CAPR 160-1 states "only physician categories will have the title of 'medical officer.'"
The term "physician categories" per se is not defined further except possibly under Attachment 1 (CAPR 160-1), INDIVIDUALS IN THE FOLLOWING HEALTH DISCIPLINES ARE ELIGIBLE TO SERVE AS CAP HEALTH SERVICE PERSONNEL:
Health Professionals with Doctoral Degree (such as):
Physicians (MD and DO)
Flight Surgeons (MD/DO w/special training in aviation/aerospace medicine)
Veterinarian (DVM)
Optometrist (OD)
Chiropractor (DC)
Dentists (DDS/DMD)
Psychologist (Phd)
Podiatrist (DPM)
Does someone who has one of the aforementioned doctoral degrees: 1) fall within a "physician category," and 2) qualify to be called a Medical Officer in CAP?
Yes, Keep Reading that reg. Specifically section D-8
Keep in mind that Medical Officer is a staff position. Just because a member qualifies to be called Medical Officer, if they are serving in that position, they are not called Medical Officer.
Quote from: arajca on January 11, 2009, 06:14:12 PM
Keep in mind that Medical Officer is a staff position. Just because a member qualifies to be called Medical Officer, if they are serving in that position, they are not called Medical Officer.
Um...what?
If they don't qualify, they can't hold that position or title. They would be referred to as Health Services Officers.
If they qualify, but do not hold the position, they are not called Medical Officer. I have run into a couple of those who want to be called Medical Officer but do not want to hold the position. Their justification is the regs say they are called Medical Officer because they are an MD.
Got it...
Seems like it mirrors the military, just like the CAP Chaplain Corps.
I started out in CAP wanting to do something related to medicine, as I do in the Guard and in civilian life, but when I discovered that medical professionals could do no more than bandages and briefings, I choose another track. (note, the "bandages and briefings" is an over simplified way of saying, can't do much)
Why is vetinarian even on the list?
Yes they might be a type of Doctor but they are an animal doctor not a human doctor.
^ Vets and MD's learn the same basic stuff. I think Vet's are on there because they have a Medical Degree at the Doctorate level. You would be surprised how similar a Cat and Cadet are.
Quote from: ThorntonOL on January 11, 2009, 09:49:34 PM
Why is vetinarian even on the list?
Yes they might be a type of Doctor but they are an animal doctor not a human doctor.
If I fall and break my arm badly, I'd far rather have a Vet do the splinting than a Podiatrist.
The Vet probably did a full set and cast on 20 broken limbs (admittedly smaller and furrier than mine) last week, the Podiatrist likely hasn't looked at a splint since his Internship, 20 years ago.
Same thing applies if I have a heart attack on a commercial flight. I want the nurse who handles 3 codes a week at a Hospital, not the darn Podiatrist or Dermatologist who hasn't seen an MI in 10 or 20 years. Better yet, the
Stewardess Flight Attendant who just took the AED course last month!
Currency counts in more than Aviation.
openmind
Being a vet is harder - their patients can't talk to them and tell them what's wrong.
Quote from: SarDragon on January 11, 2009, 10:37:07 PM
Being a vet is harder - their patients can't talk to them and tell them what's wrong.
Yes, but an MD can't just put his mistakes to sleep and sell the skin for jackets...
Quote from: ThorntonOL on January 11, 2009, 09:49:34 PM
Why is vetinarian even on the list?
Yes they might be a type of Doctor but they are an animal doctor not a human doctor.
According to Wikipedia, a veterinarian is a "physician" for animals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterinarian
According to the College Board, it's harder to get into veterinary school than medical school.
http://www.collegeboard.com/csearch/majors_careers/profiles/careers/106640.html
And according to the Oregon Veterinary Medical Association:
"A veterinarian is a 'medical doctor' who has attended four years of veterinary school after college to obtain a doctorate."
"To a broad extent, today's veterinary practices parallel medical doctor practices and hospitals for humans. Many veterinary practices are state-of-the-art facilities that use technologies such as digital ultrasound, endoscopes, magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), computed tomography (CT) scans, laser surgery, EKGs and state-of-the-art monitoring equipment."
"From the birth to death of your pet,
veterinarians are equivalent to many doctors in one. They can be your pet's obstetrician, pediatrician, dentist, dermatologist, internist, surgeon, radiologist, anesthesiologist, gerontologist, and ophthalmologist, to name but a few. Veterinarians need to know about all of these areas of animal medicine and more."
http://www.oregonvma.org/petowners/aboutvets.asp
While I think the Medical Officer concept in CAP is not all that well thought out or implemented, giving advanced CAP rank to a veterinarian just makes it even worse than I thought.
Quote from: RiverAux on January 12, 2009, 12:42:55 AM
While I think the Medical Officer concept in CAP is not all that well thought out or implemented, giving advanced CAP rank to a veterinarian just makes it even worse than I thought.
But a mechanic can get advanced rank?!?! CAP members are not even allowed to work on the aircraft.
I think awarding the advanced degree is the objective here.
Quote from: RiverAux on January 12, 2009, 12:42:55 AM
While I think the Medical Officer concept in CAP is not all that well thought out or implemented, giving advanced CAP rank to a veterinarian just makes it even worse than I thought.
Not so fast...
CAP seems to be granting an equivalency for veterinarians which parallels the promotion grades granted to U.S. Army officers commissioned in the Veterinary Corps.
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/aroffjobs/blvet.htm
The question I'm asking is not can they, if they want to they can, but what can a vet bring to a unit from his field? Not saying we won't take them just what's the point of giving them advanced rank if they're just sitting there wearing it doing nothing really in that field aspect, unless they where active in ES with dog team working with the ground team the vet would be part of.
