Does anyone know why CAP chose to go with the "V-neck" T-shirt when wearing the short sleeve blues shirt with no tie. In AFROTC, we always wore the regular "crew neck" T's when wearing the short sleeves/no tie. It seems like all other uniforms I see (both military and civillian) don't use the "V-neck" either. It just looks very odd to me (especially if a person has a lot of chest hair), and I think the "crew neck" would look better.
Quote from: Rob Sherlin on August 10, 2009, 02:15:17 PM
Does anyone know why CAP chose to go with the "V-neck" T-shirt when wearing the short sleeve blues shirt with no tie. In AFROTC, we always wore the regular "crew neck" T's when wearing the short sleeves/no tie. It seems like all other uniforms I see (both military and civillian) don't use the "V-neck" either. It just looks very odd to me (especially if a person has a lot of chest hair), and I think the "crew neck" would look better.
The Air Force has worn the V-Neck with short sleeve service dress since the McPeak era, and still do - we just aligned with them.
The urban legend is that General McPeak's wife did not think it was "manly to cover up your chest hair", though if you Google "mcpeak and chest hair", you'll see disagreement as to whether it was really his wife or just downstream airmen having a poke at him.
Quote from: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_uniform_052104,00.html?ESRC=eb.nl
In October 1990, Gen. Merrill McPeak took over as chief of staff. A hard-charging fighter pilot, McPeak wanted the Air Force to become the dominant military service branch.
In pursuit of that vision, McPeak wanted the Air Force organized around, and run by, fighter pilots like him. For those who flew bombers and cargo aircraft, this was a bitter pill to swallow.
McPeak thought changes in appearance were needed, so he ordered a redesign of the blue dress uniform. Among the most significant changes, epaulets were removed and rank insignia was put on the sleeve.
If McPeak's goal was to be distinctive, he scored. The result was a cross between what a bus driver and an airline pilot would wear. One officer privately complained he looked like Ralph Kramden.
Perhaps McPeak's most controversial move, however, was to ban the wearing of crew neck T-shirts under the open-necked, light-blue uniform blouse. McPeak thought the combination was unkempt. V- neck tees were acceptable.
For rank-and-file airmen, however, this was more of McPeak's machismo run amok.
A series of underground "brown papers" began circulating inside the Pentagon poking fun at the general. In them, his reforms were mocked as "The Emergence of the Manly Man."
"What this type of undershirt hides is the amount of chest hair of the USAF member," one paper says of the crew-neck decision. "The implication, of course, is that the more chest hair, the better."
McPeak retired in November 1994. His replacement, Gen. Ronald Fogleman, wasted little time in reversing many fashion decisions.
I think it's just a myth!
Perhaps something to do with mandating that white tshirts couldn't be visible when worn with the various subdued fatigues/bdus of the time. There for awhile we wore green fatigues with subdued tapes, no white of the t-shirt could be visible. Ain't saying it's a good reason, but who knows...
Quote from: MSgt Van on August 10, 2009, 04:24:33 PM
Perhaps something to do with mandating that white tshirts couldn't be visible when worn with the various subdued fatigues/bdus of the time. There for awhile we wore green fatigues with subdued tapes, no white of the t-shirt could be visible. Ain't saying it's a good reason, but who knows...
I doubt that would be it. At the time McPeak made his changes, the only authorized undershirt for BDU's was the brown one.
There have been different myths on the V-neck. The one I'd heard most often was that a high ranking general's wife (which could have been McPeak's for all I know) ran into an airman wearing a crew neck undershirt with his blues that was all stretched out. She then complained to her husband, and shortly thereafter V-necks became mandatory.
This one is better>>>>> An AF Genral had a uncle who owned a V neck tee shirt factory So the Genral instructed all to wear the V neck and the General got a little kick back money from the increased sales of the v neck. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Strick on August 10, 2009, 05:00:21 PM
This one is better>>>>> An AF Genral had a uncle who owned a V neck tee shirt factory So the Genral instructed all to wear the V neck and the General got a little kick back money from the increased sales of the v neck. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I wouldn't buy that for any price. How many factories do you think would produce only a V-neck T-shirt? Doesn't even sound remotely plausible, and I would imagine that it was made up by someone not even military, and trying to a push a conspiracy type theory. The website didn't have the initials "N O T F" on it, did it?
They just suck and look sloppy. The dept I work for REQUIRED V-necks for years. Our new Sheriff just changed it and made them optional or the crew neck. We are much happier. Its the little things.
I wore crew necks as a cadet and would like to see them return. Just a cleaner look IMHO.
Back in the mid-late 80's, the USAF wore OD green crew neck t-shirts under our fatigues and later BDU's. Also, as a suggestion... buy your v-neck t-shirts one size smaller than normal. This helps keep them from puckering up in the front and looking bad.
Quote from: SilverEagle2 on August 10, 2009, 05:58:56 PM
I wore crew necks as a cadet and would like to see them return. Just a cleaner look IMHO.
I personally like the look of a crew neck, but sadly the term "white" tends to be somewhat subjective
in CAP.
