At a recent political event, I noticed (as usual) that many of the potential candidates are sure to make note of their community service in various organizations or of their military experience- some even having photos of themselves in uniform on their campaign materials/websites.
I remember some time ago, there were a few CAP members who were criticized for noting their CAP involvement on campaign material, and for having a photo of themselves in uniform. This leads me to a question...
If a CAP member opts to run for political office, is it appropriate/allowed for the member to note their CAP service/involvement and use a photo of themselves in uniform in their campaign materials? (as long as it is clear that they are not trying to claim RM service)
Likewise, is it appropriate/allowed for a CAP Commander (of any level) to give their support for a specific candidate?
Quote from: DBlair on May 27, 2009, 05:56:24 PM
If a CAP member opts to run for political office, is it appropriate/allowed for the member to note their CAP service/involvement and use a photo of themselves in uniform in their campaign materials? (as long as it is clear that they are not trying to claim RM service)
In my opinion; noting membership in CAP is good and expected. Using photos of themselves in uniform is not good. I would say the same for a candidate's military service.
Quote from: DBlair on May 27, 2009, 05:56:24 PM
Likewise, is it appropriate/allowed for a CAP Commander (of any level) to give their support for a specific candidate?
Well, I support various candidates for various offices and I am a commander. I believe that that is ok.
It is NOT ok to endorse a candidate in your role as commander, or to use CAP in any way to support a candidate.
Quote from: DBlair on May 27, 2009, 05:56:24 PM
If a CAP member opts to run for political office, is it appropriate/allowed for the member to note their CAP service/involvement and use a photo of themselves in uniform in their campaign materials? (as long as it is clear that they are not trying to claim RM service)
Yes, in the same vein that it makes up a part of the "person" - no different than military service, Boy Scouts, etc. (we can leave the "playing on the association" for another thread).
Quote from: DBlair on May 27, 2009, 05:56:24 PM
Likewise, is it appropriate/allowed for a CAP Commander (of any level) to give their support for a specific candidate?
As a private citizen, yes. As a member of CAP, in any capacity, no - this is specifically against regs.
Those that raised the issue of incumbents requesting honor guards, etc., that's a different animal - incumbents may be "candidates" but they are also elected offcials representing the government at their respective level.
That's one of the reasons incumbents have an inherent advantage, and is part of the game.
Quote from: DBlair on May 27, 2009, 05:56:24 PM
At a recent political event, I noticed (as usual) that many of the potential candidates are sure to make note of their community service in various organizations or of their military experience- some even having photos of themselves in uniform on their campaign materials/websites.
I remember some time ago, there were a few CAP members who were criticized for noting their CAP involvement on campaign material, and for having a photo of themselves in uniform. This leads me to a question...
If a CAP member opts to run for political office, is it appropriate/allowed for the member to note their CAP service/involvement and use a photo of themselves in uniform in their campaign materials? (as long as it is clear that they are not trying to claim RM service)
Likewise, is it appropriate/allowed for a CAP Commander (of any level) to give their support for a specific candidate?
You must be referring to the former Spaatz cadet turned Congressional candidate up in the Pacific Northwest. ::)
Johnny Y's opinion: Noting CAP as community service in your campaign is one thing, passing yourself off as a military and national security expert because you were a CAP cadet and talked to a couple generals about it is another.
Pictures of yourself in uniform on campaign material? I wouldn't, but then I'm one of the few who believe that military service, no matter how successful or distinguished, doesn't necessarily make one a good statesman.
Quote from: DBlair on May 27, 2009, 05:56:24 PM
If a CAP member opts to run for political office, is it appropriate/allowed for the member to note their CAP service/involvement and use a photo of themselves in uniform in their campaign materials? (as long as it is clear that they are not trying to claim RM service)
I think it's perfectly acceptable to note your service. Like Eclipse said, it's part of who you are. I would also say that having a picture of you in a uniform as part of your campaign material, and this includes Active Duty military, National Gaurd, SDF, et al., is inappropriate.
Quote from: DBlair on May 27, 2009, 05:56:24 PM
Likewise, is it appropriate/allowed for a CAP Commander (of any level) to give their support for a specific candidate?
As A CAP Commander, absolutely not. As any member of CAP, absolutely not, this one is actually in the regs somewhere I believe. As just a private citizen without claiming any ties to CAP or the military, absolutely yes.
Now here's another question, what if the CAP Member running for office, any office, is also a CAP Commander, should they step down? Should they only step down if there is a direct conflict of interest such as LEPC Chair or County Judge?
