Well, I was thinking about posting this picture in an existing thread, But It sort of stands alone.
I found this on a Sea Cadet website. Any comments?
Picture link:
http://picasaweb.google.com/forrestalsquadron/TuskegeeAirmenNovDrill#5155393545286806594
nice. ::)
I believe this picture is definitely worth a thousand words. You'd think if he wanted to impersonate a Maj. General he'd at least put the stars on an officer's flight cap.
Actually, it looks like he may be some sort of Rear Admiral in the Sea Cadet Corps, and perhaps the NSCC allows wear of both Real Military and CAP awards and decorations. In other words, the black shirt, nameplate and small stars looks very much like a Naval-esque uniform, and he's just sporting CAP ribbons and CAP wings, in addition to his RM and NSCC ribbons and devices.
More info & research is needed before anybody accuses this guy of anything, for sure.
Quote from: Pylon on October 12, 2008, 06:19:22 PM
Actually, it looks like he may be some sort of Rear Admiral in the Sea Cadet Corps, and perhaps the NSCC allows wear of both Real Military and CAP awards and decorations. In other words, the black shirt, nameplate and small stars looks very much like a Naval-esque uniform, and he's just sporting CAP ribbons and CAP wings, in addition to his RM and NSCC ribbons and devices.
His name tag would also seem to indicate his uniform being associated with the Sea Cadets.
(edit - sorry didn't see your comment about that)
We worked with the Sea Cadets at our summer encampments for several years. The adults wore regular naval officers uniforms and most often the khakis or the ice cream suits. They were usually a Ens, Ltjg,Lt, or LtCdr and that was about the highest rank for anybody that wasn't active duty Navy. They didn't promote like CAP does.
Plus, all his ribbons are USAF or CAP. Someone in the Sea Cadets wouldn't get that high without earning a single naval type ribbon.
Smells fishy!
OH MY GOODNESS!!!! This is my C/2nd Lt. at my squadron!!!!!! He is a really good guy. Yes, he is also in the Sea Cadets.
That appears to be a Sea Cadets uniform, so the stars may very well be legit.
That being said, and after looking up the NSCC regulations, the CAP ribbons and insignia are not authorized on that uniform. CAP ribbons are prohibited specifically in their regulation for their cadets, and are not included in their 'yes' list for adults.
I am also intrigued at the title - "Tuskegee Airmen"
The RM ribbons he is wearing seem to indicate Air Force enlisted service likely between 1955-1965. I was under the impression, perhaps mistakenly, that the Tuskegee Airmen were from WW2??
Quote from: cnitas on October 12, 2008, 07:03:54 PM
That appears to be a Sea Cadets uniform, so the stars may very well be legit.
That being said, and after looking up the NSCC regulations, the CAP ribbons and insignia are not authorized on that uniform. CAP ribbons are prohibited specifically in their regulation for their cadets, and are not included in their 'yes' list for adults.
I am also intrigued at the title - "Tuskegee Airmen"
The RM ribbons he is wearing seem to indicate Air Force enlisted service likely between 1955-1965. I was under the impression, perhaps mistakenly, that the Tuskegee Airmen were from WW2??
I am calling the cadet right now.. Will post more info soon...
EDIT: The cadet is busy, but he is calling me back. I will try to figure it out.
I do not even believe that NSCC has Admirals. Their regular officer ranks stop at LT CDR and their higher ups are, I believe, Captains....
The uniform is the winter service blues, "Johnny Cash" uniform.
Quote from: NSCC/NLCC Uniform Manual5101.3 Cadets will wear only those NSCC/NLCC ribbons and appurtenances specified in the NSCC Awards Manual. They may not wear DOD/DOT/DHS ribbons and awards, nor ribbon and awards from other military oriented youth programs (CAP, JROTC, Sea Explorers, etc.) on NSCC uniforms, unless specifically authorized in writing by Sea Cadet National Headquarters. Badges developed for NSCC cadets for award upon successful completion of TWT or other like training (SEAL, EOD, etc.) may be worn as approved by NHQ and detailed in the Awards Manual. Manner of wear shall follow that of earned warfare or other qualification insignia, with only two permitted.
Quote from: NSCC/NLCC Uniform Manual5101.4 NSCC officers, midshipman and uniformed instructors may wear all earned DOD/DOT/DHS ribbons and breast insignia. Documentation in the form of DD-214, NAVPERS 1650/65 (from Bureau of Naval Personnel, Retired Records Section), or other appropriate documentation, must be in the members NSCC Service Record, verifying the member's entitlement to such awards and insignia. When worn with NSCC ribbon awards, DOD/DOT/DHS ribbons take precedence.
Granted, it doesn't say anything about CAP, other than Cadets not allowed to wear ribbons, etc from other cadet programs without approval from brass.
I can't figure out why a Tuskegee airman would forego wearing RealMil bling instead of CAP bling, but it's a Maj Gen. They wear what they want. Whether it's germane to the topic or not, There are flag officers (ret) involved in the NSCC, by the way.
And I have donuts, which are more enticing than further research. Have fun storming the castle.
