CAP Talk

Operations => Tall Tales => Topic started by: ol'fido on November 16, 2011, 08:41:12 PM

Title: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on November 16, 2011, 08:41:12 PM
Thought I would share some of my WIWACs. Feel free to add your own.

When I Was A Cadet(WIWAC).....

1. We had c/Sgts, not c/SrAmn.

2. The shields on the cadet ranks were pinned on and not made a one piece.

3. Seniors wore the nylon flight jackets with the blues.

4. We sang very R-rated cadences at encampment.

5. We wore wing patches on everything( and I did so proudly and btw, hate the new IL wing patch)

6. c/MSgt was the most fun rank(six stripers ruled!)

7. Seniors smoked in front of cadets.

8. The majority of aircraft were member owned.

9. Wing HQ was the "black hole" for paperwork.

10. When we went anywhere, the Admin Officer typed up a set of travel orders.

Good times  ;D....great memories :'(.......
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: SarDragon on November 16, 2011, 09:02:44 PM
When I Was A Cadet(WIWAC).....

1. We had c/Sgts, not c/SrAmn. We had C/1C at that level.

2. The shields on the cadet ranks were pinned on and not made a one piece. What shields? We sewed our rank on.

3. Seniors wore the nylon flight jackets with the blues.

4. We sang very R-rated cadences at encampment.

5. We wore wing patches on everything( and I did so proudly and btw, hate the new IL wing patch)

6. c/MSgt was the most fun rank(six stripers ruled!)

7. Seniors smoked in front of cadets. As did my wing commander. https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/261546_2149415697475_1308838660_2638546_149504_n.jpg (https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/261546_2149415697475_1308838660_2638546_149504_n.jpg)

8. The majority of aircraft were member owned.

9. Wing HQ was the "black hole" for paperwork.

10. When we went anywhere, the Admin Officer typed up a set of travel orders.

11. I have a Mitchell w/o a Curry. I did Phase 1 under the olde program, right before my squadron did the transition. My Mitchell got me C/MSgt.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Salty on November 16, 2011, 10:11:16 PM
12. Cadets wore OD green fatigues and OD green jungle fatigues.
13. CAP aircraft were painted all different colors (My squadron plane was orange and white.)
14. Mitchell Award winners wore butter cups for rank.
15. C/Major and C/Lt.Col. could be given as discretionary ranks by the SQ CC.
16. Cadets only had 15 achievements.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on November 17, 2011, 10:41:26 AM
17. There was a short-sleeve option for fatigues.

18. My flight cap insignia was sewn on.

19. Florida Wing had a pregnant alligator.

20. There were like 4 cadet special activities.

21. Special activities were highly competitive.

22. Florida Wing had 2 and/or 3 summer encampments each year.

23. You had to attend ECSS for a week prior to being selected for encampment staff.

24. There was no CPPT.

25. We only had to run the mile run.

26. Cadets got called out on a regular basis for missions, even on school nights.

27. Safety?  What safety?

28. CAP Bookstore! Can't forget the Bookstore.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on November 17, 2011, 12:55:09 PM
28. Pilots wore smurff suits. Cadets wore them at the IL flight encampment with flight caps as well.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on November 17, 2011, 01:48:56 PM
28. Pilots wore smurff suits. Cadets wore them at the IL flight encampment with flight caps as well.

Smurf Suits!!!!!  Man, that's when men were men.  When you can pull off wearing a smurf suit, you truly were a real man.  If I remember correctly, they were $25.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: CAPC/officer125 on November 17, 2011, 02:56:50 PM
I am a little younger than most of above posters, but I remember a few of the things you guys are saying...

5. We wore wing patches on everything.I joined when we still had wing patches on all uniforms.

7. Seniors smoked in front of cadets.Some of them at least


30. Leadership in the 21st Century was brand new.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: MSG Mac on November 17, 2011, 03:11:32 PM
The National Commander was an active duty Air Force Officer and the senior CAP Officer was the Chairman of the Board.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2011, 03:13:35 PM
32. Eaker Award didn't exist.  We wore a silver triangular clasp on our Earhart ribbon to denote completion of Phase IV.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: jimmydeanno on November 17, 2011, 03:39:53 PM
A lot of these things aren't even from too long ago.  I joined as a cadet in '97.

We had C/Sgts.
We had C/FO for the Mitchell.
The Eaker didn't exist.
C/MSgt was 6 stripes down.
No C/SMSgt or C/CMSgt.
No Armstrong or Feik achievements.
CPFT was a point system with only 3 events.
The CPPT was really misunderstood.
The CAP Depot was around.
We ordered our insignia from the CAP bookstore, and it took longer than Vanguard.
There were 8 NCSAs and it was more expensive to attend than today.
CAP was "what you did" it wasn't #9 on the list of things to do.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on November 17, 2011, 03:48:54 PM
The CAP Depot was around.

Loved the Depot!!!
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2011, 03:50:54 PM
The only thing I really consider "ye olde" is the OD green fatigues I wore as a cadet in 1989.

I shed a tear for the Hock Shop and CAP Bookstore.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: EMT-83 on November 17, 2011, 03:55:12 PM
The CPPT was really misunderstood.

So you're saying some things never change?
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on November 17, 2011, 05:26:39 PM
The National Commander was an active duty Air Force Officer and the senior CAP Officer was the Chairman of the Board.

Frank Sinatra was running CAP?
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: johnnyb47 on November 17, 2011, 06:31:14 PM
The National Commander was an active duty Air Force Officer and the senior CAP Officer was the Chairman of the Board.

Frank Sinatra was running CAP?
You got me thinking so I did a google search on "Frank Sinatra Civil Air Patrol". Results were pretty interesting!

I was never a cadet. I had friends who were cadets in the '90's (in michigan) at the time I was in high school and they seemed to really enjoy themselves. Always wished I had given it a shot.
They certainly did fly a LOT back then.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Salty on November 17, 2011, 07:10:06 PM
Yeah we did.  I flew every Sunday as a cadet back then, sometimes in personal aircraft of SM's and sometimes in the CAP aircraft.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on November 17, 2011, 08:34:17 PM
Whenever one of the senior pilots did a proficiency flight in the O-1, I would run out to the airport and hop in the back.

33. Our ribbons had pictures on them and a little more character than the ones we have now.

34. We weren't supposed to blouse our trousers but we did whenever we had the chance.

35. You could wear low quarters with the pickle suits.

36. There was a beer machine in the encampment area at Volk.

37. I rode 300 miles to Chicago on the transmission hump of a compact Datsun for the Wing Conference.

Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: a2capt on November 17, 2011, 09:22:35 PM
Quote
36. There was a beer machine in the encampment area at Volk.
Did it have Sapporo in it?
Quote
37. I rode 300 miles to Chicago on the transmission hump of a compact Datsun for the Wing Conference.
See 27 - "Safety?  What safety?"
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: SarDragon on November 17, 2011, 09:46:44 PM
28. Pilots wore smurff suits. Cadets wore them at the IL flight encampment with flight caps as well.

Smurf Suits!!!!!  Man, that's when men were men.  When you can pull off wearing a smurf suit, you truly were a real man.  If I remember correctly, they were $25.

The Smurf suit was $16.95, in the late '70s. Filled out an order blank, and never sent it in. Still have it, in my CAP "historical documents".
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on November 17, 2011, 10:34:49 PM
37. I rode 300 miles to Chicago on the transmission hump of a compact Datsun for the Wing Conference.

SAR CAP in Daytona Beach.  A single senior member driving a 1983 Mazda B2000 pick-up truck.  1 Cadet in the cab, 5 in the back.  We drove down from Jacksonville (i.e. I-95 at 70 mph) in fatigues and gear.  The only flak we got was from the safety officer because we couldn't provide a vehicle check sheet upon arrival to mission base.  The 5 teenage cadets in the back and a single senior member didn't cause anyone to bat an eye.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Al Sayre on November 18, 2011, 12:04:06 PM
Safety?  What Safety?

In NY:
We had a 1950's era Dodge power wagon ambulance that was top heavy and leaned precariously in the turns, we regularly packed in about 15 Cadets and went places with only 1 SM, when the thing wasn't broke down.  It regularly died on the side of the road from a vapor lock...

We had a 6x6 truck assigned to the group that would hold about 30 cadets in the back with no seat belts...

In FL:
We had weekend training that involved dropping us off at Indian Town Rd and Fl Turnpike (before I-95 was built), just north of West Palm Beach, and about 10 cadets and 1 SM would hike our way through the woods and swamps to emerge at Jonathan Dickinson State Park.

We ate snakes, swamp cabbage, and anything else we could find or kill along the way.

SM carried a .357 with snake shot in case of emergency, but if we wanted to kill something to eat we had to do it ourselves.  Usually with one of our bayonettes lashed to a stick or with a machete, which every cadet carried.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Spaceman3750 on November 18, 2011, 12:44:13 PM
You know, I'm not a huge fan of our safety program in its current form, but I'm certainly not for throwing cadets in the back of pickups or cramming them into vehicles without seatbelts >:D.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on November 18, 2011, 08:15:13 PM
Quote
36. There was a beer machine in the encampment area at Volk.
Did it have Sapporo in it?
Quote
37. I rode 300 miles to Chicago on the transmission hump of a compact Datsun for the Wing Conference.
See 27 - "Safety?  What safety?"

No Sapporo. It was the generic black and white cans that said BEER on the side. I think the can was tastier than what was inside. I have heard of more than one military unit that would load one or two chutes in the soda machine with beer and then put some completely unappealing label on the button so that no higher up would get a Miller Lite instead of a Diet Coke.

Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on November 18, 2011, 08:24:57 PM
Safety?  What Safety?

In NY:
We had a 1950's era Dodge power wagon ambulance that was top heavy and leaned precariously in the turns, we regularly packed in about 15 Cadets and went places with only 1 SM, when the thing wasn't broke down.  It regularly died on the side of the road from a vapor lock...

We had a 6x6 truck assigned to the group that would hold about 30 cadets in the back with no seat belts...

In FL:
We had weekend training that involved dropping us off at Indian Town Rd and Fl Turnpike (before I-95 was built), just north of West Palm Beach, and about 10 cadets and 1 SM would hike our way through the woods and swamps to emerge at Jonathan Dickinson State Park.

We ate snakes, swamp cabbage, and anything else we could find or kill along the way.

SM carried a .357 with snake shot in case of emergency, but if we wanted to kill something to eat we had to do it ourselves.  Usually with one of our bayonettes lashed to a stick or with a machete, which every cadet carried.
Yes, in those days we didn't call out the SWAT Team if a cadet not only had a knife but the temerity to actually use it for something other than checking off the equipment list.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: BillB on November 18, 2011, 08:36:09 PM
To increase safety for cadets CAP should stop issuing Certificates for milestone awards. Cadets may injure themselves with paper cuts.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on November 18, 2011, 08:37:24 PM
Sounds like a subject for a stand up safety brief. >:D
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: AngelWings on November 18, 2011, 09:58:37 PM
I think we should stop having safety classes. The bright light from the computer screen is a safety hazard  >:D .
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: a2capt on November 19, 2011, 12:06:15 AM
When I went to college they had green filters on the fluorescents in the computer lab. You can guess what color the monitors were.

My Apple II had full color with analog RGB, I didn't care ;-)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Slim on November 19, 2011, 03:40:51 AM
SAR CAP in Daytona Beach.  A single senior member driving a 1983 Mazda B2000 pick-up truck.  1 Cadet in the cab, 5 in the back.  We drove down from Jacksonville (i.e. I-95 at 70 mph) in fatigues and gear.  The only flak we got was from the safety officer because we couldn't provide a vehicle check sheet upon arrival to mission base.  The 5 teenage cadets in the back and a single senior member didn't cause anyone to bat an eye.

I'll see your Mazda pick-up and 5 cadets, and raise you a surplus 1953 Willys jeep (strata blue, of course).  One senior, two cadets, all of our gear, pouring rain with hand cranked wipers and no top or seatbelts.  For that matter, the only seat that was attached to the jeep was the driver's. 

Used this, along with a surplus AF pickup at a SAREX in Adrian, Mi, circa 1985.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on November 19, 2011, 10:46:57 AM
38. Soldier of Fortune magazine was considered an official CAP publication.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on November 20, 2011, 03:08:18 PM
38. Soldier of Fortune magazine was considered an official CAP publication.

39.  Combat Mission Magazine (http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMBAT-MISSION-5-Issues-1988-1989-/380378026025?pt=Magazines&hash=item58904c1029#ht_1643wt_1163) that mentioned CAP. (Yes, it's true.  Late 80s edition about USAF PJs and they mentioned CAP as being the "premiere" Air SAR source for the continental US.  I'm sure it didn't hurt that the article's author, a retired PJ, was also a SM at the time.  Think his last name was Milsten or something.)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on November 20, 2011, 08:51:20 PM
The 1982 IL wing conference was held at the Bismarck Hotel in Chicago and the guest speaker was retired Special Forces general Mike Healy. There was also an AD PJ there.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on November 25, 2011, 04:40:51 PM
40. Blues were worn to every weekly meeting. Fatigues were reserved for missions, bivouacs, and encampments. Most pilots wore smurf suits and the green flight suits were very rare.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: AngelWings on November 25, 2011, 06:49:40 PM
Wish I could have experienced some of these. I fell out of the back of John Deer Gator way back when with CAP at an event. I did not get hurt, and made everyone laugh, and I learned why I should NEVER drag my feet on the ground when sitting unsecured (it was my fault purely, not anyone elses). I had an Air Force loaned radio (a member of ours is in combat comms squadron) and did not drop it or break it, but I did almost have my patrol cap run over. It was my only taste of the old days. If I could actually use a knife freely or do half the stuff you guys did, I'd be the happiest cadet in the world. You learned life lessons back then.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Al Sayre on November 25, 2011, 07:55:03 PM
Yep, and the biggest life lesson we learned was:

"If you do something really stupid, it's probably going to hurt!"
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Spaceman3750 on November 25, 2011, 07:59:11 PM
Wish I could have experienced some of these. I fell out of the back of John Deer Gator way back when with CAP at an event. I did not get hurt, and made everyone laugh, and I learned why I should NEVER drag my feet on the ground when sitting unsecured (it was my fault purely, not anyone elses). I had an Air Force loaned radio (a member of ours is in combat comms squadron) and did not drop it or break it, but I did almost have my patrol cap run over. It was my only taste of the old days. If I could actually use a knife freely or do half the stuff you guys did, I'd be the happiest cadet in the world. You learned life lessons back then.

Nobody says you can't use knives to accomplish what you need to accomplish. You simply can't do stupid things with them. Normally, we all learn through mistakes - however, when it comes to knives or other sharp pointy objects you can learn those lessons on your own time, because as a SM and GTL your butt is my responsibility, and when you slice your finger open doing something stupid with your knife you may learn from it, but your mistake (learning experience) is coming down on my head ("Why were you letting C/Snuffy do that with his knife?!?").
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: AngelWings on November 25, 2011, 08:01:39 PM
Yep, and the biggest life lesson we learned was:

"If you do something really stupid, it's probably going to hurt!"
A lesson hard to come by in the Facebook generation, where all that gets hurt for most of us is our image.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Salty on November 26, 2011, 04:41:02 PM
41. The internet was a few years away from prominence.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on November 26, 2011, 04:48:53 PM
42. We contacted each other by phone.  Home phone...as in a land line.  As cadets, from day one, we learned to call our element leader or flight sergeant no later than Monday night prior to the Thursday night meeting, and anytime if our status at the meeting was going to change.

43. As much as you loved CAP and wanted more than anything to be at the meeting, you were still a little nervous and got butterflies in your stomach because in a way, your cadet and senior leadership were intimidating...in a good, military way.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on November 26, 2011, 07:43:56 PM
44. Army surplus stores actually carried army surplus items. Wish I could find a BAR belt these days.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on November 26, 2011, 08:28:38 PM
45. Orange vests for SAR?  What's that mean?
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 06, 2012, 09:52:27 PM
Let's see. WIWAC...

1. we had actual military vehicles to use for FTXs. Our unit had one for transport and one with a big box full of radios for comm
2. problems in the unit were NEVER reported to Wing...we took care of things on our own.
3. we wore OG jungle fatigues just about anywhere besides meetings. Complete with subdued rank and insignia, which I still have.
4. We blew fireworks on New Year's Eve on our week-long post-Christmas FTX, complete with bottle rocket battles that we spent weeks prepping for.
5. it was a given that seniors kept their hands off cadets. Like I said, we took care of things on our own.
6. The bigger the knife, the better.
7. Rappelling and rock climbing was the best part of any FTX
8. 15 and 16 year old cadets were old. Looked old and acted old. If you were 18 or over you were positively ancient.
9. forget pup tents, we used parachutes for shelter.
10. 10 general orders and other cadet knowledge that we were expected to know each and every meeting. I can still recite most of them after 31 years in CAP

MAJ Kevin Estes
Emergency Services Officer
115th Composite Squadron
Rogers, AR
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: SarDragon on July 06, 2012, 10:19:17 PM
Only 10 general orders? WIWAC, the AF had 11, and CAP had 12.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 06, 2012, 10:59:12 PM
Wish I could have experienced some of these. I fell out of the back of John Deer Gator way back when with CAP at an event. I did not get hurt, and made everyone laugh, and I learned why I should NEVER drag my feet on the ground when sitting unsecured (it was my fault purely, not anyone elses). I had an Air Force loaned radio (a member of ours is in combat comms squadron) and did not drop it or break it, but I did almost have my patrol cap run over. It was my only taste of the old days. If I could actually use a knife freely or do half the stuff you guys did, I'd be the happiest cadet in the world. You learned life lessons back then.

Nobody says you can't use knives to accomplish what you need to accomplish. You simply can't do stupid things with them. Normally, we all learn through mistakes - however, when it comes to knives or other sharp pointy objects you can learn those lessons on your own time, because as a SM and GTL your butt is my responsibility, and when you slice your finger open doing something stupid with your knife you may learn from it, but your mistake (learning experience) is coming down on my head ("Why were you letting C/Snuffy do that with his knife?!?").

Seriously..."Use a knife freely"? What does that even mean.

As for a lot of this list, the reason today's cadets can't do a lot of the things you remember so fondly is that you guys did the the things you remember so fondly, and it cost somebody a lot of money at some point. 

From some of the things I did WIWABS I wonder how I made to my current ripe age relatively intact.  "When in doubt, pour more gas on it!"
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on July 06, 2012, 11:14:37 PM
Actually, most of us were smart enough not to get caught at the time. That's why we're senior members telling old war stories instead of ex-members giving depositions to the plaintiff's attorney. 8)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 06, 2012, 11:16:42 PM
Actually, most of us were smart enough not to get caught at the time. That's why we're senior members telling old war stories instead of ex-members giving depositions to the plaintiff's attorney. 8)

Good point.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: AngelWings on July 06, 2012, 11:25:22 PM
Wish I could have experienced some of these. I fell out of the back of John Deer Gator way back when with CAP at an event. I did not get hurt, and made everyone laugh, and I learned why I should NEVER drag my feet on the ground when sitting unsecured (it was my fault purely, not anyone elses). I had an Air Force loaned radio (a member of ours is in combat comms squadron) and did not drop it or break it, but I did almost have my patrol cap run over. It was my only taste of the old days. If I could actually use a knife freely or do half the stuff you guys did, I'd be the happiest cadet in the world. You learned life lessons back then.

Nobody says you can't use knives to accomplish what you need to accomplish. You simply can't do stupid things with them. Normally, we all learn through mistakes - however, when it comes to knives or other sharp pointy objects you can learn those lessons on your own time, because as a SM and GTL your butt is my responsibility, and when you slice your finger open doing something stupid with your knife you may learn from it, but your mistake (learning experience) is coming down on my head ("Why were you letting C/Snuffy do that with his knife?!?").

Seriously..."Use a knife freely"? What does that even mean.

As for a lot of this list, the reason today's cadets can't do a lot of the things you remember so fondly is that you guys did the the things you remember so fondly, and it cost somebody a lot of money at some point. 

