I've always seens USAF enlisted personnel with rank sewn on the sleeves whereas officers have rank on the flight cap and epaulette.
However, this is the third or fourth time I've seen these enlisted epaulette sleeves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUKI3Vt2aT0&feature=related
Out of pure curiosity, can anyone sned me a source on more information for these? Like when did they become authorized to wear and start becoming popular? Do they have any "special" meaning versus sewing insignias? etc.
Thanks.
AFI36-2903 (http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI36-2903.pdf)
They were for Senior Non-commissioned Officers (MSgt-CMSgt)... They are now only authorized on the cardigan and pullover sweater.
Quote from: AFI36-2903 2 AUGUST 2006SNCO's will no longer wear shoulder boards on their blue shirts.
Shoulder boards will only be worn by SNCO's on the blue cardigan
sweater. Junior NCO's and Airmen will continue to use the pin on
rank. 1 August 2006
Those epualet sleeves were authorized well over twenty years ago. They were in use when I first joined the Air Force. The AF phased them out for shirt wear a couple years ago. They will probably disappear in the next few years, as metal pin on rank is permitted on the sweaters for other ranks. No real point in having them for an item that is not worn as often.
On a trivia note, they were sometimes referred to as "shoulder marks", although -2903 refers to them as "shoulder boards". "Boards" is an odd term as they are cloth.
The Chiefs Mafia was always against them. Their motto, "real NCO's wear stripes on their sleeves".
Quote from: PHall on January 15, 2009, 04:10:18 AM
The Chiefs Mafia was always against them. Their motto, "real NCO's wear stripes on their sleeves".
And that's likely how the epaulets got yanked. I think CMSAF McKinney was the lead on it, saying that ALL NCOs should return to sleeve stripes to help reinforce esprit de corps among the enlisted ranks.
Shoulder marks, epaulets -- regardless of which term you use, they still slide on....
Because that's what Senior NCOs do.
"Continuous change creates the illusion of progress."
Good luck and good hunting,
-Scott
www.CAP-ES.net
Quote from: es_g0d on January 15, 2009, 11:52:43 PM
Because that's what Senior NCOs do.
"Continuous change creates the illusion of progress."
Good luck and good hunting,
-Scott
www.CAP-ES.net
You know, you never know who's on the other end of your post.
I'm a Air Force Reserve MSgt (Ret), and I don't see the humour in your little "quote".
Of course I'm not a gOd either....
It was a rated-G post. No offense intended to you personally. I certainly considered the fact that there was very likely SNCOs that would read the post.
Air Force leadership has a penchant for changing things that don't require changing, or changing them back to the way they were to solve some current problem. How many times during your career did Maintenance belong to Ops, then Logistics, then ops, then logistics, and so on and so forth?
The Jedi Elders of the Air Force all are prone to this; SNCOs included. As a leader in life, its my duty to point out such inconsistencies as the first step on correcting them.
Good luck and good hunting,
-Scott
www.CAP-ES.net
PS the moniker is tongue in cheek...given to me over 10 years ago. Its all in good nature and good humor!
Phil,
I remember when they came about and, how pissed off my dad was. His response was "if I wanted to look like an officer, I would of gone to OTS". He never wore them till he went to MAC. The Senior Enlisted Advisor at the time mandated that all Chiefs were the shoulder boards. Happiest day in his life was when Gen. Cassidy rescinded that rule.
Quote from: es_g0d on January 15, 2009, 11:52:43 PM
Because that's what Senior NCOs do.
"Continuous change creates the illusion of progress."
I wouldn't say that's limited to Senior NCO's. I've seen far more of that than I care for around here (not on CAPTalk, I mean my current locality).
Quote from: flynd94 on January 16, 2009, 05:52:57 AM
Phil,
I remember when they came about and, how pissed off my dad was. His response was "if I wanted to look like an officer, I would of gone to OTS". He never wore them till he went to MAC. The Senior Enlisted Advisor at the time mandated that all Chiefs were the shoulder boards. Happiest day in his life was when Gen. Cassidy rescinded that rule.
That was the advantage of wearing the bag all of the time. Didn't have to wear shoulder marks or even a blue shirt!
DEFINITELY not limited in its scope... and it goes beyond our Air Force. Not being able to help myself, I created this powerpoint slide for use at Creech. A picture is worth an OPLAN 1000 words.
-S
(http://www.bluefouraviation.com/Progress.JPG)
Quote from: es_g0d on January 16, 2009, 02:45:37 AMAir Force leadership has a penchant for changing things that don't require changing, or changing them back to the way they were to solve some current problem. How many times during your career did Maintenance belong to Ops, then Logistics, then ops, then logistics, and so on and so forth?
+1 to what he said. Things in the maintenance field were always changing that didn't need to be changed. I'm not sure if the policy is still being implemented, but flightline maintenance units will be placed under the command and control of flying squadrons instead of under maintenance squadrons with a maintenance officer as their commander where they belong.
Quote from: SaBeR33 on January 19, 2009, 05:31:47 PM
Quote from: es_g0d on January 16, 2009, 02:45:37 AMAir Force leadership has a penchant for changing things that don't require changing, or changing them back to the way they were to solve some current problem. How many times during your career did Maintenance belong to Ops, then Logistics, then ops, then logistics, and so on and so forth?
+1 to what he said. Things in the maintenance field were always changing that didn't need to be changed. I'm not sure if the policy is still being implemented, but flightline maintenance units will be placed under the command and control of flying squadrons instead of under maintenance squadrons with a maintenance officer as their commander where they belong.
Nope, that change got zapped by the new Chief of Staff. The new Chief of Staff is a heavy driver and not a member of the "Fighter Pilot Mafia" like Gen Mosbey was.
Putting maintenance under the flying squadron commanders command is a fighter thing. The heavy drivers (SAC, MAC) never had that system.
Since we aren't talking about epaulet sleeves anymore...