Other than the current National Commander and Vice Commander, are any other members able to wear general rank? Do we allow former National Commanders (in good standing) to continue to wear the rank?
CAPR 35-5 (http://level2.cap.gov/documents/R035_005.pdf), Section 1-5, paragraphs a and b.
Thanks Mike! That was quick. I did a CAP Talk search, but forgot those pesky Regs.
Just curious as I came across a recent picture of group of CAP Chaplains on an AFB and one was wearing gray brigidier general rank slides on service coat.
I'm up late on Saturday night with post-wisdom teeth extraction pains :(,... Isn't it past your bedtime?
Quote from: lasupplyguy on January 11, 2009, 07:16:16 AM
Thanks Mike! That was quick. I did a CAP Talk search, but forgot those pesky Regs.
Just curious as I came across a recent picture of group of CAP Chaplains on an AFB and one was wearing gray brigidier general rank slides on service coat.
I'm up late on Saturday night with post-wisdom teeth extraction pains :(,... Isn't it past your bedtime?
That would more then likely be Brig Gen Cass former national commander he is a MLO/HC here in FLWG
Quote from: FLCAP 834 on January 11, 2009, 07:39:44 AM
That would more then likely be Brig Gen Cass former national commander he is a MLO/HC here in FLWG
Makes sense! Thanks
Generals Bowling, Wheless, and Anderson were granted the grade permanently.
Someone mentioned in a conversation recently that we may have as many as 10 or more 1-star, former CC's as members currently.
There have only been two 2-stars, so far no one has been granted that grade permanently.
Edit: Not including Harwell, Bowling, Wheless, and HWSRN have been 2-stars, so that makes 4 total.
I believe Bowling is still a Maj. Gen., as the last time I saw him he still had two stars on, and it wasn't that long ago...
Quote from: SJFedor on January 11, 2009, 04:04:54 PM
I believe Bowling is still a Maj. Gen., as the last time I saw him he still had two stars on, and it wasn't that long ago...
I thought the deal was that the only 2-star was the sitting CC and former CC's drop back to 1-star (assuming it is granted permanently).
Dunno. But he was wearing 2 stars, and eServices shows him as a 2-star.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2009, 04:31:02 PM
Quote from: SJFedor on January 11, 2009, 04:04:54 PM
I believe Bowling is still a Maj. Gen., as the last time I saw him he still had two stars on, and it wasn't that long ago...
I thought the deal was that the only 2-star was the sitting CC and former CC's drop back to 1-star (assuming it is granted permanently).
It
used to be that the National Vice Commander had temporary 1-star grade only and would not keep their star and revert to the permanent grade of Colonel unless they subsequently got elected National Commander and earned permanent 2 stars.
I believe both National CC and CV now result in permanent grades, but I believe the BoG has to confirm that (anybody have some documentation or evidence to support that?)
Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2009, 03:45:00 PM
Generals Bowling, Wheless, and Anderson were granted the grade permanently.
Someone mentioned in a conversation recently that we may have as many as 10 or more 1-star, former CC's as members currently.
There have only been two 2-stars, so far no one has been granted that grade permanently.
Edit: Not including Harwell, Bowling, Wheless, and HWSRN have been 2-stars, so that makes 4 total.
*** BUZZ ***
HWSRN is a colonel now. Make it three.
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on January 11, 2009, 05:49:59 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2009, 03:45:00 PM
Generals Bowling, Wheless, and Anderson were granted the grade permanently.
Someone mentioned in a conversation recently that we may have as many as 10 or more 1-star, former CC's as members currently.
There have only been two 2-stars, so far no one has been granted that grade permanently.
Edit: Not including Harwell, Bowling, Wheless, and HWSRN have been 2-stars, so that makes 4 total.
*** BUZZ ***
HWSRN is a colonel now. Make it three.
HWSRN was removed from CAP, therefore he has no grade. Correct?
Quote from: SJFedor on January 11, 2009, 05:51:16 PM
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on January 11, 2009, 05:49:59 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2009, 03:45:00 PM
Generals Bowling, Wheless, and Anderson were granted the grade permanently.
Someone mentioned in a conversation recently that we may have as many as 10 or more 1-star, former CC's as members currently.
There have only been two 2-stars, so far no one has been granted that grade permanently.
Edit: Not including Harwell, Bowling, Wheless, and HWSRN have been 2-stars, so that makes 4 total.
*** BUZZ ***
HWSRN is a colonel now. Make it three.
HWSRN was removed from CAP, therefore he has no grade. Correct?
HWSRN was demoted to SM without grade before being booted. His grade at the time of his termination was Senior Member without grade.
Quote from: SJFedor on January 11, 2009, 05:51:16 PM
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on January 11, 2009, 05:49:59 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2009, 03:45:00 PM
Generals Bowling, Wheless, and Anderson were granted the grade permanently.
Someone mentioned in a conversation recently that we may have as many as 10 or more 1-star, former CC's as members currently.
There have only been two 2-stars, so far no one has been granted that grade permanently.
Edit: Not including Harwell, Bowling, Wheless, and HWSRN have been 2-stars, so that makes 4 total.
*** BUZZ ***
HWSRN is a colonel now. Make it three.
HWSRN was removed from CAP, therefore he has no grade. Correct?
If he left, he was given the bird on the way out -- he was definitely demoted to colonel.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2009, 04:31:02 PM
Quote from: SJFedor on January 11, 2009, 04:04:54 PM
I believe Bowling is still a Maj. Gen., as the last time I saw him he still had two stars on, and it wasn't that long ago...
I thought the deal was that the only 2-star was the sitting CC and former CC's drop back to 1-star (assuming it is granted permanently).