From some of the things I did WIWABS I wonder how I made to my current ripe age relatively intact.  "When in doubt, pour more gas on it!"
It means use a knife without someone yelling "OH GOD, LOOK AT THAT CRIMINAL USING A KNIFE DURING A CAP MEETING! PUNISH HIM!" Which I have seen and sadly experienced multiple times in my current CAP career.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 06, 2012, 11:28:07 PM
It means use a knife without someone yelling "OH GOD, LOOK AT THAT CRIMINAL USING A KNIFE DURING A CAP MEETING! PUNISH HIM!" Which I have seen and sadly experienced multiple times in my current CAP career.

Ridiculous response, but why would you have a knife at a meeting, and if it's anything like the Rambo-esque possibly warranted.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: AngelWings on July 06, 2012, 11:40:16 PM
It means use a knife without someone yelling "OH GOD, LOOK AT THAT CRIMINAL USING A KNIFE DURING A CAP MEETING! PUNISH HIM!" Which I have seen and sadly experienced multiple times in my current CAP career.

Ridiculous response, but why would you have a knife at a meeting, and if it's anything like the Rambo-esque possibly warranted.
I carry a small swiss army knife on me all of the time. A harmless thing that I end up using the scissors that are built into it more than the actual blade. I carry it to cut small things that may need to be cut, like boxes, envelopes, paracord, tags on new shirts, electrical tape, and all of the other practical uses for a swiss army knife. People in my area were extremely crazy about knives for some weird reason I don't think I will ever know, which made me want to use my screw driver feature to screw the missing screws back into their head. Things have changed though, and now people in my squadron treat knives normally.

To make sure this is clear, I do NOT carry my knife to harm anyone.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 06, 2012, 11:45:19 PM
OK,  that's silly, though I know there are plenty of schools with zero tolerance and less that a Swiss Army will get you expelled.

...now back to your scheduled thread...
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 07, 2012, 02:12:29 PM
Gerber Mark II was the dream knife of choice back WIWAC, although I never did acquire one at a cost of $100+.

(http://www.moorecutlery.com/shop/images/detailed/1/Gerber22-01874markII.1.jpg)

I remember a cadet's parent speaking to our CC one evening asking if it were true that the Gerber Mark II knife was a mandatory item for all cadets.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: AngelWings on July 07, 2012, 02:15:23 PM
Gerber Mark II was the dream knife of choice back WIWAC, although I never did acquire one at a cost of $100+.

(http://www.moorecutlery.com/shop/images/detailed/1/Gerber22-01874markII.1.jpg)

I remember a cadet's parent speaking to our CC one evening asking if it were true that the Gerber Mark II knife was a mandatory item for all cadets.
That knife looks.. beautiful :D If I brought one of those to my squadron meetings and a Senior Member in my squadron saw me, I'd probably watch them call Security Forces or the rent-a-cops on base on me.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 07, 2012, 02:16:16 PM
An era where for years the Supply Depot showed a knife hanging on the front of the ubiquitous Y-Harness.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 07, 2012, 02:27:33 PM
I was out surfing the first half of the day today with one of my best friends of 23+ years.  He and I were both cadets together and we happened to bring up WIWAC stories to include how we organized our ground team like a Special Forces A-Team.

We also mentioned how we NEVER owned tents, let alone use them.  Poncho hooch or go home!  We truly lived by the "travel light, freeze at night" mantra.  And dude, if you didn't have your LBE and Ruck set up IAW 75th Ranger Regiment SOP, you were definitely a loser.

We created our own Recondo course which had its own RECONDO tab.  I don't even remember what the course entailed, but it rocked.  We held it at the University of North Florida's Army ROTC training areas (with obstacle course), lakes, rappel tower, etc.  Seniors?  Um no, there were no seniors involved.

How about, as a C/A1C, me and one of my friends got our CC to write letters stating we were Public Information Officers for the squadron and we were doing a piece on the Golden Knights.  My mom drives us to the Lake City Air Show, don CAP flight suits, and climb aboard the Golden Knight's plane as the jump out for the air show.  We were maybe 15 years old.  And yes, I have pics to prove it.

Man, the 80s were a good time in CAP.

I wish they still had the Drummond Island:  Declassified (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=Drummond+Island+Declassified&oq=Drummond+Island+Declassified&gs_l=hp.3...4722.7436.2.7546.13.13.0.0.0.0.259.1650.4j7j2.13.0...0.0.Aka7vqLiCLE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=4a7734df38a3f986&biw=1680&bih=925) story on the old CadetStuff site.  That was literally the best CAP story I've ever read.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on July 07, 2012, 05:27:30 PM
I just read the Drummond Island stories or parts there of that I Googled.

I had DEJA VU all over again. ;D
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on July 07, 2012, 05:32:56 PM
Wish I could have experienced some of these. I fell out of the back of John Deer Gator way back when with CAP at an event. I did not get hurt, and made everyone laugh, and I learned why I should NEVER drag my feet on the ground when sitting unsecured (it was my fault purely, not anyone elses). I had an Air Force loaned radio (a member of ours is in combat comms squadron) and did not drop it or break it, but I did almost have my patrol cap run over. It was my only taste of the old days. If I could actually use a knife freely or do half the stuff you guys did, I'd be the happiest cadet in the world. You learned life lessons back then.

Nobody says you can't use knives to accomplish what you need to accomplish. You simply can't do stupid things with them. Normally, we all learn through mistakes - however, when it comes to knives or other sharp pointy objects you can learn those lessons on your own time, because as a SM and GTL your butt is my responsibility, and when you slice your finger open doing something stupid with your knife you may learn from it, but your mistake (learning experience) is coming down on my head ("Why were you letting C/Snuffy do that with his knife?!?").

Seriously..."Use a knife freely"? What does that even mean.

As for a lot of this list, the reason today's cadets can't do a lot of the things you remember so fondly is that you guys did the the things you remember so fondly, and it cost somebody a lot of money at some point. 

From some of the things I did WIWABS I wonder how I made to my current ripe age relatively intact.  "When in doubt, pour more gas on it!"
I remember one bivouac where we had a fire watch(literally). About midnight it started raining. We told the cadet that had the 12-2 shift to keep the fire going. He did. About every 10 minutes, you would see a bright flash like a nuclear explosion as another cup of Coleman fuel went on the fire. With Coleman running about $13 a gallon today, he spent about $22 keeping the fire going for 2 hours. :o
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 07, 2012, 05:53:07 PM
Nothing beats the memory of someone running with a can of Coleman trailing a flame!
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 07, 2012, 06:30:31 PM
Actually, most of us were smart enough not to get caught at the time. That's why we're senior members telling old war stories instead of ex-members giving depositions to the plaintiff's attorney. 8)

^^This.

As I've often said: "As a unit commander, if I'd have had myself as a cadet, pulling the antics I'd pulled BITD, I'd have to kick my own butt."

Seriously. I'd have 2B'd myself like 3x.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 07, 2012, 06:51:19 PM
I was out surfing the first half of the day today with one of my best friends of 23+ years.  He and I were both cadets together and we happened to bring up WIWAC stories to include how we organized our ground team like a Special Forces A-Team.

We also mentioned how we NEVER owned tents, let alone use them.  Poncho hooch or go home!  We truly lived by the "travel light, freeze at night" mantra.  And dude, if you didn't have your LBE and Ruck set up IAW 75th Ranger Regiment SOP, you were definitely a loser.

We created our own Recondo course which had its own RECONDO tab.  I don't even remember what the course entailed, but it rocked.  We held it at the University of North Florida's Army ROTC training areas (with obstacle course), lakes, rappel tower, etc.  Seniors?  Um no, there were no seniors involved.

How about, as a C/A1C, me and one of my friends got our CC to write letters stating we were Public Information Officers for the squadron and we were doing a piece on the Golden Knights.  My mom drives us to the Lake City Air Show, don CAP flight suits, and climb aboard the Golden Knight's plane as the jump out for the air show.  We were maybe 15 years old.  And yes, I have pics to prove it.

Man, the 80s were a good time in CAP.

I wish they still had the Drummond Island:  Declassified (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=Drummond+Island+Declassified&oq=Drummond+Island+Declassified&gs_l=hp.3...4722.7436.2.7546.13.13.0.0.0.0.259.1650.4j7j2.13.0...0.0.Aka7vqLiCLE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=4a7734df38a3f986&biw=1680&bih=925) story on the old CadetStuff site.  That was literally the best CAP story I've ever read.

Our CC was a Viet Nam war vet, 11ACR, who had befriended many a soldier in his day. One day he heard one of his former cadets, now an F-105 driver, was working near where he was, borrowed an APC with a handshake and drove over to visit.

Our GT's handbook WAS the Ranger Handbook. We were ready to survive in the woods if Atlanta was nuked. To get our specialty unit patch, you had to rappel down a 250' hole and ascend back up, do a 3000 meter night navigation course, and rappel down Whiteside Mountain, a 750' cliff on the side of a big mountain. I went down one time and was startled to see a C-172 flying BELOW me. Our playground was the mountains of North Georgia, specifically near Camp Darby, the Ranger training camp, where we used to find all sorts of items dropped by the Rangers like map cases, M-16 mags, and even a belt of blank M-60 ammo from time to time. One night, we were running around the woods and "accidentally" infiltrated the camp and were getting sodas from a machine when an instructor came up and started yelling at us "Rangers," telling us that we'd better get back to the barracks if we knew what was good for us, and our CC politely went up and talked to him. We got our sodas and got the h*** out of there. And there are stories whose statute of limitations hasn't quite run out yet...
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 07, 2012, 06:57:16 PM
SAR CAP in Daytona Beach.  A single senior member driving a 1983 Mazda B2000 pick-up truck.  1 Cadet in the cab, 5 in the back.  We drove down from Jacksonville (i.e. I-95 at 70 mph) in fatigues and gear.  The only flak we got was from the safety officer because we couldn't provide a vehicle check sheet upon arrival to mission base.  The 5 teenage cadets in the back and a single senior member didn't cause anyone to bat an eye.

I'll see your Mazda pick-up and 5 cadets, and raise you a surplus 1953 Willys jeep (strata blue, of course).  One senior, two cadets, all of our gear, pouring rain with hand cranked wipers and no top or seatbelts.  For that matter, the only seat that was attached to the jeep was the driver's. 

Used this, along with a surplus AF pickup at a SAREX in Adrian, Mi, circa 1985.

I call. OD green Jeep 1 1/4 ton pickup (otherwise known as a five-quarter), a CAP blue Jeep CJ with an aircraft landing light mounted IN the hood so it rotated up, and an OD green Korean War vintage ambulance with a giant blue cross on the sides (Wing made us cover up the red so we wouldn't be confused with an ACTUAL emergency vehicle) with no seat belts. We also had a Mule at our disposal until it developed an oil leak that we could never fix.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on July 07, 2012, 07:20:20 PM
Our first "corporate" vehicle was a '59 station wagon we got in '82. We upgraded s year  later to a '64 Dodge super crew pickup that visibly bowed in the middle. They both "used" to be the dark navy AF blue,but had faded to a dull rust tinted blue. A little later we got an a M37 without the canvas cover on the cab.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 07, 2012, 07:37:48 PM
Our GT's handbook WAS the Ranger Handbook. We were ready to survive in the woods if Atlanta was nuked.

Both of these^^^

Ranger Handbook was SOP and had to be on your person when in the field.

6 hours southeast of Atlanta, we were preparing for the same thing.  And of course, Red Dawn was required viewing.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 07, 2012, 07:45:44 PM
How about, as a C/A1C, me and one of my friends got our CC to write letters stating we were Public Information Officers for the squadron and we were doing a piece on the Golden Knights.  My mom drives us to the Lake City Air Show, don CAP flight suits, and climb aboard the Golden Knight's plane as the jump out for the air show.  We were maybe 15 years old.  And yes, I have pics to prove it.

I hate you, you know that?  I don't have a story nearly as cool as that one from my cadet days. :)


Quote
Man, the 80s were a good time in CAP.

I wish they still had the Drummond Island:  Declassified (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=Drummond+Island+Declassified&oq=Drummond+Island+Declassified&gs_l=hp.3...4722.7436.2.7546.13.13.0.0.0.0.259.1650.4j7j2.13.0...0.0.Aka7vqLiCLE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=4a7734df38a3f986&biw=1680&bih=925) story on the old CadetStuff site.  That was literally the best CAP story I've ever read.

As a Drummond Island Ranger (and the guy who knows "Hannibal" quite well), I'm here to tell you that those stories are completely true. Well, most of 'em, at least. The parts that weren't embellished thru time.

The archives are down at the moment (thanks for pointing that out, UK) due to the new server and all that, so I just pinged the tech wonks and said "Hey, uh, I know this is a little demanding, but can we bring back the archives?" :)

Speaking of Drummond Island, here's a WIWAC story that will light up your day.. :)

I was a C/TSgt when I went to DI in 1982.   The story behind the whys and the wherefores of DI are best left for another time, but suffice to say, Group XII and Group III (my group) had competing "Ranger" programs (which were, at the time, quite extensive) and me wanting to go to this Drummond Island thing was considered a "defection" of sorts.  But my squadron commander, bless his heart, said "Well, if you want to.." and signed my CAPF 31 and off I went.

I had zero idea what to expect, and in a lot of ways it was like "CAP meets Apocalypse Now."  The field site at Drummond Island was almost 350 miles from Group XII HQ, literally on an island in the straits between Lake Superior & Lake Huron, between the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and Canada.   The convoy to get there consisted of two buses and several vehicles including a fire department surplused "rescue vehicle" that had been dubbed the "Ready Ranger Rick Rescue Recreational Vehicle," and just _getting_ to the island was an adventure of massive proportions.

The Drummond Island compound was primitive to say the least.  Those of us with overactive imaginations probably thought this is what a real live SF A-Team camp would have looked like in Vietnam, like Lang Vei.  It was about a 200m x 100m clearing in the middle of the woods, easily a mile off the main road (we were told.  It was really slightly less than a half mile) and what seemed to be miles from any kind of habitation.

There were a couple old house trailers butted up to the west side of the perimeter that served as the kitchen and camp HQ. Next to the trailers stood a primitive guard tower constructed of timbers, about 15-20 ft in the air complete with overhead cover and a beret-clad skull painted on the side (I am _not_ kidding) and a good sized fire pit. The camp trash dump and the rifle range occupied the southeast corner of the clearing, and the camp latrine (open pit, one ea) was located in the eastern treeline behind where the buses and RRRRV were parked. The rest of the camp was space for our team areas and GP Tinys.

We were there a couple-three days when somehow I got tasked to rig up a spot light in the tower. We had the searchlight off an old cop car, and someone had dug up a 12v power supply like you'd use for a ham radio, so I scrambled up the tower and started rigging power and light.  I had the search light working just as it was starting to get dark, and I showed C/Lt Bowers how to make it work, just in case they needed it.

Next thing I know, the alarm is raised across the camp "Bear in the trash dump! Everybody, stand to!" ("What the holy hell is a 'stand-to'?" I thought)  We're all out of our tents and around the fire pit in front of the tower, when I realized that now would probably be just the right time to put that searchlight into action.  I scampered up the tower and pointed the light at the trash dump about 100m away. Sure enough, there's a bear rooting around in our trash.   There were a lot of us city boys there, and I know for a fact that it was the first time I'd ever seen a bear outside of the Detroit Zoo.  All I could think was "Wait, what if that bear comes this way?"

So after 10-15 minutes of this, I happen to glance down, and there is LT Bowers standing at the base of the tower with an M-1 Garand on his shoulder.  I leaned over, cleared my throat, and asked the LT very nicely if he would mind not pointing the muzzle of the rifle in my direction.

The Garand was the only weapon I'd spotted at the moment, but I knew one of the seniors, WO or LT Hughes, was a sheriff's deputy and had his duty piece with him. (I honestly cannot recall if Hughes was a WO at that moment or an LT, but when I first saw him at Gp XII HQ, he was a C/Lt Col, and he was hastily made a senior member "for the duration," so I'm guessing he was around 20.. I can't rightly remember, since it was 30 years ago, if they'd just hung LT bars on him, or had him wear WO)

After 45 minute to an hour, the bear got bored of rooting around in the trash and ambled off into the woods to the SE of the camp. My team's area butted up against the western edge of the compound, so I was convinced all night laying in my tent that this big brown or black thing would eventually leap out of the woods and eat me first.

Several nights later, we marched to our first bivouac away from the camp at a place called Meade Island.  Each team created its own area just back from the beach with our own fire pits, etc.  The next AM, we were all woken with a "Get your fires going, get by your fires! There's a bear in the area!"  Let me tell you: I never got a fire going so fast in my life.

So here we are, teams huddled around our fires trying to get warm (for August, it was [darn] cold), and the word goes around that LT Hughes is out in the woods, looking for the bear. (Wait, what?)  A couple minutes later, to our left, on this point of land that our beach extends out onto,  the woods lights up and we hear the distinctive report of a firearm a second or two later.  Oookay, can we make this fire any bigger?  How about we grab all our crap and start heading back to the camp, mmmkay?

The school's 2nd bivouac was held during the 2nd week. We'd returned from the trip to K.I. Sawyer AFB that helped make this a "type B encampment," and the word was afoot to prepare for the "death march to Marblehead."  Marblehead was the far eastern point of the island, where natural cliff faces afforded us a great place to rappel.   The scuttlebutt was that Marblehead was a hard 12 mile march, and that there would be no lollygagging.  Anybody who fell out was definitely not cut out to be a ranger.

In retrospect, I should have taken much of what I was told about distances with a grain of salt. It *might* have been 10 miles, and that is accounting for all the twists and turns on the route.   

Following the experiences gained on the previous week's bivvy to Meade Island, what was really a short hike of maybe 2 miles, all of us eshewed the crap we'd taken the first time like sleeping bags and canned food.  We were traveling "Ranger-light", with just LBE & buttpacks.  Food was distributed among the teams. Each team had  gotten a ziploc bag of Bisquick, a big can of Dinty Moore, and some other sundries for the overnight . And of course, whatever pogey bait the rest of us might have been carrying (Granola bars, etc).

While on the hike, I noticed the guy who had started as the Cadet Commander had a 12 gauge shotgun rigged into his ARVN rucksack (the muzzle and action were down in the ruck, the stock protruding vertically).

I asked "Sir, what's that for?"

"Bears!" he grinned.

So yeah, remember all those "firearms" rules in the regs?  I'm pretty sure most of them were in the regs, even in 1982. :)

Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 07, 2012, 07:48:45 PM
And there are stories whose statute of limitations hasn't quite run out yet...

You got those too, huh?

Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Extremepredjudice on July 07, 2012, 09:14:50 PM
And there are stories whose statute of limitations hasn't quite run out yet...

You got those too, huh?
Setting a good example for the cadets, aren't we gentlemen? >:D
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 07, 2012, 09:19:57 PM
Setting a good example for the cadets, aren't we gentlemen? >:D

The example is: Don't get caught.  Or if you do, have a snuffy you can pin it all on.

Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Extremepredjudice on July 07, 2012, 10:56:24 PM
Setting a good example for the cadets, aren't we gentlemen? >:D

The example is: Don't get caught.  Or if you do, have a snuffy you can pin it all on.
So lie. K, wilco.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 07, 2012, 11:12:36 PM
Different time, different rules. If this was still the 80s or even the early 90s, we wouldn't be having this discussion. As immature as we were, we were pretty good at covering our butts. Except for one time. Maybe that one other time too. And that one time I was hog-tied and hung upside down one time on my first FTX and interrogated for two hours...
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on July 08, 2012, 09:01:43 AM
Our GT's handbook WAS the Ranger Handbook. We were ready to survive in the woods if Atlanta was nuked.

Both of these^^^

Ranger Handbook was SOP and had to be on your person when in the field.

6 hours southeast of Atlanta, we were preparing for the same thing.  And of course, Red Dawn was required viewing.
Red Dawn, Apocalypse Now, and Stripes: The holy trinity of movies WIWAC.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 08, 2012, 02:11:04 PM
I hate that I don't have time for CAP these days.  This thread has made me miss it again.  My son will be eligible to join in a little over 5 years.  Maybe I'll be able to help him experience some of those good times that we're talking about here, without giving myself a heart attack  :angel:
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 08, 2012, 02:23:23 PM
Red Dawn, Apocalypse Now, and Stripes: The holy trinity of movies WIWAC.

