Ok situation time.
If you had about 8 active cadets
consisting of
2 C/a1c
4 C/amn
and 2 c/ab
How would you organize the chain of command from this information?
Two elements
C/A1C - Element leader
C/AMN
C/AMN
C/AB
Element leaders report directly to DCC.
One element with a Leadership Officer doing the leading.
Quote from: arajca on August 01, 2009, 03:57:22 AM
Two elements
C/A1C - Element leader
C/AMN
C/AMN
C/AB
Element leaders report directly to DCC.
Agree. You do not need a C/CC in all circumstances. If you are starting that small, organize into a couple elements, then flights, then set up your squadron cadet structure with C/CC and other cadet staff as you grow and the cadets progress in the cadet program. Focus on learning the leadership materials for your achievement instead of rushing into cadet officer stuff. Once you have a C/2d Lt or there abouts, it might be good to have a C/CC then.
If you don't have it I'd recommend getting the Cadet Staff Handbook, CAPP 52-15. It's a great resource and has recommended organization for different sized groups of cadets. You can get it online, and your squadron should have a copy of it.
Quote from: arajca on August 01, 2009, 03:57:22 AM
Two elements
C/A1C - Element leader
C/AMN
C/AMN
C/AB
Element leaders report directly to DCC.
+1
Start small, like this. When you guys get an NCO (and not necessarily the minute someone pins on C/SSgt, but when you have someone who is competent to really lead as an NCO) then you can add a Flight Sergeant to the mix, and eventually a Fight Commander when you get an officer.
One of the problems many small units have is being 'over staffed', because they think they have to fill all 25 gazillion staff positions with their 10 cadets. You wind up with a truckload of 'leaders' with no one to lead.
I agree one Element leader
C/A1C - Element leader
C/AMN
C/AMN
C/AB
Element leader reports to DCC
All the information can be found in CAPP 52-15.
Here is the link:
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/P052_015_21F7ACED34F45.pdf
I would set it up like this:
C/a1c - Recruiting Officer
C/a1c - Recruiting Officer/ Mentor for the 2 Cadet Basics
C/amn - Recruiting Officer
C/amn - Recruiting Officer
C/amn - Recruiting Officer
C/amn - Recruiting Officer
C/ab - Recruiting/ mentor program until Curry
C/ab - Recruiting / mentor program until Curry
Also, don't putr a cadet into a position until they are ready to fill the position. 20-1 is your friend.
Quote from: Spike on August 02, 2009, 04:05:46 AM
I would set it up like this:
C/a1c - Recruiting Officer
C/a1c - Recruiting Officer/ Mentor for the 2 Cadet Basics
C/amn - Recruiting Officer
C/amn - Recruiting Officer
C/amn - Recruiting Officer
C/amn - Recruiting Officer
C/ab - Recruiting/ mentor program until Curry
C/ab - Recruiting / mentor program until Curry
Those are duty assignmetns, not a Chain of Command.
Not being terribly current with cadet program operations, why is it an option to not have a cadet commander? Why is having a cadet commander precluded by having a small number of relatively low-ranking cadets? Is the "cadet commander" title reserved for cadets of a certain rank only?
I fully understand that low-ranking cadets won't have received all the leadership training available to them in CAP, but isn't someone always top dog? If I started a senior squadron tomorrow, one of those 15 folks with senior member rank would be squadron commander on day 1.
Quote from: RiverAux on August 02, 2009, 08:55:24 PM
Not being terribly current with cadet program operations, why is it an option to not have a cadet commander? Why is having a cadet commander precluded by having a small number of relatively low-ranking cadets? Is the "cadet commander" title reserved for cadets of a certain rank only?
I fully understand that low-ranking cadets won't have received all the leadership training available to them in CAP, but isn't someone always top dog? If I started a senior squadron tomorrow, one of those 15 folks with senior member rank would be squadron commander on day 1.
You can have a C/CC, but it is not really appropriate, at least in my opinion, for a cadet airman to be cadet commander. They are still in charge per say but have a job title appropriate to their grade.
