This is an interesting story....
http://newsminer.com/pages/full_story/push?article-81-year-old+Tasered+by+Eielson+Air+Force+Base+police%20&id=4253637-81-year-old+Tasered+by+Eielson+Air+Force+Base+police&instance=home_news_window
Not good PR for CAP. Noted it says "former" commander. Wonder how the press dug this up about CAP ???
RM
I don't like when they try to make associations that have nothing to do with the incident at hand. "A Former Squadron Commander in the Civil Air Patrol..." It's like saying, "A former volunteer with a soup kitchen."
In this case, it appears as though they were trying to make some sort of association between him and the base that doesn't even exist...
Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 07, 2009, 09:16:02 PM
I don't like when they try to make associations that have nothing to do with the incident at hand. "A Former Squadron Commander in the Civil Air Patrol..." It's like saying, "A former volunteer with a soup kitchen."
In this case, it appears as though they were trying to make some sort of association between him and the base that doesn't even exist...
Mentioning CAP in this article was a ridiculous on the part of the reporter. Trying to sensationalize the issue by attaching the word "commander" to him somehow. In addition, age means nothing. Ive been shot at by a 91yr old man and an 85 yr old man in 2 different incident, had a knife pulled on my by a guy in his 80s and nearly had my butt handed to me in a fist fight at a domestic violence call because I didnt think an 80 yr old, 130lb man posed much of a threat. What I didnt know was that he had been a career boxer in his day and still taught boxing for the youth Police Activities League. People think because someone has aged that they no longer pose a threat. I and I can guarantee EVERY cop knows it looks bad when you lay out a senior citizen.
Two words: DASH CAM. I suspect they've got this guy on video and based on the sergeant's statements they got him nailed to the wall.
Just because you're an elderly priest who used to be in CAP doesn't mean you're not a lowlife.Sounds like this old fart thinks his AARP membership gives him an "I'm old and stupid" discount with everyone, including the cops. There's more of these out there than there should be.
Can we have him tasered again?
Quote from: Flying Pig on November 07, 2009, 10:40:54 PM
People think because someone has aged that they no longer pose a threat.
Reminds me of the line "age and treachery will overcome youth and vigor"
I'll just bet that, if asked, the reporting outlet will say they got the story from NOTF.
Like that's a truly legitimate source anyway, and only they would feel the need to publish anything that would make CAP look bad.
EDIT: Yep, pretty much word-for-word what the NOTF article said yesterday.
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on November 07, 2009, 11:37:58 PM
Two words: DASH CAM.
I wish. In-car video is a rarity in security forces (read: I've never seen one car with one -- I'm sure some of the high-speed, high-budget squadrons have 'em ... but nowhere I've been)
Wow NOTF had the story yeaterday. But if you look the original story was published by the newspaper four days ago.
Quote from: McLarty on November 08, 2009, 01:57:34 AM
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on November 07, 2009, 11:37:58 PM
Two words: DASH CAM.
I wish. In-car video is a rarity in security forces (read: I've never seen one car with one -- I'm sure some of the high-speed, high-budget squadrons have 'em ... but nowhere I've been)
Alaska Hipo's have them and they were on the chase as well.
As a Certified Law Enforcement AIR TASER instructor, I can safely say ( having been shocked in every conceivable fashion with a TASER) that it is far more preferable to the alternatives, which include being beaten into submission with a Baton(s), Tackled by a bunch of big beefy officers ( generally resulting in injuries to ALCON) Spayed with Mace or pepper gas, or shot with a bean bag gun from a shotgun, or a combination of any or all of these things. Using a TASER is less likely to result in injuries to the suspect and the Officers than laying hands on a violently combative suspect. Sure its a little disconcerting for members of the public to hear the screams of the shocked suspect, but the scream is about 80% fear, 10% anger, and 10 % pain. Pulling the darts out is worse then putting them in!
Being elderly, episcopalian or a CAP member does not mean that you are not a serious threat to the safety of the arresting officers. Quit being a ( can't use the word I want here, so please fill it in mentally) and the cops won't have to shock you. Its a pretty simple social contract......
Major Lord
Of course, you have heard.....
That TASER now only approves shots the extremities. No longer are body shots with the TASER authorized per TASER. In my opinion, you can have it now. No way am I going to be able to hit an arm or a leg, and if I hit the torso, even if there are no after effects, the guy can sue me with TASER's permission. TASER will show up to court and testify that I used it improperly and out of compliance with training standards.
