CAP Talk

General Discussion => The Lobby => Topic started by: RADIOMAN015 on December 16, 2009, 10:27:53 PM

Title: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: RADIOMAN015 on December 16, 2009, 10:27:53 PM
The BOG minutes of December 2008, showed that CAP was expecting a $4.4M cut in it's operating budget.  It was also presented that the aircraft fleet would be reduced by more than 100 aircraft.

My understanding is that cadet orientation flights have been severely cut, but at squadron level, no one really knows that status of the AF support budget for CAP and how it will affect us.

Anyone have the latest news on where we are with AF funding?
RM 
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: jimmydeanno on December 16, 2009, 10:33:03 PM
I think that we'll have a better picture when the defense budget for FY10 is approved.  Until then it is just speculation. 

That 4.4 million is what I have heard as well, but there's also news that we've some support on getting it restored.

Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: Smokey on December 16, 2009, 10:40:04 PM
I heard on the radio today that the Senate is supposed to deal with the DOD budget before Christmas.  Maybe (ha ha) they really will take a break from Obamacare and get down to important stuff like the Defense budget.
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: RiverAux on December 16, 2009, 11:11:02 PM
The Dec 2008??? meeting?  Sort of old news, isn't it? 
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: Short Field on December 17, 2009, 12:09:19 AM
Quote from: Smokey on December 16, 2009, 10:40:04 PM
I heard on the radio today that the Senate is supposed to deal with the DOD budget before Christmas.  Maybe (ha ha) they really will take a break from Obamacare and get down to important stuff like the Defense budget.

The Defense budget is almost always the last budget bill passed since it is a "must pass" bill and affords lawmakers lots of opportunities to add their pet projects and charities to it.   
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: Tubacap on December 17, 2009, 03:00:02 AM
Having actually read through some of the Defense Reauthorization Acts of recent years, it is very interesting what is in those bills.  It almost doesn't look like it has much to do with DoD.
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: NCRblues on December 17, 2009, 03:37:37 AM
Discovered some pork barrel funds have you? ;D
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: Phil Hirons, Jr. on December 17, 2009, 03:03:26 PM
Quote from: NCRblues on December 17, 2009, 03:37:37 AM
Discovered some pork barrel funds have you? ;D

More like you have to discover the DOD spending. ;D
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: RADIOMAN015 on December 21, 2009, 01:18:30 AM
Good news, just got a message sent to all wing members from our wing commander that CAP's funds as part of the DOD budget was reinstated by congress:

Sec. 8025. (a) Of the funds made available in this Act, not less than
$33,756,000 shall be available for the Civil Air Patrol Corporation, of
which--

    (1) $26,433,000 shall be available from ``Operation and Maintenance, Air
Force'' to support Civil Air Patrol Corporation operation and maintenance,
readiness, counterdrug activities, and drug demand reduction activities
involving youth programs;

    (2) $6,426,000 shall be available from ``Aircraft Procurement, Air
Force''; and

    (3) $897,000 shall be available from ``Other Procurement, Air Force''
for vehicle procurement.

    (b) The Secretary of the Air Force should waive reimbursement for any
funds used by the Civil Air Patrol for counter-drug activities in support of
Federal, State, and local government agencies.
RM
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: RiverAux on December 21, 2009, 02:34:16 AM
Does part b mean that the AF can't require local governments to reimburse the AF for the cost of CD flights?  Didn't know that was something that had to be renewed annually. 

FYI, this does represent a cut -- the CAP 2008 annual report had us with 35 million in Congressional funds.  Don't know what we had in 09.
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: FW on December 21, 2009, 01:03:09 PM
In FY 2008, we received about $33 million from congress.  In FY 2009 it was almost $37 million.
You figure out if we went up or down..... >:D
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: RiverAux on December 21, 2009, 09:38:49 PM
hmm, no comm or vehicle procurement? 
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: FW on December 21, 2009, 10:00:53 PM
^comm procurement is in the budget as a line item or end of year purchase.  vehicles are included as stated above.  However, how did the contract for the vehicles go to a member's employer?  CAP and DoDgars prohibit a member from profiting.  I'd love to get an answer to this..... :o
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: RiverAux on December 21, 2009, 10:04:13 PM
oops, missed that vehicle line. 