Donuts... nom nom nom
I used to be an Instructor with the Naval Sea Cadet Corps. and I never saw that uniform or heard anyone holding that grade. And I am pretty sure that they dont allow CAP bling on their uniforms.
FYI
Here are the REAL Tuskegee Airmen! Our cadets got invited to meet them as Lockheed Martin Owego NY brought them into town.
All of these guys were in the 80-90's! none of them wore uniforms either!
(http://owegocap.com/images/rsgallery/display/airmen%20Large.JPG.jpg)
(http://owegocap.com/images/rsgallery/display/greeted2%20Large.JPG.jpg)
(http://owegocap.com/images/rsgallery/display/greeted1%20Large.JPG.jpg)
In case you're wondering, the AF ribbons he's wearing are (from top down, left to right)
Presidential Unit Citation
{Looks like two outstanding unit awards} {National Defense ribbon}
{Marksmanship ribbon {AF good conduct ribbon, (less than 6 years of service)}
Nothing big here... no decorations, just service or unit awards.
It looks to me like there's two identical ribbons in the row next to the top.
While the few that I have met were "seasoned", there are more than a few who do not show their age.
Depending on the activity and circumstance, I have seen any number of them wearing uniforms in various
flavors, however the unusual thing is the ubiquitous blazer with the nameplate.
As to the gentleman above, I'm as curious as everyone else, because the story behind his garb is sure to be "interesting", regardless.
Wiki says the highest adult grade in the NSCC is LCDR. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Sea_Cadet_Corps
(http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jul2006/screen_20060719145723_tuskegeeiniraq.jpg)
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa48/bcsmith46/tuskegee-airmen.jpg)
(http://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/newsstoryPhoto/2008-02/scr_080221-D-xxxxK-002.jpg)
(http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09Mr3N7clBgKO/610x.jpg)
(http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060806-F-1851B-001.jpg)
(http://www.wals.lib.wi.us/ocnn/blogs/oshblog/archives/macon.jpg)
BTW - I've seen bright red, light blue, and dark blue blazers. Anyone know the differentiation?
It appears this was taken during the "Tuskegee Airmen Youth Day" at Cavanaugh Flight Museum in Addison, TX.
Note this photo, which matches the hanger and there appears to be one of the officers from NSCC in the background who appears in other photos in the Picasa album (which I'd be willing to bet gets taken down or edited quickly after someone from TX-354 or Group III gets wind of this thread).
(http://www.group3txwing.org/content/0709/hg_100_1396_9.jpg)
Quote from: Eclipse on October 12, 2008, 11:01:48 PM
It appears this was taken during the "Tuskegee Airmen Youth Day" at Cavanaugh Flight Museum in Addison, TX.
Note this photo, which matches the hanger and there appears to be one of the officers from NSCC in the background who appears in other photos in the Picasa album (which I'd be willing to bet gets taken down or edited quickly after someone from TX-354 or Group III gets wind of this thread)...
That was the Tuskeegee Airmen day last year. One of the cadets in my squadron is in the honor guard picture. (No, I wasn't there.) This is the TX Wing Group III honor guard.
TX-354 (Lakeshore Composite Squadron) in Rockwall is actually in Group II. There are other pictures in the album that include other cadets from my squadron and from Mesquite Black Sheep Composite Squadron (TX-214).
If I remember correctly, the blazer color of the Tuskeegee Airmen represents the squadron they belonged to. I could be wrong, though.
Quote from: Eclipse on October 12, 2008, 11:01:48 PM
(which I'd be willing to bet gets taken down or edited quickly after someone from TX-354 or Group III gets wind of this thread).
While I'm sure I could email the Gp CC up there, I'd rather here the story on this.
Quote from: DNall on October 13, 2008, 12:10:08 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on October 12, 2008, 11:01:48 PM
(which I'd be willing to bet gets taken down or edited quickly after someone from TX-354 or Group III gets wind of this thread).
While I'm sure I could email the Gp CC up there, I'd rather here the story on this.
Why not just e-mail the commander instead of making speculations here on a public forum?
I don't believe I'm speculating in any way, though I would certainly agree there is no legal way in which that uniform could exist as configured. Now, while I'm quite sure Owen doesn't know anything about it, or care, how would it resolve anything to have the picture taken offline?
That's censorship in order to tolerate behavior you know isn't acceptable (or legal), in order to prevent CAP from looking bad to the 99.5% of the world that would have no idea this guy is doing something wrong. That should cause your core values nerve to twinge a little.
Quote from: DNall on October 13, 2008, 01:00:02 AM
I don't believe I'm speculating in any way, though I would certainly agree there is no legal way in which that uniform could exist as configured. Now, while I'm quite sure Owen doesn't know anything about it, or care, how would it resolve anything to have the picture taken offline?
That's censorship in order to tolerate behavior you know isn't acceptable (or legal), in order to prevent CAP from looking bad to the 99.5% of the world that would have no idea this guy is doing something wrong. That should cause your core values nerve to twinge a little.
Once pointed out, it would be common courtesy for the Sea Cadets to remove it (and completely cricket if they choose to make a legal issue with him for embarrassing them publicly).
