Check out CAP Annual Financial Report preamble of missions
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/Financial_Report_May_2009_lo_65556A701B1EB.pdf
See page 15 & the picture & caption on the right side.
"..CAP members are equipped with extraction tools & survival gear appropriate to the terrain & climate..."
So I've got to ask what CAP ground team has appropriate training as well as appropriate cutting tools to enter crashed aircraft? What CAP ground teams have authorized snowmobiles & ATV's to get to crash sites quickly in the snow/other terrain (thought it was against regulation to have these tools)? >:(
Not trying to cause problems, but statements like this are based upon what facts ??? that are reported in ANY report to higher headquarters ???
Also how many of those people in that picture are CAP members because NONE of them are in the proper safety outer guard orange reflective vest :-\ (frankly I don't care if they have a CAP uniform on at all due to the weather, BUT the safety vest is the important thing & even if it had that emergency services Pluto patch on it that would be great!!
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 11, 2009, 11:37:36 PM
Check out CAP Annual Financial Report preamble of missions
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/Financial_Report_May_2009_lo_65556A701B1EB.pdf
See page 15 & the picture & caption on the right side.
"..CAP members are equipped with extraction tools & survival gear appropriate to the terrain & climate..."
So I've got to ask what CAP ground team has appropriate training as well as appropriate cutting tools to enter crashed aircraft? What CAP ground teams have authorized snowmobiles & ATV's to get to crash sites quickly in the snow/other terrain (thought it was against regulation to have these tools)? >:(
Not trying to cause problems, but statements like this are based upon what facts ??? that are reported in ANY report to higher headquarters ???
Also how many of those people in that picture are CAP members because NONE of them are in the proper safety outer guard orange reflective vest :-\ (frankly I don't care if they have a CAP uniform on at all due to the weather, BUT the safety vest is the important thing & even if it had that emergency services Pluto patch on it that would be great!!
RM
Maybe they're going to equip us all with DualSaws so we can slice through stuff...
This does seem a little crazy. I also noticed that on the cover of the report is an AFA Cadet. Maybe a prior CAP Cadet, but we'll never know...
Quote from: BrandonKea on June 11, 2009, 11:50:14 PM
This does seem a little crazy. I also noticed that on the cover of the report is an AFA Cadet. Maybe a prior CAP Cadet, but we'll never know...
I'm pretty sure that she was profiled in a recent issue of Volunteer.
Quote from: NC Hokie on June 12, 2009, 04:29:49 AM
Quote from: BrandonKea on June 11, 2009, 11:50:14 PM
This does seem a little crazy. I also noticed that on the cover of the report is an AFA Cadet. Maybe a prior CAP Cadet, but we'll never know...
I'm pretty sure that she was profiled in a recent issue of Volunteer.
I knew we had a grad shaking hands with Bush, that's in there somewhere. This girl looks...different, and it might be a totally different cadet. The pic on the back (possibly the same pic just wrapped) is more misleading...
Our unit has an annual SABER exercise where we are inserted/extracted via Chinooks to around 8000 feet in the Sierra's to practice high-altitude SAR. We generally have a couple of scenarios we play out. One is for orienteering, compass reading, direction finding and getting from one place to another on a map dealing with natural barriers. The second day consists of SAR for missing/injured hunter/hiker with the intent on extraction via helicopter. This past year was my first and it was an incredible experience. Very cold, night time temps down to 4 degrees with daytime around 20. Sleeping outdoors in tents and roughing it with MRE's and whatnot. The big kicker is really the altitude change being that we live around 70 ft ASL. Trekking through dense woods in rough terrain is enough without thin air to slow you down. The cadets absolutely love it and spend the next year talking about it to the new cadets or those who didn't go.
While the capabilities of Lt Domke's GT are indeed impressive, i don't think they are typical (in fact, they sound highly specialized & trained!),
The details offered by National seem to describe a very limited number of CAP GTs...at best.
I know... it doesn't help all that much either when CAL OES won't use us. Even with our specialized skills they send in local sheriffs. It would be great to get boots on the ground for an actual mission. Even if it was just an assist...
Quote from: Lt Domke on June 13, 2009, 05:41:07 AM
I know... it doesn't help all that much either when CAL OES won't use us. Even with our specialized skills they send in local sheriffs. It would be great to get boots on the ground for an actual mission. Even if it was just an assist...
Who responds to what, is generally determined by a state SAR plan, that likely has a state law that requires compliance.