Where does it say that the vehicle contact is going to anyone in particular? 
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: FW on December 21, 2009, 10:30:13 PM
I know people who know people..... >:D

This could be more than interesting...
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: davidsinn on December 22, 2009, 04:42:03 PM
Quote from: FW on December 21, 2009, 10:00:53 PM
^comm procurement is in the budget as a line item or end of year purchase.  vehicles are included as stated above.  However, how did the contract for the vehicles go to a member's employer?  CAP and DoDgars prohibit a member from profiting.  I'd love to get an answer to this..... :o

Was said member in a position to effect negotiations?
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: FW on December 22, 2009, 04:53:43 PM
^from what I know; yes.  However, it should not matter.  The regulations governing contracts and, bidding on them, are specific.  NO MEMBER MAY PROFIT on any action.  We are volunteers, do not get paid and, we are not to influence the bidding process (especially) when govt. funds are involved (we are talking about $900k). That is against the law (FWA).  I think we have some very embarrassed NHQ employees right now, as they may have had the wool draped over their eyes.   :o
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: davidsinn on December 22, 2009, 05:57:55 PM
Quote from: FW on December 22, 2009, 04:53:43 PM
^from what I know; yes.  However, it should not matter.  The regulations governing contracts and, bidding on them, are specific.  NO MEMBER MAY PROFIT on any action.  We are volunteers, do not get paid and, we are not to influence the bidding process (especially) when govt. funds are involved (we are talking about $900k). That is against the law (FWA).  I think we have some very embarrassed NHQ employees right now, as they may have had the wool draped over their eyes.   :o

I could see a difference if it was Capt. Smith of Podunk Cadet Sqdn. vs Col. Peacock National-(pick your position) officer.

The first in my opinion wouldn't be an issue as we are bound to have volunteers that work at all of the major manufacturers. The second should get the full force of law thrown at them.
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: FW on December 22, 2009, 06:17:47 PM
LT, you are correct; to a point.  If Capt Smith brought the contract to national and, did not disclose he/she would profit by it, we have FWA.  If "National Motors", where Capt Smith worked, made a bid for the contract,  there would not be a problem; unless Capt Smith drew up the contract and a commision was paid to Capt Smith (FWA again).  The contract regulations for CAP are very specific and do need special skill in interpreting.  The only reason I bring this forward is because I do have some experience with the regs and,  the information given me came from involved individuals. 

Until the matter is fully investigated, I don't know what the outcome of this will be.  It is unfortunate however, this is a matter for discussion.
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: davidsinn on December 22, 2009, 06:36:07 PM
Quote from: FW on December 22, 2009, 06:17:47 PM
LT, you are correct; to a point.  If Capt Smith brought the contract to national and, did not disclose he/she would profit by it, we have FWA.  If "National Motors", where Capt Smith worked, made a bid for the contract,  there would not be a problem; unless Capt Smith drew up the contract and a commision was paid to Capt Smith (FWA again).  The contract regulations for CAP are very specific and do need special skill in interpreting.  The only reason I bring this forward is because I do have some experience with the regs and,  the information given me came from involved individuals. 

Until the matter is fully investigated, I don't know what the outcome of this will be.  It is unfortunate however, this is a matter for discussion.

I didn't consider all of those angles. You bring up good points. I hope this is something that comes out into the public eye and that person, if found guilty of wrong doing, is punished.
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: desertengineer1 on December 22, 2009, 07:12:26 PM
Quote from: FW on December 22, 2009, 06:17:47 PM
LT, you are correct; to a point.  If Capt Smith brought the contract to national and, did not disclose he/she would profit by it, we have FWA.  If "National Motors", where Capt Smith worked, made a bid for the contract,  there would not be a problem; unless Capt Smith drew up the contract and a commision was paid to Capt Smith (FWA again).  The contract regulations for CAP are very specific and do need special skill in interpreting.  The only reason I bring this forward is because I do have some experience with the regs and,  the information given me came from involved individuals. 

Until the matter is fully investigated, I don't know what the outcome of this will be.  It is unfortunate however, this is a matter for discussion.


Not really.  You have conflict of interest, not FWA, to which an investigation is usually what happens next.  Most of these are not ill intentioned, but you have to treat them all as such.

I'm confounded by just how many of our members just don't get it with respect to keeping away from this issue.  If you, a relative, or someone close to you stand to make even one penny off of something relating to a contract/service action that you had a role with arranging, you should be very afraid.

I just don't get it because I have this discussion with at least one CAP member every couple of months.  It usually results in the "come outside with me for a sec" followed by a "where is your brain, man?" discussion.
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: FW on December 22, 2009, 07:21:25 PM
yes, a conflict of interest is a good way to discribe the process however, it would probably be considered a fruad if the failure to disclose was proven. 

I agree 100% to your comments.  I'm also confounded by how many of our "leaders" keep forgetting this "inconvenient" truth.

Great post.  :clap:
Title: Re: CAP Budget Funding Woes?
Post by: wingnut55 on December 24, 2009, 09:44:44 AM
WOW

GREAT NEWS

I hope it is not just a rumor

The USAF was only requesting 22 million for us