CAP Talk

Operations => Emergency Services & Operations => Topic started by: Seabee219 on December 01, 2009, 04:36:59 AM

Title: Missions? what missions
Post by: Seabee219 on December 01, 2009, 04:36:59 AM
It seems all my unit does is pratice missions, there is things happening all over the place and no one calls us. We have MOUs to many people but CAP never calls on us to help anyone. Anyone else have any input....
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: Flying Pig on December 01, 2009, 05:35:27 AM
Your in the Phoenix area correct?  Phoenix PD is a POWER HOUSE for Air Support, Firefighting and SAR.  For cryin' out loud, those guys are flying AS350's and Agusta 119's and Koala's!!!  Soon they are taking delivery of a PC12 Spectre for transport, surveillance, SAR and whatever else they can use it for.  And it wouldnt surprise me in the least if that thing will have a Becker in it or some means to DF.  They can downlink video, photos, everything else.  CAP can keep SDIS, they are downlinking real time video, color or thermal.  Heck, both if you want it in split screen.  While flying on NVGs. I think Phoenix PD has like....20 pilots? 
The AZ Highway Patrol, again, a top notch air unit.  Flying Bell 407's with full EMS.  Excellent at SAR.  Phoenix PD has air assets that make me want to curl up in the corner and suck my thumb and cry for my mother.  Mesa PD, those guys are stacked as well.  And dont forget Maricopa County Sheriff with their 407's.  Plus, they have a 2-3 fixed wings also.

Sorry, but the only calls you are getting will be the ones they dont want.  And there arent any they dont want.

I hope I didnt sugar coat anything.
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: wuzafuzz on December 01, 2009, 12:34:57 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2009, 05:35:27 AM
Your in the Phoenix area correct?  Phoenix PD is a POWER HOUSE for Air Support, Firefighting and SAR.  For cryin' out loud, those guys are flying AS350's and Agusta 119's and Koala's!!!  Soon they are taking delivery of a PC12 Spectre for transport, surveillance, SAR and whatever else they can use it for.  And it wouldnt surprise me in the least if that thing will have a Becker in it or some means to DF.  They can downlink video, photos, everything else.  CAP can keep SDIS, they are downlinking real time video, color or thermal.  Heck, both if you want it in split screen.  While flying on NVGs. I think Phoenix PD has like....20 pilots? 
The AZ Highway Patrol, again, a top notch air unit.  Flying Bell 407's with full EMS.  Excellent at SAR.  Phoenix PD has air assets that make me want to curl up in the corner and suck my thumb and cry for my mother.  Mesa PD, those guys are stacked as well.  And dont forget Maricopa County Sheriff with their 407's.  Plus, they have a 2-3 fixed wings also.

Sorry, but the only calls you are getting will be the ones they dont want.  And there arent any they dont want.

I hope I didnt sugar coat anything.
Sounds like Arizona has a better air force than some countries!
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: N Harmon on December 01, 2009, 01:59:34 PM
How are they able to pay for all of that, or are taxes in Arizona that high?
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: Al Sayre on December 01, 2009, 02:11:31 PM
Sheriff Joe confiscates the moneywhen he's rounding up the drug dealers.  Go Joe! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: Flying Pig on December 01, 2009, 02:48:08 PM
Its got nothing to do with Arpaio.  Im not sure how they do it.  But they do it.  I would say though, CA has AZ beat by a 100 miles when it comes to departments with air units.
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: c172drv on December 01, 2009, 03:10:18 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2009, 02:48:08 PM
Its got nothing to do with Arpaio.  Im not sure how they do it.  But they do it.  I would say though, CA has AZ beat by a 100 miles when it comes to departments with air units.

Actually Joe is part of it.  All the police agencies down there get lots of drug seizures and they do use the money to fund their operations.  I think that almost every county there has a helicopter or two and a few fixed wings.  From a practical point they need it since the counties are huge.  One of the counties up north has more territory than a few countries and only has like 20 officers.  I don't recall the taxes as being very high when I lived there.  AZ Wing use to have a lot of activity when I was there.  We picked up some additional activity supporting a few federal agencies with various things.  The Phoenix valley though is pretty hard area to work in with Maricopa County Sheriff's Office having some many resources plus Phoenix PD and Fire have really put together an amazing range of capabilities.