Don't mind my rattling just trying to understand the thought process behind it.
QuoteNot so fast...
CAP seems to be granting an equivalency for veterinarians which parallels the promotion grades granted to U.S. Army officers commissioned in the Veterinary Corps.
And the Army has a use for vets -- we don't.
QuoteBut a mechanic can get advanced rank?!?! CAP members are not even allowed to work on the aircraft.
I'm against ALL advanced rank for ANYONE.
Wow, is this REALLY happening. Vets can do exactly the same amount of medical work in CAP as a doctor, nurse, Paramedic, EMT, FR, whatever.
There is a big push in a lot of places to have specific teams with the sole purpose of searching for and rescuing pets during disasters and other situations.
Pair them with dog teams, or mounted search teams.
I don't understand what the big deal is about appointing people with degree's and training that amount to the complexity of these types of degree's.
According to CAPR 20-1, Medical Officers shall:
- Assists the ES Officer in arranging or providing training in first aid and emergency lifesaving measures to include medically recognized cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) techniques.
- Provide bloodborne pathogen protection training including preventive measures.
- Report bloodborne pathogen exposures and ensure that those members exposed obtain appropriate follow-up medical care from non-CAP sources.
- Advise members to obtain necessary physical examinations from their personal physicians and to complete emergency treatment consent forms where required by regulation to participate in various Civil Air Patrol activities. NOTE: Under no circumstances will CAP medical personnel perform physical examinations as part of their Civil Air Patrol duties.
- Arrange for necessary medical training materials. Supplies and equipment for unit missions or special activities.
- Maintain first aid kits for medical emergencies. (See CAPR 160-1 for policy on emergency medical treatment.)
- Generally advise commanders and unit personnel on preventive medicine matters relevant to CAP activities.
- Plan conferences and meetings pertaining to special affairs.
By the time they are granted an advanced doctoral degree (eg. DVM, VMD), veterinarians have received over 4,000 hours of didactic instruction including training in everyone of these aforementioned aspects.
I see no issue as long as the Vet is working in a field for the promotion. While what is one your collar really means nothing in the big scheme of things in CAP the idea of giving them a little more for their accomplishments is fine by me. How ever the waviered promotion is a different discussion all together.
If I am hurt as long as someone knows what they are doing is helping me then sounds good. Vet or a MD, as long as I am going to live.
Quote from: hatentx on January 12, 2009, 02:57:31 AM
If I am hurt as long as someone knows what they are doing is helping me then sounds good. Vet or a MD, as long as I am going to live.
In the context of a unit Medical Officer, neither is likely to help you unless you happen to have a grabber during a unit meeting, and then only until local EMS arrives.
Quite frankly, not a single one of those duties requires any real medical training that you can't get through the Red Cross.
All the doctors in CAP I know are all great guys and gals and all have contributed significantly to CAP, but nothing they have done has related to the medical field that I am aware of. Yep, thats just my narrow field of experience, but it is what it is.
Quote from: RiverAux on January 12, 2009, 03:56:19 AM
All the doctors in CAP I know are all great guys and gals and all have contributed significantly to CAP, but nothing they have done has related to the medical field that I am aware of. Yep, thats just my narrow field of experience, but it is what it is.
+1
I can't think of a single duty that an MO would handle that wouldn't normally be done by Safety or anyone serving as an HSO.
The biggest place they could have an impact would be flight physicals, and though I'd have to go looking to see if a unit MO is
allowed to give them, I've never met a qualified flight surgeon in CAP
willing to give them, regardless. Most I've dealt with want to seperate CAP from their professional lives for various reasons.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 12, 2009, 04:09:33 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on January 12, 2009, 03:56:19 AM
All the doctors in CAP I know are all great guys and gals and all have contributed significantly to CAP, but nothing they have done has related to the medical field that I am aware of. Yep, thats just my narrow field of experience, but it is what it is.
+1
I can't think of a single duty that an MO would handle that wouldn't normally be done by Safety or anyone serving as an HSO.
The biggest place they could have an impact would be flight physicals, and though I'd have to go looking to see if a unit MO is allowed to give them, I've never met a qualified flight surgeon in CAP willing to give them, regardless. Most I've dealt with want to seperate CAP from their professional lives for various reasons.
^ +1
Quote from: Timbo on January 11, 2009, 10:07:20 PM
^ Vets and MD's learn the same basic stuff. I think Vet's are on there because they have a Medical Degree at the Doctorate level. You would be surprised how similar a Cat and Cadet are.
It's easier to deal with the cat >:D
Quote from: flyerthom on January 13, 2009, 12:32:46 AM
Quote from: Timbo on January 11, 2009, 10:07:20 PM
^ Vets and MD's learn the same basic stuff. I think Vet's are on there because they have a Medical Degree at the Doctorate level. You would be surprised how similar a Cat and Cadet are.
It's easier to deal with the cat >:D
Cats can be thrown further too!
How many Med Officers does CAP have though? I mean, is this REALLY an issue?
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 19, 2009, 07:16:12 AM
How many Med Officers does CAP have though? I mean, is this REALLY an issue?
I think it's an issue when you have activity directors or what not appointing cadets and senior members as "Medical Officers" who may be first aiders or what not.
I'm an EMT who's patially through ALS training, and precious little of what I learned in the Academy prepares for for anything I may routinely deal with at CAP activities.
(I've never popped a blister during a car accident or a chest pain run.)
But, I do believe in a CAP medical program, and starting at the top (the doctors) and working our way down (to us lowely dull expression types, the medical techs) we could develope a comprehensive, and useful medical program.