Taps, man, Taps. The Four Movies of the Apocalypse :)

(Seriously, I was a C/A1C or C/Sgt, about 20 of us went to see it Taps.  Red Dawn came out, and we all went in jungle pants, boots, "Kill A Commie For Mommy" shirts, etc... )
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on July 08, 2012, 04:00:43 PM
Red Dawn, Apocalypse Now, and Stripes: The holy trinity of movies WIWAC.

Taps, man, Taps. The Four Movies of the Apocalypse :)

(Seriously, I was a C/A1C or C/Sgt, about 20 of us went to see it Taps.  Red Dawn came out, and we all went in jungle pants, boots, "Kill A Commie For Mommy" shirts, etc... )
Anybody know where I can get a "'Be a Man Among Men' Rhodesian Army" t shirt. :'(
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 08, 2012, 04:38:32 PM
Red Dawn, Apocalypse Now, and Stripes: The holy trinity of movies WIWAC.

Taps, man, Taps. The Four Movies of the Apocalypse :)

(Seriously, I was a C/A1C or C/Sgt, about 20 of us went to see it Taps.  Red Dawn came out, and we all went in jungle pants, boots, "Kill A Commie For Mommy" shirts, etc... )

For us, it was Stripes at the '81 encampment, Star Trek II at the '82 encampment, then Red Dawn at the '84 encampment. On our own we watched whatever movies related to Viet Nam, WWII, or the Army that we could get our hands on. It got to the point that we were so gung-ho that we would wear our flight jackets, Ranger patrol hats, OD t-shirts, jeans and boots whenever we went places. Having about 15 of us descend on a movie theater in that getup got us a lot of strange looks. I'm guessing that we looked more like teen-aged urban terrorists than "dynamic Americans and aerospace leaders".
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 08, 2012, 04:40:41 PM
Having about 15 of us descend on a movie theater in that getup got us a lot of strange looks. I'm guessing that we looked more like teen-aged urban terrorists than "dynamic Americans and aerospace leaders".

^^^^ This. Totally.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 08, 2012, 04:43:19 PM
Anybody know where I can get a "'Be a Man Among Men' Rhodesian Army" t shirt. :'(

(I don't mean to come off as rude, man, but that took like 12 seconds on Google..<GRIN>)

http://www.zazzle.com/be_a_man_among_men_t_shirts-235627713807272630 (http://www.zazzle.com/be_a_man_among_men_t_shirts-235627713807272630)
https://www.sofmag.com/store/rhodesian-army-t-shirt-black (https://www.sofmag.com/store/rhodesian-army-t-shirt-black)

I had to discontinue my subscription to SOF when I went on Active Duty.  I didn't think it would reflect well on a clearance interview. :)

Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 08, 2012, 05:19:17 PM
Anybody know where I can get a "'Be a Man Among Men' Rhodesian Army" t shirt. :'(

D00d!  I was reading this from my blackberry and thought to myself "when I get home I'm going to post a pic of the 'be a man among men' shirt."

You beat me to it!  I had that shirt and the one that said "Support your right to keep and arm bears".

(http://img.printfection.com/1/2619/7875781/NzdV0.jpg)
(http://www.thetshirtexchange.com/thumbnail.asp?file=assets/images/img_1269_thumbnail.jpg&maxx=150&maxy=0)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: a2capt on July 08, 2012, 05:23:59 PM
Heh.. well, it rolls back to my WIWAC era, but not during an actual cadet activity.. (MCJROTC), but .. the comment of Red Dawn made me think of a silly activity ...

One afternoon whist visiting Palomar Mountain .. after a recent snowing. We found our way to the parking lot of the observatory, and there were all kinds of piles of snow, having large tires, it was fun running over them and such. Some were nice and puffy, so I took aim for one.. and blam! snow everywhere. That was fun, lets do it again!

The next one wasn't so forgiving. Jammed the push bar into the grille, which broke a radiator bracket and the fan bit the radiator.

Bought a bunch of Bubble Yum and tried to patch it... and then needing water .. the thought of the particular scene in Red Dawn, but it was kinda ruled out because .. well.. we were sure it wouldn't be enough. Turned out there was an Artesian Spring around the corner from where the main road heads down the mountain and using soda cups and such we managed to get enough water.

Silly kids..
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on July 08, 2012, 06:58:46 PM
Anybody know where I can get a "'Be a Man Among Men' Rhodesian Army" t shirt. :'(

(I don't mean to come off as rude, man, but that took like 12 seconds on Google..<GRIN>)

http://www.zazzle.com/be_a_man_among_men_t_shirts-235627713807272630 (http://www.zazzle.com/be_a_man_among_men_t_shirts-235627713807272630)
https://www.sofmag.com/store/rhodesian-army-t-shirt-black (https://www.sofmag.com/store/rhodesian-army-t-shirt-black)

I had to discontinue my subscription to SOF when I went on Active Duty.  I didn't think it would reflect well on a clearance interview. :)
It was more of a rhetorical question, my steely eyed auxiliaryman friend. ;)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on July 08, 2012, 07:01:39 PM
Stonewall,

You me and NIN are going to have to get together sometime and kill a few brain cells and tell a lot more war stories.

Ol'fido
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: SarDragon on July 08, 2012, 07:08:09 PM
Anybody know where I can get a "'Be a Man Among Men' Rhodesian Army" t shirt. :'(

(I don't mean to come off as rude, man, but that took like 12 seconds on Google..<GRIN>)

http://www.zazzle.com/be_a_man_among_men_t_shirts-235627713807272630 (http://www.zazzle.com/be_a_man_among_men_t_shirts-235627713807272630)
https://www.sofmag.com/store/rhodesian-army-t-shirt-black (https://www.sofmag.com/store/rhodesian-army-t-shirt-black)

I had to discontinue my subscription to SOF when I went on Active Duty.  I didn't think it would reflect well on a clearance interview. :)
It was more of a rhetorical question, my steely eyed auxiliaryman friend. ;)

One should generally avoid rhetorical Qs on here. They tend to provoke all sorts of smart-ass responses.  ;)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 08, 2012, 08:50:04 PM
Stonewall,

You me and NIN are going to have to get together sometime and kill a few brain cells and tell a lot more war stories.

Ol'fido

Wouldn't be the first time.  NIN and I, among others, have met up a few times.  From Hawk Mountain in 2002, my wedding in 2003, and a special event for like-minded CAPers in DC in the 2008 time frame. 

Perhaps it is time for an 80s flashback party, CAP style!
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 08, 2012, 09:08:28 PM
Stonewall,

You me and NIN are going to have to get together sometime and kill a few brain cells and tell a lot more war stories.

Ol'fido

Wouldn't be the first time.  NIN and I, among others, have met up a few times.  From Hawk Mountain in 2002, my wedding in 2003, and a special event for like-minded CAPers in DC in the 2008 time frame. 

Perhaps it is time for an 80s flashback party, CAP style!

We have a CAPVets meeting for former GAWG cadets and seniors from the 60s-80s every year at Christmastime. It's fun to see what happened to everyone over the years and trade some "what ever happened to..." and "remember the time..." stories. The guy in charge of organizing it also put together a myfamily.com site dedicated to a former commander and it has all sorts of stories and pics from the "great era".
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on July 09, 2012, 07:13:22 PM
Anybody know where I can get a "'Be a Man Among Men' Rhodesian Army" t shirt. :'(

(I don't mean to come off as rude, man, but that took like 12 seconds on Google..<GRIN>)

http://www.zazzle.com/be_a_man_among_men_t_shirts-235627713807272630 (http://www.zazzle.com/be_a_man_among_men_t_shirts-235627713807272630)
https://www.sofmag.com/store/rhodesian-army-t-shirt-black (https://www.sofmag.com/store/rhodesian-army-t-shirt-black)

I had to discontinue my subscription to SOF when I went on Active Duty.  I didn't think it would reflect well on a clearance interview. :)
It was more of a rhetorical question, my steely eyed auxiliaryman friend. ;)

One should generally avoid rhetorical Qs on here. They tend to provoke all sorts of smart-ass responses.  ;)
Dave, with some of these guys, you get a smart ass response with any type of question. The snark knows no bounds.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on July 09, 2012, 07:14:57 PM
Stonewall,

You me and NIN are going to have to get together sometime and kill a few brain cells and tell a lot more war stories.

Ol'fido

Wouldn't be the first time.  NIN and I, among others, have met up a few times.  From Hawk Mountain in 2002, my wedding in 2003, and a special event for like-minded CAPers in DC in the 2008 time frame. 

Perhaps it is time for an 80s flashback party, CAP style!
Have to see if we can work something out.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: SarDragon on July 09, 2012, 07:19:35 PM
Dave, with some of these guys, you get a smart ass response with any type of question. The snark knows no bounds.

Guilty as charged. However, I do try to use some semblance of discretion in my own smartassery.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: BillB on July 09, 2012, 08:45:43 PM
What made the 80's (and before) so great for CAP? And what changed that? Perhaps a look back to see what worked and what currently isn't might bring some light onto the picture. Of course you hear the "corporate culture" has brought about the changes, but has it? What is different in 2012 from the 1980's? Does this explain the dropping membership totals? Perhaps a conference call with Ned and General Carr along a dozen of the old graybeards of CAP could look into the differences and the change in CAP. (other Corporate Officers not allowed  LOL)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 09, 2012, 08:53:28 PM
What is different in 2012 from the 1980's?

Reagn's gone, Clinton gave us BRAC.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: SarDragon on July 09, 2012, 09:21:48 PM
What is different in 2012 from the 1980's?

Reagn's gone, Clinton gave us BRAC.

Actually, the BRAC process started while Reagan was still around.

Quote from: Wikipedia
The BRAC process was designed from 1988-89 to close excess military installations despite the political challenges which arise when facilities face activity reductions.

Quote from: globalsecurity.org
In 1988 the Secretary of Defense recognized the requirement to close excess bases to save money and therefore chartered the Commission on Base Realignment and Closure in 1988 to recommend military bases within the United States for realignment and closure.

Congress has enacted two laws since 1988 that provide for the closure, in part or in whole, and the realignment of facilities. Since 1988, there have been four successive bipartisan Defense Base Closure and Realignment Commissions (BRAC) that recommended the closure of 125 major military facilities and 225 minor military bases and installations, and the realignment in operations and functions of 145 others. By another accounting, the four BRAC rounds achieved 97 base closings and 55 major realignments. This resulted in net savings to taxpayers of over $16 billion through 2001, and over $6 billion in additional savings annually.

The principal mechanism for implementing the policy in both statues has been an independent, bipartisan commission. Two of the most pressing issues are providing assistance to local communities economically impacted by base closures and establishing a cost-effective program of environmental clean-up at bases prior to their disposition.

During the decade of the 1980's, no major military bases were closed, largely because of procedural requirements established by Congress. After several legislative efforts to break the deadlock failed, Congress introduced a new base closure procedure in P.L. 100-526, enacted October 24, 1988. The original base-closing law was designed to minimize political interference. The statute established a bipartisan commission to make recommendations to Congress and the Secretary of Defense on closures and realignments. Lawmakers had to accept or reject the commission's report in its entirety. On December 28, 1988, the commission issued its report, recommending closure of 86 installations, partial closure of 5, and realignment of 54 others. The Secretary of Defense approved its recommendation on January 5, 1989.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 09, 2012, 09:57:09 PM
Fair enough.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: BillB on July 09, 2012, 10:42:07 PM
Since you bring it up, BRAC is probably one of the underlying reasons for the change in CAP. Where has all the Encampment sites gone? In Florida along, Cecil Field Naval Air Station, Orlando Naval Training Center, McCoy AFB, Homestead AFB (thanks to hurricane Andrew) and several smaller Air Force sites have closed. Orlando Naval Training Center could support 300 cadet encampments at low rates for the cadets. All the rest of the Air Force instillations such as Tyndall AFB are maxed out on barracks and other facilities and unavailable. So the encampments you enjoyed in the 80's and before no longer exist. Even the old Type B encampments are frowned on in several Wings.  So ther than encampments, what else has changed since the 80's in CAP?
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 09, 2012, 10:47:30 PM
Those BRACs took the people, the vehicles, and the local understanding of the military as well.

People don't join anymore - they like to wave the flag and then write a check or send a proxy - that means less membership across the board.
Elementary and high schools run their athletic programs as if they were professional sports, even local park programs do it - so that allows for
less available time and more activity conflicts.

The internet hasn't helped, either.  From entertainment to employment, people think the world is a correspondence course, further feeding
the "non-joiner / couch groove mentality".
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 10, 2012, 01:51:24 AM
What made the 80's (and before) so great for CAP? And what changed that? Perhaps a look back to see what worked and what currently isn't might bring some light onto the picture. Of course you hear the "corporate culture" has brought about the changes, but has it? What is different in 2012 from the 1980's? Does this explain the dropping membership totals? Perhaps a conference call with Ned and General Carr along a dozen of the old graybeards of CAP could look into the differences and the change in CAP. (other Corporate Officers not allowed  LOL)

It's a matter of perspective. Cadets who grew up in this era, or even the 90s and early '00s, will look back 20-30 years later and say that these were the "good old days". I look back on my cadet days (1981-1986) with great nostalgia. And heartache. And regret. But for the most part, it was the best of times because CAP took me through my teen years and gave me something positive to work with. Great skills like rappelling and rock climbing, and the joy of riding in military surplus trucks. Great activities like the Air Force Familiarization Course (which didn't last) and Solo Encampment and visits to Fort Rucker and cadet competitions. It was the worst of times because things like CPPT weren't around or even thought of; seniors were just trusted to do the right thing. Unfortunately for me, because...well, I'm not going to go there. Suffice to say I survived and hold no animosity.

I guess because of the era, the military buildup and the desire to make things right regarding Viet Nam vets, CAP was a place for kids who were looking for a place to act out their fantasies on FTXs while doing something positive on Thursday nights. We went from a flight of 10 kids in 1981 to 2 flights of 35 when I left in 1986. We looked at is as good training for when we did go fight the Russians when we graduated and went in the Army or Marines. The Air Force provided more support back then, both monetarily and logistically. We were able to do more without spending more out of our own pockets.

Perhaps it's the nature of the beast that CAP has evolved into what it is today. 2012 is going to look good to seniors reminiscing about their cadet days 30 years from now, like I said. We tend to forget the bad and remember the good. Cadets didn't get, or even care about, the big picture then, nor do they now. All they can see is their unit, and occasionally their Wing. I am sad to see a lot of things fallen by the wayside, things that shaped us into what we are now. I understand the reasons, but I still hate it.

*shrug*
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on July 10, 2012, 02:01:43 AM
Having my active cadet years from 2003 to 2007/2008, I can honestly say that even a short five or so years later I think CAP rocked. I didn't do anything like Drummond or any of the old "crazy" non-reg events, but I definitely had my own fun. Lots of it.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 10, 2012, 11:13:41 AM
What’s different today from the 80s?  Same things that were different between the 70s and 90s I suppose.

WIWAC starting in 1987, I joined because I had a love for the military as a whole, not specifically one area of the military, and definitely not because of a love for aviation.  I longed for discipline and structure in my life after seeing my dad as a Navy officer in my younger years.  However, he retired a couple years before I joined CAP so as I grew older, he distanced himself from the military so I didn’t have that ongoing interaction that I wanted.  I joined Boy Scouts for a short while, but that didn’t last.  I looked at Sea Cadets, but right around the time I was filling out paperwork for that, one of my best friends mentioned CAP.  I was sold!

I’ll never forget my first meeting, an orientation night with my parents and Major George Otto, a Vietnam Marine CH-46 pilot and former Mitchell Cadet himself.  He spoke of the 8 week basic cadet training, FTXs, SAR/ES, and encampments and I knew CAP was for me.  But the next week started BCT.  I showed up in the required “uniform” for newbies, blue jeans, collared shirt tucked in, with a belt.  We wore this until we received our uniforms 6 weeks later.  I walked into the class room and there was this C/TSgt named Darrel Rhodes.  Although just a year or 2 older, he looked like a giant.  He and a female C/Sgt named Heather Harlan were our BCT staffers that would mold us into cadet airmen.  I was so intimidated that I felt sick to my stomach.

After BCT I fell in love with wearing my uniform and attending weekend activities like first aid weekends and other ES training, orientation flights, tours of military and aviation facilities, and everything CAP had to offer.  My first encampment was at Tyndall AFB August of 1987.  Toughest thing I had done in my life up to that point.  So structured and disciplined with morning uniform inspections that lasted a lifetime and one hour fire watch in the barracks that was required by the USAF.  I felt like the cadet staff were bigger than life.  They were cadets like me, maybe a couple of years older, but they commanded respect and stood 10 feet tall.

The rest of my cadet days were spent in the woods doing survival training, attending every FTX that was offered, going on real missions where we looked for actual downed aircraft, and being mentored by Vietnam veterans who didn’t take crap from anyone.  They were quiet and unassuming, but were just the best we could have asked for. 

Outside of CAP we all hung together doing crazy things.  Once I turned 16 and got a license it was “game on”.  We drove up to Ft. Stewart and Hunter AAF to visit the Ranger Battalion, we drove hours for air shows and wore our uniforms even though we weren’t “working”.  We got ourselves into P3, F18, and SH60 simulators at the 3 different Navy bases in Jacksonville at the time.  We wore flight suits, conducted “night ops”, and organized unofficial CAP training like Recondo School and water survival training.  We even built our own 30’ rappel tower where I got hurt bad enough to call an ambulance.  It was awesome!  Even though a lot of what we did wasn’t officially a CAP activity, you wouldn’t know it since we were all in CAP.  At any given time, from 4 to 10 “off duty” cadets would gather for some fun doing what made us happy.

Next to the Golden Knights flight at the Lake City air show, I’d say another one of our biggies was not once, but twice, where a handful of us talked our way into training with the Florida ARNG 20th Special Force Group out of Ocala.  In 1989, on two separate occasions, 2, then 6 of us, tagged along overnight for training during their drill weekends.  We carried M-16s, learned about IVs, patrolled through the Ocala National Forest, and froze our butts off.  Yes, I have pictures of all of this.  They knew we were CAP cadets and as far as our parents knew, we were on a CAP activity, but there were no checks and balances then, so as far as everyone was concerned we were legit.  Scary stuff now that I think of it.

When I became a young senior member in 1992 as part of DCWG (92 – 06), I tried to maintain that cadet mentality even though I was an “adult” and in the Army.  I quickly grew and learned, but still, I’d say some of the best times as a senior member were around 92 to 95, and maybe 99 to 04.  After I became a squadron commander in 2003 I butted heads with the wing commander too much so when it became work and not fun, I stepped down in 05.  I’ve been mostly inactive since then, but I’m hoping for a break in life to where I can enjoy the occasional CAP activity.

But WIWAC…that was when CAP was the best!
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 10, 2012, 11:39:09 AM
Awesome post above....^

Another issue is the shrinkage of the CAP program itself.  I'm told that in the heyday there was a CAP unit in every park in my major metro area.
I remember seeing the ads in Boy's Life, but never encountered a unit in person.
Our Charter history shows something like 2-3 times as many units wing-wide.  Having a unit in your neighborhood, or on / near the base where you live
allows for a lot more ad-hoc interaction and unofficial mopery and milling about then when your only access is a 45+minute ride in mom's car, not to mention how difficult it is to get on a base at all these days.

I can remember driving >next< to my AFRES buddy on a motorcycle and just wandering into both Fort Sheridan and O'Hare.  He flashed his ID, I had nothing but a smile.  Awesome and then some, but not going to happen today.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 10, 2012, 02:42:57 PM
Next to the Golden Knights flight at the Lake City air show, I’d say another one of our biggies was not once, but twice, where a handful of us talked our way into training with the Florida ARNG 20th Special Force Group out of Ocala.  In 1989, on two separate occasions, 2, then 6 of us, tagged along overnight for training during their drill weekends.  We carried M-16s, learned about IVs, patrolled through the Ocala National Forest, and froze our butts off.  Yes, I have pictures of all of this. 

Here, pics...