So in effect, TASER just wrote their own death certificate in a sense, as I gather many LE's probably have the same outlook on the situation, and will think twice or more before resorting to using the device.
The news media has this incredible urge to introduce everything they can find about the individual along the story, and most of the time it's totally irrelevant.
Obviously the guy is some sort of rebel, he's had his issues before, and as attested here being 81 is not simply a reason to presume the suspect can't do squat to you.
Quote from: a2capt on November 08, 2009, 03:57:07 PM
So in effect, TASER just wrote their own death certificate in a sense, as I gather many LE's probably have the same outlook on the situation, and will think twice or more before resorting to using the device.
The news media has this incredible urge to introduce everything they can find about the individual along the story, and most of the time it's totally irrelevant.
Obviously the guy is some sort of rebel, he's had his issues before, and as attested here being 81 is not simply a reason to presume the suspect can't do squat to you.
It left most of us who use them scratching our heads.
Quote from: Flying Pig on November 07, 2009, 10:40:54 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 07, 2009, 09:16:02 PM
I don't like when they try to make associations that have nothing to do with the incident at hand. "A Former Squadron Commander in the Civil Air Patrol..." It's like saying, "A former volunteer with a soup kitchen."
In this case, it appears as though they were trying to make some sort of association between him and the base that doesn't even exist...
Mentioning CAP in this article was a ridiculous on the part of the reporter...
Agreed, what relavance does it have to the story?! None what so ever.
If a fact is not relevant to a news story, don't include it. This is a pet peave of mine.
Quote from: a2capt on November 08, 2009, 03:57:07 PM
So in effect, TASER just wrote their own death certificate in a sense, as I gather many LE's probably have the same outlook on the situation, and will think twice or more before resorting to using the device.
What it did was remove the TASER manufacturers out of the litigation cycle.
Quote from: Cecil DP on November 09, 2009, 06:03:45 AM
Quote from: a2capt on November 08, 2009, 03:57:07 PM
So in effect, TASER just wrote their own death certificate in a sense, as I gather many LE's probably have the same outlook on the situation, and will think twice or more before resorting to using the device.
What it did was remove the TASER manufacturers out of the litigation cycle.
Yeah, becasue LE agencies will quit using them. trying to hit a dirtbag in the legs with a tazer is no different than shooting him there with your duty weapon.
What will happen is the same thing we do with the baton. You make every effort to make strikes to the thighs and arms. If the suspect bobs and weaves and you smack them in the brain bucket, oh well. Suspect should have weaved instead of bobbed. It wont be the end of the TASER but it makes them look silly.
Quote from: Flying Pig on November 09, 2009, 04:01:22 PM
You make every effort to make strikes to the thighs and arms. If the suspect bobs and weaves and you smack them in the brain bucket, oh well.
:D
I just do not understand how an Airman could not physically get an 81 year old man under control without using the gun.
Also, was this on an Air Force Base??
Quote from: Spike on November 09, 2009, 04:11:47 PM
I just do not understand how an Airman could not physically get an 81 year old man under control without using the gun.
Also, was this on an Air Force Base??
What physical condition is the 81 year old in?
Quote from: Flying Pig on November 07, 2009, 10:40:54 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 07, 2009, 09:16:02 PM
I don't like when they try to make associations that have nothing to do with the incident at hand. "A Former Squadron Commander in the Civil Air Patrol..." It's like saying, "A former volunteer with a soup kitchen."
In this case, it appears as though they were trying to make some sort of association between him and the base that doesn't even exist...
Mentioning CAP in this article was a ridiculous on the part of the reporter. Trying to sensationalize the issue by attaching the word "commander" to him somehow. In addition, age means nothing. Ive been shot at by a 91yr old man and an 85 yr old man in 2 different incident, had a knife pulled on my by a guy in his 80s and nearly had my butt handed to me in a fist fight at a domestic violence call because I didnt think an 80 yr old, 130lb man posed much of a threat. What I didnt know was that he had been a career boxer in his day and still taught boxing for the youth Police Activities League. People think because someone has aged that they no longer pose a threat. I and I can guarantee EVERY cop knows it looks bad when you lay out a senior citizen.
I refer you to my earlier post. This doest include the number of elderly violent Alzheimers patients I have had full on wrestling matches with in nursing homes while the staff looked on not raising a finger to help me. They called the police because they were concerned about liability. Then, when the po-po shows up, then complain that I didnt use my psychic abilities and mind control techniques to get the dude strapped to the gurny for transport the a higher level facility. So I understand fully while a cop may not have been able to subdue an 81 yr old man. Nothing in my job description says I need to walk away injured, nor do I get paid to get hurt.
