I was looking up information just now on the California State Military Reserve, and thought of a question. Lets say you're a member of the CASMR, and a firefighter with the San Diego Fire Department. Rewind to the firestorm in 2007, and all of the SDFD is being utilized to fight fires, but the CASMR has called you to state active duty.
In this type of scenario, who would you have to go with? Your paying employer, or the state militia? I know that going on a CAP "deployment" isn't anything like being called to State Active Duty, but can't find anything on the subject if both of your jobs (paying and volunteer) are being used for the same thing.
It would depend on how the CASMR was called out. Most of the time SDF members are more or less activated on a voluntary basis. However, as part of the state militia the Governor has the authority to order them to active duty just like the do the National Guard. In that case, you better go show up where the Governor tells you or you could go to jail. Most states extend the same job protections to SDF members as they do for their National Guard so you won't have to worry about getting fired (Georgia, I believe, is an exception).
Scylla and Charybdis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scylla_and_Charybdis#Literary_references
My guess would be the state military reserve would trump the fire service as job protection laws generally prohibit
employers from taking disciplinary action when on military orders. The fact that its a state militia and not federal military may be a wrinkle in that, though.
OK.....Edit. Scratch what I just wrote.....I thought it was the National Guard. What is this SMR stuff?????? It like your a non-paid National Guard Volunteer?
The answer to your question lies in how the California SMR was created and if they apply the UCMJ while on State AD. If the CSMR is under the same legislation that governs the Cal Nat Guard then the state's laws on job protection may well apply, if in doubt then consult an attorney. When NC had an active SDF it was covered under NCGS 127.a as part of the state's organized militia.
If you are a member of the Calif. State Mil. Reserve and are called to State Active Duty by the gov. then you must go regardless of your job. Check out the CA. Mil & Vets Code specifically the State Mil. Reserve Act. It provides you with the same job protection as a NG member when called to State Active Duty. These protections are not to be confused the USERRA protections used when NG troops are called to their Fed. status.
CASMR personnel are subject to the UCMJ as adopted by the State of CA when on State Active Duty, violations are thus treated as violations of state not fed law. Also, if called to SAD without your consent the State of CA must pay you according to your rank.
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 08, 2009, 05:49:09 AM
OK.....Edit. Scratch what I just wrote.....I thought it was the National Guard. What is this SMR stuff?????? It like your a non-paid National Guard Volunteer?
http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/Pages/default.aspx
http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/Documents/fact_sheet.pdf
Quote from: PhoenixCadet on March 08, 2009, 04:59:10 AM
I was looking up information just now on the California State Military Reserve, and thought of a question. Lets say you're a member of the CASMR, and a firefighter with the San Diego Fire Department. Rewind to the firestorm in 2007, and all of the SDFD is being utilized to fight fires, but the CASMR has called you to state active duty.
In this type of scenario, who would you have to go with? Your paying employer, or the state militia? I know that going on a CAP "deployment" isn't anything like being called to State Active Duty, but can't find anything on the subject if both of your jobs (paying and volunteer) are being used for the same thing.
I would say go with the Fire Department. It would be harder to explain to a jury why you left your fire company and the thing that is actually fighting the fires then to justify going to do whatever the California Militia does.
I seriously doubt you would 'go to jail' if the state guard was 'mobilized' like the National Guard and you were on the fire line with an FD patch on your shoulder.
Quote from: JThemann on March 08, 2009, 08:00:19 AMI would say go with the Fire Department. It would be harder to explain to a jury why you left your fire company and the thing that is actually fighting the fires then to justify going to do whatever the California Militia does.
I seriously doubt you would 'go to jail' if the state guard was 'mobilized' like the National Guard and you were on the fire line with an FD patch on your shoulder.
There are numerous legitimate State Guards, and as such, they fall under the authority of the Governor of that state. A lot of them take an oath of enlistment that is almost identical to their National Guard counterparts.
Another thing most people don't know is, that when activated, State Guard personnel get paid (by the state, not the Federal government). Not like like CAP where we can throw the "I'm a volunteer, nobody's paying me to do this!" card. It is therefore quite possible that ignoring a callup would be considered AWOL, and could be prosecuted.
The legitimate State Guard's have very little in common with CAP operations. They are more serious than we are.
Quote from: Hawk200 on March 08, 2009, 09:02:08 AM
Quote from: JThemann on March 08, 2009, 08:00:19 AMI would say go with the Fire Department. It would be harder to explain to a jury why you left your fire company and the thing that is actually fighting the fires then to justify going to do whatever the California Militia does.
I seriously doubt you would 'go to jail' if the state guard was 'mobilized' like the National Guard and you were on the fire line with an FD patch on your shoulder.
There are numerous legitimate State Guards, and as such, they fall under the authority of the Governor of that state. A lot of them take an oath of enlistment that is almost identical to their National Guard counterparts.