Me wearing unauthorized Jungle Fatigues while with 20th SFG(A) from the FLARNG in Ocala National Forest, circa 1989.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/r8e7fom7yg.jpg)

My buddy Jody (NIN met him) was also out with SF that weekend.  We are still best buds 24 years after joining CAP together.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/zh7oa7aoaz.jpg)

This pic was actually taken on 20 DEC 89 where we got all motivated when we invaded Panama so we spent the weekend in the woods. Mike is to the right, He's a MSgt on AC-130s and I live behind his parents now. (Notice fins on top of my ruck.)
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/6ab880892311ef21e5bb.jpg)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: 754837 on July 10, 2012, 03:24:06 PM
When I was a cadet…

Chevrons were white stripes embroidered onto a blue patch that was sewn onto the sleeve of the uniform.

We had a corporate owned Cessna L-19 Birddog as our squadron plane that had seen service in Vietnam.  It was the coolest thing ever!

If we did something stupid, we paid for it by doing pushups or in walking laps around the exterior perimeter of our squadron HQ and the idea of hazing was never on anyone’s mind.

I never did this but I know of older cadets wearing uniforms into liquor stores so that they appeared to of age to drink.  This was when the drinking age for “men” was 19 and “women” was 18.

I remember getting excused from school to go on “REDCAP” search and rescue missions as a ground team member.

We viewed ourselves as cadets 24 hours a day not just on Thursday evenings.


Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 10, 2012, 03:26:32 PM
We viewed ourselves as cadets 24 hours a day not just on Thursday evenings.

^This!
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: rustyjeeper on July 10, 2012, 03:36:02 PM
When I was a cadet…

Chevrons were white stripes embroidered onto a blue patch that was sewn onto the sleeve of the uniform.

We had a corporate owned Cessna L-19 Birddog as our squadron plane that had seen service in Vietnam.  It was the coolest thing ever!

If we did something stupid, we paid for it by doing pushups or in walking laps around the exterior perimeter of our squadron HQ and the idea of hazing was never on anyone’s mind.

I never did this but I know of older cadets wearing uniforms into liquor stores so that they appeared to of age to drink.  This was when the drinking age for “men” was 19 and “women” was 18.

I remember getting excused from school to go on “REDCAP” search and rescue missions as a ground team member.

We viewed ourselves as cadets 24 hours a day not just on Thursday evenings.


+1 to all of the above; and yes I did wear my uniform to purchase booze way back WIWAC at the age of 15.
Kids will be kids and there was no such thing as "core values" back in the day. There was right and wrong and I knew what I did was wrong, but I had to see if I could pull it off and I did >:D
The bottle of Jack I bought was consumed with two other friends who also were cadets in my unit. Just once I did that, we all suffered a severe hangover as a result....So much has changed since those days- this thread brings back a lot of memories to me about the good old days!
The one thing I am glad to see is CPPT added. Unfortunately a lot of what worked well for motivation and correctionis no longer allowed since the "H"
 word has become so popular. Pushups build character as does guarding a telephone pole while reciting the general orders.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on July 10, 2012, 08:19:44 PM
I am sure a lot of it also has to do with the amount of self-reliance that kids of different generations are taught. I have in my personal library a book written by a man who during the '30s lived in one of the little coal mining towns that have disappeared today about 5 miles from my house. The only remnant of it is the name on a little old country church.

In the book, he describes how he and a few friends would go into the woods and camp. Not on the weekends, but from the time school let out in very early spring until it started again in late fall. And then they would go out hunting and camping as often as their parents and the weather would let them. They would make an appearance at home one or two times a week to let the folks know they were still alive.

I went camping on my own with my CAP buddies many a time. We would leave on Friday and call home for a ride on Sunday afternoon. This was in the days before cell phones and text messages. My Mom had enough trust in me to know I wouldn't do anything TOO stupid. She also knew who I was going out there with. During hunting season, you could also be sure that half the trucks and cars in the student parking lot at the high school had a shotgun or squirrel rifle in them because guys were going hunting before or after school, or both. Today, kids are suspended and expelled for drawing guns in art class or having butter knives in locked in their cars.

Today, our kids are not taught to be self reliant. They are taught that if they have a problem at school, work, or anywhere to go find someone "in authority" and let them deal with it.  They don't learn the simple hands on skills that we learned as young cadets. We weren't taught to have a Senior member hold our hands every time we left the building. We learned to do things on our own and to a standard that wasn't in any manual or task guide, but in the eyes of our peers who were very exacting.

I used to run the flight line at missions as a c/1stLT. I don't mean that I was the head cadet. I mean that it "my" flight line. The senior FLO was whoever was not flying at the time and they stayed in the pilot's lounge drinking coffee and eating donuts. This was not alien to our seniors. They knew what we could do and trusted us to do it without them standing there with the bubble wrap and safety nets.

It may not be that the PROGRAM had changed so much that SOCIETY has changed and not for the better either. We may have cell phones, computers, the internet, more tacti-cool gear than I could have imagined in my wildest, SOF inspired dreams, but WIWAC we had a healthy amount of SELF-RELIANCE AND COMMON SENSE.


Title: WIWAC
Post by: Critical AOA on July 10, 2012, 09:08:03 PM
Well, my cadet days were back in 1973 - 1976.  I don't recall all the differences save that I seem to recall as cadets we were more interested in aerospace education and not so into the militant aspect that seems to be somewhat pervasive now.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 10, 2012, 09:14:07 PM
I think it runs in phases. Most every cadet is really interested in planes and flying first, then uniforms and promotions, then emergency services. It kind of depends on how interesting the leaders make it for the cadets.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 10, 2012, 10:22:39 PM
here ya go, lads, a link to Drummond Island: Declassified in the archives of CadetStuff.

http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000039.html#000039 (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000039.html#000039)

Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 10, 2012, 10:40:09 PM
BEST CAP STORY EVER!

Declassified:  Drummond Island

The Introduction (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000039.html#000039)

Death March Pt 1 (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000040.html#000040)

Death March Pt 2 (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000064.html#000064)

The Mess (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000156.html#000156)

The Consummate Squad Leader (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000157.html#000157)

The Tea (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000060.html#000060)

The Death Notice (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000091.html#000091)

The Interview (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000119.html#000119)

The Raging Queen (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000109.html#000109)

The Rocks (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000169.html#000169)

The Pig (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000184.html#000184)

The Rebellion (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000191.html#000191)

The Leper Colony (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000201.html#000201)

The Church (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000215.html#000215)

The King (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000247.html#000247)

The Taj Ma-hole (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000247.html#000247)

The Hole (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000269.html#000269)

The Sleeves (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000287.html#000287)

The Shelter (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000293.html#000293)

The Council of War (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000297.html#000297)

The Death March Pt 3 (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000303.html#000303)

The Oatmeal War (http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000315.html#000315)

This is every chapter listed.  More than I remember.  I'm going to have to read this again.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 10, 2012, 10:53:04 PM
I won't say where, but I get a brief mention... :)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NC Hokie on July 11, 2012, 01:44:34 AM
BEST CAP STORY EVER!

Declassified:  Drummond Island

I read this series years ago when I discovered CadetStuff, and completely forgot about all of the leadership goodness it contains. I think I need to share it with some of my senior cadets (with appropriate disclaimers).
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 11, 2012, 03:05:28 PM
And from the previous page where I mentioned flying with the Golden Knights as a cadet at the Lake City air show...

Just before the flight...
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/8d689e7c1d921886598b.jpg)

During the flight, checking the LZ and/or winds...
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/b1df567b5d9981509809.jpg)

Sometime in 1989 out with the FL ARNG 20th SF Group.  Yes, we're teenage cadets, maybe 15 or 16 with M-16A1 rifles.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/bf103433d540f6bde1ce.jpg)

Then there's always me on the rappel tower at Jacksonville University's NROTC obstacle course circa 1988.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/67349436446ece7399af.jpg)

Finally, me and a fellow cadet in 1990 with our very own M-72 (inert) LAW and rubber M-16s.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/1ed16b6db3f11425996b.jpg)

Of course, me with the unauthroized beret...circa 1991. Last pic as a cadet.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/b669c668753f77da4123.jpg)

Ah....WIWAC.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 11, 2012, 03:24:34 PM
Jeez...and I thought the stuff we did WIWAC was awesome. I guess the most awesome thing we ever did was at the 81 encampment at Ft Benning. We visited the Airborne training facility and got to take a ride on the buddy seat drop. Two cadets sat on a bench, strapped in, and were hauled 250 feet up, held for a moment, and released. After the first 20 feet the chute caught us and we drifted gently to the ground. Then there was the Huey rides at Hunter Army airfield, across the border in Alabama. After lights out, shaving cream wars, general jackassery (General Jackassery *salute*) like shaving cream boots, attacking and kidnapping the CQ, boobytrapping the stairs, Saran-wrapping cadets into their bunk, moving sleeping cadets in their bunks across the room, and once raising a bunk two feet off the floor with paracord. That took coordination and patience.
Title: WIWAC
Post by: Critical AOA on July 11, 2012, 05:18:26 PM
Then there was the Huey rides at Hunter Army airfield, across the border in Alabama.

Curious,  when I was stationed at Hunter Army Airfield it was in Savannah, GA.  When did it
move to Alabama?
Title: Re: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 11, 2012, 05:28:07 PM
Then there was the Huey rides at Hunter Army airfield, across the border in Alabama.

Curious,  when I was stationed at Hunter Army Airfield it was in Savannah, GA.  When did it
move to Alabama?

Win!
Title: Re: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 11, 2012, 05:51:10 PM
Then there was the Huey rides at Hunter Army airfield, across the border in Alabama.

Curious,  when I was stationed at Hunter Army Airfield it was in Savannah, GA.  When did it
move to Alabama?

Win!

Might must be my old age setting in. Hunter is near Fort Stewart, which is home to the 24th Mech. Lawson AAF is what I was thinking of, and it's still in GA, not AL. Jeez. When did my memory get so faulty?
Title: Re: Re: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 11, 2012, 05:56:18 PM

Might must be my old age setting in. Hunter is near Fort Stewart, which is home to the 24th Mech. Lawson AAF is what I was thinking of, and it's still in GA, not AL. Jeez. When did my memory get so faulty?

When the card said "senior member."
Title: Re: Re: Re: WIWAC
Post by: SarDragon on July 11, 2012, 05:58:22 PM

Might must be my old age setting in. Hunter is near Fort Stewart, which is home to the 24th Mech. Lawson AAF is what I was thinking of, and it's still in GA, not AL. Jeez. When did my memory get so faulty?

When the card said "senior member."

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Re: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 11, 2012, 07:21:05 PM

Might must be my old age setting in. Hunter is near Fort Stewart, which is home to the 24th Mech. Lawson AAF is what I was thinking of, and it's still in GA, not AL. Jeez. When did my memory get so faulty?

When the card said "senior member."

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

eh...screw you guys, I'm going home... /cartman
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 11, 2012, 07:33:16 PM
Sorry for the silly pictures.  This thread and the fact that I will officially be old this weekend have made me miss the good old days.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: titanII on July 11, 2012, 07:35:47 PM
Sorry for the silly pictures.  This thread and the fact that I will officially be old this weekend have made me miss the good old days.
Let me tell you, Sir, as a current cadet viewing those pictures of a former cadet, those pictures are far from silly. They're pretty darn cool.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: RogueLeader on July 11, 2012, 07:38:44 PM
Sorry for the silly pictures.  This thread and the fact that I will officially be old this weekend have made me miss the good old days.
I thought the were 8)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 11, 2012, 08:06:48 PM
Whenever I tell the new breed about what we did as cadets, their jaws drop. Week-long FTXs during Christmas break, capped off with a bottle rocket war on New Year's Eve, mobilizing an hour before our meeting to change locations so we could take a tour of a B-29, kangaroo courts during FTXs to eliminate discipline problems, 3000 meter night marches, rappelling off a 750' cliff with a broken arm, the Armpit Monster (different thread...someone remind me because it's just too good a story not to share), humping a PRC-77 on my back through the north Georgia mountains, rappelling into a sinkhole and ascending out...I just wish my pictures had survived. I can copy some pics from a private site and repost them, but I'd need permission, as well as retelling some GOOD war stories from before my time. I have a few on my FaceBook that I can repost, but mostly they're just establishing shots. I'll pester my sister to send me some that she has.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on July 11, 2012, 08:35:18 PM
I am definitely printing the Drummond Island chronicles out to enjoy for a long time to come. 8)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: BillB on July 11, 2012, 09:26:14 PM
Every and I repeat, Every cadet that has seen photos of old cadet activities or heard the war stories said they wish CAP was still like that. One said that CAP was getting boring with so many restrictions. But when you ask what restrictions, you will not get any two cadets to agree what they are.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 11, 2012, 10:05:54 PM
1985. Operation Summer Condor, Michigan Wing. 

The conops is that its a cadet leadership activity in the guise of a field training event.

Cadets are asleep around the firepit Saturday AM when some sorry SOB drops an artillery simulator in the firepit. (lets just say that dumping the arty sim *in* the firepit is NOT the best idea... the ash and stuff gets over EVERYTHING. Lesson learned by the sorry SOB.)  Everybody is now awake.

Cadets find a note from the staff. "Pack your trash and head out.  Here are the coordinates for the next training evolution. Be there by 3pm."

The cadre are all in the woods, camo'd up (hush, BDUs weren't authorized for like 6 more years) and following along, observing.  Its a leadership reaction course without any boundaries. Who takes charge, who communicates, who is paying attention, who is vying for the leadership role, etc.

The staff shadow the cadets all the way from Camp A to Field Site B, documenting all the arguments, fights over the map, the senior NCO basically abrogating his leadership role to the more junior cadets who knew how to land nav, etc.

It was a hell of a lesson for a lot of people. Throw a really unstructured event at people who are expecting to be led around by their nose all day and spoon fed things.

Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: AngelWings on July 11, 2012, 11:59:06 PM
Every and I repeat, Every cadet that has seen photos of old cadet activities or heard the war stories said they wish CAP was still like that. One said that CAP was getting boring with so many restrictions. But when you ask what restrictions, you will not get any two cadets to agree what they are.
What we need as cadets is those cool senior members who are willing to do crazy things for us, and occasionally go under the radar with a few "unauthorized" things to be like the old days. I've seen a trend where certain senior members get very motherly, turning the program practically into a day care center.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 12, 2012, 12:38:34 AM
Every and I repeat, Every cadet that has seen photos of old cadet activities or heard the war stories said they wish CAP was still like that. One said that CAP was getting boring with so many restrictions. But when you ask what restrictions, you will not get any two cadets to agree what they are.
What we need as cadets is those cool senior members who are willing to do crazy things for us, and occasionally go under the radar with a few "unauthorized" things to be like the old days. I've seen a trend where certain senior members get very motherly, turning the program practically into a day care center.

I sense that an FTX will be interrupted by a rogue "soldier" in the near future...perhaps one who has gone AWOL and was last seen in my AO... >:D
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 12, 2012, 12:42:47 AM
What we need as cadets is those cool senior members who are willing to do crazy things for us, and occasionally go under the radar with a few "unauthorized" things to be like the old days. I've seen a trend where certain senior members get very motherly, turning the program practically into a day care center.

I believe the term you're looking for here is "adults with something to lose" (you know like a house, car, 401k, etc.).

You can't have the days of WIWAC from the 70's and 80's without the prevailing attitudes of adults of the time as well.   Today's hover-parents
are always looking for someone else to blame when things go FUBAR.  WIWABS, you'd run out your front door at 9 in the morning and be home for dinner, and as long as the cops didn't drive you home, mom & dad didn't ask too many questions.

When I was in school, if you smarted off to a teacher, you were likely to get smacked, especially high school ("Three hits or three hours?!...I'll take the hits...") and a lot of stuff was "fixed" between kids on the schoolyard where "drama" began and ended.  If you got in trouble, you just hoped the dean saw fit to keep it in the halls, because dad wasn't going to be suing the school for smacking his kid, he'd be lighting into you as well.

These days, kids are made of tissue paper and everything is handled in "discussion groups", "anger management sessions", and the courts.

That's not really compatible with unit CC's and cadets getting too "creative".
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 12, 2012, 01:00:55 AM
What we need as cadets is those cool senior members who are willing to do crazy things for us, and occasionally go under the radar with a few "unauthorized" things to be like the old days. I've seen a trend where certain senior members get very motherly, turning the program practically into a day care center.

I believe the term you're looking for here is "adults with something to lose" (you know like a house, car, 401k, etc.).

You can't have the days of WIWAC from the 70's and 80's without the prevailing attitudes of adults of the time as well.   Today's hover-parents
are always looking for someone else to blame when things go FUBAR.

When I was in school, if you smarted off to a teacher, you were likely to get smacked, especially high school ("Three hits or three hours?!...I'll take the hits...") and a lot of stuff was "fixed" between kids on the schoolyard where "drama" began and ended.  If you got in trouble, you just hoped the dean saw fit to keep it in the halls, because dad wasn't going to be suing the school for smacking his kid, he'd be lighting into you as well.

These days, kids are made of tissue paper and everything is handled in "discussion groups", "anger management sessions", and the courts.

That's not really compatible with unit CC's and cadets getting too "creative".

Agreed. Most of "my" cadets are home-schooled, which is an anomaly that is becoming more the rule than the exception, and as such, the unspoken agreement is to treat them with kid gloves when it comes to "discipline" or "under the radar" activities. I try to let them have some leeway without letting rules or bodies get bent, sprained, or broken, but sometimes if something they want to do is questionable, I try to come up with an alternative that's just as fun. I've moved into an observer role more than an active monitor. I'm not advocating a return to 1980s bottle rocket wars and running around the woods with Airsoft rifles and camouflage makeup, not by a long shot - different rules, different times. I really don't want to have to justify myself to the CC, DCC, or someone's parents as to why I had a cadet up in a tree because they misunderstood my instructions. However, we do take things far too seriously in CAP because of the threat of lawsuits and such. I try to find a balance between following the rules, accomplishing the mission and having a good time. Since I pushed the envelope as a cadet, I know what buttons they are trying to push with me, and I can stop things before they become a serious problem without sacrificing anything in the name of The Regs.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: AngelWings on July 12, 2012, 01:39:06 AM
What we need as cadets is those cool senior members who are willing to do crazy things for us, and occasionally go under the radar with a few "unauthorized" things to be like the old days. I've seen a trend where certain senior members get very motherly, turning the program practically into a day care center.

I believe the term you're looking for here is "adults with something to lose" (you know like a house, car, 401k, etc.).

You can't have the days of WIWAC from the 70's and 80's without the prevailing attitudes of adults of the time as well.   Today's hover-parents
are always looking for someone else to blame when things go FUBAR.  WIWABS, you'd run out your front door at 9 in the morning and be home for dinner, and as long as the cops didn't drive you home, mom & dad didn't ask too many questions.

When I was in school, if you smarted off to a teacher, you were likely to get smacked, especially high school ("Three hits or three hours?!...I'll take the hits...") and a lot of stuff was "fixed" between kids on the schoolyard where "drama" began and ended.  If you got in trouble, you just hoped the dean saw fit to keep it in the halls, because dad wasn't going to be suing the school for smacking his kid, he'd be lighting into you as well.

These days, kids are made of tissue paper and everything is handled in "discussion groups", "anger management sessions", and the courts.

That's not really compatible with unit CC's and cadets getting too "creative".
Sadly, that is too true. The way people handle things has changed greatly. Sometimes it is easy to forget that people are crazy with their lawsuits and their ways of dealing things. It'd be nice if I could head back in the day just once to witness some of the cooler moments of CAP and witness a generation that wasn't so weak as todays.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 12, 2012, 06:35:17 AM
That's not really compatible with unit CC's and cadets getting too "creative".

As I've said before: As a unit commander, if I'd have had myself as one of my cadets, I'd have had to kick my own ass.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 12, 2012, 11:28:54 AM
WIWAC ("All war stories start out with 'No @##$%, there I was...' much like all fairy tales start out with 'Once upon a time..'. There are more similarities than differences between war stories and fairy tales." From: "Don't Be A Jerk, Learn to Talk Merc" in SOF Magazine, circa 1984)

I'm in CAP about 6-8 weeks, tops. Haven't been to encampment yet. Its the last week of June and we're doing our annual unit fundraiser at the Warren City Fair (car parking/crowd detail).

