CAP Talk

General Discussion => The Lobby => Topic started by: Spike on November 25, 2009, 11:06:20 PM

Title: red propeller
Post by: Spike on November 25, 2009, 11:06:20 PM
Does anyone have a good historical text or paragraph on the red CAP Propeller insignia?  Could anyone inform me on its use in the past and why?   
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: PhoenixRisen on November 25, 2009, 11:17:51 PM
This doesn't contain much info, but this is on NHQ's website:

http://history.nhq.cap.gov/historical_civil_air_patrol_airc.htm
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: Major Carrales on November 26, 2009, 12:04:58 AM
Quote from: Spike on November 25, 2009, 11:06:20 PM
Does anyone have a good historical text or paragraph on the red CAP Propeller insignia?  Could anyone inform me on its use in the past and why?   

It harkens back to the old "CD" civil defense signage of WWII and the early cold war.  It was a RED "CD" centered in a white triangle, over a blue circle.

Here are some "sister" emblems of CAP's WWII heritage...
http://www.legeros.com/essays/cd/images/Image1459.gif
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: James Shaw on November 26, 2009, 12:32:19 AM
Quote from: Major Carrales on November 26, 2009, 12:04:58 AM
Quote from: Spike on November 25, 2009, 11:06:20 PM
Does anyone have a good historical text or paragraph on the red CAP Propeller insignia?  Could anyone inform me on its use in the past and why?   

It harkens back to the old "CD" civil defense signage of WWII and the early cold war.  It was a RED "CD" centered in a white triangle, over a blue circle.

Here are some "sister" emblems of CAP's WWII heritage...
http://www.legeros.com/essays/cd/images/Image1459.gif


It was removed fromn the triangle for the Coastal Patrol Planes. They were concerned with the red being confused with Japanese Aircraft.
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: Eclipse on November 26, 2009, 01:15:24 AM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Civil_defense.svg/180px-Civil_defense.svg.png)
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: ol'fido on November 26, 2009, 01:22:18 AM
Could be revived as the logo for CAP NLO. You know.....

Cease and Desist

Sidebar: Not likin' this new fangled format too much.
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: O-Rex on November 26, 2009, 02:32:20 AM
What to all of you think about the new 'corporate' prop & triangle?

Is it me, or does it look like a move to de-militarize CAP's image??

I don't like it.
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: High Speed Low Drag on November 27, 2009, 01:12:40 AM
Quote from: O-Rex on November 26, 2009, 02:32:20 AM
What to all of you think about the new 'corporate' prop & triangle?

Is it me, or does it look like a move to de-militarize CAP's image??

I don't like it.
What does it look like?
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: RiverAux on November 27, 2009, 01:16:08 AM
Look in the top left corner of the cover of the Volunteer where the "o" should be.
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: Eclipse on November 27, 2009, 03:47:19 AM
(http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/May_July_Volunteer_09_cover_FB3A950657F9D.jpg)
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: AlphaSigOU on November 27, 2009, 03:32:10 PM
Could they be a little less redundant and get rid of the 'Civil Air Patrol' title above the Volunteer logo? It's already in the prop logo.
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: lordmonar on November 27, 2009, 07:08:01 PM
No....

The title of the publication is the "Civil Air Patrol Volunteer"......not the "V (Civil Air Patrol) lunteer".

:)
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: Smithsonia on November 27, 2009, 07:51:56 PM
In case this has been missed. Military unit badges are most often circles. See here:
http://www.priorservice.com/milpat.html


Police/Law Enforcements unit badges are shields (modified Triangles) - CAP is going to more shields and fewer circles. http://www.vanguardmil.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6_390_402_404
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: The CyBorg is destroyed on November 27, 2009, 08:04:23 PM
Quote from: O-Rex on November 26, 2009, 02:32:20 AM
What to all of you think about the new 'corporate' prop & triangle?

Is it me, or does it look like a move to de-militarize CAP's image??

