With over 100,000 cadets participating in Air Force JROTC at any one time, there would seem to be huge potential for converting them into senior members at some point after they've left JROTC. Now, I suspect that like with CAP cadets not many will go right from JROTC to senior member status due to college, life, etc., but could join up later.
I think most AFJROTC cadets are probably going to have a general idea about the CAP cadet program, but may not know much about what the adults are doing and how it would let them serve their country even if they decide not to joint the Armed Forces.
1. Does anyone know if the JROTC program has any section devoted to explaining CAP and what it does?
2. Has anyone ever gone to JROTC units to give a general CAP presentation to at least lay the groundwork towards making them think about joining CAP later in life? Any results?
Quote from: RiverAux on June 26, 2009, 09:36:58 PM
With over 100,000 cadets participating in Air Force JROTC at any one time, there would seem to be huge potential for converting them into senior members at some point after they've left JROTC. Now, I suspect that like with CAP cadets not many will go right from JROTC to senior member status due to college, life, etc., but could join up later.
I think most AFJROTC cadets are probably going to have a general idea about the CAP cadet program, but may not know much about what the adults are doing and how it would let them serve their country even if they decide not to joint the Armed Forces.
1. Does anyone know if the JROTC program has any section devoted to explaining CAP and what it does?
2. Has anyone ever gone to JROTC units to give a general CAP presentation to at least lay the groundwork towards making them think about joining CAP later in life? Any results?
As for number one, as of the time I went through the program, no. That was 2001-2004. That's not to say it isn't included now, but really, that isn't any interest to their curriculum.
And 2, can't say that I have, and can't say that I would have any luck doing it. Locally at least, the staff is very concerned with keeping their AFJROTC cadets focused on AFJROTC. They'd rather not have a distraction of CAP detracting from their program and their cadets. That's just the LOCAL vibe, and even that might be out of date. YMMV.
Not sure I see the benefit of getting an 18 year old former JROTC member who isn't doing anything else after he/she leaves high school, except working. I would hope most kids graduating high school would go on to higher education whether it be technical or college. Most don't have the time to give to the CAP program, since they are working as well as studying for school.
Many CAP units have local news releases about their meeting, activities etc published in the local newspapers. IF any former JROTC or ROTC members have an interest (which I doubt most of them do), they can easily contact a CAP unit.
Again with the pending organizational synergy that CAP/USAF CC is proposing, perhaps there will be even closer CAP ties at the local level with JROTC & ROTC units. I would guess that JROTC & regular ROTC units (with paid staff members) already have some sort of "synergy", since the goal of JROTC is to either have cadets go directly in the AF or go to college and join the local ROTC unit.
We shall see what these organizational changes will bring in the future.
RM
Quote from: RiverAux on June 26, 2009, 09:36:58 PM
With over 100,000 cadets participating in Air Force JROTC at any one time, there would seem to be huge potential for converting them into senior members at some point after they've left JROTC. Now, I suspect that like with CAP cadets not many will go right from JROTC to senior member status due to college, life, etc., but could join up later.
1. The only real mention of CAP in AFJROTC is about a page in the first text book (Aerospace Science: Frontiers of Aviation History pages 3-109 and 3-110). Some of the data is out of date but I have to say they do give a lot more credit then most other places would. Other then this page, I only remember hearing about CAP when they were ranting about some horribleness of CAP, which I found out later to not be true (When I joined my senior year!)
2. When I was a senior in HS, I first joined CAP and did try to get a few others to join with me. However, none of them did. I actually have a plan to try to get the SASI to come down to a meeting to do a class or talk about his experiences (And to see how we run hehe) but I haven't been able to implement it, although I do have my squadron's commanders approval to try. Maybe next year... I will however try to have a couple come down to our CG practice at their school and show them about dedication.
QuoteNot sure I see the benefit of getting an 18 year old former JROTC member who isn't doing anything else after he/she leaves high school, except working.
Did you really mean to denigrate the potential contributions of 18 year old high school graduates to CAP? There are quite a few ways that they can contribute without having an advanced degree.
But, as I said in the first post, I wasn't primarily thinking of immediate recruiting benefits, but of putting the thought in their head so that when they were settled down that CAP might be an option for them to consider that they might not have otherwise.
Thanks Ozzy. Its good to know that CAP is getting some mention in their program so that they do know something about the organization, even without a personal visit by a CAP member.