The Warren City Police have an old Hiller (UH-12E4, the 4 seat variant with the bench across the back of the cabin and the pilot all alone in front of that) they use for patrol duties.  One crappy rainy day they fly in and land in this roped off area next to the fair. One of my squadron officers knows the cops, and looks around.  Everybody in the CP is headed out for a break and nobody wants to stand guard on the police helicopter.  I haven't learned the fine military art of "shamming" yet, so there I stand with that C/AB look that says "Quick, volunteer me for something that isn't fun."  He says "Ninness! Go out there and guard that aircraft!"

Well, I'm an Airman Basic, all I say is "yes sir!!" and make great haste to the corral they have parked in to stand guard in my poncho.

The pilot and observer get out, and they're walking toward the fair to get some food. The O says "Hey, thanks man, make sure its topped off, eh?"  as they head out.

So I'm standing there at a strict parade rest, keeping any and all random tire kickers ("Punters") and assorted rug rats at bay, while answering questions about the aircraft as authoritatively as I can ("Why, yes, you can mount missiles and guns on this aircraft..").

Eventually, the crew comes back and both the pilot and observer thank me for guarding the aircraft following my full report of the public's awe. (I later realize that this is my first chance to see what a non-flying crew chief gets to do. Little did I know that some years later I'd be doing similar duties on AH-1s and OH-58s..) 

They spin up while I keep people back, and the door pops open and the Observer is waving someone over. I look around, nope, nobody else.. I look at him, point at myself "Me?"  He nods vigorously.

I run over to the aircraft which is making a hellacious racket, ducking like I've seen them do on M*A*S*H many times.

"Yeah?" I shout over the din at the Observer.

"Get in!" he shouts back.

"What?" I ask, not sure I heard him right.

"GET IN!" and he holds the door wider. I climb in and settle on the bench seat while he pulls the door closed and throws the seat belt across me. "Buckle up!"

Suddenly we're in the air, climbing vertically at an impossible vertical speed and an equally impossible (tiny) forward speed. My brain shifts gears.  Of course, this is what helicopters _do_ and why they're not _planes_.    No worries about stalling due to lack of airspeed. Just keep the rotor blades turning.

The pilot cranks the aircraft around to the left and we begin a circuit of Halmich Park, the site of the Warren City Fair. I look down and there is our CAP Command Post, and all the folks in fatigues there are looking up at me.  I grin "Ha ha, suckers!"

The flight lasts literally about a minute. Its a turn around the park, and back to the landing spot, and after I alight, they're gone, back on duty.

Of course, by the time I get out, everybody in the squadron who wasn't actively parking cars at that moment is standing right there, expecting its their turn to get a ride.    "Sorry, boys, just me."

Yeah, baby. I got to fly in a helicopter in CAP *before* I got to fly an Orientation Flight in a CAP plane. Is it any wonder I turned out this way?



Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 12, 2012, 01:05:15 PM
I know we have cadets that were born in 2000, maybe 2001(?), but for me, the nineties seem like yesterday. 

WIWAYS (When I was a young senior member) in my 20s, I took a lot more risks than I should have.  Of course I had been raised as a cadet in the 80s and I didn't take the rules as seriously as I should have.

One of the cool things I did was gave 6 cadets what I got as a cadet.  When I flew with the Golden Knights in FLWG in 1989, just 4 or 5 years later I coordinated Golden Knights flights for 6 of my cadets at the Manassas, VA air show.  The SFC I met as a cadet had been promoted and was the Golden Knights SGM and remembered me.  No paperwork, not parental signatures, just a hand shake and they were off.

Another things I did was became close friends with some of the older cadets.  I mean, I was a 20 year old senior member, cadets were just 3 or 4 years younger.  I am still CLOSE friends with a lot of them.  In fact, one is my kids' God Father.  He happens to be a PJ now.  But together, we tore it up out in the field with the cadets.

Me, another young senior, and 2 cadets who had turned 18 and were heading off to Virginia Tech took some time before they left and hiked through the Shenandoah Mountains for 3 days.  That was awesome!

That's me in the hat and the 2 cadets in the back.  This was in 1995 at "Old Rag" where we took a short break.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/cf2e0726331124fdd5c9.jpg)

Here are Leo and Adam (the 2 cadets) filtering some water...
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/bcc7700f1fb1f82a41ea.jpg)

Here I am during some unorthodoxed field training out in Manassas, VA around 1995 as well.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/7879e492a14b6897c15f.jpg)

Later, in 1999, this young chap planned and executed one BA survival weekend (3 days) at Massanutten Mountain. (http://virginia123.com/Massanutten-Poster.jpg)
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/e323d540808d74728ff3.jpg)

Colin demonstrating how to collect water.  He was 17 and led the entire 3 days of training.  He is now a Special Forces A-Team Commander
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/ff18bffd51c2535faa8e.jpg)

Uh, yes, that's a squirrel.  He taught us how to catch, kill, and eat it.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/285918ebce0d8684eb32.jpg)

Sometime in 1997 leading a cadet across a stream at Ft. Belvoir, VA.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/00e93a10102e49911bcd.jpg)

Mid-nineties teaching a cadet how to use a signal mirror.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/8e16c98591afb42e0880.jpg)

I won't even mention this picture.  But yeah, the female cadet at the bottom is a Platoon Leader of an Airborne Combat Engineer platoon and is Sapper tabbed.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/344689da161573a86473.jpg)

One final picture, I promise.  The same C/Lt Col that led the survival training and is an SF officer now is in this picture with me. The two of us  are talking to then CAP/CC BGen Rich Anderson.  Crappy pic, it was a polaroid.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/266b28173914e0775c7a.jpg)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 12, 2012, 02:31:11 PM
I think this was WIWAC (or it was "WIWABNS"). Definitely pre-1991, cuz we were still in gumby suits and jungle fatigues.

Sq bivouac, we're teaching the cadets how to "dent cook" using a sealed can.

The training includes the proviso: "Do not get distracted.  Pay attention to your can and get it out of the fire the instant it pops all the way out."

So we're standing at the fire later that evening, and the cadets have been "dent cooking," and the senior member in charge, Jeff Clark, looks down and see's a can in the fire that has been missed.   It is bulging at both ends, looks like it is mere seconds from exploding.  Jeff shouts "DOWN!" and we all hit the deck, expecting to get splattered with Beefaroni or Dinty Moore at any second.

So Jeff gingerly fishes the can out of the firepit and off to where it can explode like an EOD guy (we're all expecting him to get exploded on at any second).  He angrily says "Alright, who's can was that? Who!?"

This kid from our sister squadron gingerly raises his hand. "It was my can, sir."

Jeff launches into a safety lecture over the class he'd literally just taught on this subject not an hour or so before.  The cadet cannot explain adequately what he was exactly doing from the time he put the can in the fire until it was discovered. I think he would have been classified as ADHD or borderline autistic by today's standards.  He was a bit of a numbskull.

This is the same kid, on the same bivouac, who got asked "Cadet Smith[not his real name], why is your zipper always down?" to which the cadet replied "I don't know sir. Maybe because I have an unusually large groin." 

(Note: It is hard to keep a straight face in these circumstances)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on July 12, 2012, 08:00:43 PM
There used to be a little airstrip down near the Garden of the Gods in Southern Illinois that was used by the U of I agricultural station. We called it Dixon Springs International Airport, Five flights daily from Columbia and points south. >:D Seriously, we would be camped out there and here an airplane flying real low nearby. The next thing you know a landing light would come on just south of the strip, see all the vehicles and people parked there, the landing light would go out, you would hear power come on and the climb out, but see no other running lights whatsoever.

Anyway, one morning were sitting around the campfire and someone decides to throw a can of Spaghetti-Ohs or something like that in the fire. Well, for the next half hour or so, we kind of played a game of chicken. After the first guy did it, someone else would throw a can in the fire and everyone would watch and try to guess when it would cook off and be the last to get away. You also won if you stayed there, BUT SUCCESSFULLY DODGED THE SHRAPNEL.

That was also the bivouac where we had a cadet get stepped on by a cow during "war games".
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: C/Haughey on July 13, 2012, 12:13:22 AM
Being involved with CAP since late 2010, I can say I am thoroughly jealous of all your stories and wish that today's CAP was like how it appears to have been... Cadets did what was fun, with no worry of proper supervision and didn't have SMs as involved in CP.

Any advice on how to bring some of this *real* fun back?  >:D (Other than "don't get caught")  >:D
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: BillB on July 13, 2012, 05:39:27 AM
Cadet Haughly
I think you would be amazed by the amount of senior supervision there was back in them-old-days. But regulations allowed much leeway in the cadet program. Also many of the seniors were former cadets. The motto was "If I couldn't get away with it, you can't". At an activity, seniors knew what the cadets were going to try do befoe the cadets even thought of it.
There was a different attitude towards cadets and the cadet program. As a holdover from World War II to some extent, cadets were viewed as future military officers or enlisted specialists. Now as one senior member involved in the cadet program said. "cadets are just children".
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: EMT-83 on July 13, 2012, 08:47:14 AM
BillB, it’s not just CAP. Society has somehow evolved into thinking that we must protect our children from anything bad that could possibly happen, and cater to their every whim.

I recently had a conversation with one of the guys in the fire department on this very topic. He spends $350 per month so his kids can have iPhones. He wouldn’t think of depriving them of these toys, because all their friends have them. Besides, if they were ever kidnapped or lost in the woods, the GPS would save them. Holy crap!

I swear he was having chest pain when I told him that my kid has a $10 per month phone with no texting or data. He knows his way around the woods and is tough enough to kick anyone’s ass that might want to mess with him. You know, life skills.

/rant
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 13, 2012, 09:12:02 AM
BillB, it’s not just CAP. Society has somehow evolved into thinking that we must protect our children from anything bad that could possibly happen, and cater to their every whim.

I recently had a conversation with one of the guys in the fire department on this very topic. He spends $350 per month so his kids can have iPhones. He wouldn’t think of depriving them of these toys, because all their friends have them. Besides, if they were ever kidnapped or lost in the woods, the GPS would save them. Holy crap!

I swear he was having chest pain when I told him that my kid has a $10 per month phone with no texting or data. He knows his way around the woods and is tough enough to kick anyone’s ass that might want to mess with him. You know, life skills.

My kids are 6 & 4 (in 3 weeks) and they are the ONLY ones of their peers who don't have video games.  I'm not old school or hard on them, because I know that they will always have access to that stuff around their friends.  TV is bad enough, but we ensure they are limited there too.  The 8 year old down the street is still on training wheels but he can play the hell out of whatever game system he has.  Oh yeah, he also wears a PFD when swimming, which hates to do.  The fat girls next door are NEVER outside, so I can only assume that they're stuffing their faces with treats as they are glued to a screen of some sort.

My son actually told me earlier this week that he was sad because his other friend down the street never wants to play because he just wants to play with his "boring DS", which I am assuming is that portable play station thing.  I grinned like a proud papa and took him for a bike ride after dinner.  My kids spend hours a week swimming, climbing, riding bikes, skate boarding, and just last Saturday my son thought it was time to start surfing.  We attempted, but the surf was too rough for a kid his size.  I'm not preparing my kids for the Zombie Apocalypse, but holy hell I'm not using video games and TV as a means to score cool points with my kids.  My kids CRASH when it's time for bed.  I mean, they are unconscious within 2 minutes when they get in bed.  They sleep through the night and wake up every day ready to conquer the world.  That's how we should be treating cadets.  Wear their butts out with positive activities and push them to their limits.  Not bubble wrapping them and distracting them with play stations before they're in first grade.

/my rant
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on July 13, 2012, 11:22:34 AM
That's how we should be treating cadets.  Wear their butts out with positive activities and push them to their limits.  Not bubble wrapping them and distracting them with play stations before they're in first grade.

/my rant

You know, I have seen this.

At USAC annual training, we get kids there for BCT who appear to spend all day (and night) on the couch jamming HoHos in their faces while defeating the next "last boss" in some video game.

At least for a few days, these kids look like zombies at PT in the AM, and they somehow have the energy to play grab ass during canteen and such.  And they become discipline cases because they can't keep their hands (and their beefs) to themselves.

The Cadet Ranger School students, OTOH, are pushed pretty hard all day long, and they don't seem to have any problems with unstructured time.  Instead of playing around at canteen, they're back in the barracks squaring away their gear for their next evolution, boning up on their study materials, or catching extra Z's. :)



Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 13, 2012, 11:36:51 AM
+1 - a real, legit problem.  The instant gratification provided by electronic devices and games is literally like "kid krack" in the adolescent brain.
I'm as connected as you can be, and when I'm taking notice of people being "in the hood" all the time, you know its a problem, and worse, it's
not generally for work, or something else important (CAP, etc.), it's this incessant status updating and checking that keeps everyone involved in "next" and
"there", and out of "now" and "here".

This is especially a problem with kids who are ADHD or are hovering in  the area.

We've got one family friend who's son is an only child and so spends a significant amount of time by himself.  They drive about an hour to get to our place that has a pool, 2 acres of backyard, a nearby park, and he literally walks in the door, opens his laptop, and jumps on Minecraft or some other nonsense - this after having been on the notebook or his mom's phone the whole trip in.  My kids look at him like "let's go play".

My kids have a Wii, older DS', netflix, and some limited internet (filtered and monitored), and all of it has time limits.  Then they go to their friends houses and the "world is their playground", with few limits (because it's a good babysitter), and little filter.  Nothing warms my heart like the 9 years olds with ipod Touchs or DSi's who have figured out how to connect to the wifi and have unfettered access to the dark places on the internet.

Luckily, at least in the immediate vicinity of the neighborhood, their friends' parent lean the same way of "get out of the house", though then they come to our place with the kids, they spend their time with their nose in their phones.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 13, 2012, 11:42:54 AM
My kids have a Wii, older DS', netflix, and some limited internet (filtered and monitored), and all of it has time limits.

That blows my mind.  Really.

It reminds me of how people say "I really limit the bad stuff I eat" as they're pushing 50% body fat.  I am not here to say what anyone else does is right or wrong, but I witness too many parents saying the same thing, but when you REALLY take a look at it, those limits are not REAL limits.  "I just grabbed a mini-snickers from the HR office."  Yeah, but you "just" grabbed a Super Big Gulp and a bag of Doritos between lunch and dinner, too.

"My kid is limited to an hour of video games a day at home."  Yeah, but he just spent 3 hours at his friend's house doing the same thing.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 13, 2012, 12:05:09 PM
We can't control the whole world, nor can we think that we can control our kids' every moment.  All we can do is provide them the safest environment
we can in the situations we actually control and then instill in them the understanding of the reasons why we make the decisions we do, with hopes they will make good decisions for themselves (from an age-appropriate perspective).

I'm also a proponent of not hovering, so we toss them a GMRS radio and let them go to the park by themselves (since they were 7 and 8 ), ride the hood, library now on the rare occasion, etc.  Things some of their friends' parents won't consider.  We occasionally do an "adventure" where dad takes them
places that look "interesting" on low-scale urban exploring, sometimes not necessarily the safest places to be crawling around, but I'm hoping that they will run with that as they get more freedom.  My town has more than a few interesting paces that could lead to stories similar to the above - stuff I hope they do and that I don't find out about until they have their own kids.

If ours go to "Johnny's House" for a couple of hours, we ask what they did, if they reply "played Wii", then the one in our place stays off for the night, etc.

If they've decided to wear a groove into the couch in the AM on a Sat, the TV's will stay off until they've had some outside time in proportion. 
In the summer they are at camp all day, which is a tech-free zone.  (Decks of cards, believe it or not, are the hottest thing right now.) Pool three days a week, field trips, dodge ball every day in the PM, and then they are in Cub Scouts, drop-in Chess, soccer, one does hip hop class, so they have maybe an hour or two a day, tops that is really "free".  No email, no Facebook, and
OpenDNS keeps most of the internet at bay.

They will comment to us about the choices some of their friends make, and whether it's lip service or how they really feel, what we're hearing is where we want them to be.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 13, 2012, 12:17:08 PM
I joined CAP in January 1981. This was the beginning of the video era. We had a Coleco game, you know the one, cost $400 and had Pong and a skeet shooting game. Computers were something that sat in a large air-conditioned room at NASA guiding satellites. Cable TV was in its infancy still; HBO had just gone to a full-day schedule (used to come on at 5pm or so and end around 2am). VCRs were still really expensive.

Point is, WE DID NOT HAVE ELECTRONIC TETHERS. As everyone has said at one time or another, our games involved physical activity and ran on the most powerful graphics card ever invented: the mind.

I was allowed an hour of TV a day. During summer vacation mom ran us out of the house until lunch, then again til dinner.

Our first computer in 1982 was an Atari 400. I spent hours playing with it, but even then, when a friend came over we went outside to do whatever. Even during summer break...well, I think that's when I started becoming addicted to sitting around. But I was still active when I had to be. I kept up with the physical fitness requirements for the cadet program. On trips to various air force bases and campsites we didn't have our noses buried in an iPod or a Nintendo DS or texting anyone. We talked, and joked, and sang jodies and eventually fell asleep. Human contact.

It makes me sad that I see kids with their parents and they have their noses in their phones or have earbuds stuck in their ears. I ran into a guy I work with at the mall and he introduced me to his family. His son barely looked up from his new iPhone as he mumbled hello. His father and I both shrugged. Sign of the times.

I think that ADD is an environmental issue, really. I was flipping through the channels one Saturday morning and was astounded at the fast-pace of cartoons and commercials. No wonder kids can't focus. I saw a McDonald's commercial and it took me 29 of the 30 seconds to figure out what it was about...the little golden arches logo showed up about 2 seconds before it ended. In the lower right corner. We are conditioning kids to be ADD. If something doesn't grab and keep their attention for more than 30 seconds, it's off to the next thing. If I ever have kids, I think that I will do what some of you have done, and that's keep the electronic devices away. No iPhone, no PlayStation, no Xbox, no Nintendo DS. No DVD player in the back seat. Maybe an iPod, but only at certain times. And sure as hell, no distractions during family time.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 13, 2012, 12:55:50 PM
One of the saddest things I have ever seen in my life was the first time I saw a 12 year old kid riding his bike talking on a cell phone.

12 year old do not need cell phones, period.  Parents make the "safety" argument all the time, then give the kid an iPhone with unlimited data.

If "safety" is the reason your 8 year "needs" a phone, then you get a pay-as-you-go feature phone with only family and 911 allowed as calls.

Another piece of this is all the parents who allow their kids to violate the Facebook TOS and light up accounts under 13. Facebook is not allowed in my house, period.   They can do what their friends do and sneak an account they think I don't know about at the library, but not on my router.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NCRblues on July 13, 2012, 01:06:46 PM
Facebook is not allowed in my house, period.   They can do what their friends do and sneak an account they think I don't know about at the library, but not on my router.

Ouch. Why the drastic limit? Even if your kids are over 13 you still say no?

FB is very quickly becoming the only way to get a hold of some of the Cadets in my wing. (Well that and texting; and I am certainly not going to text cadets)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on July 13, 2012, 01:21:49 PM
12 year old do not need cell phones, period.  Parents make the "safety" argument all the time, then give the kid an iPhone with unlimited data

My 11 and 16 year old nephews have cell phones.  They were over one day getting help from my wife on math homework and it was time to call mom to pick them up.  However, neither of them had their cell phones for some reason.  They didn't know their own home number nor their parents' cell numbers.  They relied too much on their cells to keep their numbers.

My 4 & 6 year olds know all 3 numbers by heart.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Critical AOA on July 13, 2012, 02:03:48 PM

FB is very quickly becoming the only way to get a hold of some of the Cadets in my wing. (Well that and texting; and I am certainly not going to text cadets)

I would have thought that calling or emailing their parents would be the main way to initiate contact with cadets. 
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on July 13, 2012, 02:44:18 PM
Facebook is not allowed in my house, period.   They can do what their friends do and sneak an account they think I don't know about at the library, but not on my router.

Ouch. Why the drastic limit? Even if your kids are over 13 you still say no?

