what is it?
and can I do it online?
Yes you can. Go to the website and pee on your computer. Sorry for the silly answer, I couldn't stop myself.
oh is it a urine test?
it is for Senior Members who want totake part in Counter Drug Missions. You unfortunately do not qualify.
!@#$% Smith! you got there first!
Its a senior-only thing related to counter drug aircrew operations.
Aircrew only or are there ground support roles? CUL, MRO, MSA, etc. There might be plenty of interested folks, like me, who aren't aircrew, but wouldn't mind helping CD missions.
I have no desire to visit any more meth labs or pot grows but am perfectly willing to be a REMF.
I have learned regardless if you have a security clearance you still have to go through another check to get approved for counter-drug ops in CAP. The process can take several months.
Quote from: wuzafuzz on August 15, 2009, 01:09:51 PM
Aircrew only or are there ground support roles? CUL, MRO, MSA, etc. There might be plenty of interested folks, like me, who aren't aircrew, but wouldn't mind helping CD missions.
I have no desire to visit any more meth labs or pot grows but am perfectly willing to be a REMF.
Aircrew only
For Senior Members 18 or older, with at least 2 yrs in CAP. Clients requirement, not CAP's, however time spent as a cadet can be used to meet the requirement. And you must be an aircrew member. Mission Pilot or Mission Observer. You can be a Scanner to apply, but they arent used much. On missions, the Observer and Scanner seats are usually occupied by LE officers.
As far as having a security clearance, a Counter Drug screening is not a security clearance. It is a Law Enforcement screening. Just because you have a security clearance does not mean the law enforcement agency will clear you. Additionally, your CAP chain of command to include the Wing Commander must approve your application as well. I know people who have applied to law enforcement to become officers who have had security clearances in the military but don't pass law enforcement hiring backgrounds. Although the CD screening is nothing remotely close to a hiring packet. With the CD Program, if you are not approved, it is final. There is no appeals process.
I have talked to many cadets about this who have asked. However, there is no place and no time in CD for Cadet Programs.
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 15, 2009, 03:44:58 PM
For Senior Members 18 or older, with at least 2 yrs in CAP. Clients requirement, not CAP's, however time spent as a cadet can be used to meet the requirement. And you must be an aircrew member. Mission Pilot or Mission Observer. You can be a Scanner to apply, but they arent used much. On missions, the Observer and Scanner seats are usually occupied by LE officers.
As far as having a security clearance, a Counter Drug screening is not a security clearance. It is a Law Enforcement screening. Just because you have a security clearance does not mean the law enforcement agency will clear you. Additionally, your CAP chain of command to include the Wing Commander must approve your application as well. I know people who have applied to law enforcement to become officers who have had security clearances in the military but don't pass law enforcement hiring backgrounds. Although the CD screening is nothing remotely close to a hiring packet. With the CD Program, if you are not approved, it is final. There is no appeals process.
I have talked to many cadets about this who have asked. However, there is no place and no time in CD for Cadet Programs.
CD is 21+. CAPR 60-6, 2-2a(2)
And CD missions are not run like SAR missions. We don't have mission bases and IC's and AOBDs and MROs and everything else. Just a CMD who coordinates the schedule, and usually the customers. Even the flight releases are usually done by normal FROs.
In some states. Most of ours are ran with a IC, AOBD, and a MRO. All ICs in the state are also designated as a CMD. IMHO, I think the only requirement is for a CMD and a aircrew but my "IMHO" counts for little ...
There are two things that make me believe only a CMD is required: (1) All missions are flown on a FAA flight plane, and (2) only aircrew sorties count toward the Counterdrug ribbon. Since we were using a lot of mission base people, I thought maybe the mission base time would count the same as it does for the Air Search and Rescue ribbon (8 hours equals one sortie). I asked National and they confirmed only air sorties counted. IMHO, no provision for mission base personnel indicates none are required.
Quote from: Short Field on August 16, 2009, 03:53:16 AM
In some states. Most of ours are ran with a IC, AOBD, and a MRO. All ICs in the state are also designated as a CMD. IMHO, I think the only requirement is for a CMD and a aircrew but my "IMHO" counts for little ...