Another thing most people don't know is, that when activated, State Guard personnel get paid (by the state, not the Federal government). Not like like CAP where we can throw the "I'm a volunteer, nobody's paying me to do this!" card. It is therefore quite possible that ignoring a callup would be considered AWOL, and could be prosecuted.
The legitimate State Guard's have very little in common with CAP operations. They are more serious than we are.
Also, the the city or county agencies that are mostly physically putting boots on the ground for operations are serious too...
Check with the CSMR to be certain, but I'm under the impression that if they call you for mandatory State Active Duty, you must report. Hopefully common sense would apply; how would they contact you if you are already on the fire lines? CSMR isn't likely to be called for wildfire support until things are already very ugly, you may already be out of easy contact.
It's a little different than simultaneous membership in CAP and some other organization like CG Aux, CERT, Red Cross, etc. If we put out an "all call" for ES players we are happy with whatever we get. There is no adverse action if you don't come in to help.
Bottom line, can readily you fulfill your commitment to both organizations? True, there are job protections, but those don't always leave your employer and co-workers with warm and fuzzy feelings. You can count on some hard feelings if you are consistently called elsewhere when it really hits the fan.
There are a few states that have "state guard" organizations that are NOT affiliated with their state government. If anyone connects with one of those groups you will likely have no job protections, even less than with CAP. We have one of those in Colorado; they are all uniformed and claim to be trained up in case the state ever needs them. In the end they are a group of volunteers that probably leaves everyone scratching their heads, at best.
Quote from: Hawk200 on March 08, 2009, 09:02:08 AM
Another thing most people don't know is, that when activated, State Guard personnel get paid (by the state, not the Federal government). Not like like CAP where we can throw the "I'm a volunteer, nobody's paying me to do this!" card. It is therefore quite possible that ignoring a callup would be considered AWOL, and could be prosecuted.
Whether or not you get monetarily compensated has nothing to do with whether you are legally bound to respond - its all about the contract you sign when you join the organization and the state or federal law designed to back up those contracts.
Quote from: Hawk200 on March 08, 2009, 09:02:08 AM
The legitimate State Guard's have very little in common with CAP operations. They are more serious than we are.
Um, yeah. Ok. Here we go again - can't just discuss the issue with out a little self loathing thrown in for good measure.
The state code of military justice would empower the commander to punish AWOL cases, and the state's law governing job protection for state guardsmen would protect you from civilian job discipline actions. But...
Common sense may yet prevail. Your commander would most likely excuse you from state guard mobilization to fight a wildfire if you are already employed as a professional firefighter.
In the NG, when we were called up for a disaster, police and firemen from that jurisdiction were routinely exempted, since they were already working the issue, albeit in another capacity.
But... If you are a firefighter in the south, and the fire's in the north, plan to ruck up.
I could see the issue arising, at least in CA though if you are already a state employee in public safety. CAL-Fire, California Highway Patrol, etc. Because those resources our dispatched throughout the state for disasters. I would think the SMR would probably leave you alone. From what I gather, CA only has about 700 members state wide.
In CA, the SMR seems pretty organized. The commander is a retired 28 year Marine Officer and State Dept of Justice Special Agent. It almost strikes me, in a way, like CAP's VSAF program? Outside of a disaster or being activated, they show up at guard units and just assist with training and logistics. I noticed they are really recruiting for specialties vs. just come and join. They dont really appear to actually offer much in the way of actual MOS training. So if you didnt have a particular career specialty, who knows.
I was in the Army reserve and worked on the Space Shuttle program for the US military. All actions such as call ups can be excused under special circumstances. My priority was the Shuttle ops had priority over the US Army so I was given an exemption. I can see how that can be an issue if your the only Brain surgeon for a City. I was the only widget turner, yet one of the guys who turned my step ladder was called up and subsequently went bankrupt(we got paid well)
The local Calif. State Defense force in my town are ' Military Historians", they could be called up and Lecture the Taliban. or would that be considered torture.
For the record I am still eligible for activation. Walker and all!!
I would check with both the State Military Reserve, the SDFD, and the City or County Attorney for a ruling of which status is binding.
I wouldn't. The law is clear enough even for a non-lawyer to understand.
Uh, no...I would. We have MOU's and contracts that cause some attorney's to curl into the fetal position. Especially in CA. Public Safety employees, especially Fire and Police often have exemptions, especially if they are already involved in the disaster they are about to be called up for by another organization. In addition to that, not all SMR's or SDF's are the same.
Quote from: wuzafuzz on March 08, 2009, 12:37:44 PM
Check with the CSMR to be certain, but I'm under the impression that if they call you for mandatory State Active Duty, you must report. Hopefully common sense would apply; how would they contact you if you are already on the fire lines? CSMR isn't likely to be called for wildfire support until things are already very ugly, you may already be out of easy contact.
I've been through the "ugly", in regard to wildfires, and the CASMR was there: Google "Operation Fall Blaze". That's what got my mind going on this question in the frist place.
Thanks for the input, everyone. It's greatly appreciated.