If a member decided on their own to do professional Development Track and with out being assigned the track , would their completion dates for the tasks count , if the tasks were completed before being assigned the track? what does the the Assigned PDO do when this happens and , they themselves are trying to get their rating. The assigned (main & not Asst.) get preference over the other?
So much for the Spell check that they want us to use. It does not work from here. Sorry if there are typos
Its completely the subjective call of the Commander, who can then put in any date he wants as to completion.
Please clarify - is the member doing a custom personalized specialty track or working in one without being assigned to the staff position?
Since it is possible to do some tasks in other tracks, completions generally count, even if done before the member was enrolled in the appropriate track. For example, completing a CAPF 24 - Senior Member Professional Development Award form is a PDO task, but it is entirely possible for member serving as Personnel or Admin officer to complete one, if there was no PDO assign in the unit. If the same member is later assigned as PDO, the task has been completed, but there should be no shortage of opportunities to demonstrate the task again.
The approver for technician ratings is the unit commander. If the unit commander feels the member meets the requirements for the rating, it can be awarded.
How does the assigned PDO do their job if someone else is trying do do their job and trying for the same rating. Sounds like some toes are going to get stepped on. Should boundaries be established? Just wondering
Quote from: arajca on October 03, 2009, 06:18:20 AM
Please clarify - is the member doing a custom personalized specialty track or working in one without being assigned to the staff position?
Since it is possible to do some tasks in other tracks, completions generally count, even if done before the member was enrolled in the appropriate track. For example, completing a CAPF 24 - Senior Member Professional Development Award form is a PDO task, but it is entirely possible for member serving as Personnel or Admin officer to complete one, if there was no PDO assign in the unit. If the same member is later assigned as PDO, the task has been completed, but there should be no shortage of opportunities to demonstrate the task again.
The approver for technician ratings is the unit commander. If the unit commander feels the member meets the requirements for the rating, it can be awarded.
the only thing they have done prior is TCO.
Quote from: arajca on October 03, 2009, 06:18:20 AM
Please clarify - is the member doing a custom personalized specialty track or working in one without being assigned to the staff position?
Since it is possible to do some tasks in other tracks, completions generally count, even if done before the member was enrolled in the appropriate track. For example, completing a CAPF 24 - Senior Member Professional Development Award form is a PDO task, but it is entirely possible for member serving as Personnel or Admin officer to complete one, if there was no PDO assign in the unit. If the same member is later assigned as PDO, the task has been completed, but there should be no shortage of opportunities to demonstrate the task again.
The approver for technician ratings is the unit commander. If the unit commander feels the member meets the requirements for the rating, it can be awarded.
they are doing a specialty track with out being assigned. If this is allowed, how do you keep the peace with the current Squadron PDO. They are trying to accomplish the same rating.
A member can choose to train in any track, regardless of his assigned duty. But hopefully he is also training in his assigned job also. As for keeping peace with the current PDO, have him run everything through him and give him the additional duty of assistant PDO.
Quote from: Cecil DP on October 03, 2009, 07:03:49 AM
A member can choose to train in any track, regardless of his assigned duty. But hopefully he is also training in his assigned job also. As for keeping peace with the current PDO, have him run everything through him and give him the additional duty of assistant PDO.
How do you do this with two of them doing it at the same time? For example, PDo is required to put together a Libary of material listed , why should the second person benifit from the first person's work? What would a assitant pdo do?
In many cases, demonstrating the ability to do a task is sufficient to sign off completion. The PDO gives the trainee some materials, and then observes accomplishment of the tasks.
For the CAPF 24, it can be done in an assistant capacity. Once the assigned PDO has done his/her first successful CAPF 24, there shouldn't be an issue with someone else doing on to complete a qualification. We're all part of the same team, aren't we?
Let me get this straight-
Member X is trying to obtain a rating as PDO without being assigned to the position, right?
Assuming the current PDO is performing their duties satisfactorily, why is member X trying to the PDO job?
