Questions about SDIS -
(I have not seen SDIS used in my wing)
How well is SDIS working out for CAP? How easy is it to use? How reliable is the satellite phone connection? How many airplanes have an SDIS system? What kind of throughput does the satellite phone give? How many pictures per minute can be sent / how many pictures are reasonable to send from the airplane for a given mission?
I am asking these questions as I am working on developing a new technology for CAP... can't share much more than that right now, just trying to gauge the competition to my ideas...
Thanks much
JCB
Last I heard the satellite service used for SDIS hasn't worked for well over a year. Our wing used to do a lot, but haven't messed with it for some time because of that. It was not fast transmission even then. But, if you had time between targets to mess with it, worked ok.
So, if it worked, how long did it take to transmit a picture from the airplane? At the advertised bitrate (9600) I am thinking a one megabyte jpeg would take around 20 minutes... doesn't seem very practical...
...looking for more user experiences?
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on January 05, 2009, 09:19:36 PM
How well is SDIS working out for CAP?
Probably seemed like a good idea at the time, in practice not so much.
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on January 05, 2009, 09:19:36 PM
How easy is it to use?
As simple as taking a photo and emailing it to mission base. The instructions included with the cameras are waaayy over complicated for the task.
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on January 05, 2009, 09:19:36 PM
How reliable is the satellite phone connection?
Very poor, very slow, saturated during emergencies. I have also heard scuttle that many times the phones are turned off because of accounting issues.
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on January 05, 2009, 09:19:36 PM
How many airplanes have an SDIS system?
Most wings have one system, generally in a 182.
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on January 05, 2009, 09:19:36 PM
What kind of throughput does the satellite phone give? How many pictures per minute can be sent / how many pictures are reasonable to send from the airplane for a given mission?
Its minutes per picture, assuming you have a connection that sticks long enough to transmit.
The unfortunate reality is that a cel phone is much more effective for this at the altitudes we fly, what we need to do is get a waiver on cel-phone use for emergencies.
Actually I think we had around 90 airplanes fitted with SDIS at one point. I think its tracked on the homeland security resources database.
We have been using SDIS extensively in Michigan Wing since late 2005 and we have one fully equipped SDIS aircraft in the wing.
When it works, it works fairly well but the problem is the lack of reliability on satellite connections.
Some days it connects fine, some days not. This can also vary from hour to hour. Global Star (the satellite provider) has committed to launch more satellites this year and stopped charging us for satellite time until that is done. We'll see how it works after that.
The actual transfer of photos is slow if you send a high-res image.
Our procedure has been to send the customers lo-res jpg's first, to allow them to look at them and select what they want a closer look at. You can send several jpg's in a couple of minutes.
We have then sent them the high-res image they request based on the jpg's they have looked at and and that takes 5-10 minutes per image. We also always burn a CD with all images in high-res to deliver after we have landed and in most cases, the customers have been content with that (in fact, most customers prefer it that way).
Global Star offers at least two kinds of subscriptions to their network based on connection speed and satellite coverage. Unfortunately CAP have the "basic" plan with low speed and connectivity.
I assume and have been told that this will be upgraded at some point providing the requests for photo missions keep increasing as it has so far.
When Globalstar works, it works great. Its been wonderful to use the satphone to talk to an IC who's on the other side of the state (out of radio range). When it doesn't work (anecdotally, about 90% of the time), its obviously useless. Even when it does work, though, it is slow at transmitting pictures. Therefore, most folks have found it best to do some sort of flyback photography, using a USB memory stick or a burned CD/DVD. I like that option, personally, because then I don't need anything back from a customer. Another option is to land and send items via 802.11 or a wireless aircard.
Incidentally, the SPOT tracker uses the globalstar satellite constellation, but works very well. My suspicion is the low data rate required. If you are looking for a reliable satphone service, Iridium is the only real option.
Good luck and good hunting,
-Scott
www.CAP-ES.net
GlobalStar has an Optimum Availability Tool at their website. The direct link is http://www.globalstarusa.com/en/optimum_tool/
You can plug in your location and time zone, and it will kick out a report detailing the time windows of optimum satellite coverage. We have used it before and found it relatively useful for SDIS operations and SATPHONE usage. The observer carries a copy of the report aloft, and uses it to help determine when it is best to transmit images and/ or contact mission base via SATPHONE.