Censorship is governmental requirement that images or messages not be made public. Pulling photos that make you look silly is common sense and good practice.
If the NSCC people choose to leave it there, there's not much we can do.
The core value nerve you feel twitching is because of all the people in both NSCC and CAP who likely made note of the issue at the time and said / did nothing but take a photo with him.
Who is that guy really?
He can't be a Tuskegee Airman because he's too young. Plus, he don't have the right ribbons.
He's not in a CAP uniform, although he clearly is wearing CAP wings, ribbons, and a CAP badge.
I don't think he is a RADM in the Sea Cadets. I don't think they have admirals, but I'll admit I don't know for sure that they don't.
If he is a two-star, he's the first one I ever saw who never got so much as an achievement medal and never was in combat or overseas.
I really don't have a clue. I'm leaning heavily to the idea that he is some kind of poser/faker.
The only thing I can think of that would be a legitimate deal is that he might be in a state Naval Militia.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on October 13, 2008, 01:37:13 AM
Who is that guy really?
He can't be a Tuskegee Airman because he's too young. Plus, he don't have the right ribbons.
He's not in a CAP uniform, although he clearly is wearing CAP wings, ribbons, and a CAP badge.
I don't think he is a RADM in the Sea Cadets. I don't think they have admirals, but I'll admit I don't know for sure that they don't.
If he is a two-star, he's the first one I ever saw who never got so much as an achievement medal and never was in combat or overseas.
I really don't have a clue. I'm leaning heavily to the idea that he is some kind of poser/faker.
The only thing I can think of that would be a legitimate deal is that he might be in a state Naval Militia.
Methinks something's rotten in Denmark...
CAP pilot wings with a star and 'toilet seat' - not too many I know wear 'em. (Ditto with Master Observer wings.)
ES badge with a toilet seat? Gotta have done time as a Wing ES weenie. Not too many of 'em in TXWG.
Texas does have a Squiddie state militia but certainly not around the DFW area.
If it turns out this guy's a fake
[mod redacted --MK]
Quote from: DNall on October 13, 2008, 01:00:02 AM
I don't believe I'm speculating in any way, though I would certainly agree there is no legal way in which that uniform could exist as configured. Now, while I'm quite sure Owen doesn't know anything about it, or care, how would it resolve anything to have the picture taken offline?
That's censorship in order to tolerate behavior you know isn't acceptable (or legal), in order to prevent CAP from looking bad to the 99.5% of the world that would have no idea this guy is doing something wrong. That should cause your core values nerve to twinge a little.
Sometimes you surprise me with your perspective on things. Removing photos that are clear
faux pas, i.e. those that should never have gone up in the first place, is a common practice among PAOs.
In this situation, and I should point this out, no one really knows much on the detail...however, it seems that everyone has an opinion as to who and what this fellow is. Here is one of those opportunities people take to try to turn "speculation" into facts.
May I, as I so often due, call for some temperance in this matter until the facts are clearly known? Until that is done, removing the pics (and even the less than objective words in this thread) might best display a modicum of professionalism.
Certainly not Sea Cadets....even the National Commander is only a Lieutenant Commander.....although it would be very cool if the USNSCC finally allowed progression beyond LCDR (O-4).
Most likely not Tuskegee, they seem to wear a blazer type dress uniform.
Probably not Texas Naval Militia. Two stars belong to the Adjutant General (who is usually in an Army uniform).
He is wearing CAP master observer wings, Army basic jump wings, A CAP ES badge, mixed CAP awards with real military including two ribbons of the air force outstanding unit award...one of them with an oak leaf and a "V" device. I see the reserve officers association ribbon (ROA). Also mention was the army/air force presidential unit citation with oak leaf.
It would be interesting to read his two line name tag to see if that would shed some light.
things that make you go "hhmmmmm...."
EDIT: Sorry, that blue ribbon second row under PUC is the AF Good Conduct, not ROA, my bad... (ROA has red/white/blue in center of the ribbon)
Ranger Corp uniform perhaps? >:D
Those are AF ribbons, not state or navy related.
Quote from: sandman on October 13, 2008, 02:07:43 AM
Probably not Texas Naval Militia. Two stars belong to the Adjutant General (who is usually in an Army uniform).
For sure not. That's a couple small dets under the overall state guard, which is commanded by a one-star (state guard type). TAG is a 3 star on the state commission. Even if that were the case, CAP decs would not be allowed on a state guard uniform. Only federal & state awards.
Looks to me like:
Pres unit citation (requires combat)
outstanding unit award (req combat)
looks like a DFC (way wrong order, req combat)
NDSM
Marksmanship
AF good conduct medal
As for speculation.... there's no legal way this uniform could exist as configured. It's an absolute fact that this is a violation of federal law & disgrace to service members just as clearly as it would be if the guy were wearing a medal of honor.
Yeah NSCC can take it down to avoid embarrassment. But, then nothing happens to this guy. Isn't that just one lie covering up another? And tolerating a lie/disgrace to avoid embarrassment? Doesn't that pattern of lies on top of other lies eventually become some kind of web? I mean I don't know at what point that occurs or if a secret decoder ring comes with it, but you know what's right & wrong as well as I do.