Quote from: RiverAux on June 27, 2009, 05:15:51 PM
QuoteNot sure I see the benefit of getting an 18 year old former JROTC member who isn't doing anything else after he/she leaves high school, except working.
Did you really mean to denigrate the potential contributions of 18 year old high school graduates to CAP? There are quite a few ways that they can contribute without having an advanced degree.
Well there are limitations on what 18 year olds can do in CAP, and I personally am not so sure putting them in cadet programs is best for them or the organization. I would think as with all prospective senior members a good non structured probing interview would be in order to pin down why they want to join. Surely how far someone advanced in the AF JR ROTC would be of interest.
In our unit -- Other than former CAP members who either quit as cadets OR decide when they turn 18 that the cadet program wasn't for them, I haven't seen any former JR ROTC types. My guess is the former JR ROTC are either in college; in the AF; or after taking the HS courses, decided that the AF/military have NO place in their lives.
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 27, 2009, 11:19:53 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on June 27, 2009, 05:15:51 PM
QuoteNot sure I see the benefit of getting an 18 year old former JROTC member who isn't doing anything else after he/she leaves high school, except working.
Did you really mean to denigrate the potential contributions of 18 year old high school graduates to CAP? There are quite a few ways that they can contribute without having an advanced degree.
Well there are limitations on what 18 year olds can do in CAP, and I personally am not so sure putting them in cadet programs is best for them or the organization. I would think as with all prospective senior members a good non structured probing interview would be in order to pin down why they want to join. Surely how far someone advanced in the AF JR ROTC would be of interest.
In our unit -- Other than former CAP members who either quit as cadets OR decide when they turn 18 that the cadet program wasn't for them, I haven't seen any former JR ROTC types. My guess is the former JR ROTC are either in college; in the AF; or after taking the HS courses, decided that the AF/military have NO place in their lives.
RM
An 18 year old FO with prior cadet program experience would be an excellent addition to any local Cadet Program. That's what we should be using Flight Officers for...
QuoteWell there are limitations on what 18 year olds can do in CAP, and I personally am not so sure putting them in cadet programs is best for them or the organization.
I didn't suggest that. To remind you the title of the thread talks about them as potential SENIOR members.
About the only restriction I can think of is they can't operate a CAP Vehicle. Other than that, what else is there?
Quote from: RiverAux on June 28, 2009, 02:32:29 AM
QuoteWell there are limitations on what 18 year olds can do in CAP, and I personally am not so sure putting them in cadet programs is best for them or the organization.
I didn't suggest that. To remind you the title of the thread talks about them as potential SENIOR members.
ANYWAYS, from my experiences from AFJROTC, I see many benefits that can be utilized if we could indeed get them. I wrote at the end of each little section the amount of time we usually gave each week. Since it is a high school program, it is every day, monday through friday, and one class period each day... which for my school ranged from 45min one year to 55min another. If you took into account after school activities like cadet leadership school, model rocketry, drill team, color guard, you could add probably at least one hour per day per activity, which can and did add up.
*If some of this doesn't make any sense, I'll fix it tomorrow... I just looked at the clock and it says 01:30 :o*
For starters, all cadets in AFJROTC spend three to four years learning about Aerospace, going more in depth then most to all cadets do in CAP. I personally remember going through much more then I've learned through the modules OR the C/Officer Aero book. What can we tap into this? How about one of the CAP Three Missions, Aerospace Education? While there are some Aerospace Ed Officers that know their stuff, there are many that hadn't had any formal standardized education in Aerospace like what you can get from AFJROTC. I know I have used a few lessons that I learned from my jrotc unit and did a class or two for my unit's Aero Ed Officer and if we can get more former cadets to do that, I think it can potentially be very beneficial to the CAP cadet program and Aero Ed mission. Total time usually spent each week: 2.5 to 3 hours
Now lets go into D&C. Like Aerospace, cadets in AFJROTC go through three to four years learning how to drill and lead others in drill in a standardized fashion. While you can say that we do it here in CAP, how many cadet or seniors have been taught to drill by 20+ year Veteran Air Force Master Sergeants or above? The point is, is that AFJROTC cadets are taught first hand by people that have been doing it for years and know it better then the back of their hands, AND they have been taught over and over and over until they too knew how to do it without thinking. How can this be used in CAP? Eh, showing new ways to teach drill, correcting ways people are doing it wrong, teaching other Senior Members how to drill properly perhaps? Total time usually spent each week: 30min to 1 hour
Leadership labs were fairly unique in AFJROTC. While it did go over the normal items, like communication, followership, styles of leadership, etc., it also went over college, how to balance a checkbook, how to get a loan, and much more. How can this add to CAP? Like many things, leadership varies from person to person. I lead differently from you, just as you lead differently from the next person. Getting a different look at how leadership was taught by others is beneficial and lessons learned by them could and usually are different then the lessons learned by you. Total time usually spent each week: 45min to 1 hour
While I had heard of the AFJROTC Encampments, I didn't have the benefit of actually participate in one so there isn't much I can tell you about it, other then that it is usually held during the summer and a week or so long (Very much like a CAP Encampment)
If an AFJROTC member did attend after school activities, there is much that he or she can bring to CAP. Things like Model Rocketry, Model Airplane, Drill Team(Both Armed and Unarmed), Color Guard, Cadet Leadership School, Physical Fitness Club, and Academics Club all have applicable use in CAP as a senior member or cadet. As a NYWg Drill Team member from 08, I, having already been on a drill team in AFJROTC, helped tremendously when designing a routine and building a team for region competition.
