CAP Talk

Operations => Emergency Services & Operations => Topic started by: calguy on January 27, 2010, 05:40:25 AM

Title: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: calguy on January 27, 2010, 05:40:25 AM
Crash pictures one that had two survivors at Joshua Tree, one with no survivors Cajon Pass.
Link:  http://picasaweb.google.com/SARGuy76/10M00xx#
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: SARGeek on January 27, 2010, 05:58:06 AM
Ouch! "Just a few dings around the edges..."

Thanks for the pics.

SARGeek
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: raivo on January 28, 2010, 11:16:08 PM
Um, my ES knowledge is a little outdated, but aren't we supposed to get permission before putting pictures out on the Internet for everyone to see?
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: BillB on January 29, 2010, 12:55:18 AM
Permission from who ?????  Pictures shot by CAP on an Air Force Mission, unless classified, might even  be considered public record. Do newspapers or TV stations need permission to print/broadcast pictures of anyone or thing of news value. The answer is a big No. (unless shot for profit)
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: RiverAux on January 29, 2010, 01:15:15 AM
The CAP PIO for that mission acting on behalf of the IC in accordance with 60-3, thats who. 
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: SarDragon on January 29, 2010, 02:03:16 AM
To the best of my knowledge, they were posted with the permission of the IC. He's in my unit. We had a lengthy discussion of the pix at our meeting last night.

There was nothing in them, except perhaps the FAA registration number, that could be considered sensitive.
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: raivo on January 29, 2010, 02:30:51 AM
Sounds good, just wasn't sure.
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: jeders on January 29, 2010, 06:53:36 PM
Actually, I would say they should be taken down. It's not always operational, there's also a measure of good taste on an open forum. A plane crash, particularly one with no survivors, is a horrific and terrible thing, and we need to have some reverence for that.

This is exactly why I tell all of my new trainees that if they ever post pictures of a real plane crash on the internet, they'll have a very unfriendly meeting with my boot.
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: Майор Хаткевич on January 29, 2010, 06:58:45 PM
Yea, those aren't what I'd call cool or something to brag about.
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: Flying Pig on January 29, 2010, 07:14:08 PM
I thought they both survived?
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: RiverAux on January 29, 2010, 07:22:09 PM
We don't really have any clear direction on publishing crash pictures in general.  Of course anything that shows anything graphic is out, but NHQ regularly publishes crash photos in the Volunteer.  So, I'd say that pending approval by the IC through the PIO, most photos that are in good taste would be acceptable to release.
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: heliodoc on January 29, 2010, 08:51:23 PM
Until CAP becomes the NTSB

I personally wouldn't be posting it here

Never know the legal type CAPers and how they would feel

Never know how the lawyers and insurance companies acting in behalf of the aircraft owner, pilot and others are going to react to CAP's new found asignment....aircraft crash photojournalism

Be careful when one picks up the phone >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: SarDragon on January 29, 2010, 09:17:05 PM
Pics 1 and 2 are of a fatal crash. According to folks who were there, everything was widely scattered. These pics were taken from an altitude that would preclude directly viewing bodies or parts.

Pics 3 through 11 were of the crash with survivors. All were taken after the occupants were removed.

None of these pics are any more graphic than what is shown on TV news.
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: calguy on January 30, 2010, 06:18:23 PM
First, these and other pictures were released and published by the media through the MIO.
The intent of the pictures was to show a job well done AND to show what a crash might look like with some snow on top of it as well as out in the open.  In addition, what a crash might look like after hitting the ground real hard!
CAP should use these in a scanner course for training and that is why the guy posted them to his web site. 
Most crashes are removed after the incident and can no longer be used for training.  Pictures are worth a thousand words, just try to find the one in the snow without the upclose shot!
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: EMT-83 on January 30, 2010, 07:14:40 PM
Is there anyone to contact for permission to use these for training? I've got a scanner class coming up and would like to include these photos.
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: flyguy06 on January 31, 2010, 03:16:51 AM
Quote from: calguy on January 30, 2010, 06:18:23 PM
First, these and other pictures were released and published by the media through the MIO.
The intent of the pictures was to show a job well done AND to show what a crash might look like with some snow on top of it as well as out in the open.  In addition, what a crash might look like after hitting the ground real hard!
CAP should use these in a scanner course for training and that is why the guy posted them to his web site. 
Most crashes are removed after the incident and can no longer be used for training.  Pictures are worth a thousand words, just try to find the one in the snow without the upclose shot!

You're intent and the reality could be different. Not saying it is but always keep that inmind when you are dealing with public open sites where anyone has accesss to.
Title: Re: CAWG Crash Pictures
Post by: jeders on February 01, 2010, 03:12:14 PM
Quote from: calguy on January 30, 2010, 06:18:23 PM
First, these and other pictures were released and published by the media through the MIO.
The intent of the pictures was to show a job well done AND to show what a crash might look like with some snow on top of it as well as out in the open.  In addition, what a crash might look like after hitting the ground real hard!
CAP should use these in a scanner course for training and that is why the guy posted them to his web site. 
Most crashes are removed after the incident and can no longer be used for training.  Pictures are worth a thousand words, just try to find the one in the snow without the upclose shot!

Using them for training is great. In fact, if I lived in an area with any real terrain I'd probably use the ones from altitude for MS/MO training. But put them in a slide show on a squadron computer, not on the internet.

The 4 in the middle are the ones I would take out. We're CAP, not the 6 o'clock news.