Ranger Corps :clap:
I was thinking Texas Navy, but the admirals seem to wear blazers too.
Can anybody zoom in on the name tag and clean it up?
Quote from: Eclipse on October 12, 2008, 11:01:48 PM
It appears this was taken during the "Tuskegee Airmen Youth Day" at Cavanaugh Flight Museum in Addison, TX.
Note this photo, which matches the hanger and there appears to be one of the officers from NSCC in the background who appears in other photos in the Picasa album (which I'd be willing to bet gets taken down or edited quickly after someone from TX-354 or Group III gets wind of this thread).
(http://www.group3txwing.org/content/0709/hg_100_1396_9.jpg)
I am one of the ranking cadets at TX-354. That hangar is not one that we meet at or have been to. None of the cadets in this photo are members of our squadron. The Sea Cadet in the first picture is though. I have no idea as to whom the guy he is standing with is.
Quote from: MSgt Van on October 12, 2008, 10:26:08 PM
In case you're wondering, the AF ribbons he's wearing are (from top down, left to right)
Presidential Unit Citation
{Looks like two outstanding unit awards} {National Defense ribbon}
{Marksmanship ribbon {AF good conduct ribbon, (less than 6 years of service)}
Nothing big here... no decorations, just service or unit awards.
It looks to me like there's two identical ribbons in the row next to the top.
The two identical awards are Air Force Outstanding Unit Awards. He's also wearing the Army Good Conduct Medal and the USAF Small Arms Expert Ribbon. I'm impressed that the collar stars are Navy (connected), rather than seperate as worn in the Army/Air force.
Quote from: addo1 on October 13, 2008, 02:27:17 AMThat hangar is not one that we meet at or have been to. None of the cadets in this photo are members of our squadron. The Sea Cadet in the first picture is though. I have no idea as to whom the guy he is standing with is.
Those photos are from the previous year, but appear to be from the same event.
Obviously at least one of your members has been there, just not in a CAP capacity. The info was taken off of the Texas Group III website.
Quote from: Cecil DP on October 13, 2008, 02:35:49 AM
Quote from: MSgt Van on October 12, 2008, 10:26:08 PM
In case you're wondering, the AF ribbons he's wearing are (from top down, left to right)
Presidential Unit Citation
{Looks like two outstanding unit awards} {National Defense ribbon}
{Marksmanship ribbon {AF good conduct ribbon, (less than 6 years of service)}
Nothing big here... no decorations, just service or unit awards.
It looks to me like there's two identical ribbons in the row next to the top.
The two identical awards are Air Force Outstanding Unit Awards. He's also wearing the Army Good Conduct Medal and the USAF Small Arms Expert Ribbon. I'm impressed that the collar stars are Navy (connected), rather than seperate as worn in the Army/Air force.
Just a note...The Army good conduct medal (ribbon) has three white stripes, not two. Sorry.
EDIT. The ribbon has white and yellow stripes.....The CAP lifesaving award!
Quote from: sandman on October 13, 2008, 02:35:19 AM
Here ya go....
The guy started his own 501(c)3 program that allows all ribbons and accoutrement. Gives new meaning to "an Army / Navy / Air Force of one" ;D
Which is called? We know it can't be the US Ranger Corps.
Quote from: Eclipse on October 13, 2008, 02:37:10 AM
Quote from: addo1 on October 13, 2008, 02:27:17 AMThat hangar is not one that we meet at or have been to. None of the cadets in this photo are members of our squadron. The Sea Cadet in the first picture is though. I have no idea as to whom the guy he is standing with is.
Those photos are from the previous year, but appear to be from the same event.
Obviously at least one of your members has been there, just not in a CAP capacity. The info
was taken off of the Texas Group III website.
Yes. Like I said previously, the Sea Cadet in the picture is a member of CAP as well.
Right now, I am going to take the oppurtunity to make sure that everyone is clear that the cadet has no fault in it whatsoever. He was simply posing for a picture with a "supposedly" high-ranking person from his org. This cadet probably has the highest standards and values of anyone on here, and I am willing to vouch for that all the way.
As to the guy in the picture, I will get more info about him as soon as possible.
Quote from: Eclipse on October 13, 2008, 02:40:04 AM
Quote from: sandman on October 13, 2008, 02:35:19 AM
Here ya go....
The guy started his own 501(c)3 program that allows all ribbons and accoutrement. Gives new meaning to "an Army / Navy / Air Force of one" ;D
Which is called? We know it can't be the US Ranger Corps.
The US Corpse Rangers!
dispatching zombies for America
Quote from: Eclipse on October 13, 2008, 02:40:04 AM
Quote from: sandman on October 13, 2008, 02:35:19 AM
Here ya go....
The guy started his own 501(c)3 program that allows all ribbons and accoutrement. Gives new meaning to "an Army / Navy / Air Force of one" ;D
Which is called? We know it can't be the US Ranger Corps.
US Civil Naval Corps? :D
Quote from: addo1 on October 13, 2008, 02:42:16 AM
Right now, I am going to take the opportunity to make sure that everyone is clear that the cadet has no fault in it whatsoever. He was simply posing for a picture with a "supposedly" high-ranking person from his org. This cadet probably has the highest standards and values of anyone on here, and I am willing to vouch for that all the way.
