Why use a surefire? I have heard that surefires are extremely tough and very bright but they take specialty batterys and have a relatively low battery life on many 60 minutes on the low setting! that to me is unacceptable. I want peoples opinions on why I should or should not buy a surefire. Please no arguments just ed educted disscussion also only talk about a product if you have used it thanks ;D
There are people who's lives depend on a flashlight working every time, and they may well be using gov'mint money to buy those products. No problem.
The average CAP user does not fall into that category by a long shot and the $3.00 9-LED Ace / Home Depot special is more than enough. Yes, bright LEDs in that price range will have a relatively short life - but they don't go "poof", they tend to fade, and "short" is a relative term the way most CAP members would use them (i.e. a few hours a year, then sitting in a bag).
For those with common sense and a few more buckos to spent, there's a LOT of choice between the the hardware store cheapie and the Surefire.
I'd have to give a positive vote on the 9 LED specials. I've got several of them all over the place. Couple in the car, couple at home, one in CAP bag, two in my Army aircrew bag(one in the vest). They're cheap enough to have several, and they're pretty bright for the size. You can spend the money you save on other gear. Or Ziploc bags to keep stuff waterproof. ;D
Quote from: Hawk200 on August 20, 2009, 08:15:00 PM
I'd have to give a positive vote on the 9 LED specials. I've got several of them all over the place. Couple in the car, couple at home, one in CAP bag, two in my Army aircrew bag(one in the vest). They're cheap enough to have several, and they're pretty bright for the size. You can spend the money you save on other gear. Or Ziploc bags to keep stuff waterproof. ;D
Ditto, I've got a bunch laying around that I got for $2 at the auto parts store. They're small, fairly bright, and cheap enough that I won't be upset if I lose a few.
They get a fair amount of use too, and I haven't broken one yet...
You know.....if you got $40 to blow on ES gear....I can think of 3-4 other things to buy instead of a flash light.
I carry a AA Military standard "bendo", a cheap AA mag light and a moderatly expensive ($20) AA head lamp.
I get more then enough life out of the batteries and they are plenty of bright enough. I am not going to be kicking in doors or looking for bad guys so I don't need a light that will rival the a small supernova.
Why not a Surefire? $5 for 2 batteries, that's why.
Why a Surfire? Because they're bright, sturdy and reliable. However I'd go with an LED.
All this, of course, if you can afford a minimum of $36 for a Surefire (non-LED).
Princeton Tec also has some great flashlights. I have a couple.
The surefires basic G2 non LED uses 2 batteries every 60 minutes and at $4 for 2 batteries (assuming you dont buy in bulk) thats very very spendy. The surefire I was considering was the G2 LED which gets 12 hours off of 2 batteries although it starts at 65 dollars YIKES! :o
Ive been in law enforcement 12 yrs and Ive never used a Sure Fire. Over priced. Your paying for the name. Yeah, they are REALLY REALLY bright, but...OK.
You could by 5 good lights for the price of one Sure Fire. I use a Stream Light. Pretty good, but still pricey.
I've always been happy with the Mini Mags (2AA batteries) with LED bulbs. Two big reasons they are better than Surefire or any other pricey flashlight.
1) They are cheap, if I lose one in the field it isn't the end of the world, just another trip to Wal-Mart and another $15.
2) They run off of a common battery, you can find AA's anywhere and they are small and light enough that I can carry several extras. Not that I have to, the Mini Mags don't eat batteries like the uber-bright flashlights do.
I've retro-fitted a couple of mini-mags with an LED and tail cap witch and they were terrible - the lens and reflector don't shape the light correctly because they were designed for a pea-bulb.
I haven't test-driven a factory LED mini-mag.
This gent: http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/
Is a little "obsessed", but if you want to know about anything LED, that's the place.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 21, 2009, 05:54:52 PM
This gent: http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/
Is a little "obsessed", but if you want to know about anything LED, that's the place.
That's an interesting site thank you, candlepower forums are another great place to read up on flashlights.
My light is apparently not made anymore but this one (http://www.powertechinc.com/galaxy/13led.shtml) is very similar. I love it because it uses AAAs is very bright and has one switch for white and a separate switch that triggers red or blue light. It was $30 at walmart. I love it.
I've picked up a couple diffferent flashlights like these:
http://www.coastportland.com/displayMasterCategories.php?catid=5
Coastal makes a nice product, they use regular batteries, and they're available at such specialty places as Lowes and KMart! :)
(The V2 Dual Color "Lenser" is one I picked up last year. Love it!!)
QuoteWhy?
People like owning a heavily advertised brand because it makes them feel like A Superior Person. For the same reason, these people also willingly pay extra for clothes that ostentatiously advertise the manufacturer's brand.
QuoteWhy not?
As others have pointed out, there are now lots of good choices in the marketplace at reasonable prices. For example, two I have are:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=176484 (I paid less than $20 on sale.)
http://edcforums.com/index.php?topic=24963.0 (About $12 on sale, IIRC.)
