OK, I give up. I've looked all over the place and can't find a canonical reference to this one way or the other:
Should Cloth CAP 'cutouts' be worn on the Collars of Blue BDUs by Senior Members WithOut Grade?
I can find the reference for SMWOG wearing CAP Cloth on both Collars of the BDUs, but what about the Blue BDUs? That section of CAPM 39-1 doesn't have any listing for them, but I've seen pictures (somewhere) and seen references in text to them being worn on both BDU and BBDU.
Were they added in some ICL I haven't been able to find?
It would seem that they are not necessary with the BBDU, since no one should remotely mistake you for an actual Air Force member, they don't wear BBDUs at all to my knowledge.
Of course, if I've simply been too dense to see the obvious regulation, please let me know where I can find it so I can be appropriately chagrined. :'(
Thanks!
Thom Hamilton
Yes - both collars.
The camo BDU's and blue field uniforms are configured identically, with the exception that metal grade can be worn on the blue field hat with the blue BDU if you are so inclined (not on a blue ball cap).
Both the Coast Guard and Navy wear field or work uniforms similar to the blue field uniforms, including having bright (non-subdued) grade and nametapes.
The reference you're looking four can be found in CAPM 39-1, Chapter 1, Figure 2-17, Note 2, (on page 32), "CAP Lapel/Collar Insignia: Senior member NCOs and Airmen as well as senior members without grade wear this device on both sides of the collar."
Don't feel badly about not finding it, it's just buried in the manual like everything else.
Well, before anyone kicks me to hard, I didn't take not of the second letter "B" in BBDU before responding. I quoted the reference to the BDU uniform combination.
The uniform manual doesn't give a reference for SMWOG in this uniform combination (CAP Distinctive Blue Field Uniform) or at least I couldn't find one.
However, I concur with Eclipse's advise; wear them on both collars.
Quote from: CAPOfficer on July 19, 2009, 09:04:00 PM
Well, before anyone kicks me to hard, I didn't take not of the second letter "B" in BBDU before responding. I quoted the reference to the BDU uniform combination.
The uniform manual doesn't give a reference for SMWOG in this uniform combination (CAP Distinctive Blue Field Uniform) or at least I couldn't find one.
However, I concur with Eclipse's advise; wear them on both collars.
That's because the BBDU was not around when the current 39-1 was released.
BBDU's are covered by one of the IMC's/Letters.
The Blue BDU is in the 2005 edition of 39-1. The SMWOG issue in regards to this uniform was obviously overlooked.
Quote from: RiverAux on July 19, 2009, 09:27:56 PM
The Blue BDU is in the 2005 edition of 39-1. The SMWOG issue in regards to this uniform was obviously overlooked.
That's sort of what I thought. I have looked all through the CAPM 39-1, and at every ICL I could find, even the Wing letters. I never have found anything that discusses the issue for SMWOG.
I did find a couple of ICLs which addressed the changes to allow the Cloth Rank, and later on either the Cloth or Metal Rank, to be worn on the Blue BDU Patrol Cap (or whatever you want to call it...) and authorizing the wear (without Rank) of the Blue Boonie Hat.
But, I still haven't found where they spell out that I should wear the CAP Cloth on the Collars of the BBDU.
I'm not trying to be difficult, but if the intention was NOT that everyone do this, then why are so many doing it? And, if they intended us to wear them, shouldn't it be written down somewhere???
I know, expecting total sense in this is a fool's errand, but still...
And, on top of that, I only expect to be wearing these for a few weeks until my Mission Skills promotion gets done, but I'd still like to follow the rules, whatever they happen to be.
Would the consensus be to 'follow the crowd' and wear them, even lacking direct regulation requiring it? Or, should I go without them and tell anyone who asks to 'show me the reg'? Meaning that last in a polite, non-Snippy manner, of course.
Thanks!
Thom Hamilton
Wear them. Assume that it was just an oversight and poor editing (not unusual for this manual).
Quote from: RiverAux on July 19, 2009, 10:01:25 PM
Wear them. Assume that it was just an oversight and poor editing (not unusual for this manual).
I'm getting that impression.
And, I'll go sew the things on. That looks like it'll be fun.
Thanks for all the help!
Thom Hamilton
We've probably beaten this to death on other posts, but for the six months (or less) that a member is an SMWOG, maybe nothing on the collar should be the way to go (?)
I have always felt that it would be easiest if the insignia was the same with respect to the same class of AF vs. Corporate uniforms. Thus, the insignia on the BDU would be the same as the insignia on the BBDU, with the current exception of military insignia not on the corporate uniform.
That way, they would just have to write up one set of specs in the regs and there would be less chance of things being overlooked, like insignia for SMWOG in the BBDU.
Quote from: davedove on July 20, 2009, 07:02:06 PM
I have always felt that it would be easiest if the insignia was the same with respect to the same class of AF vs. Corporate uniforms.
It is.
Quote from: O-Rex on July 20, 2009, 06:35:21 PM
We've probably beaten this to death on other posts, but for the six months (or less) that a member is an SMWOG, maybe nothing on the collar should be the way to go (?)
I'd agree. No reason to put something on so temporary.
Delete it for Senior Member NCO's as well. No reason to put it on there either.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 20, 2009, 07:46:39 PM
Quote from: davedove on July 20, 2009, 07:02:06 PM
I have always felt that it would be easiest if the insignia was the same with respect to the same class of AF vs. Corporate uniforms.
It is.
But the regs could be a whole lot clearer on that.
Quote from: Hawk200 on July 20, 2009, 07:52:34 PM
Quote from: O-Rex on July 20, 2009, 06:35:21 PM
We've probably beaten this to death on other posts, but for the six months (or less) that a member is an SMWOG, maybe nothing on the collar should be the way to go (?)
I'd agree. No reason to put something on so temporary.
Delete it for Senior Member NCO's as well. No reason to put it on there either.
It gives new senior members the absoloute worst first impression possible. Here they go and join and we tell them to go out and buy all this stuff and then tell them that in order to wear it they will need to sew on some stuff that will probably only be there a matter of a couple of months and then they have to take it off and sew new things on.
The big huge patch across the chest saying "Civil Air Patrol" is more than enough to identify them. Having the little CAPs on the collar doesn't help.
Golf shirt people... Golf shirt.
Did we ever figure out why it's called the "golf" shirt. Most of us don't play golf in it. I have also heard that type of shirt being referred to as a "polo" shirt, but I'll bet that even fewer of us play polo than golf. Unless, of course, we were in the Argentine CAP. There, I believe, polo is part of the Senior Development Program. ::) ::) :D :D :D
It looks like shirts golfers wear. It also resembles the Polo brand of shirts marketed by Ralph Lauren. :D
Quote from: olefido on July 20, 2009, 11:05:45 PM
Did we ever figure out why it's called the "golf" shirt. Most of us don't play golf in it. I have also heard that type of shirt being referred to as a "polo" shirt, but I'll bet that even fewer of us play polo than golf.
This was discussed before, and I believe a few wikis show that style as a "golf", "polo", or "tennis" shirt. It's just a design.