CAP Talk

General Discussion => Membership => Topic started by: Dutchboy on September 05, 2009, 03:11:06 AM

Title: Documentation
Post by: Dutchboy on September 05, 2009, 03:11:06 AM
A member has completed Level 1, earned their Yeager and 2-year service ribbons. To keep things in order, what needs to be completed to have the proper documentation to wear the associated ribbons?


Also according to e-services, they have been credited for recruiting for members on e-services, but are missing two of them.  What needs to be done to correct this?
Title: Re: Documentation
Post by: Eclipse on September 05, 2009, 03:35:49 AM
I guess that depends on your interpretation and the level of administrivia that you are interested in.

You can make the argument that anything worn on the uniform should have a corresponding 2a, if you're in that camp, so be it.

I contend that many decorations, especially those tied to online tests, PD levels, ES Quals, and similar, are "self-actualizing" and don't require separate paper.

As an example - if you complete Level IV, you're presented the Garber Award.  Its silly to expect an additional 2a to accompany the CAPF 24 that had to be submitted, and the Garber cert on your wall.

Likewise the Yeager, Encampments, or anything else that's tracked online - once its posted, someone has already approved the respective bling.  The Red Service ribbon?  A little grayer, but its still self-actualizing.  Either they've been in 2 years or they haven't.  Its always nice to have them awarded, though, by the CC.

YMMV and I certainly would not argue with a unit CC of mine who wanted "more", however I would never require that of anyone downstream.

As some backup for my opinion, this came up in my recent SUI, with the inspectors arguing that hardcopy 2's and 2a's were still required in the member's folders even for things approved fully online.  I respectfully disagreed, and we all agreed that the systems have outpaced the regs.

I submitted a question to the KB, and Ms. Parker was referenced as the SME.  Her response was "No, you do not need a redundant form for something done online, and the regulations are being updated to get them in line with the systems..."

As to records corrections, generally all you have to do is send a memo with the correction and the substantiation to the forms email address and they will correct it quickly.  If its something unusual, you should have an upstream CC look at it to save the time of them questioning it.
Title: Re: Documentation
Post by: Dutchboy on September 05, 2009, 04:13:33 AM
So to be sure, it it has a online record on e-services, ther is no need to create the paperwork? and send a copy of the file copy (membership applications )to get the proper credit for recruiting the member?
Title: Re: Documentation
Post by: Eclipse on September 05, 2009, 04:17:09 AM
That's my take.
Title: Re: Documentation
Post by: IceNine on September 05, 2009, 04:25:22 AM
Concur.

My rule of thumb is that if there is paperwork that is already being processed then keep a copy.

Example Form 24's for level completion, etc.

If there is no paperwork already, there is no need for paperwork.

The way I "passed" this on my SUI was anything that was self-actualizing by e-services was documented by a printed copy of the member record from e-services.

Title: Re: Documentation
Post by: Capt Rivera on September 05, 2009, 12:11:50 PM
I was wondering this myself.
- Thanks
Title: Re: Documentation
Post by: Pylon on September 05, 2009, 04:16:15 PM
For paper-trail purposes, I've printed out a copy of members' E-services training page which shows a lot of those "automatic" ribbons (encampment, level completion, etc.) and placed it in their personnel file jacket. 
Title: Re: Documentation
Post by: Eclipse on September 05, 2009, 05:34:02 PM
^ Certainly not a bad idea - that or the master record report from SIMS.
Title: Re: Documentation
Post by: SarDragon on September 06, 2009, 08:01:35 AM
I generally do a 2a or PA for the red service ribbon, because some folks do not have continuous service, like me, and the actual time served can be accurately documented.

YMMV.