Surefire makes a great product, and feeding it batteries and bulbs costs a lot. The Surefire is the choice of tactical Ninjas, who rely on it for use as what the owner of Surefire calls a "Light Weapon", something there is arguably little use for in CAP. SAR people tend to like tools and gear developed for our trigger-pulling big brothers. Heck, if its good for (Insert [censored]in' agency name here") surely it must be good enough for SAR teams? Tactical people strive for robust, silent and invisible gear, something that may be at odds with our operational requirements. I can buy a heck of a lot of bright orange Pelican submersible lights for what I will pay for a Surefire, batteries and bulbs, and although they may not be ideal for beating a drug-crazed, neer-do-well into submission, or blinding them long enough to double tap, they are just about perfect (in my opinion) for the SAR job. Surefires are cool flashlights, but they don't float, they are impossible to find on the ground if dropped, and you will have your mind on recovering your lost 80.00 flashlight instead of focusing on the mission at hand. If you don't mind the cost, buy one! This is America, and by God, there is no such thing as too many flashlights! But remember that gear is a disposable part of our mission, not the mission.
Major Lord
I'll add my 2 cents as well, since I own about 15 Surefire lights at present...
Surefire represents an Investment in a flashlight. I have two categories of gear: Gear I Use, and Gear I ABUSE. The Gear I use, like Surefire flashlights and Oakley sunglasses, I choose based on performance characteristics, and my ability to afford them! I NEVER lose gear from this category, except by Theft or Act of God. I just don't misplace these items, since I treat them as Non-Expendable. Gear I ABUSE, like $3 Safety Glasses and LightSticks, I treat any way I want and I treat them as completely Expendable.
If you are willing to make the commitment necessary to NEVER lose your good gear, then Surefire (and Oakley, and Leatherman, and Spyderco, and etc.) is a great choice, especially with the newer LED models/bulbs. The batteries are still the somewhat esoteric 123 Lithiums, but at least you don't need to carry 20 spare batteries with you!
If you are NOT willing to make that commitment, then there are numerous lower-priced, and slightly lower-performing, brands to choose from. Princeton-Tec, Streamlight, Fenix, Petzl, on and on. I own dozens of these lights, but I USUALLY choose a Surefire light for most uses.
Note that when I say lower-performing, I mean in an overall sense. Unlike in past years, you can now buy less expensive lights which equal the light output and runtime of Surefire lights. Surefire is no longer the only name in BRIGHT flashlights. BUT, you really won't find lights with the same output, same runtime, and same Reliability and Durability as Surefire. Surefire pretty much owns 'Bright AND Rugged.'
There are definitely niches where others take the lead from Surefire, though. In particular, Headlamps are the domain of Petzl and Princeton-Tec.
As a note, I have NEVER broken a Surefire light, and I still have my original 6R, now converted (it's a 2 piece body) to a 6P LED. This light is over 15 years old, and works just as well (better, really, with the LED...) as the day I bought it. That is the value in a Surefire. Oh, I can also still buy accessories and parts that fit it, after 15 years. Not too many other lights that can make that claim, besides Maglite.
In summary, Surefire is the answer if you are comfortable keeping track of a ~$50-150 Flashlight. It will last for many years, and may even be upgradable at some point down the road. But they are not cheap, so make that decision as you will.
FYI, they also now make Fluorescent colored LED models with multiple output settings for SAR/First Responder use. Like this:
http://www.surefire.com/G2D-FYL (http://www.surefire.com/G2D-FYL)
Thom Hamilton
I wouldn't buy the expensive stuff, just because I don't think it's worth it for me. When we do GT training for cadets, I show them the differences in the cost of lights, and help them put together gear that's effective for a reasonable price.
That being said, I see a lot on the subject of losing them. There's really a simple solution. Tether it to something. Your vest (if you wear one), to the pack strap, even to the pouch it's in. It's a cheap way to keep from losing it.
Tie the tether to the flashlight, and use something like one of those clips for the end that's on you. If someone needs to borrow it, show them how to loop the tether through something, and clip it back to the tether.
If that sounds "dorky", then think of it this way: A lot of the trigger pullers, "tacti-cool" types, and military aircrews hang on to them this way.
Quote from: Hawk200 on August 23, 2009, 08:47:58 PM
That being said, I see a lot on the subject of losing them. There's really a simple solution. Tether it to something. Your vest (if you wear one), to the pack strap, even to the pouch it's in. It's a cheap way to keep from losing it.
Tie the tether to the flashlight, and use something like one of those clips for the end that's on you. If someone needs to borrow it, show them how to loop the tether through something, and clip it back to the tether.
If that sounds "dorky", then think of it this way: A lot of the trigger pullers, "tacti-cool" types, and military aircrews hang on to them this way.