Frankly, I think it is very appropriate for a candidate to not his CAP service on his campaign literature. Service in CAP suggests a committment to the country and the community, and should be viewed favorably.
Pictures in uniform? Why not? If you mention CAP in print, why not back up the text with photos? Frankly, I don't see any difference.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on May 28, 2009, 02:35:01 PM
Frankly, I think it is very appropriate for a candidate to not his CAP service on his campaign literature. Service in CAP suggests a committment to the country and the community, and should be viewed favorably.
Pictures in uniform? Why not? If you mention CAP in print, why not back up the text with photos? Frankly, I don't see any difference.
I agree with the above....
Quote from: jeders on May 28, 2009, 01:53:21 PM
Now here's another question, what if the CAP Member running for office, any office, is also a CAP Commander, should they step down? Should they only step down if there is a direct conflict of interest such as LEPC Chair or County Judge?
I dont see a conflict in running for any office. Depending on the office won a conflict of interest may be perceived by some looking for one so I might recommend stepping down from command... again depending on the office...
The fact that the person is still a member of CAP can be seen as a conflict of interest to those who want to see it that way... That fact that anyone has done anything in their life could also be a conflict... Because you were a lawyer/doctor/poor person/rich person/ a human and not a Polar Bear or Grey wolf someone can say you have a conflict of interest.... [reaching I know... but whats the difference?]
In terms of a potential conflict, I don't think a person's status as a squadron or group commander is any different than any other member because only the wing commander is a corporate officer.
And FWIW, I am an elected official with over a million consitituents. I was public about my CAP involvement during my campaign, but I don't think it cost me too many votes. 8)
Ned Lee
Former Legal Officer
I would say pictures or a mention are all acceptable. Look at how many memberships CAP gives away to politicians. At one time 25% of the members in Indiana Wing were from the legislative squadron. Why would you not mention that or have a picture for proof.
We had a local state rep run a few years back. He was a former Navy JAG. He had a picture in his full Navy Class A get-up on the info that he put out. He won. The biggest comment I heard about his uniform pictures was from the women. They all thought he looked cute ;D
Quote from: mashcraft on May 29, 2009, 12:27:44 AM
I would say pictures or a mention are all acceptable.
We had a local state rep run a few years back. He was a former Navy JAG. He had a picture in his full Navy Class A get-up on the info that he put out.
There's a VERY big difference between someone who served in the military and some "wanna bee" (military) guy or gal who runs for a political office and posts a picture of themselves wear a CAP blue uniform, which GIVES THE INAPPROPRIATE appearance of being in the military. Most civilians who see CAP senior member personnel in blues or camo bdu's don't have enough smarts to know the difference.
Definitely sleezy >:(
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 29, 2009, 02:01:20 AM
Quote from: mashcraft on May 29, 2009, 12:27:44 AM
I would say pictures or a mention are all acceptable.
We had a local state rep run a few years back. He was a former Navy JAG. He had a picture in his full Navy Class A get-up on the info that he put out.
There's a VERY big difference between someone who served in the military and some "wanna bee" (military) guy or gal who runs for a political office and posts a picture of themselves wear a CAP blue uniform, which GIVES THE INAPPROPRIATE appearance of being in the military. Most civilians who see CAP senior member personnel in blues or camo bdu's don't have enough smarts to know the difference.
Definitely sleezy >:(
RM
Fecal material from the male of the bovine species. ^
If a guy is in CAP and serving as a volunteer, he is free to state that. In fact, as an elector, I WANT to know what potential officeholders do in their spare time.
If some hammerhead civilian does not know what CAP is, that is HIS problem, not mine and not the politician's.
And I look cute in uniform too.
I wear a CAP uniform and don't "wanna bee" military (or anything else). That's a pretty broad brush you're painting our members with.
Don't have a problem with mentioning it. Would have a little bit of a problem with using a photo in CAP uniform if the person is still a current member.
I'd still apply CAPM 39-1 Table 1-1. even if it is just a picture.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 29, 2009, 02:01:20 AM
Quote from: mashcraft on May 29, 2009, 12:27:44 AM
I would say pictures or a mention are all acceptable.
We had a local state rep run a few years back. He was a former Navy JAG. He had a picture in his full Navy Class A get-up on the info that he put out.
There's a VERY big difference between someone who served in the military and some "wanna bee" (military) guy or gal who runs for a political office and posts a picture of themselves wear a CAP blue uniform, which GIVES THE INAPPROPRIATE appearance of being in the military. Most civilians who see CAP senior member personnel in blues or camo bdu's don't have enough smarts to know the difference.
