According to the AF Times, the AF has been trying to limit what they describe as "anciliary training" on topics such as records management, the Privacy Act, combating terrorism, suicide prevention and sexual assault and harassment to no more than 90 minutes a year. They've been having trouble meeting that goal, but it seems like a good idea to me seeing some of the the ideas floating around CAP now.
Quote from: RiverAux on June 24, 2009, 03:27:34 AM
According to the AF Times, the AF has been trying to limit what they describe as "anciliary training" on topics such as records management, the Privacy Act, combating terrorism, suicide prevention and sexual assault and harassment to no more than 90 minutes a year. They've been having trouble meeting that goal, but it seems like a good idea to me seeing some of the the ideas floating around CAP now.
Uhh, the bolded option seems like maybe something they might want to dedicate more than 90 minutes to, considering that's their main job...
Good. The addition of lots of this type of training will have a negative impact on participation and the like. CAP should adopt this policy in some form, effective like...yesterday.
Quote from: BrandonKea on June 24, 2009, 03:35:56 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on June 24, 2009, 03:27:34 AM
According to the AF Times, the AF has been trying to limit what they describe as "anciliary training" on topics such as records management, the Privacy Act, combating terrorism, suicide prevention and sexual assault and harassment to no more than 90 minutes a year. They've been having trouble meeting that goal, but it seems like a good idea to me seeing some of the the ideas floating around CAP now.
Uhh, the bolded option seems like maybe something they might want to dedicate more than 90 minutes to, considering that's their main job...
Actually, it's not their main job. The "main job" of the Air Force is to defend the United States by achieving Air and Space Dominance.
The ancillery training they're talking about is the routine classes that you have to sit through every year.
(Like suicide prevention, protection of the president, laws of armed conflict, etc...)
My Reserve unit usually had to devote an entire weekend drill to getting all of these classes done.
These classes are generally very boring, but required nonetheless. We used to call them "sleepy slides" because of a certain affect they have on those forced into attending them.
CBTs (Computer Based Training) in the AF is such a joke. A serious joke. I would love to know what percentage of Airmen take it seriously and do it 100% the way it's supposed to be done; on your own without shared answers from your cohorts.
Mandatory CBTs like "Human Trafficing" are the biggest waste of Air Force time. Some CBTs like SERE 100, when taken legitimately, can take as long as 4 hours.
CBTs are the nerdy way to learn. Not that you learn anything, especially when you get your answers from your buddy or worse, your supervisor.
+1 :clap:
It sounds great because you can do away with the instructors and the schoolhouse. The big negative is that the level of learning most people achieve is fairly limited and short term. It works really well for the people who could just buy the book and self-teach a subject. However, a lot of people don't self-teach very well and the quality of a lot of the CBT material I have seen is not that good to begin with.
OMG! Don't let real training get in the way of annual briefings!
Bad news guys -- some folks on the PAO email discussion group are talking about a required internet-based course on the use of social media (facebook, etc) by CAP members. Since there are some CAP heavy hitters that participate in that group, there is slightly more chance of it being picked up on than your average CAPTalk proposal.
We better get my proposal here implemented before they get theirs....
Can't we make that an accepted use policy instead of a training requirement?
Quote from: RiverAux on June 25, 2009, 07:16:05 PM
Bad news guys -- some folks on the PAO email discussion group are talking about a required internet-based course on the use of social media (facebook, etc) by CAP members. Since there are some CAP heavy hitters that participate in that group, there is slightly more chance of it being picked up on than your average CAPTalk proposal.
We better get my proposal here implemented before they get theirs....
Say goodbye to even more of the silver-haired crowd if that happens.
The Navy recently announced that it sound CBT severely lacking to such a degre that it was turning out recruits that could not do the job. The Navy commented that some of the recuruits were so poorly trained they didn't know when to salute (sounds like a CAPTalk discussion doesn't it!!!)
I've got to chime in here, because as a reservist, we're kind of at the semi-center of the issue.
Yes, we have lots of ancillary training, the flavor has changed little over the last 20 years for me.
But the demands have increased tenfold. There are about 20 different courses that have to be done yearly, if you include specialized ones like Haz Cargo and AFSC special ones.
For the AD folks, I don't really have much sympathy. They have 365 days per year. When I was AD, there was plenty of time available in the FY.
But ANG and Reservists are in a harder position. We have 48 days in the year to get everything completed, not counting the repeats due to a handfull of courses required within XX days of deployment. Many of these courses are not available from home (CAC Card login only).
An average drill weekend for me (Staff officer) is at least ten hours per day of fire stomping to get the high priority items done (ex: Security clearances, medical, dental, shots, overdue administrative actions, reports, ops plans, etc..). Enlisted members are overwhelmed with recurring AFSC training as it is.