I agree completely. In fact, I should have pointed out in my post above that when I say I NEVER lose my flashlights, a large part of that is because it is hard to lose something that IS TIED TO YOU!
Note, also, that these Tethers/Lanyards are just as important on a Cheap Flashlight as on an Expensive Flashlight. If you lose either one, You've just Lost Your Flashlight! This can be a serious problem depending on your current circumstances. The cheap vs. expensive part only comes into play when you buy a replacement the following week.
This is why I also like to always have at least a small button-cell LED flashlight on a breakaway-lanyard. I can wear that light around my neck 24/7 on missions, having a light instantly available with minimal fumbling around to use to find the larger one I just dropped!
And, yes, the GT equipment list says you should have a spare flashlight. Where does everyone carry that? Buried in their pack/pouches/bag. Not fun to dig that light out in the PITCH DARK in the middle of the woods at night after dropping your primary flashlight.
Lanyards are cool, they are even Tacti-Cool, as Hawk200 noted above they are now widely used by 'Real Deal' folks on a daily basis.
You can also get small Carabiner Clips and such to help you hold onto things like pocket knives and multi-tools.
Thom Hamilton
I own two SureFire flashlights, both of which I got for my use in the Security field. The first was a G2 Nitrolon, the "entry level" model for SureFire. Same solid lamp, 2 battery setup, but there's a flaw in the tail cap and on more than one occasion, I've been left with dead batteries and a melted holster due to the light coming on while I'm moving.
My 2nd SureFire is the C2 Centurion, which orignially had a clip on it, which I had machined off because it was, well, kinda in the way, and not going to last forever as it was. The C2 comes with a lanyard, which is nice but obviously something you can put on any SureFire, and it also has the lockout tailcap, which prevents you from accidently having the sucker turn on when you don't want it. Retail price, $100 bucks.
As Thom said, it's an investment. I don't plan on losing it any time soon.
And for those who complain about batteries, you can buy them in bulk from SureFire for super cheap, or you can invest in the rechargable battery option.
Quote from: BrandonKea on August 24, 2009, 12:10:44 AMAnd for those who complain about batteries, you can buy them in bulk from SureFire for super cheap, or you can invest in the rechargable battery option.
They're not really all that rare or expensive. I've seen them at Ingles, Walmart and BILO for reasonable prices. Look for camera batteries, they're probably there.
I think the Surefire is over priced and perfer the Mag light.
Quote from: BrandonKea on August 24, 2009, 12:10:44 AM
And for those who complain about batteries, you can buy them in bulk from SureFire for super cheap, or you can invest in the rechargable battery option.
I would hardly call $2.33 (lowest available price w/ shipping) "super cheap" compared to under than $.40 cents for Energizer AAA's.
More concerning would be the availability of said battery in a disaster or "shared gear" situation. Ditto for rechargeable, as to be of any real emergency value you have to have at least two sets, and they have to last at least as long as the charging duration in continuous use.
Today's Woot is timely to this discussion:
http://www.woot.com/Blog/ViewEntry.aspx?Id=9040
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/wootsaleimages/Dorcy_5mm_NICHIA_LED_FlashlightvaxThumbnail.jpg)
Dorcy 3-pack LED flashlight in random colors - $ 3.99 (+ $5 shipping)
I make no endorsement of this based on use, but as someone who used to work in the opto-electronics industry, I can tell you that Nichia makes some of the best LEDs.
Purports 5 hour battery life on a single AAA.
I hate to continue to post links to my site, but I just so happen to have some links that relate to this topic. I hope its helpful
http://www.halbrookassociates.com/halbrook_associatescom/2008/04/nebo-csi-flashl.html
http://www.halbrookassociates.com/halbrook_associatescom/2008/06/sure-fire-flash.html
(http://isuhawkeye.typepad.com/halbrook_associatescom/images/2008/06/16/photo_061308_007.jpg)
(http://isuhawkeye.typepad.com/halbrook_associatescom/images/2008/04/18/imagewrap.jpg)
If you're looking for a quality flashlight at a good price, check out Fenix. I just picked one of these up myself. They are very well priced for their power and are built like tanks. In their entire product line, only one of their flashlights costs over $100 and I would take one over a Surefire any day. As for the brightness, file them under the category of "OH JESUS MY EYES!".
https://www.fenix-store.com/index.php?cPath=22
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on August 25, 2009, 11:29:03 AM
If you're looking for a quality flashlight at a good price, check out Fenix. I just picked one of these up myself. They are very well priced for their power and are built like tanks. In their entire product line, only one of their flashlights costs over $100 and I would take one over a Surefire any day. As for the brightness, file them under the category of "OH JESUS MY EYES!".
https://www.fenix-store.com/index.php?cPath=22 (https://www.fenix-store.com/index.php?cPath=22)
very nice, As far as portable searchlights what type do you (the Captalk public) use?/do you use one at all?
(searchlight meaning huge 10 million candlepower+)