Definitely sleezy >:(
RM
Have you considered anger management? Seriously...
Quote from: MIKE on May 29, 2009, 03:50:28 AM
I'd still apply CAPM 39-1 Table 1-1. even if it is just a picture.
I would non-concur on that.
It is one thing to give a speech while wearing the uniform, and therefore imply official endorsement of your position or candidacy. It is another thing to say "I serve in the CAP" and accompany that statement with a picture or with video in uniform.
As long as CAP service is mentioned and pictured as a part of the candidates background I don't see a problem. He can also say "I have worked for 25 years as a fender-rubber at Joe's Car Wash" and show a picture of that... or "I am happily married to the former Susie Sweathog, and we have 14 lovely children," with a family picture of him, Susie, and all the kids cleaned up.
Thanks to everyone for their comments.
Another related question is whether it is appropriate for a CAP member (who is also a political Candidate) to seek support (votes, etc) from other CAP members, and if so, what methods would be appropriate in order to not cross the line of suggesting 'official' support?
It certainly shouldn't be something that should be done before, during, or after a meeting while you're still in uniform. I'd even be somewhat leery of sending an email for this purpose to people I've met and mostly interact with through CAP. It just cuts things a little too close for my taste.
Now, I wouldn't think it would be a problem asking people from CAP to vote for me if I regularly interact with them outside of CAP on a personal, non-CAP-business, basis.
We had a case of a wing staff member running for the state assembly sending campaign info (including fund raisers!) over the wing email list, which I felt was improper.
In a case like this, I think the most that should go out to the wing is a general notice along the lines of "Captain X is running for the legislature, for more info see his web site".
If even that....
Quote from: ZigZag911 on June 10, 2009, 05:02:46 AM
We had a case of a wing staff member running for the state assembly sending campaign info (including fund raisers!) over the wing email list, which I felt was improper.
In a case like this, I think the most that should go out to the wing is a general notice along the lines of "Captain X is running for the legislature, for more info see his web site".
If even that....
I think even that would be inappropriate. If you have friends in CAP, and you use their e-mail casually, then maybe, but to blow up the email list smacks of abuse.
Brandon, I'm inclined to agree with you....it's one thing to approach CAP friends "off line" so to speak, but campaigning or fundraising thru official media strikes me as wrong.
Now, if the member actually gets elected, then thats NEWS, fit for wing newsletter.
I would have to agree that using the Wing email list would probably be inappropriate- any use would have to be carefully worded to not seem like an endorsement. Likewise, announcing candidacy or doing anything while wearing a uniform would obviously not be allowed.
That being said, though, I wonder if there is a way to inform (not endorse) unit, group, or wing membership of one of their own running for office. I would think that many would be interested in such a thing, but the difficulty is in exactly how to do it and what is appropriate.
Quote from: DBlair on June 11, 2009, 06:39:18 PM
That being said, though, I wonder if there is a way to inform (not endorse) unit, group, or wing membership of one of their own running for office. I would think that many would be interested in such a thing, but the difficulty is in exactly how to do it and what is appropriate.
I would suggest doing what all politicians do. Get out there and meet people. Go to local meetings, meet with the commanders, ask to be introduced to the squadron. Meeting a candidate in person is much more impacting than seeing their name on an e-mail.
Yea, I was thinking about this idea of usual campaigning (getting out and meeting people, etc) and how it can be applied to CAP, but I wasn't sure if it would be appropriate/allowed for a candidate (who is also a CAP member) to be introduced to a unit, speak to them, and so forth, as this seems to be a complicated gray area of what is appropriate in order to not seem like an official endorsement.
Quote from: DBlair on June 11, 2009, 07:10:28 PM
Yea, I was thinking about this idea of usual campaigning (getting out and meeting people, etc) and how it can be applied to CAP, but I wasn't sure if it would be appropriate/allowed for a candidate (who is also a CAP member) to be introduced to a unit, speak to them, and so forth, as this seems to be a complicated gray area of what is appropriate in order to not seem like an official endorsement.
What endorsment would there be. If a local campaigning politician wants to come to a meeting, I would have no problem with that if I were a squadron commander. If that member also happens to be in CAP, and the politician mentions that, there's no endorsement there either.
For a Squadron Open House a year or so ago, we invited a number of politicians. (Only one showed up, BTW.) Ironically, since we are in a one-party dominant area, we made sure to request a prominent member of another party from out of state, who just happened to hold a CAP position.