I don't understand. Is Richardson Highway part of Eielson AFB? Why are the base's security police doing traffic patrol off base?
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on November 09, 2009, 04:12:20 PM
Quote from: Spike on November 09, 2009, 04:11:47 PM
I just do not understand how an Airman could not physically get an 81 year old man under control without using the gun.
Also, was this on an Air Force Base??
What physical condition is the 81 year old in?
You'd be surprised that it really doesn't matter. As Captain/ Officer Steht said, sometimes the elderly dementia patients can give you the worst fights. I've almost at finger's broken, gotten scratched bruised and verbally assaulted by little old ladies who we were taking out as mental aided cases.
"Nurse, give me a hand here and hold her arm down while I restrain it!"
"That aint my job, you're the paramedic. This isn't my floor and my shift just started a minute ago."
"You're namebadge says this is your floor and who the Hell starts work at two thirty seven??!?!"
At NSC we had the school's oldest member (81 years old) pull the sliding door right off one of the CAP minivans.
Old doesn't mean infirm.
Neither does sick, for that matter. I've had plenty an elderly ER patient take a swing at me in a confused state. I've also been on a team for take downs in the ER and those elderly patients become super humans. I've had more than a few bumps and bruises and have learned never, ever underestimate what a properly motivated individual can do.
Quote from: chiles on November 09, 2009, 06:18:17 PM
Neither does sick, for that matter. I've had plenty an elderly ER patient take a swing at me in a confused state. I've also been on a team for take downs in the ER and those elderly patients become super humans. I've had more than a few bumps and bruises and have learned never, ever underestimate what a properly motivated individual can do.
Oh yes, and I had one 10 year old man/monster crush a psych-tech's testicle because he got too close when a group of about 8 medic/nuthouse techs tried to get the lad into restraints. Don't under-estimate anyones capacity for evil and mayhem or you might end up with a new nick name ( i.e. Leftie, Scarface, etc)
Major Lord
Quote from: Spike on November 09, 2009, 04:11:47 PM
I just do not understand how an Airman could not physically get an 81 year old man under control without using the gun.
Also, was this on an Air Force Base??
Let me say from experience that the meanest, roughest, toughest, most dangerous critter in the universe is a hypoxic 90 lbs 90 year old granny who wants out of that ICU bed
NOW! It can make Lord Voldemort quake with fear!
AF Times left out the CAP connection: http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/11/airforce_stun_gun_110809/
I remember being in the ER at a hospital in Detroit about 10 years ago (an experience in itself) and there was an elderly gent there who was going through DT's. I'd say he was in his 70's, but I don't remember, having just got nailed in a car wreck myself.
The police officers attending to him had him cuffed to the bed, and of course there were doctors looking after him.
He went through phases of saying silly, funny things to the officers, trying to get them to uncuff him, and then phases of spouting profanity and threatening anyone within sight.
I am glad the officers didn't uncuff him. I have no doubt that, despite his age, he could have done some damage.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 10, 2009, 03:04:34 AM
AF Times left out the CAP connection: http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/11/airforce_stun_gun_110809/
Good.
We just had two LE departments take their tazers out of service. What Tazer Intl is saying officially is that SOME studies have shown that the darts, when fired into certain center of mass locations or in the vacinity of an onboard defibrilator may cause "rhythm incompatible with life." So basically they got some yahoo that decided that if the current passed across the heart as it does with a AED that it might send the recipient of the little gift to go into v-tach or v-fib. Not all that likely. Ive been tazed twice in EMS/disaster response training courses and it hurts like heck but i felt nothing in my chest. Of course there is a reason why CAP wouldnt let me wear USAF uni if I joined and I did get zapped in the ol' spare tire.
Quote from: flyerthom on November 09, 2009, 09:05:58 PM
Quote from: Spike on November 09, 2009, 04:11:47 PM
I just do not understand how an Airman could not physically get an 81 year old man under control without using the gun.
Also, was this on an Air Force Base??
Let me say from experience that the meanest, roughest, toughest, most dangerous critter in the universe is a hypoxic 90 lbs 90 year old granny who wants out of that ICU bed NOW! It can make Lord Voldemort quake with fear!
AMEN. I had an 87 y/o woman with a basilar skull fracture clock me in the jaw and put me on the trauma bay floor. NEVER underestimate old, scared and in pain.