Group commander in my area has a program that sets up Cadets with CAP flight instructors and CAP aircraft in their area. Just waiting on final wing approval and I'll be all set to begin formal flight training with my instructor. I've got to pay my way sure, but with CAP it makes it manageable.
The Group is even setting up a Ground School for those of us in the program, to get our written done. So it looks like the rest is up to us. I did my solo through National Flight Academy but I should be on my way towards my ticket.
This is a killer program set up by the Group Commander. If I was the Air Force, I would make this sort of real training the primary goal of the Civil Air Patrol. Get cadets rated as pilots and get them interested in the Air Force!
Quote from: Fuzzy on January 19, 2010, 10:15:43 PMIf I was the Air Force, I would make this sort of real training the primary goal of the Civil Air Patrol. Get cadets rated as pilots and get them interested in the Air Force!
And who is paying for this?
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of ground instruction, especially, because it costs nothing and gets everyone something tangible.
We did something similar a few years ago.
But when you start suggesting that primary flight instruction should be a mission of CAP...well, we all know what the fundamental forces of flight are...
Remember, the Air Force isn't all pilots and airplanes.
WIWOAD, I was told (by someone in the AF who should know what he was talking about) that over half the tech schools in the AF were non-aircraft associated.
Who is paying for us to fly right now? Will it be easy? No. But if we set it as a goal to make it work we can do it. Besides we have already proved that Nationally we can get a large fleet of Aircraft in the air.
I know everyone won't agree but I think its a fundamental way we could be supporting USAF.
QuoteRemember, the Air Force isn't all pilots and airplanes.
WIWOAD, I was told (by someone in the AF who should know what he was talking about) that over half the tech schools in the AF were non-aircraft associated.
I was thinking that too. I'm sure something equivalent could be done as well. Sort of like specially tracks that would apply for cadets after they have learned the fundamentals.
Quote from: Fuzzy on January 19, 2010, 10:32:35 PM
Who is paying for us to fly right now?
It depends,
USAF or the customer on AFAMS.
USAF for most O-rides.
Wing budgets or the customer on corporate missions.
Wing budgets or the aircrew on training flights.
Members on just about anything else (either directly or through activity fees).
Grand statements like "we can make it work" look great on t-shirts and tend to fall short for activities that cost upwards of $100 an hour.
You haven't answered the question. Who is paying for
your plan?
Settle down dude.
Ideally USAF would provide the lions share of the Flight Training budget (Which in my mind would be a large scale program) but CAP might have to supply some of the cash through donations or however else we raise it.
It would take away from other programs yes. This would probably be a directional shift for the entire Civil Air Patrol. I think however its a good direction for CAP to nationally take. Serve the USAF by providing youth an opportunity to learn about Aerospace and even eventually earn their rating. Other career opportunities could be offered as well through specialty tracks for cadets.
We'd be directly supporting USAF and they would support us where we need it. Just as they do now.... except different. Just my humble opinion.
Quote from: Fuzzy on January 19, 2010, 11:29:00 PM
Settle down dude.
Dude? You may want to check that,
cadet. Its one thing for a bunch of adults to give each other grief, something else for a cadet to expect to be able to do the same to senior members
Ideally the USAF would pay for all kinds of things. They don't.
You still haven't answered the question, and the odds are its because you don't know.
Who is paying for your Group CC's program? Until you can answer that with anything other than "the members" or "Group funds", your idea, while well-intentioned, is not scalable.
Edit: That's twice today I glossed over important details - I see yo are paying the way, which is fine, have fun, but don't expect too many others to do that, or the USAF to start picking up the gas anytime soon.
Just take it easy now. No need to get excited. I pay for the Group CC's Program. I pay the gas and for use of the aircraft. The Senior Officer is good enough to offer his time and knowledge free of charge.
USAF pays for USAF missions right? So its not completely unreasonable that they would pay for it. Especially if you revamped a lot of the Civil Air Patrol to focus on the Cadets and getting them interested in USAF careers and eventually get them along the way in the fields they are looking at.
Its scalable if we somehow manage to keep the membership that already flying in the air. Use them as a proof of concept and work it so that they can still work with the emergency services when needed, but a central part of the aircraft is Flight Training.
Not everyone will like it and obviously its Cadet centralized, but I don't think its impossible or a downright horrible idea.
It's great that the Group commander is facilitating training by offering a Private Pilot ground school. That is just one step towards obtaining a license. The most expensive part is of course flight training itself. This is also where CAP has the potential to conflict with the local FBO. One of many reasons why CAP stopped permitting senior training towards a Private license was that perceived conflict whether true or not.
If it takes the national average of 55-60 hours @ $80/hour for a 172 (instructor is free) you will need upwards of $4400+. The ground school might be free but there is a fee to take the actual FAA test. I think it's about $180.
Good luck with your training.
Quote from: sparks on January 20, 2010, 12:03:10 AM
If it takes the national average of 55-60 hours @ $80/hour for a 172 (instructor is free) you will need upwards of $4400+. The ground school might be free but there is a fee to take the actual FAA test. I think it's about $180.
Not sure where you've taken your writtens, but mine have always been around $80-$100.
It's nice that a group has taken the effort to put some direction for cadets to follow after flight academies. A lot of cadets will never continue beyond one.
For the AF standpoint, I could see it happening as a CAP function to cheaply train AF cadets heading toward SUPT for increased success rate. An investment like this can be easily seen for returns. CAP cadets have no obligation and are going to be a far greater investment financially in the long term. There's already funding for cadet orientation flights and tell me how consistent that is nationally. The program doesn't require pilots to be CFIs and funding is essentially all covered. As a national plan, there are lots of instructors who will fly for free, but nationally it would be a difficult program to keep going.
At the squadron level, we established a program for cadet flight instruction. There is a document for parents to sign, where they agree to pay expenses, and a pretty good idea of what the expenses might be. They also acknowledge that there is no guarantee that junior will earn his ticket, but they still gotta pay. :)
So far, we've had one cadet solo, and another is on his way. For cadets serious about flight instruction, it's a very good deal.
My old squadron and a local aviation non-profit collaborated to set a Solo and Private Pilot program for cadets. Up to solo the cadet pays 50% of the costs (about $30 per hour, they also worked out a great deal with the local flight school), and assuming they solo and complete their written within 90 days, they move onto the PPL program which covers 75%, leaving the cadet to pay $15 per hour. It is an incredible program for them, for obvious reasons.
Quote from: DC on January 20, 2010, 09:44:19 PM
My old squadron and a local aviation non-profit collaborated to set a Solo and Private Pilot program for cadets. Up to solo the cadet pays 50% of the costs (about $30 per hour, they also worked out a great deal with the local flight school), and assuming they solo and complete their written within 90 days, they move onto the PPL program which covers 75%, leaving the cadet to pay $15 per hour. It is an incredible program for them, for obvious reasons.
That sounds like a good prgram.