I can't imagine why anyone would think we have any other opinion of the cadet, for one thing he's found the time to dual charter and from the pics and your comments he's apparently progressing well in both programs - this is about the adult next to him.
Quote from: Eclipse on October 13, 2008, 02:46:12 AM
Quote from: addo1 on October 13, 2008, 02:42:16 AM
Right now, I am going to take the opportunity to make sure that everyone is clear that the cadet has no fault in it whatsoever. He was simply posing for a picture with a "supposedly" high-ranking person from his org. This cadet probably has the highest standards and values of anyone on here, and I am willing to vouch for that all the way.
I can't imagine why anyone would think we have any other opinion of the cadet, for one thing he's found the time to dual charter and from the pics and your comments he's apparently progressing well in both programs - this is about the adult next to him.
Good. I just want that to be COMPLETELY clear. Some people on here might have a hard time getting that idea.
Quote from: addo1 on October 13, 2008, 02:42:16 AM
This cadet probably has the highest standards and values of anyone on here, and I am willing to vouch for that all the way.
Oh yeah? Your sayin I don't have high standards then, huh huh? ;D Just jokin!!
Of course no one has any issue with the cadet pictured. Really no one has any major problem with people making honest or even slightly flagrant uniform mistakes.
When you intentionally make yourself out to be something you're obviously not; when you put on stuff you just bought somewhere when other people worked hard over a career to accomplish those honorable things - be it rank or awards or whatever... that's just really low.
And, I don't think it's a double outstanding unit award. I think the top middle under the presidential unit citation is a DFC. I think he probably meant the one on the right to be a silver star. That would make a lot more sense. It'd still be jacked up on this uniform, but I can see selectively wearing those awards & not a lot of lesser stuff.
Quote from: DNall on October 13, 2008, 03:09:15 AM
Quote from: addo1 on October 13, 2008, 02:42:16 AM
This cadet probably has the highest standards and values of anyone on here, and I am willing to vouch for that all the way.
Oh yeah? Your sayin I don't have high standards then, huh huh? ;D Just jokin!!
Of course no one has any issue with the cadet pictured. Really no one has any major problem with people making honest or even slightly flagrant uniform mistakes.
When you intentionally make yourself out to be something you're obviously not; when you put on stuff you just bought somewhere when other people worked hard over a career to accomplish those honorable things - be it rank or awards or whatever... that's just really low.
And, I don't think it's a double outstanding unit award. I think the top middle under the presidential unit citation is a DFC. I think he probably meant the one on the right to be a silver star. That would make a lot more sense. It'd still be jacked up on this uniform, but I can see selectively wearing those awards & not a lot of lesser stuff.
I perfectly understand that and am willing to help y'all find who the guy is. Once I get some more detail, I will post.
Maybe, just maybe, this gentleman was involved in a tragic explosion at a Navy uniform sales establishment, and he staggered from the wreckage wearing what happen to stick....
What a cool blast to the past! From 1981ish-1984 I was a Sea Cadet at VP65 based at Point Mugu Naval Air Station. Good memories.
Regarding the uniform, NSCC officers/instructors are required to wear the Sea Cadet patch on each shoulder. The patch background matches the color of the uniform and uses gold color thread. It gets a little lost on the white but stands out clearly on the khakis and blues. The exception is leaders who are authorized to wear the real Navy uniform. Caveat: my info is ancient, but supported by current NSCC websites. A Google search for images of Sea Cadet uniforms will bear that out.
I have no idea what organization the fellow in the photo is representing. I have seen unaffiliated color guards invent some curious uniforms.
Did anyone notice that the guy with the stars is also wearing a SPAATZ ribbon?
Actually, I have to disagree with DNall.
While each state makes its own rules for the uniforms of its various state militias (militi?), there exists a national association calle dthat "State Guard Association of the United States." The SGAUS published a recommended set of uniform regulations, that DO authorize the wear of CAP ribbons and badges.
I don't know if Texas has adopted the recommended set of regulations, and as a point of fact, I'm not sure if Texas has a state naval militia.
But... as I see it there are only two alternatives that can explain the uniform pictured:
1. Admiral of the Texas Naval Militia
Or
2. Outright fraud.
Somebody pLEASE find out! I'm dying to know! Oh, the DRAMA!!!!!!
I just looked up the Texas State Guard website. They DO have a "Maritime Regiment" of the TXSG commanded by a Rear Admiral. (Peter Andrus)
According to the marginal information, the photo was taken in 2005. RADM Peter Andrus assumed command of the Maritime Regiment in 2006. Also, Andrus is CLEARLY not the person pictured, being of a different ethnicity.
Can any of you Texans shed any light on this?
Quote from: tedda on October 13, 2008, 02:44:42 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on October 13, 2008, 02:40:04 AM
Quote from: sandman on October 13, 2008, 02:35:19 AM
Here ya go....
The guy started his own 501(c)3 program that allows all ribbons and accoutrement. Gives new meaning to "an Army / Navy / Air Force of one" ;D
Which is called? We know it can't be the US Ranger Corps.