FB is very quickly becoming the only way to get a hold of some of the Cadets in my wing. (Well that and texting; and I am certainly not going to text cadets)

We've encountered this phenomenon here, too. The fix is that they are directed by their commanders that they >will< get email addresses (assuming the unit doesn't have a domain of its own), and they >will< check them daily, etc.  Official announcements, UODs, etc., are sent through those channels.
The "social" sites may be used as a secondary connection, but the unit with effective IT and PA folks know better then to use those sites as the primary
communications tool.

Facebook is not a proper, nor secure medium for discussing those things, since from the get-go your information is the product.

Most members comply, the ones that don't / won't find themselves left out and comply when it becomes important to them.  Obviously this is not the same issue as cadets not allowed to have email, since if they have Facebook that's likely a non-issue.

As to the personal prohibition of Facebook, I don't use it, neither does my wife, nor anyone in my family on any level that is consequential to care,
I share photos and whatever via email or other services and we don't need to alert people to when we're having dinner.  I'm actually the kinid of person that does things and goes places and would have interesting updates and check-ins, then I realized what a bad idea it is to be telling the world
that I'm not home and all my tasty goods are sitting alone for the picking at their slow pace (because my flight schedule is posted, and my hotel, etc.
I can't even really blog about what I do, because as a subcontractor for a marketing company, my clients don't want it known they are subing as well.
Lots of NDAs in what I do, and NDAs are the antithesis of Facebook.

I can't see a single reason why it would be "necessary" for >anyone< of elementary school age to use this service, especially in that all they would be doing is running home and then jumping on the computer and talking to / about the people they've just seen 10 minutes ago.

The relative value of this "social" nonsense does not, in my opinion, outweigh the risks and cyberbullying issues that these system inevitably bring into play. 

I'm not by a longshot a luddite, I just see no value in this proposition. Not being in that space has not cost me any friends (I have no interest in reconnecting with high school "buds" I haven't seen in 20 years, nor cyberstalking ex-girlfriends), any business, nothing, but I have seen plenty of
people in that space who tasted the worst it can offer. 

And to bring this back around to WIWAC - all those kids sitting with their nose in a screen checking out what the Kardassians just did, are >not<
out in the woods with a snorkel on, or jumping out of a plane, or even just walking the neighborhood to see who the zombies have eaten today.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on July 13, 2012, 09:03:43 PM
Well. as I have gathered from the few cadets who have posted in this thread, most of them want to do the wild and crazy stuff that we did WIWAC. They want to have the same originality, fun, elan, and camaraderie that we did as cadets and young seniors. They just don't know how. They haven't been around enough of us old and crusty ex-cadets that can show them how to have fun, commit a little harmless mayhem, and build some unit cohesion through benign shennanigans.

When I think about all this stuff and boil it down to the bare essentials, it comes down to one thing: CAMARADERIE.

That is the magic glue that holds this and other silly organizations together. Some people have BS troops, sports teams, military units, frats, the neighborhood gang that gives them that sense of belonging to a group that was the best of friends and the best at what they did. It isn't berets, tabs, or "budweisers" that hold units like SF, Rangers, or SEALs together. It's the camaraderie of the shared experience.

At one magical, marvelous time in our lives, Stonewall, NIN, and myself found that "Nirvana of Camaraderie" with CAP. So did a lot of other seniors, cadets, and ex-members. That is probably the one thing that will keep me sending in my dues every year; the idea and the hope that I will find that again or be able to lead others to it.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: SarDragon on July 13, 2012, 09:59:49 PM
At one magical, marvelous time in our lives, Stonewall, NIN, and myself found that "Nirvana of Camaraderie" with CAP. So did a lot of other seniors, cadets, and ex-members. That is probably the one thing that will keep me sending in my dues every year; the idea and the hope that I will find that again or be able to lead others to it.

Amen, bruthah!
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: rustyjeeper on July 14, 2012, 02:01:44 PM
At one magical, marvelous time in our lives, Stonewall, NIN, and myself found that "Nirvana of Camaraderie" with CAP. So did a lot of other seniors, cadets, and ex-members. That is probably the one thing that will keep me sending in my dues every year; the idea and the hope that I will find that again or be able to lead others to it.

Amen, bruthah!

DITTO :clap:
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: abdsp51 on July 14, 2012, 09:08:28 PM
I concur. When I was a cadet we had a lot fun from start to finish.  The first and only FTX I went on we had our games and one lasted into the night.  I recall hanging off the side of a huge berm by my fingers and toes, and out of all that all I accomplished was a scrapped knee.  We played e-tool baseball and did a huge land nav course out in the middle of the desert. 

Now with the way society is well who knows what, with as sue happy and the "It's someone else's fault" mentality these days the fun I was allowed to have wouldn't fly. 

I think that activities and such need to be planned to bring back the camaraderie into units or generate it as well. 
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 14, 2012, 10:12:08 PM
We had a SAREX today and I took a few cadets down the road for it. On the way, we started talking about stuff, and I mentioned some of the stuff we did as cadets, and their favorite story was the one of my first FTX where I ended up hanging upside down from a tree at 0330 while on guard duty. I told them that in NO WAY was I condoning this sort of behavior when one of the senior cadet NCOs got a gleam in his eye. They were amazed at the stuff we did and got away with, and I told them that no seniors were involved in any of it, that we did it on our own and the thought at the time was "well, no one got hurt or killed, so no harm, no foul." I told them flat out that this sort of stuff couldn't go on now simply because some cadet will blab to the wrong person and the entire wrath of CAP would land on my head. I think they get it. They're not as dumb or careless as we think sometimes.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: cap235629 on July 14, 2012, 10:54:23 PM
We had a SAREX today and I took a few cadets down the road for it. On the way, we started talking about stuff, and I mentioned some of the stuff we did as cadets, and their favorite story was the one of my first FTX where I ended up hanging upside down from a tree at 0330 while on guard duty. I told them that in NO WAY was I condoning this sort of behavior when one of the senior cadet NCOs got a gleam in his eye. They were amazed at the stuff we did and got away with, and I told them that no seniors were involved in any of it, that we did it on our own and the thought at the time was "well, no one got hurt or killed, so no harm, no foul." I told them flat out that this sort of stuff couldn't go on now simply because some cadet will blab to the wrong person and the entire wrath of CAP would land on my head. I think they get it. They're not as dumb or careless as we think sometimes.

But Col. Alexander does hear about things posted on this board....FYI
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: rustyjeeper on July 14, 2012, 11:12:46 PM
We had a SAREX today and I took a few cadets down the road for it. On the way, we started talking about stuff, and I mentioned some of the stuff we did as cadets, and their favorite story was the one of my first FTX where I ended up hanging upside down from a tree at 0330 while on guard duty. I told them that in NO WAY was I condoning this sort of behavior when one of the senior cadet NCOs got a gleam in his eye. They were amazed at the stuff we did and got away with, and I told them that no seniors were involved in any of it, that we did it on our own and the thought at the time was "well, no one got hurt or killed, so no harm, no foul." I told them flat out that this sort of stuff couldn't go on now simply because some cadet will blab to the wrong person and the entire wrath of CAP would land on my head. I think they get it. They're not as dumb or careless as we think sometimes.

But Col. Alexander does hear about things posted on this board....FYI



Good point.
Fortunately in the post Garibaldi was very clear......... " this sort of stuff cant go on now"
A person is entitled to their opinions and feelings and the Constitution allows us the freedom to express them in public or in private.
So long as the regulations were not violated no offense has occured.

Personally- I liked it better WIWAC, but sadly those days are HISTORY :'(
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on July 15, 2012, 12:13:07 AM
We had a SAREX today and I took a few cadets down the road for it. On the way, we started talking about stuff, and I mentioned some of the stuff we did as cadets, and their favorite story was the one of my first FTX where I ended up hanging upside down from a tree at 0330 while on guard duty. I told them that in NO WAY was I condoning this sort of behavior when one of the senior cadet NCOs got a gleam in his eye. They were amazed at the stuff we did and got away with, and I told them that no seniors were involved in any of it, that we did it on our own and the thought at the time was "well, no one got hurt or killed, so no harm, no foul." I told them flat out that this sort of stuff couldn't go on now simply because some cadet will blab to the wrong person and the entire wrath of CAP would land on my head. I think they get it. They're not as dumb or careless as we think sometimes.

But Col. Alexander does hear about things posted on this board....FYI



Good point.
Fortunately in the post Garibaldi was very clear......... " this sort of stuff cant go on now"
A person is entitled to their opinions and feelings and the Constitution allows us the freedom to express them in public or in private.
So long as the regulations were not violated no offense has occured.

Personally- I liked it better WIWAC, but sadly those days are HISTORY :'(

I was simply telling war stories. And warning the cadets not to even THINK about trying it. War stories are just that. 1981 was 31 years ago and as CAP has changed, I have changed. I wouldn't even DREAM of allowing anything of the sort to happen now. Not on my watch.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: BillB on July 16, 2012, 07:45:15 AM
I think everyone agrees what happened back when they were a cadet is no longer possible. But think about it. What in the pre-historic CAP might be brought back? Safety and CPPT has changed the cadet program, but many of the activities mentioned here might be modified and within reason looked at as possible activities or limitations for cadets. Where is the line? Is CAP as RM says the CIVIL Air Patrol, or as others have said the Auxiliary of the Air Force, thus more military training or activities could be considered.
The main difference between what was, and what is, is the fact that CAP hasn't defined itself or it's missions for the 21st century. What worked in 1980 is no longer possible, but at the same time, little has been done to see what IS possible that might be brough forward from 1980. I'm not saying that the current cadet program is "to soft" on cadets, but rather is there a need or use for a higher level of discipline in the military aspect of CAP? This appears to be what the cadets want, but where do you draw the line?
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: RogueLeader on July 16, 2012, 12:25:36 PM
Is CAP as RM says the CIVIL Air Patrol, or as others have said the Auxiliary of the Air Force, thus more military training or activities could be considered.


(http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/images/2007/06/06/askltdcap.jpg)

There you go.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on February 11, 2013, 05:31:38 PM
I just read through this thread again for some reason and it is full of win.

I thought it would be neat to put together the "Top 100" WIWAC statements.  But then I realized I have a job, family, long commute, Guard, yard, laundry, gym, dog,....  One day I'll have time for CAP... One day.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 11, 2013, 06:22:20 PM
I just read through this thread again for some reason and it is full of win.

I thought it would be neat to put together the "Top 100" WIWAC statements.  But then I realized I have a job, family, long commute, Guard, yard, laundry, gym, dog,....  One day I'll have time for CAP... One day.
And when that day comes, it will be a better day in CAP. ;D
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on February 11, 2013, 08:17:59 PM
I just read through this thread again for some reason and it is full of win.

I thought it would be neat to put together the "Top 100" WIWAC statements.  But then I realized I have a job, family, long commute, Guard, yard, laundry, gym, dog,....  One day I'll have time for CAP... One day.

Dragon naturally speaking, bro.

You forced me to read this thread.  I just lost 20 minutes of my life. It was probably the best 20 minutes I've had in months.

Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Nor'easter on February 11, 2013, 11:43:10 PM
Wow. I've read this entire thread probably three times over, and every time, I just say wow. Great stories all. I would've loved being a cadet in your cadet era.

Today's generation bugs the heck out of me as well. Yes, I know I'm one of them. But like you guys, I never had video games or a cell phone (until I started running around on my own, but even then just a basic phone and text limit). I loathe today's silly lawsuit crazed courts. Personal responsibility is faded, so lack of responsibility comes from that. And where's the warrior spirit? This is one of the reasons I joined CAP, to surround myself with tomorrow's leaders who have the same mindset as me. My ex-squadron commander said to me the other day, "In my day, there was no ADHD, but there was a such thing as a swift kick in the a$$." True to a point. I understand why the regs are put in place, but I'm still a firm believer in personal responsibility and common sense (or learning the hard way).

I could go on but I'll stop there. Anyway, thank you to all you vets in this thread for the entertainment. ;)  :clap:
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: That Anonymous Guy on February 12, 2013, 12:22:11 AM
^This. Especially the Warrior Spirit. This is the one reason I wish I was 30 years older
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on February 12, 2013, 12:24:34 AM
You can have plenty of Warrior Spirit in today's CAP. You just have to know when to turn it on and off.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Nor'easter on February 12, 2013, 12:39:35 AM
You can have plenty of Warrior Spirit in today's CAP. You just have to know when to turn it on and off.

Yes, plenty of that in CAP. It's just that outside of CAP which I was referring to. Our youth need to know how to stand up to challenges and take them by the horns, like a warrior, and to help more than just the individual.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: FARRIER on February 12, 2013, 12:49:56 AM
We had a SAREX today and I took a few cadets down the road for it. On the way, we started talking about stuff, and I mentioned some of the stuff we did as cadets, and their favorite story was the one of my first FTX where I ended up hanging upside down from a tree at 0330 while on guard duty. I told them that in NO WAY was I condoning this sort of behavior when one of the senior cadet NCOs got a gleam in his eye. They were amazed at the stuff we did and got away with, and I told them that no seniors were involved in any of it, that we did it on our own and the thought at the time was "well, no one got hurt or killed, so no harm, no foul." I told them flat out that this sort of stuff couldn't go on now simply because some cadet will blab to the wrong person and the entire wrath of CAP would land on my head. I think they get it. They're not as dumb or careless as we think sometimes.

As a cadet, staying over night at an airport during a SAREX, across the road was a drive-in theater. Not using all our brain cells, we ran across to look through the trees that lined the back of the drive in. We saw the police officers car and figured it wasn't too smart.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 12, 2013, 12:53:56 AM
We had a SAREX today and I took a few cadets down the road for it. On the way, we started talking about stuff, and I mentioned some of the stuff we did as cadets, and their favorite story was the one of my first FTX where I ended up hanging upside down from a tree at 0330 while on guard duty. I told them that in NO WAY was I condoning this sort of behavior when one of the senior cadet NCOs got a gleam in his eye. They were amazed at the stuff we did and got away with, and I told them that no seniors were involved in any of it, that we did it on our own and the thought at the time was "well, no one got hurt or killed, so no harm, no foul." I told them flat out that this sort of stuff couldn't go on now simply because some cadet will blab to the wrong person and the entire wrath of CAP would land on my head. I think they get it. They're not as dumb or careless as we think sometimes.

As a cadet, staying over night at an airport during a SAREX, across the road was a drive-in theater. Not using all our brain cells, we ran across to look through the trees that lined the back of the drive in. We saw the police officers car and figured it wasn't too smart.
D-Day, where are you when we need you. Whereabouts unknown....... ;D
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: FARRIER on February 12, 2013, 01:25:23 AM
Facebook is not allowed in my house, period.   They can do what their friends do and sneak an account they think I don't know about at the library, but not on my router.

Ouch. Why the drastic limit? Even if your kids are over 13 you still say no?

FB is very quickly becoming the only way to get a hold of some of the Cadets in my wing. (Well that and texting; and I am certainly not going to text cadets)

We've encountered this phenomenon here, too. The fix is that they are directed by their commanders that they >will< get email addresses (assuming the unit doesn't have a domain of its own), and they >will< check them daily, etc.  Official announcements, UODs, etc., are sent through those channels.
The "social" sites may be used as a secondary connection, but the unit with effective IT and PA folks know better then to use those sites as the primary
communications tool.

Facebook is not a proper, nor secure medium for discussing those things, since from the get-go your information is the product.

Most members comply, the ones that don't / won't find themselves left out and comply when it becomes important to them.  Obviously this is not the same issue as cadets not allowed to have email, since if they have Facebook that's likely a non-issue.

As to the personal prohibition of Facebook, I don't use it, neither does my wife, nor anyone in my family on any level that is consequential to care,
I share photos and whatever via email or other services and we don't need to alert people to when we're having dinner.  I'm actually the kinid of person that does things and goes places and would have interesting updates and check-ins, then I realized what a bad idea it is to be telling the world
that I'm not home and all my tasty goods are sitting alone for the picking at their slow pace (because my flight schedule is posted, and my hotel, etc.
I can't even really blog about what I do, because as a subcontractor for a marketing company, my clients don't want it known they are subing as well.
Lots of NDAs in what I do, and NDAs are the antithesis of Facebook.

I can't see a single reason why it would be "necessary" for >anyone< of elementary school age to use this service, especially in that all they would be doing is running home and then jumping on the computer and talking to / about the people they've just seen 10 minutes ago.

The relative value of this "social" nonsense does not, in my opinion, outweigh the risks and cyberbullying issues that these system inevitably bring into play. 

I'm not by a longshot a luddite, I just see no value in this proposition. Not being in that space has not cost me any friends (I have no interest in reconnecting with high school "buds" I haven't seen in 20 years, nor cyberstalking ex-girlfriends), any business, nothing, but I have seen plenty of
people in that space who tasted the worst it can offer. 

And to bring this back around to WIWAC - all those kids sitting with their nose in a screen checking out what the Kardassians just did, are >not<
out in the woods with a snorkel on, or jumping out of a plane, or even just walking the neighborhood to see who the zombies have eaten today.

Sidetrack: There are event promoters that will not use e-mail, and only FB, because it is easy claim that you didn't get the message, you didn't understand the message, etc. I won't work with anyone that has an aversion to communicating via e-mail.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: FARRIER on February 12, 2013, 01:38:45 AM
Cadet Haughly
I think you would be amazed by the amount of senior supervision there was back in them-old-days. But regulations allowed much leeway in the cadet program. Also many of the seniors were former cadets. The motto was "If I couldn't get away with it, you can't". At an activity, seniors knew what the cadets were going to try do befoe the cadets even thought of it.
There was a different attitude towards cadets and the cadet program. As a holdover from World War II to some extent, cadets were viewed as future military officers or enlisted specialists. Now as one senior member involved in the cadet program said. "cadets are just children".

Teenagers do get a bum rap these days, in the fact that they don't get credit for their abilities. When I worked as a staff photographer, I would cover events like "Building Soda Bottle Rockets" at the local library. The ages attending were eleven through fourteen. There was the standard chatter and lunch table style harassment, but they took the project seriously. And when it came time to launch their rockets, they were all business.

The librarian that oversaw the summer projects , loved art and science, never held a tight reign over the young people. She maintained boundaries though. She never spoke down to them, but to them. They saw it and didn't abuse it.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Extremepredjudice on February 12, 2013, 02:26:54 AM
My ex-squadron commander said to me the other day, "In my day, there was no ADHD, but there was a such thing as a swift kick in the a$$." True to a point.
No sir, not true to any point. A kick in the ass in no way fixes ADHD. It is a real mental health problem. Anyone telling you otherwise is being ignorant and ignoring mental health issues.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on February 12, 2013, 02:30:26 AM
+1. Just because you teach someone to shut up doesn't fix the problem. It only makes then close up.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 12, 2013, 09:52:09 AM
Remember me telling you about the little airport at Dixon Springs? One of our bivouacs down there was during some pretty cold weather. A couple of our seniors brought a couple of shelter halves to use for a tent. Naturally, us cadets were up way before the seniors. We were standing around the fire pit shivering and all of a sudden we notice the tent. One of these seniors was stick thin and about 5'7" and the other was 6'4" and about 280-90. Well, we notice that the bigger senior is sleeping with his BARE feet OUTSIDE of the tent and is still snoring away. All of us pulled our jackets a little tighter, inched a little closer to the fire, and shook our heads. So yes, it's not all one sided. Seniors can amaze the cadets from time to time.







Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Jaison009 on February 12, 2013, 11:06:03 AM
A lot of these things aren't even from too long ago.  I joined as a cadet in '97.

We had C/Sgts.
We had C/FO for the Mitchell.
The Eaker didn't exist.
C/MSgt was 6 stripes down.
No C/SMSgt or C/CMSgt.
No Armstrong or Feik achievements.
CPFT was a point system with only 3 events.
The CPPT was really misunderstood.
The CAP Depot was around.
We ordered our insignia from the CAP bookstore, and it took longer than Vanguard.
There were 8 NCSAs and it was more expensive to attend than today.
CAP was "what you did" it wasn't #9 on the list of things to do.

The CAP Depot was awesome :)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Jaison009 on February 12, 2013, 11:26:47 AM
Gerber Mark II was the dream knife of choice back WIWAC, although I never did acquire one at a cost of $100+.