Regards,

John
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: Flying Pig on December 01, 2009, 03:24:34 PM
We are in somewhat of the same boat here where I am.  There are missions all the time in Fresno County, but we never get called to do anything in Fresno.  The Sheriff pretty much has anything SAR related locked up (which I guess is cool for me)  However, since CA is so big, we just go elsewhere to play.

Not to mention, Im pretty sure Maricopa County and Phoenix PD get a lot of Homeland Security money.
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: Airrace on December 01, 2009, 04:47:41 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2009, 05:35:27 AM
Your in the Phoenix area correct?  Phoenix PD is a POWER HOUSE for Air Support, Firefighting and SAR.  For cryin' out loud, those guys are flying AS350's and Agusta 119's and Koala's!!!  Soon they are taking delivery of a PC12 Spectre for transport, surveillance, SAR and whatever else they can use it for.  And it wouldnt surprise me in the least if that thing will have a Becker in it or some means to DF.  They can downlink video, photos, everything else.  CAP can keep SDIS, they are downlinking real time video, color or thermal.  Heck, both if you want it in split screen.  While flying on NVGs. I think Phoenix PD has like....20 pilots? 
The AZ Highway Patrol, again, a top notch air unit.  Flying Bell 407's with full EMS.  Excellent at SAR.  Phoenix PD has air assets that make me want to curl up in the corner and suck my thumb and cry for my mother.  Mesa PD, those guys are stacked as well.  And dont forget Maricopa County Sheriff with their 407's.  Plus, they have a 2-3 fixed wings also.

Sorry, but the only calls you are getting will be the ones they dont want.  And there arent any they dont want.

I hope I didnt sugar coat anything.

Sounds like Ariozona has it's act together.
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: Flying Pig on December 01, 2009, 05:17:45 PM
We have a Senator who ran for Governor when Schwarzenegger did, named Tom McClintoch.  He said the only way to fix California was to take every document and law used by the State of Arizona, go through them and wherever the name Arizona appeared, change it to California.  Obviously, he wasnt being literal, but pretty close. 

I looked at transferring to the AZ Highway Patrol a couple years ago, but didnt feel like going back through a 26 week academy again.  About 500 more helicopter hours and I may look again.
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: coolkites on December 02, 2009, 12:20:23 AM
I feel the same way about never getting missions. It is for the better since that means no aircraft are in down but still sometime I wish we would get the occasional ELT or something.
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: RiverAux on December 02, 2009, 01:27:33 AM
I'm not sure that the premise of this thread is correct.  According to the AFRCC Arizona Wing had 96 missions in 2008 and according to recent CAP annual reports it gets a very high amount of AF-funded flying hours.  Both of these sources put AZ Wing near the top in activity, at least in the past.

Overall SAR in CAP has been down about 25% or so in 2009 so your perception of a decline this year is probably right (according to a briefing at NEC), but other areas have been going up. 
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: FW on December 02, 2009, 01:38:01 AM
^True.  However, with the drastic cuts in CN training/flying budgets and, a significant cut in our other training/flying budgets, this year's figures are most likely going to take a big hit.
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: RADIOMAN015 on December 05, 2009, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: Seabee219 on December 01, 2009, 04:36:59 AM
It seems all my unit does is pratice missions, there is things happening all over the place and no one calls us. We have MOUs to many people but CAP never calls on us to help anyone. Anyone else have any input....
Some (many?) members in CAP are really into the training practice missions and energetically participate in each one.  However, their availability for actual missions might be somewhat limited due to work, family, & school requirements.