The US Corpse Rangers!
dispatching zombies for America
Tedda, you're back!
Quote from: D2SK on October 13, 2008, 02:45:14 PM
Did anyone notice that the guy with the stars is also wearing a SPAATZ ribbon?
I don't see a Spaatz ribbon. I see a CAP Lifesaving ribbon though. (Red with white and yellow stripes.)
I see a Spaatz Ribbon.
(http://www.danielsfastcookbook.com/Capture.JPG)
Nope. The outer "white" stripes are actually yellow.
He does have on the GRW though.
Edit: who knows whether he aware of which way the GRW goes. Not that it matters.
Okay....playing devils adovocate here...
This yahoo here....has some CAP ribbons, some USAF ribbons, CAP wings, and Jump Wings on his navy blue uniform with rear admerial (Upper Half) stars on. And what looks like a CAP ES badge.
Okay...
on the CAP side....everthing looks Kosher and within the CAP regs (as far a where to wear them).
On the USAF side....everthing looks sort of kosher with the exception that no one with so little time in service would have some many unit awards. I will throw him the bone....that back when he was in the USAF (assuming that he was) it may have been back in the day when you wore all of your unit citations while you were a member of that unit (kind of like how the army does it today) but you took them off when you changed units. If he was a member of just one unit (which is possilbe given how little time he served) he may have never encountered the "take those off" situation.
I won't address the jump wings or the navy star as I got no information about them one way or the other.
So....assuming that the navy like organisaiton that he currently belongs to allows CAP and AD military ribbons and he is some HRMF in said organisation....everthing looks more or less kosher.
Having said that....you would think....that the a Rear Admeral in the Tx Militia (or what ever he belongs to) would have a bit more militia ribbons then he is sporting.
On that note.....other than the fact that he looks to us to be a total poser of some sort....he actually does not look that bad in uniform. I've met some AD, CAP and others who, following all the rules, still look like fecal matter in uniform.
So, is it agreed that the ribbons are as followed?:
1. Presidential Unit Citation with second award
2. AF Outstanding Unit Award wth Valor and second award
3. AF Outstanding Unit Award
4. National Defense Service Medal
5. AF Small Arms Marksmanship
6. AF Good Conduct Medal
7. CAP Lifesaving Award
8. Gill Rob Wilson
9. Garber Ribbon
10. Grover Loening
11. CAP Leadership Ribbon with second award
12. CAP Membership Ribbon
13. CAP General Yeager Ribbon
14. CAP Red Service
15. CAP Find Ribbon
16. CAP Search and Rescue with propeller device (air search)
17. CAP Disaster Relief
18. CAP Encampment Ribbon
19. CAP Special Activities Ribbon
and of course...
Master Observer Wings
Airborne Wings
Master Emergency Services Badge
O-8 devices on collars and hat
Navy style winter blue uniform
Question about the CAP Red Service Ribbon, with so much experience, can one conceiveably earn all those ribbons and devices in less time that it takes to earn a second device on the Red Service Ribbon? What about the Leadership Ribbon?
If he's only a Master in one track, he'd only have one attachment on the O'Davis ribbon.
Its not out of the question to do all that in less than 10 years - I have basically the same
CAP resume in about 9 and was not very active the first two.
Same here...I am one wing conference away from getting my Level III and as soon as that is done I need to do my ECI 13 to complete all my requirments for Level V...and I only got 5 years in.
One note on the USAF ribbons...if he only has the V and one pip on his AFOUA then he should not have two ribbons. (USAF allow up to 4 pips on one ribbon)....also his good conduct medal should be before his marksmanship.
QuoteI need to do my ECI 13 to complete all my requirements for Level V
Since ECI 13 is required for Level 2, shouldn't that be done by now?
QuoteIf he's only a Master in one track, he'd only have one attachment on the O'Davis ribbon.
I only see one and it is a silver star, so that checks out.
QuoteIts not out of the question to do all that in less than 10 years
While I agree with you, he appears to have done level 5 in under 5.
Since the first clasp is earned at 5 Years that would be a little more tight.
Another problem is that he has his NCSA below his encampment. Not correct, otherwise he did OK at the CAP ribbon order.
Just some observations.
Quote from: SilverEagle2 on October 13, 2008, 06:54:27 PM
QuoteI need to do my ECI 13 to complete all my requirements for Level V
Since ECI 13 is required for Level 2, shouldn't that be done by now?
Currently using my USAF NCO Academy for ECI 13....if I go back and go ECI 13 I get to bump my USAF PME up one to cover RSC and NSC.
QuoteQuoteIts not out of the question to do all that in less than 10 years
While I agree with you, he appears to have done level 5 in under 5.
Since the first clasp is earned at 5 Years that would be a little more tight.
Or maybe he just forgot to update his Red Service Ribbon. (But yo woule think a bling hound like him would stack everthing he was allowed. )
Ahhh...makes more sense now with the additional data.
So, with all of that said, the guy otherwise looks somewhat sharp!
