http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,587217,00.html
Lesson #1. Dont try to run over the security officer.
I'm not entirely sure how driving a car through a barricade onto a military base could have possibly seemed like a good idea to anyone.
Important Safety Tip:
Never piss off the guy at the gate with the gun!
Haven't determined cause of death? Hint: Look for holes in chest approximately .38" in diameter (9mm for you metric Canadians). :)
I prefer .45
Good job on the Cop. This is ONLY speculation, but I think the military breeds MPs to be VERY hesitant about Officer Involved Shootings. And rightly so, but I am glad to see the cop did his job.
When I was in the Marines, MPs were not allowed to carry a round chambered. In fact, I used to watch them at the range, draw their M9's, rack the slide and shoot. Is that still the case or have we grown up?
When I was in an MP unit in '99 that was still the case. Although with our current mission I hope that isn't the case anymore.
Quote from: Flying Pig on February 25, 2010, 06:44:56 PM
I prefer .45
Good job in the Cop. This is ONLY speculation, but I think the military breeds MPs to be VERY hesitant about Officer Involved Shootings. And rightly so, but I am glad to see the cop did his job.
When I was in the Marines, MPs were not allowed to carry a round chambered. In fact, I used to watch them at the range, draw their M9's, rack the slide and shoot. Is that still the case or have we grown up?
That's because of risk averse officers. If one of your MPs shoots himself in the leg, your battalion commander will shoot your career.
HA...When I was in Marine Security Forces, we had two young PFCs standing post quick drawing on each other in the guard hut. I don't think the idea was to actually shoot each other....however, strangely enough, one of the PFCs ended up with a 9mm round through his palm, traveled down his forearm and exited his elbow. Oh, and they werent supposed to have rounds chambered either. Cant fix stupid.
WIWOAD after 9/11, one of my guys managed to shoot himself in the buttocks with his M9.
Very Gumpish. 8)
Ned,
Was that the lad at the airport?
Major Lord
Did either or both of them take stupid pills before they did that? ::)
I thought they installed the pop-up barriers at all the AFBs now. I know that the last 5 bases I've been to have had weave lanes, spike strips and pop-up barriers. I wouldn't even attempt to try to run the gate.
The idea of having a weapon is to be able to shoot when needed, not take time to lock and load. The M1911 had 4 safeties and I'm sure the M-9 has just as many. That extra 2 or 3 seconds could mean a good guy's life.
Israel has been training their people in the un-chambered method for years. Although I think its not a good idea, it keeps soldiers, whose primary weapons are generally not pistols from having a lot of Ad's ( or ND's as the new terminology goes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRdZ3hZ8y-w
I have met a couple of guys who could get rounds on the target faster this way than I could draw a 1911 in condition one from concealment and hit anything, but it is generally slower. Some argue that the extra time involved might help you to keep from smoking a bystander. I don't subscribe to the unloaded carry method myself. ( Although in California, you can legally carry an unloaded firearm in public, with full magazines on your belt, you had better be prepared to be challenged by almost every cop you come into contact with)
Major Lord
Air Force Security Forces carry the M-9 on fire with a round in the chamber.
No officer wants to be involved in something like this but good for him/her for defending him/her self.
Quote from: MSG Mac on February 25, 2010, 08:47:50 PM
The idea of having a weapon is to be able to shoot when needed, not take time to lock and load. The M1911 had 4 safeties and I'm sure the M-9 has just as many. That extra 2 or 3 seconds could mean a good guy's life.
Not to mention that requires your second hand. If that isn't "handy" you're toast.
The military has never been the leader in law enforcement tactics at the patrol level.
Quote from: MSG Mac on February 25, 2010, 08:47:50 PM
The idea of having a weapon is to be able to shoot when needed, not take time to lock and load. The M1911 had 4 safeties and I'm sure the M-9 has just as many. That extra 2 or 3 seconds could mean a good guy's life.
You can draw, put the selector on FIRE and pull the trigger with one hand on the M-9 with no problem.
You might need both hands if they're out past 25 yards and you need to steady the weapon...
USAF: M9 off SAFE, round in chamber
Navy/USMC: M9 on SAFE, round in chamber
Army: M9 on SAFE, no round in chamber <--Crazy
Note: The above discription is for Military Law Enforcement personnel while on "routine patrol/gate duty". This does not demonstrate how troops of any branch are carrying in theater.
I went to a Navy range with some MAs (master at arms - their version of SF/MP) and almost half drew their M9s and couldn't fire the first round because they forgot to take it off SAFE.
