Since many threads have been about 2B actions, and the organization of CAP. Here is a question. How many members have been 2B'd or removed from office due to politics of CAP?
+2
Quote from: BillB on December 28, 2009, 01:27:18 PM
Since many threads have been about 2B actions, and the organization of CAP. Here is a question. How many members have been 2B'd or removed from office due to politics of CAP?
Directly? None.
I don't think there has ever been a 2b that said "SM won't keep his mouth shut and is always giving me a hard time. He actively works against me and tries to make me look bad"
But there are a lot of people who have played the political game and allowed themselves to step over a line and get 2b'ed.
In my 25 years in CAP, I have never seen anyone 2b'd. We have plenty of memberson our roster that never cometo meetings. I know two guys that joined in 1992 and have only had level 1. My commander doesnt see the need to 2b them. He is like "How is it going to benefit us the unit to 2 b them?"
Really, who cares? If they keep paying their dues, what harm does it do to just leave them on your roster? None. As a Sq. Commander I have several people on my roster whom I have never met. But every year they renew. Who knows, maybe they have good intentions of getting back in some day. Maybe they like being a part of the organization even if inactive. Maybe it gets them a discount at the local Aero Club. Again, who cares. It does nothing to negative to CAP. Just look at it as an $80 donation to CAP every year.
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 30, 2009, 04:29:52 PM
Really, who cares? If they keep paying their dues, what harm does it do to just leave them on your roster? None. As a Sq. Commander I have several people on my roster whom I have never met.
Keeping them as "active" (vs. patron or 000) incorrectly reports our membership strength up the entire channel, may, in some cases, artificially keep charters open that should be closed (which is a disservice to the members in that unit who "think" they are in CAP), and means that you are ignoring any number of mandates regarding required training for
all members such as OPSEC, EOT, etc., which in turn means the wing will be under constant scrutiny as to why they have a non-100% completion rate.
There is also administrative overhead for every empty shirt left on the books.
Patron status or 000 relieves all of the above and still allows them to contribute their money and maintain the affiliation.
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 30, 2009, 04:29:52 PM
Really, who cares? If they keep paying their dues, what harm does it do to just leave them on your roster? None. As a Sq. Commander I have several people on my roster whom I have never met. But every year they renew. Who knows, maybe they have good intentions of getting back in some day. Maybe they like being a part of the organization even if inactive. Maybe it gets them a discount at the local Aero Club. Again, who cares. It does nothing to negative to CAP. Just look at it as an $80 donation to CAP every year.
Rob: I agree with you.
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 30, 2009, 04:29:52 PM
Really, who cares? If they keep paying their dues, what harm does it do to just leave them on your roster? None. As a Sq. Commander I have several people on my roster whom I have never met. But every year they renew. Who knows, maybe they have good intentions of getting back in some day. Maybe they like being a part of the organization even if inactive. Maybe it gets them a discount at the local Aero Club. Again, who cares. It does nothing to negative to CAP. Just look at it as an $80 donation to CAP every year.
Rob,
I agree with most of what yousaid. But that last part about getting discount at an Aero Club, I strongly disagree with . here is why:
My unit actually had that situation while ago. There was a Navy Flying Club at the local NAS and in order to be a member you had to be active duty reserve or Guard member or the spouse of such or you could be in the CAP. We had a lot of members join only to become members of this discounted flying club. They never came to CAP meetings. never even bought a uniform, never did anything for CAP. I used to ask them if they could help us out at a SARex or an airshow and they would always tell me how busy they were. BUT I would go up to the flying club and there they would be just chillin.
Now here is how I see it. The Navy Flying club is a military benefit much like the PX, the bowling alley or the on base gas station. Its discounted flying. Those of us in the real military have "earned" the right to take advantage of this military benefit. We earned it through blood, sweat and tears. Now a CAP member that participates actively in CAP, they have earned it as well, but the guy that just pays his dues? what has he done to earn the privilege of flying out of a discounted flying club? military servicemembers give a lot for their country. Why should this guy who merely pays dues enjoy the same privilege as those who serve their nation proudly?
Anyway, sorry to deviate from the topic, but that really burns me when people take advantage of the system just because of whats written in the regs. They need to look at the spirit of the reg and what its intent is.
We had the same situation we sat those members down and informed them that we expected them to hold an active position in the squadron or ww would transfer them to the 000 Squadron and tell the Navy that these members were no longer members of the local squadron and that we couldn't verify their memberships. We kept about 3/4ths of them and have gotten a lot of service from them.
Unless you were directly involved in a 2b its kind of hard to say whether or not it was "political". The most relevant incident I'm aware of that could have been considered political by the person getting the 2b seems to have also had some real justifications behind it as well, but I was too far away to say for sure.
Now, I know people who were relieved of their positions in CAP because of what some would call political reasons, but then commanders have the ability to that at will in CAP for any reason that gets in their head including ones that wouldn't stand up to the MARB if they tried to demote them for the same reason.
I think that most of the time what we might call "political 2bs" relate to individuals that get a reputation as a troublemaker. In their own eyes they probably see themselves as trying to improve CAP by questioning the leaders and the programs, but it takes a very delicate hand to do that in a non-disruptive way. Some people just don't have the common sense necessary to pull this off and out they go.
^ Agreed.
Whether or not something was a "political" 2B or not is completely based on perspective. I was threatened with a 2B once for what I considered to be pretty political reasons, but I don't doubt that the people on the other side had what they considered to be valid reasons, whether real or justified after the fact.
Maybe a good indication of the "political influence" of a 2B can only be seen if a member survives the attempt. ;)
I got threatened with a 2B once because my squadron commander decided he wanted to play fast and loose with the rules and tossed me and another cadet under the bus to save his own skin when he got caught.
Until the rest of the squadon stepped up and said "Uh, yeah, no, thats not how it went.."
He wound up reassigned, I got promoted. Who says there ain't no justice? :)
But I'd argue that his actions were political, in that he was playing politics with our nearby units and our group commander over a group policy that he flagrantly busted and then didn't want to admit or make nice-nice over.
Heard rumors of them when I was in FLWG in the late 80's. Never had any personal knowlege of one though