So there is a huge amount of experiences that an AFJROTC cadet can bring to CAP. There is actually a lot more I can write, however it is getting late and I'm having a little trouble thinking straight, so I'll be on later.... today I suppose if you want to chat some more what they can bring.
Quote from: Ozzy on June 28, 2009, 05:32:01 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on June 28, 2009, 02:32:29 AM
QuoteWell there are limitations on what 18 year olds can do in CAP, and I personally am not so sure putting them in cadet programs is best for them or the organization.
I didn't suggest that. To remind you the title of the thread talks about them as potential SENIOR members.
ANYWAYS, from my experiences from AFJROTC, I see many benefits that can be utilized if we could indeed get them. I wrote at the end of each little section the amount of time we usually gave each week. Since it is a high school program, it is every day, monday through friday, and one class period each day... which for my school ranged from 45min one year to 55min another. If you took into account after school activities like cadet leadership school, model rocketry, drill team, color guard, you could add probably at least one hour per day per activity, which can and did add up.
Thanks for your most detailed explanation :clap: of what in part our local real estate property taxes funds for this school program administered by a paid instructor staff (normally a retired officer & retired NCO).
HOWEVER, again I'd like to point out that I wouldn't expect former JR ROTC members to have much interest in CAP senior membership (at least right after graduation from high school), because most (if not all) have other more important things to do. Generally people that are interested in CAP can easily find any unit just by checking into the national website.
So far, no one has indicated that they've gotten ANY younger senior members that are former JR ROTC cadets.
RM
QuoteSo far, no one has indicated that they've gotten ANY younger senior members that are former JR ROTC cadets.
Well, given that we probably only keep 10% or less of our own cadets in the program once they graduate high school, I wasn't really expecting there to be many especially since it seems that no one has actively tried to recruit them. Again, this would be a long-term investment to bring CAP members when these former JROTC cadets get in their 30s or 40s and are settled down.
But, lets play with the numbers to see what might be possible in terms of recruitment soon after graduation. An average AF JROTC unit has 113 members (102K/900 units) and lets say that 25% graduate every year =28 graduates. I think it wouldn't be out of line to anticipate that if our conversion to senior member rate is only half that of our CAP cadets that we could get at least one or two of those 28 who would join CAP as a senior member soon after graduation.
I don't know of any CAP squadron that wouldn't love to have 1 or 2 new young senior members join up every year.
Now, another potential benefit of giving a CAP presentation based on recruitment of new senior members is that we might end up actually recruiting some parents of some of these JROTC cadets, especially those who are vets themselves if their kids go home that day and tell them about CAP.
The more I think about it, the more I'm convincing myself that it might be worth a try.
I know a AFJROTC instructor that is in CAP; I don't know of any former JROTC that joined CAP to become senior members. I just finished a joint bivouac with CAP and a local JROTC unit if we did more joint activities with JROTC we could probably get some to become seniors after school.
Quote from: notaNCO forever on June 28, 2009, 04:34:32 PM
I know a AFJROTC instructor that is in CAP; I don't know of any former JROTC that joined CAP to become senior members. I just finished a joint bivouac with CAP and a local JROTC unit if we did more joint activities with JROTC we could probably get some to become seniors after school.
See: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8248.0
You may get your wish. Generally senior members that normally go to CAP encampments take time off from work, the ROTC staff is getting paid by the AF. If the various wings can schedule joint activties it will probably be a win-win situation.
RM