There are no set-in-stone grade requirements for any cadet position within a squadron, however it really doesn't make sense to have a C/CC commanding four cadets, especially when the cadet in the position really isn't prepared to be the 'Cadet Commander'.
The idea is to build up as you increase in members, so if you have 10 cadets with two C/A1Cs at the top, then you have two elements who report to the DCC. One they get an NCO they can add a Flight Sergeant, an officer, a Flight Commander, and so on. This gives the cadets time to develop as leaders so they are competent to actually perform the higher positions, rather than being given a title without the actual responsibility that position usually comes with.
Being the cadet commander is a lot more than just being the highest-ranking cadet in a squadron. Even for a small squadron, the job a C/CC SHOULD be doing requires a good grasp on long-term planning, leadership, mentoring, administration, interaction with senior-members, etc.
Anyone who hasn't gotten to at least C/SSgt has not, as far as CAP is concerned, even touched on these traits yet, let alone is ready to use them to help direct a unit.
If a C/A1C was put into the position of C/CC, I think it would be the same job as an element leader with a different title. That IS a bad thing, not only because it gives all the cadets in the unit a false impression of how much responsibility a cadet commander has in NORMAL situations (or abnormal, such as the C/CC of an encampment), but it also has a high chance of leaving one cadet in the position for a LONG time. If that happens, and the now C/Officer who has been the C/CC for three years is still using the same low-grade responsibility that he/she has been using since C/A1C, then we have a serious problem in terms of actually putting to use the command skills we're trying to teach cadets in the program.
Quote from: Nathan on August 03, 2009, 03:22:02 AM
Being the cadet commander is a lot more than just being the highest-ranking cadet in a squadron. Even for a small squadron, the job a C/CC SHOULD be doing requires a good grasp on long-term planning, leadership, mentoring, administration, interaction with senior-members, etc.
Anyone who hasn't gotten to at least C/SSgt has not, as far as CAP is concerned, even touched on these traits yet, let alone is ready to use them to help direct a unit.
If a C/A1C was put into the position of C/CC, I think it would be the same job as an element leader with a different title. That IS a bad thing, not only because it gives all the cadets in the unit a false impression of how much responsibility a cadet commander has in NORMAL situations (or abnormal, such as the C/CC of an encampment), but it also has a high chance of leaving one cadet in the position for a LONG time. If that happens, and the now C/Officer who has been the C/CC for three years is still using the same low-grade responsibility that he/she has been using since C/A1C, then we have a serious problem in terms of actually putting to use the command skills we're trying to teach cadets in the program.
See, I hear this all the time, but as a C/SSgt (ish), I was the Cadet Commander of my squadron, and I was expected to perform several tasks that I found myself doing well into my C/Officership. I had a highly motivated Corps of Senior Members who gave me tasks, held me accountable, but at the same time, they helped me learn and get it done. I had several cadets under me I relied heavily on, and when they failed, we all had to pick up their slack.
One thing that helped was recruiting newer cadets, absolutely. This was integral in making sure we always had someone to fill the ranks. It makes it easier to learn the material (AE, LL, Drill, what have you), when you constantly teaching it and menoring younger cadets on the subjects. That's one reason I felt so confident going into both my Mitchell and Earhart exams, because I knew the stuff like I had been teaching it for years! (I had!)
This is actually a scenario built into the TLC program. They offer 3 different sized squadrons with different rank structures and you can build your squadron. It gives a lot of details on how you can arrange squadrons and help to give the cadets the experiences they need to grow as leaders. The other thing it also speaks about in that chapter is how much direction should the DCC or Leadership Officer be giving to the cadets in each scenario. I think that is very important when assigning the cadets to their positions. Daniel's squadron may need more input from senior members than squadrons with higher ranking cadets. Don't forget though, even though new, Daniel's cadets are still going to want a say in their program and I believe it is very important to listen to them and find the right about of leadership given by the senior members and cadets. Then as they grow and mature, this leadership should also change.
CAPR 52-16 does show recommended ranks for each position at the bottom of the Leadership Expectations chart on pg 29. For Cadet Commander, it suggests C/Maj.