Some of the training courses are several hours each. One in particular is a grueling 6 to 8 hours.
I'm happy to see the consolidation. We can spend more time concentrating on the mission at hand and less time burning away drill weekends on AFIDL.
Quote from: PHall on June 24, 2009, 04:34:31 AM
Actually, it's not their main job. The "main job" of the Air Force is to defend the United States by achieving Air and Space Dominance.
The ancillery training they're talking about is the routine classes that you have to sit through every year.
(Like suicide prevention, protection of the president, laws of armed conflict, etc...)
My Reserve unit usually had to devote an entire weekend drill to getting all of these classes done.
And don't forget the herding cats you have to do for members absent that weekend. Even with the 4 day "Superdrill" we recently started to get it all done, it's still a mess.
We had an ACC UCI/ORI this year. Yeah, talk about high suck factor.
Quote from: desertengineer1 on June 26, 2009, 02:07:34 PM
Quote from: PHall on June 24, 2009, 04:34:31 AM
Actually, it's not their main job. The "main job" of the Air Force is to defend the United States by achieving Air and Space Dominance.
The ancillary training they're talking about is the routine classes that you have to sit through every year.
(Like suicide prevention, protection of the president, laws of armed conflict, etc...)
My Reserve unit usually had to devote an entire weekend drill to getting all of these classes done.
And don't forget the herding cats you have to do for members absent that weekend. Even with the 4 day "Superdrill" we recently started to get it all done, it's still a mess.
We had an ACC UCI/ORI this year. Yeah, talk about high suck factor.
Fortunately our Wing was big enough that we had a "A" and "B" UTA each month. Made rescheduling folks a bit easier.
Quote from: desertengineer1 on June 26, 2009, 02:02:44 PM
For the AD folks, I don't really have much sympathy. They have 365 days per year. When I was AD, there was plenty of time available in the FY.
An average drill weekend for me (Staff officer) is at least ten hours per day of fire stomping to get the high priority items done (ex: Security clearances, medical, dental, shots, overdue administrative actions, reports, ops plans, etc..). Enlisted members are overwhelmed with recurring AFSC training as it is.
Some of the training courses are several hours each. One in particular is a grueling 6 to 8 hours.
I have no sympathy whatsoever for Reservists or Guard personnel. That's silly about your 10 hour work days. When you folks are at drill you should have to work at least 12 hours each day so the taxpayers get their monies worth out of you. Reservists & Guardsman make very good money while they are at training on their weekend UTA's. It's the motherlode of cash if you are a flight crew member. Just check out the pay tables. Remember that a drill period is 4 hours, and they are getting paid 8 hours per day
http://www.airforcetimes.com/projects/money/pay_charts/2009/drill/0_20/ Multiply those figures by 4 to get the weekend pay. That why we should ensure they work a minimum of 12 hours each day. Plenty of time to get that ancillary training done. If you can't than the other option for the taxpayers is to have you do some points only training days for that ancillary training (e.g. no money being paid but points count towards retirement) ;D
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015/quote]
I Reservists & Guardsman make very good money while they are at training on their weekend UTA's. It's the motherlode of cash if you are a flight crew member. Just check out the pay tables. Remember that a drill period is 4 hours, and they are getting paid 8 hours per day
http://www.airforcetimes.com/projects/money/pay_charts/2009/drill/0_20/ Multiply those figures by 4 to get the weekend pay. That why we should ensure they work a minimum of 12 hours each day. Plenty of time to get that ancillary training done. If you can't than the other option for the taxpayers is to have you do some points only training days for that ancillary training (e.g. no money being paid but points count towards retirement) ;D
RM
OH NO :-[ APOLOGIES TO ALL !!!! Regarding the pay chart, my serious error, it includes 4 drill period. So therefore, I change my stance to basically 10 hour days for the reservists & guardsman. As far as points only training, I guess that also has to be budgeted, but looks to me like a good way to cover ancillary training. ;D
RM
Radioman, have you ever been a drilling reservist or guardsman? It doesn't sound like it.
I have been on both sides and I have said time and time again that being on active duty is one of the best compensated jobs one can have in our country.
The reserve components is a mix of all walks of life, just like our military as a whole. The difference is, everyone on AD gets compensated the same (based on rank and TIS, of course). Reservists, are college students, work at fast food joints, are professionals in the private sector and often make huge sacrifces just to show up to drill weekends. Many lose money when on two weeks of annual training or at mandatory schools for up to 6 months. If you're lucky, you break even.