Believe it or not, the AF has it right when it comes to carrying M9s on duty.
Some may say the M4 is the primary weapon, not the M9. But while on patrol on a CONUS base, your M4 is carried with a magazine inserted, but no round chambered. IMHO, the condition of the M4 just made my M9 my primary weapon. If given time to charge my M4, then sure, I'd engage the bad guys with my M4.
Stonewall,
Roger that. I have never understood the lawyer-think that goes on when you order your people to carry a double action auto on safe, or god forbid, with the chamber empty. You never need a pistol until you need one badly.....Its a little off topic, but my daily carry gun is a single action 1911 style ( Strayer Voight Infinity) in .40 SW always carried condition one ( cocked, safety on for the non gun guys) and a Kahr K40 as my backup. Even then, I feel "light" without an 870 or an AR nearby....
Major Lord
Quote from: Stonewall on February 26, 2010, 02:09:09 AM
USAF: M9 off SAFE, round in chamber
Navy/USMC: M9 on SAFE, round in chamber
Army: M9 on SAFE, no round in chamber <--Crazy
A throwback to when most Army Posts were open and ANYONE could just drive on. Fort Lewis was always open to anyone, until 9/11. As was many other Posts. Fort McClellan (when it was one) was a tourist attraction in Alabama for years. About the only cool thing in Alabama anyway. Now, certain locations have always been closed but not like it is today.
Quote from: Stonewall on February 26, 2010, 02:09:09 AM
USAF: M9 off SAFE, round in chamber
Navy/USMC: M9 on SAFE, round in chamber
Army: M9 on SAFE, no round in chamber <--Crazy
Note: The above discription is for Military Law Enforcement personnel while on "routine patrol/gate duty". This does not demonstrate how troops of any branch are carrying in theater.
I went to a Navy range with some MAs (master at arms - their version of SF/MP) and almost half drew their M9s and couldn't fire the first round because they forgot to take it off SAFE.
Believe it or not, the AF has it right when it comes to carrying M9s on duty.
Some may say the M4 is the primary weapon, not the M9. But while on patrol on a CONUS base, your M4 is carried with a magazine inserted, but no round chambered. IMHO, the condition of the M4 just made my M9 my primary weapon. If given time to charge my M4, then sure, I'd engage the bad guys with my M4.
Doesn't the M9 have a firing pin block when you put the safety on? That right there is why you should run with the safety on if it does. It would prevent you from shooting yourself if it falls on the ground.
The firing pin block is always in front of the pin (safety on or off) until the trigger is pulled all the way to the rear. That is one of the reasons the air force allows SF to carry with safety off. ;D
Quote from: NCRblues on February 26, 2010, 09:16:44 AM
The firing pin block is always in front of the pin (safety on or off) until the trigger is pulled all the way to the rear. That is one of the reasons the air force allows SF to carry with safety off.
Yes, that.
A lot of people talk smack about the M9. While I wouldn't use it as a conceal carry pistol due to its size, I have never had a single issue with an M9. Regardless of caliber (they come in .40), it truly is a reliable and accurate handgun.
I have been carrying and firing the M9 since 1991. I have competed with it, I have qualified expert with it on the Army, Air Force and Navy courses of fire. Even as recent as last month I attended a Tactical Pistiol course taught by a retired Delta Master Sergeant where I was taking one handed shots as far as 100 yards and hitting steel targets.
The M9 is a good, accurate, reliable pistol.
Quote from: NCRblues on February 26, 2010, 09:16:44 AM
The firing pin block is always in front of the pin (safety on or off) until the trigger is pulled all the way to the rear. That is one of the reasons the air force allows SF to carry with safety off. ;D
Nice. That is a well thought out design. Carry on then ;D
Quote from: davidsinn on February 26, 2010, 03:25:07 PM
Quote from: NCRblues on February 26, 2010, 09:16:44 AM
The firing pin block is always in front of the pin (safety on or off) until the trigger is pulled all the way to the rear. That is one of the reasons the air force allows SF to carry with safety off. ;D
Nice. That is a well thought out design. Carry on then ;D
Obviously a bit of a tangent here but as far as safety features on pistols go the coolest one I have seen is the Bersa pistols which you can actually lock with a key on the side of the frame. It stops pretty much all movement except the magazine release.
I can't find my car keys when I leave for work (non pressure). I can't imagine trying to find the key to my weapon to save my life (lots of pressure). The safety features on the M1911 A1 are designed to keep the pistol from firing except when it is firmly in the hand of the shooter with a magazine in the well. The colt company knew what the heck they were doing.