SDIS is not perfect, but we have found most customers are satisfied with flyback anyways. This allows us a chance to tweak the images anyways so we are giving them the best product. We also recently acquired aircards, and found them to be very effective in a "land and send" scenario.
QuoteIncidentally, the SPOT tracker uses the globalstar satellite constellation, but works very well. My suspicion is the low data rate required.
Globalstar has two independent systems. A duplex system for the phones and a simplex (uplink only) system for data devices, which SPOT uses. Globalstar explains on its website that the issues are with the duplex system.
Mike
So it sounds to me like:
1) A few of our planes are equipped with SDIS
2) an SDIS equipped plane can go to a target, take one or two medium resolution pictures and maybe transmit them back to base 10 - 20 minutes after taking them
3) depends on the internet still being in operation
4) SDIS is not reliable by any stretch
5) Geo-tagging of the picture is still a manual task
Is this what I am hearing from you all?
--JCB
Sounds about right...
FWIW, I can take my cell phone and take a 3MP photo and email it via 3G in a couple of seconds...
IMHO SDIS was intended to fill a need that doesn't really exist.
In the dark ages before digital, you had two choices - slow scan and film.
Slow scan could give you a pic, such that that it was, fairly quickly, but was far from a simple solution, and film
had a lag time of hours to days for processing.
These days the "JUST NOW!" need is filled by local media, turn the tv on to the local news channel and see what just broke, blew up, burned, or is left.
Google earth, local.live.com, and high-end GIS systems give you a pic of what was there "before".
When we go up, usually, its well past the golden hour and our customers are looking for clear, specific images of "after", or "now", or detailed surveys of large areas so someone can review what was missed, etc.
The AO's are not usually more than an hour from an airport, and the immediacy of need is within that time frame - (i.e. take some GOOD photos, either RTB or land somewhere else near there, hit the FBO and upload the high-res photos direct to the customer, IC, etc.)
As long as you can find the net, cell service, or an active POTS line, you can send pics, and even with the time to land, boot, etc., probably aren't saving much time over even an optimized sat system.
The above fits 90%+ of our mission profiles, the others can be handled by exception.
Real-time imaging would be great, for that we'd need the same kind of equipment the media has, skilled operators, possibly special airframes.
Quote from: Nomex Maximus on January 06, 2009, 12:04:40 AM
So, if it worked, how long did it take to transmit a picture from the airplane? At the advertised bitrate (9600) I am thinking a one megabyte jpeg would take around 20 minutes... doesn't seem very practical...
...looking for more user experiences?
I used the photo settings to reduce the size down. If I was able to get a connection at all, files beyond 200 KB would time out. On one mission I was able to get some 60 kB pictures through, but they were too low resolution to do much. If you have to send a picture, learn the software tools to crop and save at a lower resolution.
In a crunch, the low res photos can be sent. But be able to make the decision to press on when required. Many aircrews make the mistake of microfocusing in the laptop when they should be just saving the images and going to the next mission assignment or task.
The biggest part here is knowing the software and system, and when to say uncle.
Unfortunately, I am not a fan of "real time" SDIS or the unreasonable expectations of the higher chain.
SDIS works great post flight. I've used it to send saved pictures from the FBO wireless. The in-aircraft phones are worthless for anything more than voice.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 07, 2009, 04:58:11 PM
. . .
Real-time imaging would be great, for that we'd need the same kind of equipment the media has, skilled operators, possibly special airframes.
Hehehe... not necessarily... new things may be coming... hehehe...
Quote1) A few of our planes are equipped with SDIS
99 out of 535 according to the CAP Resources page. The report also lists 36 "tray only" installations, but I've got no clue what that means.
Quote from: RiverAux on January 11, 2009, 03:33:18 PM
Quote1) A few of our planes are equipped with SDIS
99 out of 535 according to the CAP Resources page. The report also lists 36 "tray only" installations, but I've got no clue what that means.
Means there's a tray for the SATPhone brick to go into, but it doesn't have a dedicated brick to the aircraft. Works when one SDIS aircraft is grounded, you can do a quick swap of the brick and keep on trucking.