How about a new corporate CAP uniform? One the AF does not have to worry about? >:D
Quote from: sandman on October 13, 2008, 08:24:08 PM
So, with all of that said, the guy otherwise looks somewhat sharp!
How about a new corporate CAP uniform? One the AF does not have to worry about? >:D
We got two of those already....do we need a third?
Anybody know who he is yet?
First of all let's agree that this guy is a fake as far as being any kind of real military officer. Nobody gets stars with so little real bling. Even the chairborne generals in todays military end up with achievement and commendation medals out the wazoo. This includes active duty, guard, reserve, state guards, ect.
This guy probably learned enough about CAP or the USAF to sound real to outsiders. This includes people in the RM who are not familiar with the insignia and practices of other branches.
He also had the cajones to pass himself off this way and to this extent. In St. Louis recently they had a guy that passed himself off as a DEA agent for several months to the city fathers and the town PD and county SD. There were several people out of a job when the truth came out including a chief of police. They let this guy go with them on raids and busts. People like this go to elaborate length to make themselves seem real.
A few years ago when we held joint encampments with WI at Volk ANGB, there was this guy who would show up for the graduation on the WI side who wore a black beret with 7th SFG flash and LTC grade, a Combat Artillery Badge(no such animal but they make em for vets to buy), pathfinder badge but no jump wings, and believe it or not a Soldier of Fortune Magazine logo pin. The rest of his uniform was Army class A Greens and bloused jump boots. There are a lot of these guys out there.
For the sake of information:
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Valor_Act_of_2005
The Stolen Valor Act of 2005 (the Act), signed into law by President George W. Bush on December 20, 2006,[1] is a U.S. law that broadens the provisions of previous U.S. law addressing the unauthorized wear, manufacture, sale or claim (either written or verbal) of any military decorations and medals. It is a federal misdemeanor offense, which carries a punishment of imprisonment for not more than 1 year and/or a fine; the scope previously covered only the Medal of Honor.
...Under the act, it is illegal to wear, buy, sell, barter, trade or manufacture "any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces."...
10 USC, Subtitle A, Part II, Chapter 45, Sections 771 and 772 is the federal law that defines the wear of military uniforms.
Lots of detail here: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/a/uniformwear.htm
FYI, the State Guard Association of the US can't "authorize" anything in regards to what uniforms worn by State Defense Forces. They may recommend that CAP ribbons be allowed, but no state is under any obligation to do so. Additionally, I think CAP would need to authorize SDFs to wear CAP ribbons as well.
I would hope CAP would have to authorize SDFs to wear our ribbon. IIRC, they sent out some C&D letters to vendors selling CAP items so Vanguard would be sold distributor. Personally, I don't have a problem with vendors selling CAP items, gives Vanguard some competition, helps keep prices reasonable. But I do have a problem with people not in CAP wearing CAP ribbons, badges, etc.
I don't have many ribbons, badges, etc., but I worked for what I got, even if it was just spending time sitting in a class.
I have personally been involved with busting 6 phonies in CAP, half of which happened right here on CAP Talk.
Thats a sweet looking uniform though. I didnt read all the posts, but did anyone point out that hes wearing the same ribbon twice?
OK.....I went back....a few people mentioned the two of the same. What a poser. Although Im a little upset that nobody pointed out the LAME sunglasses!
Quote from: tedda on October 13, 2008, 04:20:13 PM
Edit: who knows whether he aware of which way the GRW goes. Not that it matters.
Maybe it's a National Commander's Citation...same ribbon worn the opposite way.
Where is he wearing the same ribbon twice? The only similarity I an seeing is the PUC and SAR ribbon...
I'll just say this: Be very careful about accusing anybody of being a fraud (or accusing people of things in general) well before any or all facts are known. Simply because you can't find supporting facts from your armchair general chair (or was that a guardhouse lawyer's chair?) via the Googles, doesn't mean that the guy is a fraud. I'm neither defending him nor agreeing with all of you -- but you're walking a very fine line in a very public manner.
Gentlemen don't jump to conclusions.
Quote from: DC on October 14, 2008, 02:28:40 AM
Where is he wearing the same ribbon twice? The only similarity I an seeing is the PUC and SAR ribbon...
Air Force Outstanding Unit award. He has one with a V device and an Oak Leaf Cluster and one basic ribbon.
I'm pretty dang certain he's not a past commander of the Tx State Guard naval rgmt. That's a one-star position currently held down by a two-star (not this guy). The overall commander of the TSG is a two-star position (again not this guy). The Naval Rgmt is very new, as in the last couple years. I don't think they actually have a former commander.
I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty close to certain that CAP ribbons (not to mention badges) are not allowed on TSG uniforms. State awards & badges are allowed though, and he would have to have lots of that.
I did look up the state reg covering awards and state guard uniforms. The annex chapter covering their uniforms is currently under review & not published.