There are two things that make me believe only a CMD is required: (1) All missions are flown on a FAA flight plane, and (2) only aircrew sorties count toward the Counterdrug ribbon. Since we were using a lot of mission base people, I thought maybe the mission base time would count the same as it does for the Air Search and Rescue ribbon (8 hours equals one sortie). I asked National and they confirmed only air sorties counted. IMHO, no provision for mission base personnel indicates none are required.
Hm. Didn't know that, but now I do :)
I'll dig through 60-6 some more, but I believe you're right, only a CMD is required. No need for the base to keep tabs on the plane because all legs of the flight need to be on an active FAA flight plan, even under the 50nm rule.
I'm sure Lt Col Reed from CAWG can shed some more light on the inner workings of the CD mission, although we all know CD is very (http://images.afmo.com/products/milspecmonkey/small/SecretSquirrel-2T.jpg)
CMD= Counterdrug Mission DIRECTOR.
There are occassions where it makes sense to have the CMD and a minimal staff on scene and there probably should be some provisions for this in the CD regulation.
Quote from: SJFedor on August 16, 2009, 11:31:21 AM
Quote from: Short Field on August 16, 2009, 03:53:16 AM
In some states. Most of ours are ran with a IC, AOBD, and a MRO. All ICs in the state are also designated as a CMD. IMHO, I think the only requirement is for a CMD and a aircrew but my "IMHO" counts for little ...
There are two things that make me believe only a CMD is required: (1) All missions are flown on a FAA flight plane, and (2) only aircrew sorties count toward the Counterdrug ribbon. Since we were using a lot of mission base people, I thought maybe the mission base time would count the same as it does for the Air Search and Rescue ribbon (8 hours equals one sortie). I asked National and they confirmed only air sorties counted. IMHO, no provision for mission base personnel indicates none are required.
Hm. Didn't know that, but now I do :)
I'll dig through 60-6 some more, but I believe you're right, only a CMD is required. No need for the base to keep tabs on the plane because all legs of the flight need to be on an active FAA flight plan, even under the 50nm rule.
I'm sure Lt Col Reed from CAWG can shed some more light on the inner workings of the CD mission, although we all know CD is very (http://images.afmo.com/products/milspecmonkey/small/SecretSquirrel-2T.jpg)
I'm so getting on of the Secret Squirrel patches!
After reveiwing CAPR 60-6, it is clear that mission base personnel can be used and be CD qualified. The main requirement is to have a ES qualification that is used in supporting a CD mission. Nothing in the reg resticts screening to MPs, MOs, and MSs. The reg states that most CD missions can be supervised by the CMD from home on a telephone but that a mission base can be activated if needed due to operational requirements. It is still clear that if you don't fly a mission, you don't get a sortie credit for the Counterdrug ribbon.
First: where can I get one of those Secret Squirrel patches?
Second, in CAWG, we use what we call Mission Managers to run CD missions. Same qualifications as what 60-6 calls a CMD, just that we call them by a slightly different name. In the 15 years that I have been in the CD program, I have never seen CAWG use an IC, AOBD or a MRO on a CD mission. We do have one mission where we use three aircraft for three days each weekend. For that one, we have a MM and one person to assist and do radio and telephone stuff. The assistant is also an aircrew person, just not flying that weekend. On this mission, we do use scanners or observers.
Most of the rest of our CD missions are one aircraft, with one pilot and one MM(who normally operates from home). We rarely use an observer or scanner, our right seat normally being occupied by an LE officer. We do not use FAA flight plans except when transiting from home base to the mission site. We have other ways of keeping track of our aircraft and, in this state, we operate at altitudes where there is often no radar coverage.
60-6 does "suggest" or "recommend" that all MMs(CMD) be ICs. For whatever it is worth, CAWG finds that a lot of the MMs have no desire to be ICs and a significant number of ICs are not screened for CD.
Hope that this helps clear up some of the issues raised so far. How did we get here when the original post was about putting cadets into the CD program?
Quote from: bosshawk on August 16, 2009, 05:43:39 PM
We do not use FAA flight plans except when transiting from home base to the mission site.
Does CAWG have a wavier or approved suppliment for CAPR 60-6 para 3-10(a)?
CAPR 60-6 3-10. Operational Requirements and Restrictions.
The following restrictions will be adhered to by aircrews when
flying counterdrug missions:
a. The
PIC must file and activate an FAA flight plan for all
counterdrug missions.
