CAP Talk

Operations => Emergency Services & Operations => Topic started by: RiverAux on June 29, 2009, 10:27:28 PM

Title: Personnel Recovery as a core AF function
Post by: RiverAux on June 29, 2009, 10:27:28 PM
This article discusses how personnel recover (i.e., SAR, both combat and non-combat) is now considered one of the AF's 12 core functions. 

While it probably won't have much of a direct impact on CAP, I think it actually is a huge leap forward in terms of showing how CAP has a direct impact on a major AF mission area.  Perhaps the increased visibility of this mission set may help us out some in the future.

Some Coast Guard folks may argue a bit with this statement:
Quote"The Air Force is the only service who possesses weapon systems and career fields that are solely dedicated to recovering isolated personnel," said Col. Darryle Grimes, the 347th Rescue Group commander. "It's essential to develop a global (personnel recovery) capacity that will help achieve national security objectives."

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123156264
Title: Re: Personnel Recovery as a core AF function
Post by: Flying Pig on June 30, 2009, 01:09:05 AM
It says the Air Force is the only "service".  Im assuming they are referring to the armed services.
Title: Re: Personnel Recovery as a core AF function
Post by: PHall on June 30, 2009, 01:43:11 AM
The SEC DEF in canceling the CSAR-X program said that there would be a review of each services personnel recovery needs/capabilities before he decides if the Air Force needs a new CSAR "vehicle".

An example that is mentioned is the fact the Scott O'Grady was recovered by a Marine Corps CH-53 and not by an Air Force aircraft.

Between this and the QDR, things may change...
Title: Re: Personnel Recovery as a core AF function
Post by: Hawk200 on June 30, 2009, 01:54:26 AM
Quote from: PHall on June 30, 2009, 01:43:11 AM
The SEC DEF in canceling the CSAR-X program said that there would be a review of each services personnel recovery needs/capabilities before he decides if the Air Force needs a new CSAR "vehicle".

An example that is mentioned is the fact the Scott O'Grady was recovered by a Marine Corps CH-53 and not by an Air Force aircraft.

Between this and the QDR, things may change...

Probably because recovery is not limited to any particular branch. Prior to our deployment, we were informed that if we needed to be recovered, it may not necessarily be our own branch. It's a matter of whoever is in the area.
Title: Re: Personnel Recovery as a core AF function
Post by: RiverAux on June 30, 2009, 01:55:31 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on June 30, 2009, 01:09:05 AM
It says the Air Force is the only "service".  Im assuming they are referring to the armed services.
You do know that the Coast Guard is one of the 5 armed services don't you?
Title: Re: Personnel Recovery as a core AF function
Post by: Flying Pig on June 30, 2009, 03:12:54 AM
 Last I checked, there were no Coast Guard Admirals on the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Title: Re: Personnel Recovery as a core AF function
Post by: RiverAux on June 30, 2009, 03:22:18 AM
Doesn't matter.  Check federal law. 
Title: Re: Personnel Recovery as a core AF function
Post by: BTCS1* on June 30, 2009, 03:58:09 AM
Its under DHS but its still DEFINITLY one of the armed forces.
Title: Re: Personnel Recovery as a core AF function
Post by: Hawk200 on June 30, 2009, 04:02:48 AM
Quote from: BTCS1* on June 30, 2009, 03:58:09 AM
Its under DHS but its still DEFINITLY one of the armed forces.

Coast Guard actually performs operationally under many organizations. DOT as well, and works with the Navy during times of war. The Coast Guard is definitely multifaceted.

However, the recovery that is mentioned in the initial post concerns combat search and rescue. I don't believe the Coast Guard is in that arena of operations.
Title: Re: Personnel Recovery as a core AF function
Post by: BTCS1* on June 30, 2009, 04:04:18 AM
The initial post said combat and non-combat. And non-combat SAR is kinda the USCG's thing.
Title: Re: Personnel Recovery as a core AF function
Post by: Hawk200 on June 30, 2009, 04:40:16 AM
Quote from: BTCS1* on June 30, 2009, 04:04:18 AMThe initial post said combat and non-combat.

Point taken.

Quote from: BTCS1* on June 30, 2009, 04:04:18 AMAnd non-combat SAR is kinda the USCG's thing.

Probably not what you're thinking of. When it comes to the types of SAR things that the Air Force is talking about, it's not really relating to Coast Guard functions.

Now the Coast Guard does a lot of non-military related SAR. But that's a different arena entirely. In that particular arena, the Coast Guard does handle most of it.
Title: Re: Personnel Recovery as a core AF function
Post by: Gunner C on June 30, 2009, 05:38:26 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on June 29, 2009, 10:27:28 PM
This article discusses how personnel recover (i.e., SAR, both combat and non-combat) is now considered one of the AF's 12 core functions. 

While it probably won't have much of a direct impact on CAP, I think it actually is a huge leap forward in terms of showing how CAP has a direct impact on a major AF mission area.  Perhaps the increased visibility of this mission set may help us out some in the future.

Some Coast Guard folks may argue a bit with this statement:
Quote"The Air Force is the only service who possesses weapon systems and career fields that are solely dedicated to recovering isolated personnel," said Col. Darryle Grimes, the 347th Rescue Group commander. "It's essential to develop a global (personnel recovery) capacity that will help achieve national security objectives."

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123156264
Does anyone know if the 347th Rescue Group is part of AFSOC?  For years it was understood that this mission wasn't an Air Force mission, but was a USSOCOM mission.  Yes, the AF supplies the bodies, but the bodies are paid, tasked, and commanded by SOF.
Title: Re: Personnel Recovery as a core AF function
Post by: sardak on June 30, 2009, 05:52:55 AM
Linky to Joint Chiefs Pub 3-50, Personnel Recovery. (http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/new_pubs/jp3_50.pdf) Among the appendices are one for each service - Army, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard, Air Force and another for Special Ops Forces. On an historical note, JP 3-50 used to be the National SAR Manual. That no longer is a Joint Pub, but is under the control of the Coast Guard and National SAR Committee.

NORTHCOM has established a Joint Personnel Recovery Center (JPRC) in the Air Ops Center at Tyndall AFB, alongside AFRCC. The JPRC is responsible for coordinating Personnel Recovery (PR) and Defense Support to Civil Authorities (DSCA) while AFRCC is responsible for coordinating civil SAR (day-to-day type SAR).

Mike
Title: Re: Personnel Recovery as a core AF function
Post by: ol'fido on June 30, 2009, 11:11:19 PM
Quote from: Gunner C on June 30, 2009, 05:38:26 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on June 29, 2009, 10:27:28 PM
This article discusses how personnel recover (i.e., SAR, both combat and non-combat) is now considered one of the AF's 12 core functions. 

While it probably won't have much of a direct impact on CAP, I think it actually is a huge leap forward in terms of showing how CAP has a direct impact on a major AF mission area.  Perhaps the increased visibility of this mission set may help us out some in the future.

Some Coast Guard folks may argue a bit with this statement:
Quote"The Air Force is the only service who possesses weapon systems and career fields that are solely dedicated to recovering isolated personnel," said Col. Darryle Grimes, the 347th Rescue Group commander. "It's essential to develop a global (personnel recovery) capacity that will help achieve national security objectives."

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123156264
Does anyone know if the 347th Rescue Group is part of AFSOC?  For years it was understood that this mission wasn't an Air Force mission, but was a USSOCOM mission.  Yes, the AF supplies the bodies, but the bodies are paid, tasked, and commanded by SOF.

I believe that a couple of years ago all the rescue units were trandferred to AFSOC. I don't know any specifics. I just remember reading and/or hearing about it.