Quote from: Gunner C on February 26, 2010, 10:52:38 PM
I can't find my car keys when I leave for work (non pressure). I can't imagine trying to find the key to my weapon to save my life (lots of pressure). The safety features on the M1911 A1 are designed to keep the pistol from firing except when it is firmly in the hand of the shooter with a magazine in the well. The colt company knew what the heck they were doing.
I'm not saying it's for everybody but it certainly is a good measure to keep a kid from shooting himself. I wasn't talking about accidental firing by qualified and competent adults, that is why I mentioned that it is a bit of a tangent from the conversation.
Quote from: Gunner C on February 26, 2010, 10:52:38 PM
I can't find my car keys when I leave for work (non pressure). I can't imagine trying to find the key to my weapon to save my life (lots of pressure). The safety features on the M1911 A1 are designed to keep the pistol from firing except when it is firmly in the hand of the shooter with a magazine in the well. The colt company knew what the heck they were doing.
Colt did not design the M1911. John Browning designed it and sold it to Colt.
Quote from: davidsinn on February 27, 2010, 12:43:10 AM
Quote from: Gunner C on February 26, 2010, 10:52:38 PM
I can't find my car keys when I leave for work (non pressure). I can't imagine trying to find the key to my weapon to save my life (lots of pressure). The safety features on the M1911 A1 are designed to keep the pistol from firing except when it is firmly in the hand of the shooter with a magazine in the well. The colt company knew what the heck they were doing.
Colt did not design the M1911. John Browning designed it and sold it to Colt.
Well, they knew what they were doing to buy such a well designed firearm.
Quote from: nesagsar on February 27, 2010, 12:49:06 AM
Quote from: davidsinn on February 27, 2010, 12:43:10 AM
Quote from: Gunner C on February 26, 2010, 10:52:38 PM
I can't find my car keys when I leave for work (non pressure). I can't imagine trying to find the key to my weapon to save my life (lots of pressure). The safety features on the M1911 A1 are designed to keep the pistol from firing except when it is firmly in the hand of the shooter with a magazine in the well. The colt company knew what the heck they were doing.
Colt did not design the M1911. John Browning designed it and sold it to Colt.
Well, they knew what they were doing to buy such a well designed firearm.
Yep. I've never met a browning that was a bad design.
Quote from: davidsinn on February 27, 2010, 12:43:10 AM
Quote from: Gunner C on February 26, 2010, 10:52:38 PM
I can't find my car keys when I leave for work (non pressure). I can't imagine trying to find the key to my weapon to save my life (lots of pressure). The safety features on the M1911 A1 are designed to keep the pistol from firing except when it is firmly in the hand of the shooter with a magazine in the well. The colt company knew what the heck they were doing.
Colt did not design the M1911. John Browning designed it and sold it to Colt.
When I was typing it I had originally put in Browning (I thought it was his) but I knew that Colt put it out. Good catch. And you're right, Browning never designed a bad weapon (just look at the .30 cal M1919 - it still lives in the M2 HB .50 cal (many of the same designs are in the M2, just updated, improved, and beefed up for a MUCH bigger round).
Ahhhhh, the Ma-Deuce. Her and I have spent many nights together
Similar incident at Redstone Arsenal today....
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/02/driver_who_died_in_redstone_ar.html
Driver who died in Redstone Arsenal crash identified
By The Associated Press
February 28, 2010, 5:34PM
HUNTSVILLE -- Redstone Arsenal officals are still investigating a fatal crash at one of its gates.
The driver has been identified as 39-year-old Larry Dewayne Payne of Vinemont. He was killed after his Chevrolet S10 crashed into a concrete bollard at Gate 9 around 4:30 a.m. Saturday.
Garrison Commander Col. Robert Pastorelli said no one else was injured.
Officials say Payne was approaching the gate "at an excessive speed" when he crashed into one of the concrete bollards and was going so fast that security guards didn't have time to respond.
Pastorelli said Payne wasn't an employee of the Arsenal and it's unclear why we was out on the road so early.
Pastorelli said officals aren't entirely sure Payne was trying to enter the gates but wouldn't release more information, citing the ongoing investigation.
^ Must have been a stuck accelerator pedal.
Maybe there is an IRS office at Redstone...
Quote from: heliodoc on March 01, 2010, 04:37:25 AM
Maybe there is an IRS office at Redstone...
Put the word "THE" and IRS" together. What does that spell??