I don't like it.

I'm not particularly fond of it either...but I don't think it's a move to "de-militarise" CAP's image, since we've had the red prop about as long as we've been CAP.

Is the CD insignia even used anymore?  When I was a kid sometimes it was shown on TV during EBS tests.  I even remember seeing a variation of it with an inverted triangle.
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: AlphaSigOU on November 27, 2009, 08:39:03 PM
If I remember correctly, the CD symbol was quietly retired a couple of years ago... let me doublecheck.
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: AlphaSigOU on November 27, 2009, 08:56:43 PM
Here we is... :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_defense - the description of the CD logo points to 'Comprehensive Emergency Management'.
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: PhoenixRisen on November 27, 2009, 11:54:19 PM
Quote from: Smithsonia on November 27, 2009, 07:51:56 PM
In case this has been missed. Military unit badges are most often circles. See here:
http://www.priorservice.com/milpat.html
\

In the case of the Army, I wouldn't necessarly say that.  What I see on that page are images of the actual patches (tons of various sizes) placed on a circular (unofficial) patch, with, say, a branch insignia added.  There are a few actual patches (official) that are round, but I wouldn't say they're mostly circles.

http://www.armydecals.com/uardipa.html

...Just sayin'.  :)
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: PhoenixRisen on November 28, 2009, 05:15:47 AM
This is from the CAP Knowledgebase:

"From the National Museum of the Civil Air Patrol, CAP's insignia illustrated its original connection with Civil Defense. The standard CD insignia (blue circle, white triangle) was modified with symbols for scores of functions... air raid wardens, ground spotters, etc. For CAP, a red propeller appeared inside the triangle.

The first Civil Air Patrol shoulder sleeve insignia, designed by the Office of the Quartermaster General, War Department, was authorized for wear by CAP non-commissioned officers on February 13, 1942.   Evoking the basic Civil Defense emblem of a white triangle inside a 3" blue disk, a unique red three-blade propeller was added to the center of the patch, worn on left sleeve of the Army Air Corps uniform, one-half inch below the shoulder seam. The same patch was also authorized for commissioned officers two months later."
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: Hawk200 on November 28, 2009, 06:07:31 AM
Quote from: Smithsonia on November 27, 2009, 07:51:56 PM
In case this has been missed. Military unit badges are most often circles. See here:
http://www.priorservice.com/milpat.html
The patches listed on that page are novelty patches, and not a single one on that page would be authorized for wear on any uniform in the US military.

Air Force squadron patches are required to be round, and may have up to two half inch tabs (or rockers, if you wish). But this heraldry requirement is specific to the Air Force, not to the military in general.

Army organizational insignia tend to have a common shape for each branch, but I don't know of any that are round. Some morale patches that are unofficially worn on Army flight uniforms are, but not a majority of them.

Most Marine Corps official insignia patches (such as worn on flightsuits) aren't either. Can't say too much about the Navy in general, I've seen very few of their uniforms, but from what I have seen, those weren't round either.

As to Coast Guard, can't say much. Haven't seen any of their uniforms in person that had unit patches.
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: SarDragon on November 28, 2009, 08:13:42 AM
Most Navy squadron patches are round. Ship patches vary. Shore stations and headquarters type commands are primarily triangular. Some older irregular shapes are grandfathered.
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: Hawk200 on November 29, 2009, 08:36:02 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on November 28, 2009, 08:13:42 AM
Most Navy squadron patches are round. Ship patches vary. Shore stations and headquarters type commands are primarily triangular. Some older irregular shapes are grandfathered.

Just out of curiosity, those are primarily worn on flight clothing, aren't they?
Title: Re: red propeller
Post by: SarDragon on November 29, 2009, 09:00:36 PM
That is correct, and on various outerwear having patches authorized. I admit to not having detailed knowledge of the current rules, but there are fewer opportunities to wear patches than WIWOAD.