I agree, I feel that I am compensated well for what I do in the Guard. I get paid to shoot, teach and hang out with some good dudes. But for all that computer based training, it is a genuine waste of my time. I NEVER get time to accomplish that training at drill. NEVER! I do most of it from home where I am not compensated in the least. I use MY time to do it. AD folks are given time in their day to accomplish such tasks. Just like PT. I don't get paid to exercise. I allot an hour a day of MY schedule to work out. I pay MY money to go to a gym.
Our drill weekends are often 12 hour days, sometimes overnight in the field. If you think we're compensated nicely, I would have to disagree with you.
I thought this thread was supposed to be about CAP and how "ancillary training" is lame?
Quote from: Stonewall on June 27, 2009, 02:51:40 PM
Radioman, have you ever been a drilling reservist or guardsman? It doesn't sound like it.
I have been on both sides and I have said time and time again that being on active duty is one of the best compensated jobs one can have in our country.
I NEVER get time to accomplish that training at drill. NEVER! I do most of it from home where I am not compensated in the least. I use MY time to do it. AD folks are given time in their day to accomplish such tasks. Just like PT. I don't get paid to exercise. I allot an hour a day of MY schedule to work out. I pay MY money to go to a gym.
Our drill weekends are often 12 hour days, sometimes overnight in the field. If you think we're compensated nicely, I would have to disagree with you.
Nope 20+ years of active duty.
Agree now with the total force concept that guard & reserve pull a lot of active duty time supporting Bush's & now Obama's "war on terrorism" & it is less expensive overall to do it this way.
Personnel on active duty (active duty units) also have unique challenges that reservists/guardsmen don't have.
Last time I looked reserve & guard personnel do get military retirement, so all this whining about all that irrelevant training and compensated versus uncompensated time etc just doesn't fly with me or most other taxpayers. I would think that IF it is so overwhelming all the guard & reserve people would just quit & do something else. (overall retention figures are pretty good at least for AF, ANG, AFRC)
Getting back on subject --- with CAP members, it is "always on the members uncompensated time" to do this CAP required training.
I think it's great that CAP developing on line computer based training that can be done at the members pace, at home etc. :clap: Attending in person classroom type CAP training, is difficult for many & also the quality of that trainining (presentation) varies greatly :-[
In my opinion it's important to differentiate volunteer CAP services versus "compensated" volunteer service in the armed forces, whether on "real" active duty, guard/reserve special tours of active duty, or just the run of the mill reserve/guard training weekends.
RM
Dang a gardsman gets p[aid four times as much for a weekend that I got paid for a full month on active duty. Talk about inflation LOL
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 27, 2009, 02:09:47 PM
I have no sympathy whatsoever for Reservists or Guard personnel. That's silly about your 10 hour work days. When you folks are at drill you should have to work at least 12 hours each day so the taxpayers get their monies worth out of you. Reservists & Guardsman make very good money while they are at training on their weekend UTA's. It's the motherlode of cash if you are a flight crew member. Just check out the pay tables. Remember that a drill period is 4 hours, and they are getting paid 8 hours per day
http://www.airforcetimes.com/projects/money/pay_charts/2009/drill/0_20/ Multiply those figures by 4 to get the weekend pay. That why we should ensure they work a minimum of 12 hours each day. Plenty of time to get that ancillary training done. If you can't than the other option for the taxpayers is to have you do some points only training days for that ancillary training (e.g. no money being paid but points count towards retirement) ;D
RM
There are so many things I want to say here... Will try to be as troll resistant as possible.
First, it's not about the money. You, Mr 20 years of AD should understand that. If someone comes to me wanting to join the service for money, I find a nice way to ask them to reconsider. If I wanted to make money, there are at least 100 options available elsewhere. It's about being part of something bigger than a checking account.
Second, my post was not intended to elicit simpathy of any kind. It was to clarify to non ANG/Reservists or folks that may not understand the details that the training disconnection is a bit more complicated than face value. It starts with available time compared to required tasks. We're working at at least a 1:3 ratio at my unit.
And finally...
If you want to sit behind a desk, throw around the "20 years AD" attitude, I would prefer you direct that at me. We'll have a nice debate. But I take offense at your being an [censored] to reservists as a whole.
I've attended too many memorial services and funerals in the last 5 years, in uniform, for members in your "I have no sympathy" category, and was in country when countless numbers of your "Paid too much" category were chewed to pieces outside the FOB gates.
You want to come after me personally, fine. We'll have a private chat. But when you go after everyone as a whole, you're going after members of my unit. I pray to God that every one of them I send out the door to the AOR has the support, training, and luck to come home to their families in the same condition that they left.
IMHO, we can't pay them as much as they deserve.
You should know better than to post something like that.
Just because the filter doesn't catch it doesn't mean you should use it... and dollar signs don't make it ok either. -
MIKE
Ding. Thread done.