I dont understand how you would even file a flight plan. Your flight plan is with your mission manager. Often you dont have a "destination" you are just going out and trolling hills and valleys.
That would be like me filing a flight plan for an surveillence mission. When I take off, I have no idea where Im going. I just check in on the radio and stay in contact with ATC whenever possible.
So we can just ignore the filing requirement in 60-6? Interesting.
I dont think thats what I said? But thanks anyway.
QuoteI dont understand how you would even file a flight plan. Your flight plan is with your mission manager. Often you dont have a "destination" you are just going out and trolling hills and valleys.
Nevertheless, that is what the regulation seems to require.
Quote from: MikeD on August 16, 2009, 04:08:38 PM
I'm so getting on of the Secret Squirrel patches!
Quote from: bosshawk on August 16, 2009, 05:43:39 PM
First: where can I get one of those Secret Squirrel patches?
I got mine here:http://www.lapolicegear.com/sesqpa.html (http://www.lapolicegear.com/sesqpa.html)
Thanks, Steve, I am going to order one. I fly for the local Sheriff and that will go well on my LE flight jacket.
Quote from: RiverAux on August 17, 2009, 02:25:20 AM
QuoteI dont understand how you would even file a flight plan. Your flight plan is with your mission manager. Often you dont have a "destination" you are just going out and trolling hills and valleys.
Nevertheless, that is what the regulation seems to require.
I agree with RiverAux, the regulation seems clear on the face of it. Whether it is a sensible regulation, is probably dependent on what CD mission you are running on any particular day.
But, given that the CD missions are run with no Mission Base staff, no AOBD, just a CMD/MM working as a sort of FRO from home, I can understand why they want an FAA Flight Plan filed. It makes sense, except for those 'wandering' CD missions.
I hesitate to say this, for fear of the Lawyers, but I'd hate to bend the airplane (or worse...) on a CD mission without having that Required Flight Plan filed. It might get ugly in terms of Insurance and Liability and recriminations, and etc.
Thom Hamilton
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 16, 2009, 10:22:36 PM
I dont understand how you would even file a flight plan. Your flight plan is with your mission manager. Often you dont have a "destination" you are just going out and trolling hills and valleys.
That would be like me filing a flight plan for an surveillence mission. When I take off, I have no idea where Im going. I just check in on the radio and stay in contact with ATC whenever possible.
Here is how I do it:
I chose waypoints from navaids (ex: XYZ 240 radial - 24 NM), airports, or anything else that the FAA will accept in a flight plan to make a box around the area that I am searching. In the remarks section I tell the briefer that I will be operating in that box. If you fail to return, that is where they (we) will look for you.
Quote from: Auxpilot on August 17, 2009, 06:40:32 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 16, 2009, 10:22:36 PM
I dont understand how you would even file a flight plan. Your flight plan is with your mission manager. Often you dont have a "destination" you are just going out and trolling hills and valleys.
That would be like me filing a flight plan for an surveillence mission. When I take off, I have no idea where Im going. I just check in on the radio and stay in contact with ATC whenever possible.
Here is how I do it:
I chose waypoints from navaids (ex: XYZ 240 radial - 24 NM), airports, or anything else that the FAA will accept in a flight plan to make a box around the area that I am searching. In the remarks section I tell the briefer that I will be operating in that box. If you fail to return, that is where they (we) will look for you.
Or you could do it the way we did it when I was flying low-level routes/airdrop in the Air Force.
File IFR to the Entry Point for the Route, cancel IFR at that point, pick up your new IFR clearance at the exit point when you're done.
Quote from: Auxpilot on August 17, 2009, 06:40:32 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 16, 2009, 10:22:36 PM
I dont understand how you would even file a flight plan. Your flight plan is with your mission manager. Often you dont have a "destination" you are just going out and trolling hills and valleys.
That would be like me filing a flight plan for an surveillence mission. When I take off, I have no idea where Im going. I just check in on the radio and stay in contact with ATC whenever possible.
Here is how I do it:
I chose waypoints from navaids (ex: XYZ 240 radial - 24 NM), airports, or anything else that the FAA will accept in a flight plan to make a box around the area that I am searching. In the remarks section I tell the briefer that I will be operating in that box. If you fail to return, that is where they (we) will look for you.