(http://www.moorecutlery.com/shop/images/detailed/1/Gerber22-01874markII.1.jpg)

I remember a cadet's parent speaking to our CC one evening asking if it were true that the Gerber Mark II knife was a mandatory item for all cadets.

The Ka-Bar (newer generation prefered) or the Army M-7 bayonet and a machete was the gold standard for our GTs.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Jaison009 on February 12, 2013, 11:36:00 AM
Our GT's handbook WAS the Ranger Handbook. We were ready to survive in the woods if Atlanta was nuked.

Both of these^^^

Ranger Handbook was SOP and had to be on your person when in the field.

6 hours southeast of Atlanta, we were preparing for the same thing.  And of course, Red Dawn was required viewing.
Red Dawn, Apocalypse Now, and Stripes: The holy trinity of movies WIWAC.

No Full Metal Jacket??
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on February 12, 2013, 11:47:16 AM
No Full Metal Jacket??

FMJ was a "must see", but it was in a different category.  Hard to describe, but while we quoted the heck out of it, it was faux pas to quote it because then everyone knew you were just trying to be like Gunny Hartman.  No teenage cadet was as hard core as that guy, so we just avoided it.  Watched it about 100x though.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Jaison009 on February 12, 2013, 12:12:44 PM
1. CAP was our life.
2. Encampment was a weeklong (or more) awesome adventure
3. PT was used for motivation, punishment, fun and sometimes all three
4. We did winter and summer campouts in Alaska that required firearms continuously present
5. We were friends and hung out outside of CAP. We had lots of paintball wars.
6. PT might consist of events such as "capture the flag"
7. We had C/FOs
8. Being on the GT and wearing the badge meant you were "high speed"
9. We had overnight stays at the CAP buildings as part of the cadet basic training/orientation
10. The Cadet Staff planned and ran the meetings.
11. We did awesome things that are not allowed now days
12. Cadets knew how to wear uniforms (sleeves rolled proper, boots spit shined, Blues and BDUs pressed, etc)
13. We did a uniform inspection every meeting (we used uniform measuring tools regularly)
14. Cadets feared and respected their leadership simultaneously
15. Cadences were not something that you sang near SMs
16. We had "blood winging" at promotion ceremonies and very little CPP
17. We would check out of school for SAR missions
18. We had Cadet GTLs who would run a mission while a SM drove where ever the ELT led us.
19. Being encampment staff was hardcore.
20. Bus driver caps for cadet officers :)

(https://www.facebook.com/jaison.scott/photos#!/photo.php?fbid=4166898174738&set=t.706010069&type=3&theater)
(https://www.facebook.com/jaison.scott/photos#!/photo.php?fbid=266865599999241&set=t.706010069&type=3&theater)
(https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.52064695069.84452.706010069&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=52064780069&set=a.52064695069.84452.706010069&type=3&theater)
https://www.facebook.com/jaison.scott/photos#!/photo.php?fbid=4166898174738&set=t.706010069&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/jaison.scott/photos#!/photo.php?fbid=4166898174738&set=t.706010069&type=3&theater)
https://www.facebook.com/jaison.scott/photos#!/photo.php?fbid=266865599999241&set=t.706010069&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/jaison.scott/photos#!/photo.php?fbid=266865599999241&set=t.706010069&type=3&theater)
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.52064695069.84452.706010069&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=52064780069&set=a.52064695069.84452.706010069&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.52064695069.84452.706010069&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=52064780069&set=a.52064695069.84452.706010069&type=3&theater)

I'm the fat guy wearing the pips and diamonds if you cannot tell  :P

Yes those are M-4s we are carrying at Ft. Wainwright, AK. No it was not an encampment. Just another fun activity arranged by the Cadet staff: Mike Gomes, Ry Williams, and myself through connections we built.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: NIN on February 12, 2013, 03:27:42 PM
7. We had C/FOs

Pffft. N00bs.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: FARRIER on February 12, 2013, 03:54:58 PM
Well. as I have gathered from the few cadets who have posted in this thread, most of them want to do the wild and crazy stuff that we did WIWAC. They want to have the same originality, fun, elan, and camaraderie that we did as cadets and young seniors. They just don't know how. They haven't been around enough of us old and crusty ex-cadets that can show them how to have fun, commit a little harmless mayhem, and build some unit cohesion through benign shennanigans.

When I think about all this stuff and boil it down to the bare essentials, it comes down to one thing: CAMARADERIE.

That is the magic glue that holds this and other silly organizations together. Some people have BS troops, sports teams, military units, frats, the neighborhood gang that gives them that sense of belonging to a group that was the best of friends and the best at what they did. It isn't berets, tabs, or "budweisers" that hold units like SF, Rangers, or SEALs together. It's the camaraderie of the shared experience.

At one magical, marvelous time in our lives, Stonewall, NIN, and myself found that "Nirvana of Camaraderie" with CAP. So did a lot of other seniors, cadets, and ex-members. That is probably the one thing that will keep me sending in my dues every year; the idea and the hope that I will find that again or be able to lead others to it.

Exactly! I found the exact same environment later when I worked in the airlines. Corporate America (aerospace), not the same. I'm still in contact with people I worked with from the airlines. It's great to experience it as a youth, so you know what it is as an adult.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Jaison009 on February 12, 2013, 04:53:32 PM
7. We had C/FOs

Pffft. N00bs.

Had to have the gold circle  8)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: That Anonymous Guy on February 12, 2013, 05:40:07 PM
I know today's teens get a bad wrap but a lot of it (not all) is deserved. I'm often ashamed of my generation.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: SarDragon on February 12, 2013, 06:27:24 PM
7. We had C/FOs

Pffft. N00bs.

Oh, like you're not a n00b, too. ISTR I was graduating HS while you were still a bun in the oven.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: FARRIER on February 12, 2013, 07:04:12 PM

One final picture, I promise.  The same C/Lt Col that led the survival training and is an SF officer now is in this picture with me. The two of us  are talking to then CAP/CC BGen Rich Anderson.  Crappy pic, it was a polaroid.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/266b28173914e0775c7a.jpg)

Burgundy shoulder slides, they were not ugly :)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 12, 2013, 07:09:34 PM
It's just not the same as the blue though.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: FARRIER on February 12, 2013, 07:19:39 PM
...and running around the woods with ... and camouflage makeup...

As a cadet (early/mid 1980's) we met in the local National Guard Armory. We used to do a lot of the community service projects they did, like the Jerry Lewis Labor Day Telethon. Since they were an artillery unit, they had to train in basic infantry tactics at least once a year. The battery asked if they could take us along one year. Our unit commander, a retired USAF MSGT approved it. We didn't fire/carry any weapons. The E-7's and E-6's running the training were Vietnam Combat Vets. We enjoyed ourselves and picked up some leadership tips. And we learned a few of them disliked John Wayne because he didn't serve a day in uniform but had the candy bar in the C-rations named after him.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: N7MOG on February 12, 2013, 08:51:40 PM
My first fatigue uniform in 1968 was an old set of USMC utilities. Complete with the metal buttons with 13 stars. Little did I know that I'd end up in the USMC in 5 years time! The comment made when I got the uniform was "we don't use them but their free and you can work in your garage at home in them".
Our chevrons were a blue cloth rectangle with white chevrons on them.
Cadets becoming Seniors under 21 years of age became Warrent Officers.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ColonelJack on February 12, 2013, 09:09:06 PM

One final picture, I promise.  The same C/Lt Col that led the survival training and is an SF officer now is in this picture with me. The two of us  are talking to then CAP/CC BGen Rich Anderson.  Crappy pic, it was a polaroid.
(https://www.box.com/shared/static/266b28173914e0775c7a.jpg)

Burgundy shoulder slides, they were not ugly :)

No ... they were beyond ugly.  Light-years beyond ugly.  To say they were hideous is to pay them a compliment.

 ;)

Jack
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on February 12, 2013, 09:36:57 PM
Here's a former cadet (now a PJ) during TAC COMEX XXV in early 2000s at Ft. AP Hill, VA.  He's signaling an overhead A/C via mirror and smoke grenade.  Yes, that's my dog, Scout, with her orange vest.  One side had a CIVIL AIR PATROL name tape and DCWG patch and the other side had a SCOUT name tape and revers American flag.

Ahhh, those were the days.

And then one of my cadets teaching at MER SAR College in late 90s.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: bosshawk on February 13, 2013, 04:10:55 AM
ah, yes, AP Hill(it was sometimes known as Arm Pit Hill).  I was stationed there in the early 60s as an Army Lt.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on February 13, 2013, 02:21:27 PM
I'm a writer.  Not by trade, but I enjoy writing my feelings down on paper (really, electronically).  I'm not the best writer, but it is very therapeutic and helps me collect my thoughts about things.

Back in 2002, it was my 15 year mark in CAP and I was 30 years old.  So naturally, I had to write about it....

Half My Life in Civil Air Patrol
(Am I Crazy?)

February 2, 2002

One of the people I’ve looked up to for ten years said this to me about CAP, “there are some very odd people in this world; it just so happens that most of them join CAP.”  I think that about sums it up. In 15 years I have come across some of the most extraordinary people I’ve ever met. Both jobs that I’ve had in my adult life were offered to me by fellow senior members, working for the US Government and now at The World Bank. Yes, I have been very fortunate to be a part of this incredible organization.

As you can imagine, in a volunteer organization such as CAP things often go wrong. Right from the start I experienced this, and it never seemed to cease as time went on. I joined CAP in February 1987. However, it wasn’t until August 1987 that I got my membership card. That’s right, I had graduated the 8 week Training Flight program where I earned my first stripe, had been to encampment, and still, I didn’t have an ID card. I later found out that the application was never submitted. My commander had to write a letter to the encampment commander saying that I was a member and somehow it worked. But every morning at inspection while everyone else had their CAP ID, I held up a letter that was slowly disintegrating due to the heat and humidity. Before encampment I ordered my uniform items only to find my name spelled wrong on the nameplate. I mean, my fatigues said “STONEWALL”, but my nameplate said “STONWALL”. So there I was, drawing attention from the start.

For the most part my experiences in CAP made my life more enjoyable than I could have imagined. It helped me in more ways than getting me a couple of jobs too. A few months into my membership my parents were in a terrible car accident. My mom was okay, but my dad’s life was hanging by a thread. At one point we all went in to say our “goodbyes”. Somehow, my dad beat the odds and lived, but not without complication. He had brain damage and was paralyzed on one side. Even that couldn’t stop him though. He progressed so well that he later gained the ability to drive again. CAP gave me something positive to focus on. My squadron commander who was the same age as my dad and also a retired military officer and Vietnam veteran soon showed me everything I needed to know in order to evolve into a man. But don’t think my dad didn’t help too. At 14 I had to be there for my mom and dad. Days in and out of rehab, and quickly I became responsible for taking care of my dad while mom worked and finished college. It was a growing experience for both of us. My dad showed me that no matter what the circumstances, you can accomplish anything, like walking again. My dad demonstrated more strength and determination than I had ever witnessed. From that, I soon became a man before my time, as I had no choice.

Back to CAP. All of my friends through junior and senior high school were cadets. We were from different schools and lived in different parts of the city, but somehow we all managed to spend almost every weekend doing something that involved CAP, officially or unofficially. We’d go camping, or what we liked to call “going to the field”, visit military units, and go to movies, hit the beach, or “run ops” around town. Running operations (ops) was our forte. We did everything from mock reconnaissance missions on the Mayo Clinic to waterborne operations along the Inner Coastal Water Way. It was all about having fun and seeing how much we could get away with. At least once a month we had a weekend squadron activity. Orientation flights, practice missions, tours, air shows, color guard missions, and model rocketry. We did it all and we loved it. We didn’t have a squadron van so it was somewhat of a challenge to get where we were going. Some cadets had vehicles and parents were very helpful as well. We rarely had more than one senior involved in what we were doing so that made it tough too. We became very independent from seniors. The gang and I would come up with any reason to wear our uniforms.

Florida Wing is huge, and it was then, too. More than just area, there were a ton of CAP members spread throughout the state. At the time I think there were like 12 Groups. I was in Group 2 in Northeast Florida. For CAC meetings we’d have to drive as far as 2 to 3 hours for a meeting, a meeting that often ended without resolve. But nonetheless, CAC was another reason to wear my uniform and hang out with other cadets, something I loved doing.

My squadron never once did a joint meeting, activity, or mission with another unit. I couldn’t tell you one name of a nearby squadron, unlike today in National Capital Wing where I know almost every squadron commander and half the cadets in each unit. Here, we do joint everything, from air shows to orientation flights; a far cry from 10 years ago in Florida.

As a cadet, rank and testing were not very important to my cohorts and me. The goal was earning the Mitchell Award before graduating high school. We were basically allowed to test once a month and each promotion required a review board. Review boards in my day were tough and taken seriously. It wasn’t odd to fail a review board and have to do it again the following month. But I am grateful for that because it showed me that you couldn’t get away with the minimums. You can guess on a written test when there are multiple choices, but when you’re face to face with the Commander or his deputy, it’s all or nothing. For this, I feel like we were all a higher caliber cadet. My squadron numbers varied from about 15 to 30 active cadets. I couldn’t compare our squadron to another squadron in my day, because we never did anything together except for encampment and there we were all split up so you still couldn’t tell. Another example of Florida’s size has to do with encampment. In 1989 or 90, there were three different encampments in Florida. There were simply too many cadets for one encampment. Two years in a row my application was denied because I had already attended and there were too many other first-time applications.

Today, cadets go to multiple National Cadet Special Activities (NCSA) each year. I know one cadet who has been to five encampments and at least ten special activities. I applied for PJOC two years in a row and didn’t get it. Review boards for NCSA’s was held at the wing level and lasted an entire weekend. Hundreds of cadets showed up and you competed against all of them. Out of 100 cadets applying for PJOC only two or three could go, and as a sergeant or tech sergeant, I wasn’t going to be one of them. Finally in 1990 I got a letter asking me if I’d be willing to go to Homestead AFB for an “unofficial” special activity called Aviator Water Survival School. I was there a week later. We parasailed, swam every day, learned egress skills for getting out of a downed plane, and learned other basic water survival skills. It was awesome, but no NCSA ribbon for us, it was “unofficial”. I then realized that learning skills and having fun meant a lot more than wearing ribbons or special patches.

Through my first year in the Army I maintained my membership as a cadet. Then when I joined National Capital Wing I changed over to senior status and became very involved with the local squadron. It was tough being on active duty and showing up to meetings, but somehow I managed to make at least ¾ of them throughout the year. As a young senior I found it very difficult to be taken seriously. I was basically a cadet who had a job and an ugly high n’ tight haircut, as required my unit. I was 20 years old and was trying to re-live my days as a cadet. I quickly realized that the ES training and experiences I had from Florida were nothing compared to National Capital Wing (DCWG). DCWG was very serious about their ES and was very capable with their assets and ground team members. I was running around trying to be hooah and they were finding ELTs before I could get my gear out of the truck. They also had corporate vans; something I didn’t know existed at the squadron level. I quickly got caught up to speed and jumped into ground operations. I got EMT qualified, GTM, and GTL. Then later I was Ground Search Coordinator and Ground Operations Director. I even got Observer qualified because all the cool GTL’s had observer wings already and I had to fit in. Now of course that’s all changed but I am still qualified as an Observer, GTL, and Ground Branch Director. I even served as Commandant of NGSAR’s Advanced School in 1999 at Camp Atterbury, IN. That was a blast but I have to admit that it wasn’t very organized that year. I had no clue what my duties or responsibilities were and no one ever gave me a syllabus of what was supposed to be taught to these “advanced” ground team members. It was a fun experience though, and the people were great.

Along with ES I became heavily involved with the Cadet Program (CP). I chose this as my specialty track and earned a master rating in record time, which wasn’t very hard to be honest with you. I memorized the cadet programs manuals and everything relating to cadets. I grew up pretty quick after not being taken serious as a younger senior. I got tired of no one listening to me so I started doing things on my own; however, I was still limited in my involvement. When the DCC left, I expected to be put in the position but I was wrong. Instead, the commander felt that a former army officer new to CAP with no experience working with cadets made for a better DCC. At the same time I was offered a DCC position at another local squadron, a squadron that was struggling with about every part of the program. There were about 5 or 6 active cadets from the “good old days” who were all considered staff but had no subordinates. Luckily that gang was leaving for college soon so I could start from scratch. I brought over 3 highly motivated cadets from my former squadron and started from there. I put together a Training Flight (T-Flight) program and began a huge recruiting campaign. My recruiting style was much different however. I was critical of who I let in. I wanted quality, not quantity. My goal was to build a solid corps of sharp cadets, not a group of kids looking to have fun and fly in planes. I was upfront with the parents and perspective cadets during orientation briefings where I advised them that is was tough and we expected a lot, but the rewards were great. That got rid of some of the potential crybabies and “attention stealers”. An attention stealer is a cadet that requires far more attention than he or she is worth. In 6 months our numbers rose from 3 or 4, to almost 30. We had two T-Flight graduations and everyone was in complete uniforms. T-Flight was by far the best creation to come about in my time as DCC. T-Flight just has to be done right, by keeping it very simple and to the point while maintaining strict discipline and military structure; it will produce top quality cadets.

For about three years the squadron soared above the rest. We soon had 15 to 20 squadron members checking in on the weekly radio net and we made up about 70% of the total cadets who attended encampments and NCSA’s in that 3-year time frame. Retention was at 100% for 2 straight years while our recruiting efforts were no longer needed. By now we had enough people that the word was getting out. It was cool to be in CAP! In that time 4 of my cadets went to academies and all others either went in the military or off to college. None of them just hung around milking their parents for money. It was great, I couldn’t ask for more.

Through my time as a senior I was sort of known as a troublemaker, mostly at the wing level. I refuse to stand for being belittled or treated as a second-class citizen. And I definitely don’t stand for incompetence or stupidity. I once had the wing commander so mad that he stormed out of his wing headquarters and went home. He was mad because none of my cadets took part in the annual report to congress, where DCWG cadets distribute the annual report throughout congress. I told him that of the 5 that were able to take off from school none of them had service dress uniforms that met the standard so I told them no. He said send them anyway. My argument was that they would only embarrass our organization and I didn’t want to be responsible for that. On another occasion I stopped a squadron commander from “hooking up his son” with a Mitchell award before going off to college. It was a total farce, he was a staff sergeant and it was June. No way for him to make lieutenant before August. His argument was that he had been in CAP for two years so he met the time requirement. I stopped that and managed to get blacklisted from the squadron from that day forward. My feelings are that we are an auxiliary of the United States Air Force and while we do have young kids in the program, these kids have a desire to be better than their peers and want to live a certain lifestyle. If they can’t hang with the program they can go elsewhere. It’s okay to not want to be in CAP, just like the military, it’s not for everyone.

Progressing through the program as a senior is a little bit harder than when I was a cadet. As a cadet you could test for your rank and wait two months between promotions. As a senior I found myself attending weekend courses, taking a correspondence course and waiting years between promotions. It’s a good program though and I have enjoyed the ride. It was cool being a 26-year-old Major when half the people thought I was still a cadet. The toughest thing is trying to get into a Region Staff College. It seems to happen when I’m not available or cancels due to lack of participation. I think I’ll try for another region next year.

Perhaps one of my biggest complaints in CAP is other seniors that just can’t seem to comprehend the right mindset for leading and managing cadets or being involved with emergency services. Maybe it’s the fact that I was a cadet, or that I served in a very strict unit in the army, but I just can’t stand the lack of military bearing, discipline, or ability to make decisions. We wear a military uniform, why not wear it right? We have grooming standards, why not meet them? It’s not okay to wear your uniform if you didn’t shave. It’s not okay to show up wearing a wrinkled blues shirt. For ES, I find far too many members acting more than doing. Acting like they’re something they aren’t. We’re not Marine Recon, nor are we the local-yokel SAR group made up of tree hugging environmentalist. We are a separate organization that operates as the official auxiliary of the U.S. Air Force. We wear their uniform, follow their same rank structure, and use their exact customs and courtesies. Just like the Air Force has Pararescuemen, we have Ground Team Members. They are professionals of their own accord, as we should strive to be, albeit as volunteers. We don’t need to act like anyone but ourselves. We have a lot of different equipment to choose from but we all conform to the same national standard, and our uniform is prescribed and should be worn as outlined in our uniform manual; nothing more, nothing less. There is no need for knives strapped to your leg, and the boonie cap doesn’t really do much more than the authorized BDU soft cap. Why be different? Why detract from our goal of uniformity? It’s not what we’re about. Join the Scouts if you want to wear what you want. And to those seniors who join with your kids, stay away from command or leadership positions if you can. No matter how hard people try, if they even attempt to try, there always seems to be problems. I can’t stand watching a parent who is a senior hold their cadet’s hand and walk them through the program. Half the time the cadet doesn’t even want to be in the program but mommy and daddy thinks it’ll give them discipline and help them mature. Yeah, well, they’re not going to learn a darn thing if you give them everything or hold their hand.