Questions-
Is the commander good with member X's actions?
Has the PDO discussed this with member X and the commander?
Has member X been offered a position as asst PDO?
Until member X serves as PDO for six months, member X CANNOT receive the PDO technician rating. Reference CAPP 204.
Quote from: arajca on October 03, 2009, 03:27:22 PM
Until member X serves as PDO for six months, member X CANNOT receive the PDO technician rating. Reference CAPP 204.
What constitutes service as a PDO is the subjective call of the commander. Assuming the person is either
helping the PDO of record, or performing duties which the CC feels are equivalent, there's no reason
several people can't be pursuing a given rating in their unit.
Quote from: Eclipse on October 03, 2009, 03:58:04 PM
Quote from: arajca on October 03, 2009, 03:27:22 PM
Until member X serves as PDO for six months, member X CANNOT receive the PDO technician rating. Reference CAPP 204.
What constitutes service as a PDO is the subjective call of the commander. Assuming the person is either
helping the PDO of record, or performing duties which the CC feels are equivalent, there's no reason
several people can't be pursuing a given rating in their unit.
I was hoping to avoid it, but here goes:
Quote from: CAPP 204Six months experience as a senior program officer.
Not 'equivalent'. Not 'helping'. Member X either is or is not.
And whether he "is" or "is not" is a subjective call of his commander.
Nowhere in there does it say you must be posted as a staff officer of record. Note use of the word "a" not "the".
Further, why are you quoting the SPO pamphlet in regards to a question on PDO?
Sorry Eclipse, but you can't have a more straightforward requirement than that. 100% clear that you must be THE senior program officer to get experience AS a senior program officer. The intent is clear and the language is clear.
Quote from: Eclipse on October 03, 2009, 04:42:23 PM
Further, why are you quoting the SPO pamphlet in regards to a question on PDO?
The PDO was called the Senior Program Officer until recently (last 4-5 years). The pamphlete has not been update to reflect the name change.
When a member WANTS to undertake extra training (assuming the person is not creating friction in the unit), why not assign that member as assistant to the officer concerned? Even if it's "in addition to other duties", which take priority.
Let's not discourage cross-training!
The purpose of speciality tracks is to train people how to accomplish associated duty assignment. They are not merit badges and for a Commander to give a person who is not assigned the duty position credit for doing the job, then the Commander is simply telling the person assigned the duty position that their efforts don't count for much.
I am in two speciality tracks I have accomplish the majority of tasks for but I have not progressed past "None" since I have not been assigned a duty position in the tracks. The intent in the speciality track pampletes is clear - even if some of them are poorly worded.
Quote from: RiverAux on October 03, 2009, 05:23:27 PM
Sorry Eclipse, but you can't have a more straightforward requirement than that. 100% clear that you must be THE senior program officer to get experience AS a senior program officer. The intent is clear and the language is clear.
You might want to actually
read the pamphlet. Its neither, nor is the practice.
If you start limiting specialty tracks to only those posted as the "of record" for a respective position, no would ever get anywhere.
And again, since this is a subjective situation, commanders are free to interpret this how they see fit. Feel that a it requires actual staff posting? Fine, run your unit that way. That's how it works. If someone upstream disagrees, you'll know.
Some of the senior training pamphlets specifically allow experience to be gained as the primary officer or assistant (ES for example). Others are more vague and require an "internship", which could mean just about anything (Historian, for example).
This is one of those that apparently require you to be the primary officer. Another example of this can be found in the AEO specialty track.
It would be nice if CAP were consistent in how they did these things, but they aren't and we have to go with what the letter of the pamphlet says.
Quote from: RiverAux on October 03, 2009, 11:34:25 PM
It would be nice if CAP were consistent in how they did these things, but they aren't and we have to go with what the letter of the pamphlet says.
And if we do, your interpretation is incorrect.
You can't change text and case just to make your argument.
I'm not the one claiming that the text doesn't say what it says.