That was the big stink that Bowling made during boards. He thought the new wording in 35-5 took away his second star.
Susie cleared it up and said that when he (AND Wheeless) were awarded the second star it was permanent.
The current wording says nothing about reverting to 1 star except in the wording for Nat Vice.
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on January 11, 2009, 05:55:39 PM
If he left, he was given the bird on the way out -- he was definitely demoted to colonel.
He was demoted to SMWOG, it was a matter of public record when he was terminated.
As I said, there have been a total of four (4) National Commanders who
held the grade of Maj. General since Harwell. There are only three left, today, in CAP.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2009, 06:00:51 PM
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on January 11, 2009, 05:55:39 PM
If he left, he was given the bird on the way out -- he was definitely demoted to colonel.
He was demoted to SMWOG, it was a matter of public record when he was terminated.
As I said, there have been a total of four (4) National Commanders who held the grade of Maj. General since Harwell. There are only three left, today, in CAP.
Really? I was pretty sure they'd demoted him to colonel, at least first. I apparently hadn't heard about the total grade strip.
Someone once asked why General Harwell was allowed to keep his second star, and I recall hearing that because he was promoted under existing regulations at the time (yes, I know the AF didn't sign off on it, but ...), and there was no provision for making the grade temporary, his second star was considered permanent. And we all got to wear the berry boards for a while afterward, too, though the Harwell promotion wasn't the only reason the AF became upset with us.
Jack
^Gen. Harwell was promoted to Maj Gen on the authority of the Sec. AF (MIR). However, there was no coordination with the CSAF. Hence, the "Berry Boards".
The grade is considered permanent.
All past national commanders are still generals (if they are still members). The three CAP/CVs who were not elected to CAP/CC were either not generals to begin with or, left CAP and have no grade currently.
Note: Gen Barry was promoted when he was elected national/cc however, he did not accept the 2nd star. He remains a Brig Gen to this day.
Starting with our current commander and vice commander, the grade is temporary. It is the NEC's responsibility to make the grade permanent either by a vote or by "inaction".
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on January 11, 2009, 06:08:26 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2009, 06:00:51 PM
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on January 11, 2009, 05:55:39 PM
If he left, he was given the bird on the way out -- he was definitely demoted to colonel.
He was demoted to SMWOG, it was a matter of public record when he was terminated.
As I said, there have been a total of four (4) National Commanders who held the grade of Maj. General since Harwell. There are only three left, today, in CAP.
Really? I was pretty sure they'd demoted him to colonel, at least first. I apparently hadn't heard about the total grade strip.
He was demoted to LIEUTENANT COLONEL at first. Then to SMWOG contemporaneous with his removal.
He WAS given the "Bird," but not the one you wear on your shoulders.
But, he's a 3-star now in the US Ranger Corps, so apparently the BoG hasn't hampered his career progression!
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 18, 2009, 06:04:19 AM
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on January 11, 2009, 06:08:26 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 11, 2009, 06:00:51 PM
Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on January 11, 2009, 05:55:39 PM
If he left, he was given the bird on the way out -- he was definitely demoted to colonel.
He was demoted to SMWOG, it was a matter of public record when he was terminated.
As I said, there have been a total of four (4) National Commanders who held the grade of Maj. General since Harwell. There are only three left, today, in CAP.
Really? I was pretty sure they'd demoted him to colonel, at least first. I apparently hadn't heard about the total grade strip.
He was demoted to LIEUTENANT COLONEL at first. Then to SMWOG contemporaneous with his removal.
He WAS given the "Bird," but not the one you wear on your shoulders.
But, he's a 3-star now in the US Ranger Corps, so apparently the BoG hasn't hampered his career progression!
Just three stars? I figured he'd go for at least four.
Surprised he didn't go for Field Marshal
In any event, it takes a lot of hubris to leave an organization in disgrace and start a "competing" rump organization.
It's hard to be a "premier volunteer organization" when you're literally an army of one. Or maybe two or three. Pineda's no Chuck Norris.
Give him time. He's a rising star!
A legend in his own mind >:D
Be mindful of the Membership Code of Conduct; no need to pick on the guy. Get back to the original topic of CAP General grades or move along.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commanders_of_the_Civil_Air_Patrol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commanders_of_the_Civil_Air_Patrol)
To the best of my knowledge, anyone who is still alive ans still a member is still a general.
Although it wasn't that long ago that I would have accurately called that statement inaccurate ::)
Two of Maj Gen Harwell's shoulder sleeves that I've been able to preserve...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/RANK-OFC/MajGen-3E.jpg)(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/RANK-OFC/MajGen-4E.jpg)
I had a copy of the CAP-News with a photo of him being promoted, but I've unfortunately misplaced it :(
I recall that at one of the conferences national had the membership data base and it showed that Senator Goldwater was a LtGen and Senator Denton of Alabama was a MajGen (I suppose because he was a retired RADM).
Quote from: FLCAP 834 on January 11, 2009, 07:39:44 AM
Quote from: lasupplyguy on January 11, 2009, 07:16:16 AM
Thanks Mike! That was quick. I did a CAP Talk search, but forgot those pesky Regs.
Just curious as I came across a recent picture of group of CAP Chaplains on an AFB and one was wearing gray brigidier general rank slides on service coat.
I'm up late on Saturday night with post-wisdom teeth extraction pains :(,... Isn't it past your bedtime?
That would more then likely be Brig Gen Cass former national commander he is a MLO/HC here in FLWG
Gen Cass was he national Commander when I joined CAP as a cadet. glad to know he is still involved in the program
Had a beer with Gen Cass at the first NBB back in '95... And definitely the kind of guy you want to have a beer with! What an interesting and fascinating character he is, a true original!