Encampments are definitely the most important experience a cadet will ever have. Even as a senior member I attended two encampments. However, as a senior, it’s more work than fun and the celebration doesn’t happen until it’s over. I recommend all senior members to take the time to experience an encampment. You will be a far better senior if you do. As a senior, I learned a lot about cadets that I didn’t know. You learn that they mess up a lot, but after enough mess-ups they’ll eventually get it. You can’t hold their hand and you certainly shouldn’t bubble wrap them.  Falling down, getting bruised, and making mistakes is an important part of life.

I often look back on my cadet days and compare it to the cadets today. I find so many differences and think that while cadets definitely have a better program and more opportunities, I can’t possibly think they are having as much fun as I did as a cadet. Cadets today seem to depend on leadership and instruction from their seniors, whereas a cadet, everything required lots of tracking down, phone calls, initiative, and going out of your way to make things happen. Granted, the Internet has been a huge asset by reducing the need for a lot of work, but still, it’s like cadets are afraid to go out and try to do something extra. Who knows, but I have one heck of a photo album that illustrates all the fun we had as cadets.

A personal obstacle I’ve found myself struggling with is being comfortable in my uniform outside of a group of other members. Like there is safety in numbers, but what am I afraid of? Here in the Washington DC area there are a ton of military, and pretty much everyone knows what uniform is what. So, when you walk around in BDUs with oddly colored nametapes and patches, you get stared at a lot, and I’m not one for drawing attention to myself. One wish that I have always had is for the entire nation to know about CAP; to look at us and see something familiar, as if they were looking at a Boy Scout or police officer. I’m not embarrassed at all; I just feel like people haven’t a clue about CAP. It also gets old having to explain who we are. I don’t mind recruiting, but most people can’t really comprehend what and who we are by hearing “oh, we’re the air force auxiliary”. That’s why I tell everyone not to recruit, just make us known and people will come. This is another reason I don’t agree with the CAP race car. Not enough people watch racing to really make an impact. Heck, as far as I can tell there aren’t even any races on the West coast. I think the sum was $11 Million. I have no idea what it costs, but I’m sure a commercial costs a lot less than that. A 30-second commercial showing some images of cadets at encampment, doing ES, shooting off a rocket, and flying would do more for spreading the word than a race car. No offense to Ashton Lewis, I’d take the gig too if they offered it to me, but the wizards at National really should have thought this one through a little better.

Well, that’s about it with the stories and thoughts of the last 15 years of my life. CAP has been one of the best ongoing things in my life. I love wearing the uniform and I love the people. I have learned so much about being a leader and manager. I’ve had my pride bruised on many occasions but I’ve walked away a better person each time. I’ve managed to tick a lot of people off but only by doing what I feel is right. I never let my standards drop for any reason. I carry myself as a professional volunteer and as a mentor at all times. I’ve learned that no matter what, cadets will take advantage of any chance they can to exploit your deficiencies or shortcomings. For this very reason I feel it’s imperative to maintain my military bearing at all times. This doesn’t mean I’m mean or that I don’t have fun. Trust me, I live to make light of almost every situation. I feel that life is way too short to not have fun or to not take chances. I’ve failed at a few things in life and even in CAP, but it’s no big deal. At least I tried and I know that I learned something from trying and failing. I often think that cadets aren’t allowed to fail, as if it’s a bad thing. No one wants to mess up, get hurt, or fail a test or mission, but some of the best lessons are learned from this and I’m living proof of this theory.

I will close by saying this; CAP is a unique organization with all the pieces of a huge puzzle. Some pieces are more difficult than others, and just when you think you found a home for a piece, you find that it doesn’t fit. We are all pieces of that puzzle, and some people are pieces of a different puzzle. And that’s okay, too. I love being a part of this small group of American volunteers. I truly believe that we are doing something good for the youth of our country and for our country itself. It has often been said that we are more secret than the CIA and sometimes I think it’s true. My goal as a CAP member is to do my best to make it cool to be a part of CAP. As a cadet, people made fun of me and the gang for playing GI Joe. I want members of the military to realize that we’re more than a bunch of wannabe military officers and that our cadets are not just kids. They’re young adults who want to do more than just go to school and play video games. They want to be a part of something real and that they are willing to offer their time and energy to learn special skills, live a certain lifestyle, and be a part of something that requires them to work with others to reach a common goal.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on February 13, 2013, 11:27:53 PM
WIWAC, I looked like this....

Unauthorized beret, unauthorized subdued CAP insignia and patches, Kay-Bar knife strapped to LBE....

Circa 1990.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: AlphaSigOU on February 14, 2013, 07:18:16 PM
I can vouch for Garibaldi's 'war stories'; we were cadets in the same unit but in different time periods (1977-1979). Practically everything we used to do in our days when we were snot-nosed cadinks you can't get away with anymore. Bottle rocket combat, rappelling off Whiteside Mountain (I never got to rappel off the 750, plenty of times down the 250), week-long FTXs at a miserable place in far northeast Alabama called 'Arm Pit' and a tough wing encampment called a 'cadet leadership school'.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Walkman on February 21, 2013, 03:20:56 PM
I graduated in '89, so I would have been a cadet in MIWG during the times discussed. If I had know about CAP during HS, I would have been out-of-my-mind ate up about it. I remember me and a neighbor talking about forming our own Red Dawn unit as we each had some martial arts training.  ;)

One thing that occurs to me is that while there are some safety regs that prohibit some of the crazy experiences you gray beards had, it doesn't mean that we can't make the cadet experience just as awesome today. It just requires creativity, passion and a little fore-thought. I've been inspired to try to make some of my unit ES training better just from reading this.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Walkman on February 21, 2013, 04:00:40 PM
Some things I got to thinking about after digesting many of comments about “kids today”.

I’ve had discussions with my youth at church (I’m a youth minister) about the challenges they face today and how they are different than what I had to deal with. While kids today face may not have to deal with the same kinds of trouble many of us faced, their challenges are still pretty tough. Different, but still challenges.

When I was a teen, I wasn’t faced with a barrage of easily accessible pr0n all day long. Growing up, if you heard a “four letter word” on TV, it was shocking. Try resisting that kind of temptation as a 14 year old.

Yeah, there were bullies in school that called me names, but now not only are the taunts out there for all the world to see, but if you spend any time online, you’ll meet a horde of anonymous trolls that will eviscerate you mercilessly if crossed.

I played football in HS. My 1st year playing the sport was 8th grade. Now, if you want to even think about making the team in HS, you had better start playing in elementary school, and get on a traveling team and go to every workshop and training camp you can afford, basically turn your life over to the sport like you’re going to the Olympics. I’m watching my nieces & nephews go through this right now. They have no other life but hockey & softball.

I didn’t have a police officer at the door to my school, nor did I have metal detectors. None of my friends were suspended because of some Zero Tolerance policy because they wore a t-shirt that supported the troops. We had random fire drills, not active shooter lock-downs.

It’s a different world, for sure. Just like it was between our parents and us. But before we go dissing “kids today”, it would be good to acknowledge that growing up in the 21st century isn’t easy. In fact, I have to give props to the ones that make it out of adolescence with their wits and character intact. I don’t think I would have.

And really when you think about it, those kids that are glued to their Xboxes and iPhones are the result of parents who have dropped the ball. Kudos to those parents that make boundaries, say no and actually expect discipline and respect.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 13, 2014, 12:34:37 AM
First, thanks to Whatevah for unlocking this old thread.

I thought about this thread today while driving home. Sometimes when I am out on the road, I will see an old building or tin shed that reminds me of some of the old hangars and CAP buildings we used to meet in and work missions out of. Today, nearly all of our activities are run out buildings constructed in the last 20 years. They have internet, kitchenettes, and one cup gourmet coffee makers. WIWAC, our buildings were often WW2 era surplus and we felt lucky if we had indoor plumbing. Our coffee came out of silver "bullet" coffee pots and a phone was a luxury.

These old buildings are getting fewer and more far between. However, every once in a while I will see one and I will get that old familiar, nostalgic feeling. It is a good feeling.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 13, 2014, 12:36:59 AM
Also, WIWAC, this is what one of the "old breed" looked like....

(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/l/t1/40667_153487874661986_2671838_n.jpg)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Nor'easter on February 13, 2014, 01:37:21 AM
I thought about this thread today while driving home. Sometimes when I am out on the road, I will see an old building or tin shed that reminds me of some of the old hangars and CAP buildings we used to meet in and work missions out of. Today, nearly all of our activities are run out buildings constructed in the last 20 years. They have internet, kitchenettes, and one cup gourmet coffee makers. WIWAC, our buildings were often WW2 era surplus and we felt lucky if we had indoor plumbing. Our coffee came out of silver "bullet" coffee pots and a phone was a luxury.

These old buildings are getting fewer and more far between. However, every once in a while I will see one and I will get that old familiar, nostalgic feeling. It is a good feeling.

We meet in the renovated terminal leftover from WWII, when our airport was known as NAS Wildwood. Still, we don't have running water up on our occupied floor, and often don't even have heat! But we also get to keep our planes in the original 92,000 square foot WWII hangar  :D

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/1604798_821569181194019_1948745919_n.jpg)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: AlphaSigOU on February 13, 2014, 08:18:00 AM
Bringing out the old photos - the few that survived from my years as a cadink...

The first picture was of the Florida Wing contingent that attended the Air Training Command Familiarization Course (ATCFC - now Specialized Undergraduate Flying Training Familiarization Course) at Laughlin AFB in the hot summer of 1979. I'm the 'hardkewl' cadet sergeant in the front row, left squinting in the bright Texas sun.

The second picture was taken shortly after my promotion to cadet warrant officer and appointment to the Florida Wing Cadet Advisory Council as the chairman and representative for Group 15. The person next to me is a family friend.

The third picture is the earliest picture of me as a cadink in 1978... we're posing at the desk of Georgia congressman Larry McDonald (he would later die in the shootdown of Korean Air 007 in 1983) during the 'victory tour' of Washington DC by the 1977 National Cadet Competition champions. I wasn't on the team but a few cadets were included.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 13, 2014, 08:29:56 AM
 :clap: :clap: ;D
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: FW on February 13, 2014, 11:35:22 AM
Here is a picture of me and "the guys" back in 1969 during a group SAREX. The picture was taken behind our WW2 surplus "temporary buildings" (which lasted till 1997) at the NE Philadelphia Airport.  I'm the c/msgt looking really young! ;D
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Pulsar on February 13, 2014, 12:59:27 PM
Here is a picture of me and "the guys" back in 1969 during a group SAREX. The picture was taken behind our WW2 surplus "temporary buildings" (which lasted till 1997) at the NE Philadelphia Airport.  I'm the c/msgt looking really young! ;D

wow...that's ancient...

(this makes me respect you even more)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: a2capt on February 13, 2014, 02:18:49 PM
Bringing out the old photos - the few that survived from my years as a cadink...
Here, fixed it for you.. ;)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 13, 2014, 07:14:40 PM
OK, informal poll.

How many of you BITD carried a light green and loam GI camo stick in your LBE as cadet?

How many of you ever owned an GI angle head flashlight?

I still love the smell of canvas and sweat you got off of the old Vietnam-era web gear.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on February 13, 2014, 09:12:35 PM
OK, informal poll.

How many of you BITD carried a light green and loam GI camo stick in your LBE as cadet?

How many of you ever owned an GI angle head flashlight?

I still love the smell of canvas and sweat you got off of the old Vietnam-era web gear.
We always carried the camo face sticks. I still think the angle-head light (with a boot blouser to hold it on to the suspenders) is the best thing ever. And the canvas smell...oh, the memories...hang on, I'll upload a pic of me going on my first week-long post-Christmas winter FTX...

(http://i.imgur.com/03kKbB7.jpg)

Note the brand-new jungle boots. The two ammo cans I am sporting contain various...incindiary devices for our New Year's Eve festivities.  Under my coat is a gallon of Coleman fuel. Viet-Nam era steel pot my dad got for me when we went to Encampment (He tried to get me one of the de-milled plastic M-16s but no dice). The Dodge ambulance once sported red crosses, but the Gubmint got a lil' bit upset and made us change to blue. And I think I still had the canvas M-14 pouches but I'm not sure. I at one point went to the M-16 ammo pouches. Hard to believe that at one time I was skinny enough that I had a hard time fitting all the required stuff on my belt. Now there's room left over...stupid weight gain.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: JayT on February 13, 2014, 11:10:04 PM
I know today's teens get a bad wrap but a lot of it (not all) is deserved. I'm often ashamed of my generation.

Don't be. The current generation is no less or more screwed up then every other generation. It's all a matter of perception. People who look back at prior decades and say 'things were so much better back then' at just guilty of looking through rose colored glasses. People have been saying 'kids these days' since the second generation of human beings crawled out of the caves.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 13, 2014, 11:53:40 PM
Jay T=This is a recently unlocked thread. The post you quoted is over a year old. Just wanted to make sure you were aware.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 14, 2014, 08:41:07 PM
WIWAVYC: When I Was A Very Young Cadet

(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/47350_157158904294883_2161722_n.jpg)

If you look real close at the shirt, you will notice that it is a civilian dress shirt with one patch pocket on the left(picture) side under the Curry Ribbon. I am pretty sure this was in late 1977.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 14, 2014, 08:45:11 PM
That's me as a c/A1C on the left next to the US flag with the rifle.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/60921_159664890710951_8193462_n.jpg)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 14, 2014, 08:54:52 PM
A couple of years later. Here I am as a c/LtCol passing off the cadet commander's job to someone else. Yeah, I know about the hair. It was the early 80's. Note the old Coke machine by my squadron commander. Glass bottles!

(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/37631_147951221882318_2255542_n.jpg)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Stonewall on February 14, 2014, 10:24:49 PM
My favorite thing in the world is old school CAP, especially 70s through the late 80s.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 14, 2014, 10:54:36 PM
 Yeah, mine too.  :'(  ;)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Grumpy on February 15, 2014, 01:46:07 AM
Here is a picture of me and "the guys" back in 1969 during a group SAREX. The picture was taken behind our WW2 surplus "temporary buildings" (which lasted till 1997) at the NE Philadelphia Airport.  I'm the c/msgt looking really young! ;D

Memories.  Are those 505's or 1505's?  I wore both in CAP and the AF but I can't tell in that picture.  I wore the fatigues and actually liked the Ridgeway.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: FW on February 15, 2014, 10:20:58 AM
^They were 1505's; a little better at staying "unwrinkled"... :) Good times back then; before "Nam" became a bad word for many.  Our squadron had almost 100 cadets comming to meetings.  I still remember my basic "hell weekend" and Curry award ceremony. My first "O'flight" was a trip to AC's Bader Field.  I had to plot the course and plan the flight using pilotage, visiting the local FSS (at that time located at PNE) for a weather briefing.  Great memories indeed! It is the reason I'm still a member; it's a pleasure paying forward.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Pulsar on February 15, 2014, 04:00:58 PM
A couple of years later. Here I am as a c/LtCol passing off the cadet commander's job to someone else. Yeah, I know about the hair. It was the early 80's. Note the old Coke machine by my squadron commander. Glass bottles!

(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/37631_147951221882318_2255542_n.jpg)
What's the second ?name? plate under the other one.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: MSG Mac on February 15, 2014, 06:33:32 PM
A couple of years later. Here I am as a c/LtCol passing off the cadet commander's job to someone else. Yeah, I know about the hair. It was the early 80's. Note the old Coke machine by my squadron commander. Glass bottles!

(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/37631_147951221882318_2255542_n.jpg)
What's the second ?name? plate under the other one.

The one above the pocket says "Civil Air patrol Cadet" the one below is the Name Plate
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 15, 2014, 10:19:02 PM
To add to what Mac said, the nameplate looked something like the current blazer nametag without the mini grade.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: ol'fido on February 15, 2014, 10:19:52 PM
WIWAVYC: When I Was A Very Young Cadet

(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/47350_157158904294883_2161722_n.jpg)

If you look real close at the shirt, you will notice that it is a civilian dress shirt with one patch pocket on the left(picture) side under the Curry Ribbon. I am pretty sure this was in late 1977.
You can see both better in this picture.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: MSG Mac on February 20, 2014, 01:02:19 PM
WIWAVYC: When I Was A Very Young Cadet

(https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/47350_157158904294883_2161722_n.jpg)

If you look real close at the shirt, you will notice that it is a civilian dress shirt with one patch pocket on the left(picture) side under the Curry Ribbon. I am pretty sure this was in late 1977.
You can see both better in this picture.

The "CADET CIVIL AIR PATROL" was a metal badge, not plastic 
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: wacapgh on February 20, 2014, 05:38:06 PM
Bringing out the old photos - the few that survived from my years as a cadink...

The first picture was of the Florida Wing contingent that attended the Air Training Command Familiarization Course (ATCFC - now Specialized Undergraduate Flying Training Familiarization Course) at Laughlin AFB in the hot summer of 1979. I'm the 'hardkewl' cadet sergeant in the front row, left squinting in the bright Texas sun.

ATCFC in June of 1979 at Mather AFB in California.

We had just settled down for a class, when one of the Senior staff said "Everyone on the buses, NOW!" On the bus, down to the fightline, and just about enough time to go "Why are we standing-" the Alert Sirens go off. "Global Shield" had just been activated. The base commander let our staff know in time to get us down for a front row seat. 6 BUFF's and two tankers, from engine start to off the ground in about 11 minutes.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Eclipse on February 20, 2014, 05:47:54 PM
Wow - something to see...

SAC Global Shield 1983 - MITO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkjGvt6fBQ#)

Global Shield.mpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCnCXAhPDts#)

About 24:00 shows an alert in progress.
STRATEGIC AIR COMMAND - THE GLOBAL SHIELD - 1980 USAF DOCUMENTARY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFQQB-Dn5CQ#)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: PHall on February 20, 2014, 09:53:12 PM
It was even more thrilling to be a part of.   To be number 9 of a 12 ship MITO was a very smokey rock and roll ride!
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: bosshawk on February 20, 2014, 11:29:25 PM
The turbulent air from eight previous BUFFs must have really made for an interesting ride.  I am glad that I never had to do that.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: PHall on February 21, 2014, 12:31:26 AM
I was in a tanker. And yes it was an IFR rock and roll show!
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: rustyjeeper on March 01, 2014, 06:20:07 PM
OK, informal poll.

How many of you BITD carried a light green and loam GI camo stick in your LBE as cadet?

How many of you ever owned an GI angle head flashlight?

I still love the smell of canvas and sweat you got off of the old Vietnam-era web gear.

Yes to all of the above! :)
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Salty on June 25, 2014, 12:24:12 PM
WIWAC, my uncle owned and operated a local marina.  We used to go down there on Friday nights, have a big cookout and camp out.  The next day we would do land/marine navigation training, first aid training and search and rescue exercises.  SAREX's on land are a lot of fun but I always enjoyed our marine SAREX's way more.

EDIT:  T*A*P*S was the end all, be all movie for my cadet squadron.
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: Garibaldi on June 25, 2014, 12:54:59 PM
I don't know how common this was, but who carried the PRC-77 on FTXs and SAREXes? While wearing OD jungle fatigues and sleeping in either poncho or parachute shelters? And did night navigation at 2 in the morning in the jungles hills of North Georgia? Eating cold C-rations 3 meals a day?
Title: Re: WIWAC
Post by: AlphaSigOU on June 25, 2014, 01:01:22 PM
OORAH! PDK is the best! :)