, though...

Now I hide behind and below the desk as I will receive...

There is. 
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: ColonelJack on July 24, 2017, 08:03:20 PM
We "SAC Trained Killers" did notice that they waited until LeMay was dead and buried before they did away with SAC.

SAC had an "elitist" rep among the other MAJCOMS. The Fighter Pilot Mafia Chief of Staff (Mc Peak) couldn't kill off SAC fast enough.

I think alot of what occurred within the AF was McPeak's doing and we have finally only within the last few years been recovering.

The "business suit uniform" was definitely McPeak's doing.  (Thus do I continue the ongoing CAPTalk legacy of everything eventually turning into a uniform thread!)

Jack
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: Nikos on July 25, 2017, 11:33:28 PM
I used to work with a guy who was in the USAF around 1965.  He said many times that the SAC guys were different.

 I really don't understand when you say "business suit uniform", do you mean a type of flight suit?
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: ColonelJack on July 26, 2017, 11:12:38 AM
I used to work with a guy who was in the USAF around 1965.  He said many times that the SAC guys were different.

 I really don't understand when you say "business suit uniform", do you mean a type of flight suit?

I'm referring to the current service coat uniform (Class As, for the Army types out there).  Take off the shiny silver buttons and it's just a business suit.

The prior uniform (sometimes called affectionately the "Tony Nelson" uniform) was much more military.  That's my personal opinion, and your mileage may vary.

The current uniform (sometimes called not-so-affectionately the "Tony McPeak" uniform) is, at least, an improvement over the way it was originally designed:  no epaulets, no U.S. cutouts, no nameplates, and for officers - sleeve lace similar to the Navy's to designate grade.

Heck, McPeak even tried to get away with no headgear at all, at one point.

Jack
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: PHall on July 27, 2017, 12:59:46 AM
The SAC guys were different because we were held to very high standards if you were in Maintenance or were a flyer.
Many people were on the "Personnel Reliability Program" because we worked on or around aircraft or missiles that could deliver nuclear weapons.
People on PRP were closely monitored. Something like a death in your extended family could get you suspended from PRP because you might be mentally unstable.
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: Nikos on July 27, 2017, 08:03:41 PM
Just in case I was not clear.  The guy I worked with who said the SAC guys were different did not mean it in a bad way.  Perhaps a better way to put it is that SAC is the best of the best.
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: PHall on July 28, 2017, 12:16:53 AM
Here's a little ditty that kind of "explains" SAC.

"To error is human, to forgive is divine. Neither of which is SAC policy!" >:D

FTFY.
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: abdsp51 on July 28, 2017, 12:45:55 AM
Perhaps a better way to put it is that SAC iswas the best of the best.

FTFY
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: LGM30GMCC on July 28, 2017, 10:41:39 PM
The SAC guys were different because we were held to very high standards if you were in Maintenance or were a flyer.
Many people were on the "Personnel Reliability Program" because we worked on or around aircraft or missiles that could deliver nuclear weapons.
People on PRP were closely monitored. Something like a death in your extended family could get you suspended from PRP because you might be mentally unstable.

Still true.

Camper alert teams still exist.

A lot of elements from SAC lived on in the missile community...including a lot of the bad elements. Actually wrote my master's thesis on the subject.
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: raivo on October 04, 2017, 06:15:48 AM
OP, is there a reason you periodically ask questions in here about nuclear C3, security, and other topics?
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: PHall on October 04, 2017, 02:29:34 PM
OP, is there a reason you periodically ask questions in here about nuclear C3, security, and other topics?

Hey, let the sleeper agent do his job. >:D
Title: Re: SAC Alert teams
Post by: foo on October 04, 2017, 03:28:06 PM
My uncle was Security Police under SAC. I would love to ask him about this, but he passed away last month at age 64 (perhaps not coincidentally) from mesothelioma.