For the most part CAP isn't seen as a ground s&r resource. We just don't have the equipment resources (e.g. snowmobiles & ATV's as examples) to perform these very time sensitive tasks in a timely manner. :-[ Sheriffs' Departments, Fish/Game Wardens, Environmental Police, generally have the necessary equipment as well as are very familiar with the areas they patrol in.
However, airborne/aircraft wise, coupled with our limited radio system, we are capable of performing significant s&r support to authorities. Most senior members ES wise have an interest in the airborne side of the operation.
Generally CAP just can't seem to get the necessary interest in large numbers of "qualified" (physically capable & properly trained/certified) senior member personnel to make the GT presence more credible. IMHO GT is primarily a cadet training & retention tool in CAP.
RM
QuoteFor the most part CAP isn't seen as a ground s&r resource. We just don't have the equipment resources (e.g. snowmobiles & ATV's as examples) to perform these very time sensitive tasks in a timely manner
While it is true that we don't have snowmobiles and ATVs, that equipment is only useful in certain kinds of ground SAR. And it is true that we aren't generally trained for highly specialized aspects of SAR such as high angle rescue.
However, we are the largest ground SAR organization in the country and I daresay that in many states we have more ground SAR-trained personnel than just about anyone else.
I blame the fact that we're rarely used for that purpose primarily on CAP for not working more with the local and state agencies to advertise the capabilities that we do have.
That being said, I think the statement in the report is misleading about extrication tools as CAP GTs are not normally trained in their use. The part about survival gear is ok.
Extraction != Extrication
QuoteExtraction, in tactical combat and special operations use, is the process of removing constituents from a targeted site when it is considered imperative that they be immediately relocated out of a hostile environment and taken to a secured area under friendly control.
QuoteExtrication is the process of removing a person from a vehicle that has been involved in an accident when conventional means of exit are impossible or unadvisable.
Civil Air Patrol ground teams are trained for the former, but not for that later. You will also note that the photo is of a ground team participating in a litter carry, and not removing someone from an aircraft.
Judging by them saying the use of specialized equiptment they mean rescue extraction, which also applies to urban search and rescue(like building collapse)
So, we're really bragging that our ground teams know how to use a litter? Thats the truth, but not anything to brag about.
Even then, I'm not willing to say that all our ground teams are equipped with litters either, especially those really appropriate for long-distance use in wilderness situations.
Quote from: RiverAux on June 14, 2009, 03:05:41 AMEven then, I'm not willing to say that all our ground teams are equipped with litters either, especially those really appropriate for long-distance use in wilderness situations.
That's because our extraction operations aren't long-distance. Our training is to locate the crash scene, perform life saving first aid up to our training level, establish a helicopter landing zone, and then assist the helicopter rescue crew in litter carrying the injured person(s) to the helicopter.
In such cases, the litter will be provided by the helicopter rescue team, and Civil Air Patrol will simply assist.
I'm not sure there is a need or want for anything beyond that except maybe some work in high angle rescue.
QuoteThat's because our extraction operations aren't long-distance.
Really? I wasn't aware that there was a limitation in our regulations somewhere about how far we're allowed to carry someone on a litter. I also wasn't aware that a helicopter was required to show up before we exceed that limit.... (hint - sarcasm).
Seriously though. You describe the ideal situation, not necessarily what can happen in real life. For example, our training requirement is to carry a litter 300 m. I can think of many, many, many places where you'll have to go more than 300 m to find a helicopter LZ (and that assumes you can get a helicopter).
And a litter isn't mandatory equipment for CAP ground teams (Ref GT Task O-0006).
Quote from: RiverAux on June 14, 2009, 09:37:07 PM
QuoteThat's because our extraction operations aren't long-distance.
Really? I wasn't aware that there was a limitation in our regulations somewhere about how far we're allowed to carry someone on a litter. I also wasn't aware that a helicopter was required to show up before we exceed that limit.... (hint - sarcasm).
Seriously though. You describe the ideal situation, not necessarily what can happen in real life. For example, our training requirement is to carry a litter 300 m. I can think of many, many, many places where you'll have to go more than 300 m to find a helicopter LZ (and that assumes you can get a helicopter).
And a litter isn't mandatory equipment for CAP ground teams (Ref GT Task O-0006).
Rule: The nearest HLZ is always farther than you want to walk. ;D
And the ELT is not always where the becker puts it.