Interestingly, I recent was an instructor at a SLS course.  Complaints from those participating were similiar, including that the State Police weren't calling us when we could possibly help.  As I told them my experience (monitoring the state PD radio system) was during a lost person searches (especially at night), the state PD air wing could launch a helicopter immediately (since one of the SP air bases in the state is always manned and ready for response), and utilizing FLIR as well as a high intensity search lights can easily find a missing person (espcially if they made a 911 cellphone call) sometimes as quick as 10 minutes after lanuch.  CAP would be lucky if after 2 hours to even have a team asembled for dispatch :-[

When you add in the CAP limitations on the ownership and use of ATV's & snowmobiles, CAP lacks essential tools for ground team "effective" operations.

Again I think all members participating in training do learn something of value, but the reality of the situation (varying very significiantly by wings & and/or even specific geographic areas within the wing) is it's unlikey they will be called out for at least a ground type mission.  Air missions will also vary greatly.
RM 
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: Rotorhead on December 14, 2009, 11:59:37 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2009, 05:35:27 AM
Your in the Phoenix area correct?  Phoenix PD is a POWER HOUSE for Air Support, Firefighting and SAR.  For cryin' out loud, those guys are flying AS350's and Agusta 119's and Koala's!!!  Soon they are taking delivery of a PC12 Spectre for transport, surveillance, SAR and whatever else they can use it for.  And it wouldnt surprise me in the least if that thing will have a Becker in it or some means to DF.  They can downlink video, photos, everything else.  CAP can keep SDIS, they are downlinking real time video, color or thermal.  Heck, both if you want it in split screen.  While flying on NVGs. I think Phoenix PD has like....20 pilots? 
The AZ Highway Patrol, again, a top notch air unit.  Flying Bell 407's with full EMS.  Excellent at SAR.  Phoenix PD has air assets that make me want to curl up in the corner and suck my thumb and cry for my mother.  Mesa PD, those guys are stacked as well.  And dont forget Maricopa County Sheriff with their 407's.  Plus, they have a 2-3 fixed wings also.

Sorry, but the only calls you are getting will be the ones they dont want.  And there arent any they dont want.

I hope I didnt sugar coat anything.

Excellent analysis, Robert.

Phoenix is a hotbed for SAR/LE aviation.

Heck, even the operators of the EMS birds have accused each other of jumping calls!

A plane goes down, one of them, or until recently, one of the six or so media helicopters, is gonna find it first.

Just the reality of life in a state that's been doing this since the 1960's.


Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: Rotorhead on December 15, 2009, 12:25:30 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on December 01, 2009, 02:48:08 PM
Its got nothing to do with Arpaio.  Im not sure how they do it.  But they do it.  I would say though, CA has AZ beat by a 100 miles when it comes to departments with air units.
Not if you measure per capita (by population).
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: Seabee219 on December 15, 2009, 03:23:58 AM
In places like Phoenix you get a lot of action, where I am from we do not get used at all, the plane sits most the time.  Why can't they ask us to join missions in Phoenix.  All the units in the Phoenix area get the credit as we sit and get looked at like we do nothing. Nice trade off.
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: Flying Pig on December 16, 2009, 03:12:08 PM
^Are you talking about the CAP units in the Phoenix are or LE units?
Title: Re: Missions? what missions
Post by: Fubar on December 16, 2009, 10:50:35 PM
Quote from: Seabee219 on December 15, 2009, 03:23:58 AM
In places like Phoenix you get a lot of action, where I am from we do not get used at all, the plane sits most the time.  Why can't they ask us to join missions in Phoenix.
I'm not sure who "they" is, but if the action is occurring in Phoenix, the CAP leadership probably utilizes the assets closest to the incident. That approach is typically more cost effective and time efficient.

According to the AZWG website, it appears that the Phoenix metro area has 9 squadrons (senior, cadet, and composite) available to respond to incidents. Why would they have a squadron that's over 100 miles away by air and 200 miles by road respond with all those resources nearby?

I certainly understand your frustration with feeling underutilized. I've been in your position and I know I started to feel like all the training and preparation was no longer worth it. I was a member of an organization that over a 10 year span became so marginalized, I left. Fortunately for me, CAP's three missions means that I can focus on other interests within the organization when there just aren't enough ES missions to go around.