I'm with either side, v-neck or crew neck. To me the real challenge is which to wear with the polo shirts. Wearing a v-neck looks better because a crew neck white shirt under the navy blue sticks out like a sore thumb. A black crew neck however does look pretty good so you can use you bdu undershirt...
Quote from: Lt Domke on August 10, 2009, 06:29:14 PM
To me the real challenge is which to wear with the polo shirts.
I wear gray pants. Why would you wear something under a golf shirt?
Some do for religious reasons, some for comfort, some do just because it's the way they wear all shirts. YYMV.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 10, 2009, 06:34:56 PM
Quote from: Lt Domke on August 10, 2009, 06:29:14 PM
To me the real challenge is which to wear with the polo shirts.
I wear gray pants. Why would you wear something under a golf shirt?
I guess to keep from ruining the shirt with deoderant/perspiration stains?
The post was meant for wear of the short sleeve Blues or White Aviator shirt uniforms without a tie. It doesn't apply to the other uniforms (well, somewhat with BDU). I just think the crew necks look a lot better with the uniforms as long as the collar isn't stretched out. I can buy the idea of that looking sloppy when it's stretched out. But, to me, chest hair sticking out of the top where it's unbuttoned also looks sloppy. I usually buy "crew necks" in bulk at a good price. Now I have to buy "V-necks" just so I can be comfortable without the "blue noose" in hotter weather when I have to wear blues.
Quote from: Rob Sherlin on August 10, 2009, 02:15:17 PM
In AFROTC, we always wore the regular "crew neck" T's when wearing the short sleeves/no tie. It seems like all other uniforms I see (both military and civillian) don't use the "V-neck" either.
Strange, at my local university, the AFROTC Cadets wear v-neck. I think all AF wears v-neck??
Quote from: Spike on August 11, 2009, 03:53:15 AM
Quote from: Rob Sherlin on August 10, 2009, 02:15:17 PM
In AFROTC, we always wore the regular "crew neck" T's when wearing the short sleeves/no tie. It seems like all other uniforms I see (both military and civillian) don't use the "V-neck" either.
Strange, at my local university, the AFROTC Cadets wear v-neck. I think all AF wears v-neck??
They do at present. Rob's post was a "back when" type of post.
^ ah.....I will read more closely next time.
I like crew neck t's better. But will wear what the "parents" want me to wear.
Quote from: Spike on August 11, 2009, 04:24:55 PM
^ ah.....I will read more closely next time.
I like crew neck t's better. But will wear what the "parents" want me to wear.
I hear ya. Coming from the Army, I prefer crew neck just cause it looks more professional and now I have to spend money.
Can we wear crew neck with the TPU ?, I have yet to find a cited reg on it.
Since the TPU CSU only exisits in ICL's, the regs do not speak to this, however common sense would say "no", since every other short-sleeve dress shirt in CAP is worn with a v-neck.
To the best of my knowledge, none of the corporate uniforms specify one way or the other. Sometimes a color is specified, but it generally just says something like "appropriate undergarments will be worn."
Glad to see a lot of people feel the same way. The "V-neck" just looks as nasty as a stretched out "crew neck" when a person has a lot of chest hair. I feel that was a BAD desicion to enforce the "V-neck". A lot of movies and such where you see Air Force and other uniforms, you don't see them wearing "V-necks".....Why?.....Because the "crew necks"loook better! I just don't understand why the officials who make up the uniform rules don't understand this..or they have no taste or dedication to change the regulations for the better!
PS..I'm not trying to cause a "beef" with people with a lot of chest hair that would stick out when wearing the uniform. But, what's next?..We gonna' have to shave our chest?...BRING BACK THE "CREW NECKS"!..It's a small request..Surely we can all get it done!
Posts merged. - MIKE
I think you should wear what is comfortable either the v-neck or crew neck.
Quote from: Rob Sherlin on August 11, 2009, 07:26:25 PMA lot of movies and such where you see Air Force and other uniforms, you don't see them wearing "V-necks"
Please post a pic from a recent movie or tv show which seeks to depict the Air Force uniform state of the last 20 years and shows anyone wearing a crewneck with the short sleeve blue uniform. Actually, 2-3 would more support your assertion of "a lot".
(http://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/don-s-davis-general-hammond.jpg)
(RIP General Hammond)
^ Do the late Mr. Davis a favor and fix the above: http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0006003/
This picture looks like he is wearing a v-neck. Sorry guys.
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2917637888/nm0204493
I would strongly endorse changing to the crew necks. They're what I wore in the Marine Corps and for decades thereafter. They look much more professional and military. When I joined CAP, I bought the first V-necks I ever owned. They are worn only with my CAP uniforms -- I think they look and feel silly in any other context.
Although there can be problems with color and condition of crew neck t-shirts, those are easier to fix than to get us hairy chested brutes to shave low enough so that the hair doesn't poke out of a v-neck - which looks way more unprofessional than the worst crew neck.
Sad to say, but this is more and more becoming a moot point since few new members are getting the service uniform because it is hardly ever being used as the uniform of the day for seniors anymore (other than by seniors working with cadets, though even that appears to be on the decline).
I wear whatever the UOD is for my cadets except for PT night when I wear the polo.