While some members make no bones about their political views in private conversation, the squadron itself should be free of politics.
As for the use of CAP as a political resource, it should be within reason. Mention the service with CAP. Don't make it look like the CAP is endorsing anyone. Even if most people don't pay attention, it makes you look quite bad.
Interesting conversation. I think that it doesnt matter if you are a Commander or a regular member. everyone has their politicalbeliefs. i wouldnt go around expressing tham at meetings. I learneda long time ago that when in mixed compamy its not good to talk politics or religion.
I mean think about it. If I have strong political feelings about a particular party (which I do) and I KNOW my commander has strong feelings about the opposite party, and he constantly berates or belittles my party of choice, iwill look at him differently and feel that because we disagree on that subject he will look at me unfavorable. The same with religion.
Quote from: flyguy06 on June 30, 2009, 11:25:35 AM
Interesting conversation. I think that it doesnt matter if you are a Commander or a regular member. everyone has their politicalbeliefs. i wouldnt go around expressing tham at meetings. I learneda long time ago that when in mixed compamy its not good to talk politics or religion.
I mean think about it. If I have strong political feelings about a particular party (which I do) and I KNOW my commander has strong feelings about the opposite party, and he constantly berates or belittles my party of choice, iwill look at him differently and feel that because we disagree on that subject he will look at me unfavorable. The same with religion.
In my personal opinion it's okay to talk and even argue politics/religion. People just need to learn to respect other peoples opinions and not let ideas interfere with personal relations. For example I'm a republican and live in Connecticut; if I let disagreements about politics get in the way of any sort of relationships I would have a hard time getting along with most people I meet. I don't think CAP isnecasarilly the best place to get into political debates, but people should at least be allowed to voice their opinion. As members of CAP we should be teaching respect for others opinions because it is an important trait for a leader to have.
^You have to remember that people have pretty strong bonds to their political and social beliefs. They are your beliefs because you think they're right.
The organization doesn't want people to a) take sides and b) have people discussing politics, religion, etc because it gives the impression that those could be the organizations views.
At the same time, it could very well alienate many people from joining the organization because of some people's overly vocal views on things.
Best to leave the politics and other opinions at home.
As politically-passionate as I am, I believe that overt political preaching while at a CAP function or otherwise in uniform is a bad move. Granted, I know a political comment here and there among those known to be politically like-minded is sure to surface- especially as certain hot button issues are at the forefront of America's focus. That being said, I think a politically-charged discussion should be kept out of CAP as it can sour opinions of each other and make CAP events/meetings uncomfortable if a member's opinion is to the contrary.
All this being said, I believe that if a CAP member is running for office and desires to speak to CAP groups (such as units, etc) as a Candidate and not as a CAP member, then it should be done out of uniform and the topics should be related to those of concern or interest to CAP, and not just some random spew of political bashing/rhetoric.
I think it would be great for Squadrons and Wings to promote (not endorse) the fact that one of their own is running for office as I'm sure members would be interested that there is a CAP-friendly candidate on the ballot, as long as it doesn't become an 'official' endorsement as that could be problematic.
It's clearly OK to discuss religion in CAP, we have chaplains after all. Political discourse can certainly be permitted within the confines of good taste and civility. To suggest we should avoid these issues like the plague makes no sense to me. In my experience, my "contact time" in CAP is too scarce to squander it talking about politics. If there is an issue particularly relevant to CAP, then go for it.
CAP itself needs to remain carefully neutral. None of us wants to get spanked by the current powers that be because we are perceived to support the opposition. However I see no problem with a candidate mentioning his/her involvment with CAP, provided it is only used as an illustration of their community service.
Quote from: wuzafuzz on June 30, 2009, 06:01:50 PM
It's clearly OK to discuss religion in CAP, we have chaplains after all.
There is a difference between having Chaplains and discussing religion. The military has chaplains, but isn't "allowed" to support a specific one or force people to participate in group prayers, etc.
Having our Chaplains proselytizing as a function of involvement in CAP isn't right and our organization shouldn't condone or support that function. However, if someone who is a member wishes to have a discussion with the chaplain in regards to their faith, that is another thing.
There isn't anything in any of our actual missions that would require discussion of religion or political stance in any way shape or form. IMO, advocating or encouraging such discussion would cause more harm than good.
When I started my job, our code of conduct includes a statement about discussing religion and politics at work - there is a reason.