Thanks, thats what I was looking for. Not a bunch of posts telling me I was avoiding the regs.
Quote from: PHall on August 18, 2009, 12:48:14 AM
Quote from: Auxpilot on August 17, 2009, 06:40:32 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 16, 2009, 10:22:36 PM
I dont understand how you would even file a flight plan. Your flight plan is with your mission manager. Often you dont have a "destination" you are just going out and trolling hills and valleys.
That would be like me filing a flight plan for an surveillence mission. When I take off, I have no idea where Im going. I just check in on the radio and stay in contact with ATC whenever possible.
Here is how I do it:
I chose waypoints from navaids (ex: XYZ 240 radial - 24 NM), airports, or anything else that the FAA will accept in a flight plan to make a box around the area that I am searching. In the remarks section I tell the briefer that I will be operating in that box. If you fail to return, that is where they (we) will look for you.
Or you could do it the way we did it when I was flying low-level routes/airdrop in the Air Force.
File IFR to the Entry Point for the Route, cancel IFR at that point, pick up your new IFR clearance at the exit point when you're done.
That would not meet the regs and if you went down during the search phase you would never be able to file the second IFR.
Given that the FRO does not have to look for you because you are supposed to have a vfr on file, you would be out of luck if you went down.
Quote from: Auxpilot on August 18, 2009, 12:47:56 PM
Quote from: PHall on August 18, 2009, 12:48:14 AM
Quote from: Auxpilot on August 17, 2009, 06:40:32 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 16, 2009, 10:22:36 PM
I dont understand how you would even file a flight plan. Your flight plan is with your mission manager. Often you dont have a "destination" you are just going out and trolling hills and valleys.
That would be like me filing a flight plan for an surveillence mission. When I take off, I have no idea where Im going. I just check in on the radio and stay in contact with ATC whenever possible.
Here is how I do it:
I chose waypoints from navaids (ex: XYZ 240 radial - 24 NM), airports, or anything else that the FAA will accept in a flight plan to make a box around the area that I am searching. In the remarks section I tell the briefer that I will be operating in that box. If you fail to return, that is where they (we) will look for you.
Or you could do it the way we did it when I was flying low-level routes/airdrop in the Air Force.
File IFR to the Entry Point for the Route, cancel IFR at that point, pick up your new IFR clearance at the exit point when you're done.
That would not meet the regs and if you went down during the search phase you would never be able to file the second IFR.
Given that the FRO does not have to look for you because you are supposed to have a vfr on file, you would be out of luck if you went down.
Well, when you don't return at your scheduled RTB time and the FAA varifies that you never picked up your clearance to return from the Area back to the airport they'll have a pretty good clue where to start looking.
Quote from: PHall on August 18, 2009, 02:55:41 PM
Quote from: Auxpilot on August 18, 2009, 12:47:56 PM
Quote from: PHall on August 18, 2009, 12:48:14 AM
Quote from: Auxpilot on August 17, 2009, 06:40:32 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 16, 2009, 10:22:36 PM
I dont understand how you would even file a flight plan. Your flight plan is with your mission manager. Often you dont have a "destination" you are just going out and trolling hills and valleys.
That would be like me filing a flight plan for an surveillence mission. When I take off, I have no idea where Im going. I just check in on the radio and stay in contact with ATC whenever possible.
Here is how I do it:
I chose waypoints from navaids (ex: XYZ 240 radial - 24 NM), airports, or anything else that the FAA will accept in a flight plan to make a box around the area that I am searching. In the remarks section I tell the briefer that I will be operating in that box. If you fail to return, that is where they (we) will look for you.
Or you could do it the way we did it when I was flying low-level routes/airdrop in the Air Force.
File IFR to the Entry Point for the Route, cancel IFR at that point, pick up your new IFR clearance at the exit point when you're done.
That would not meet the regs and if you went down during the search phase you would never be able to file the second IFR.
Given that the FRO does not have to look for you because you are supposed to have a vfr on file, you would be out of luck if you went down.
Well, when you don't return at your scheduled RTB time and the FAA varifies that you never picked up your clearance to return from the Area back to the airport they'll have a pretty good clue where to start looking.
The reg does not say that you are to file a flight plan for part of the mission so your method would not work in this situation.
What does this have to do with the [pee] test?