/me looks around nonchalantly, drops this on the ground for the jackals to pick up on...
http://goldenheartfoundation.com/
Wow! Good find NIN:
The Bio:
QuoteIn the one hand, he has literally held a human heart. While with his other, he has pulled a human being from the carnage of a burning plane, seconds before the plane exploded into a red billow of gas and flame. And with his own heart, he has reached out to hundreds of thousands of children across the nation...tutoring them, visiting them in elementary schools and hospitals...giving them something they can feel: something they can remember, something they can smile about and sing about. That something, a thing more precious than gold, is a thing called "LOVE". And that man, behind the hand that held the heart, that dared the burning plane, that loved the children, is a man called Texas Admiral James Ellison, Founder of Golden Heart.
Texas Admiral Ellison, has uniquely "harmonized" his many special talents and his professional experiences in the arts, natural medicine, business, and active and volunteer military duties into creating Golden Heart. A dynamic community based organization that addresses and devotes itself to the needs and healthy development of children. Particularly, those children who are troubled or medically and economically disadvantaged.
He is a member of AOPA- as an Orthopedic Physician Assistant, plus insured as a Surgical Assistant. He has trained and worked many years in hospitals and medical centers, and he has been photographed as a team member on the cover of the Dallas Medical Journal, featuring laparoscopic procedures. As an accomplished artist with a Visual Arts Degree from the University of Texas at Dallas, he has continued to create wonderful pencil drawings.As a Lt. Colonel with many years in the United States Air Force Auxiliary/ Civil Air Patrol, he has served as a mission air crew and sar ground team member in the Rocky Mountain Region in Wing Command. As a certified Aerial Radiological monitoring Instructor, he has trained over 3,000 officers and cadets. He has over 1,000 hours of mission time and has served as Idaho and Washington State Emergency Services Director. Texas Admiral Ellison has received the "Life Saving Award", twice, plus the Bronze Star for his acts of heroism.
Texas Admiral Ellison has attended the Air Force Academy and Air Force War College to obtain the highest level of academic level in CAP.
He has received a commission as an admiral in the Texas Navy, from past Governor G. Bush, for his outstanding community service to the State of Texas. A letter from the White House signed by the President in support of his efforts to motivate children; Bridging the Gap Award; Volunteer of the year-USS Island; Heart of the Lion Medal; The Iron Star; Baron in the Red Baron Air Force; Key to City; Dallas Fire Department Humanitarian Certificate for saving someone; National Portrait Press Award in Art; Certificate of Appreciation from the U.S. Congress and Senate/ Plus from the Texas Rep. and Senate Members.
A little more about membership in the Texas Navy:
http://www.texasnavy.org/membership.htm
It is similar to the Admirals of Nebraska thing.
Quotehttp://goldenheartfoundation.com/
^^^
And....
He owns the domain and created the site. Still does not make him legit.
I could create a web site (oh wait...I have) and then go on to promote myself as this site does.
Not to mention that his site is really poorly built.
However, if real, I commend his efforts.
He still needs to switch his NCSA and Encamp ribbons around though.
Just some thoughts.
Quote from: NIN on October 14, 2008, 01:40:15 PM
/me looks around nonchalantly, drops this on the ground for the jackals to pick up on...
http://goldenheartfoundation.com/
Darin,
Bravo Zulu! :clap:
Thank you for finding this info. I just wanted to find out who this person was. I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt but I threw it out to the wolves.
Lessons learned?
He appears to be LTC James Reid Ellison of TX-133. Joined CAP 1990, Date of rank in 1995. Expired 2007.
OK, so was he a Spaatz Cadet? Possibly explaining how he went from Senior Member to LTC in 5 years. Surely someone in TX wing has heard of him right?
There are still some things that don't seem right. Presidential Unit citation and an Outstanding Unit award with a "V" (valor) device, however no combat or campaign ribbons. USAF guy with Jump Wings? That in itself is rare. If I am mistaken, I would like nothing better. I have dealt with people who have had entire lives based off of a story they told once.
Quote from: lordmonar on October 13, 2008, 07:51:19 PM
Currently using my USAF NCO Academy for ECI 13....if I go back and go ECI 13 I get to bump my USAF PME up one to cover RSC and NSC.
This is possible? You can change your mind on how you use your PME after already benefiting from it once? On paper that sounds bad but frankly I don't see a problem with it if your going back and completing the requirements.
Why? Some people get bad advice when they join. "Don't worry about Course 13, its crap and the blablabla...". So some people never look into it and just use their PME to avoid it.
I have some people in my squadron who might be able to take advantage of this. (Never thought to try it) Can you detail anything that can be used or quoted, should we try to do this. How will you get NHQ to change your records to show that you took ECI-13 instead of it saying NCOA equivalency or whatever it says now?
http://www.airportjournals.com/display.cfm?
"After high school, he joined the United States Air Force. During his three years in the service, Ellison did learn to fly, but he also used his burgeoning artistic skills to illustrate the nose cones of F-111 Aardvarks. A colonel took the young serviceman under his wing and encouraged him to go to college. That facilitated Ellison's early discharge from the military. Ellison went on to pursue his dream by completing a visual arts degree at the University of Texas, winning national art awards in the process."
So why is he wearing Observer Wings?
"I was in special operations and emergency services," he recalled. "I was one of the few CAP officers sent to attend the first Air Force Academy program for CAP officers. We performed a lot of missions at the Air Force's behest, including search and rescue and recovery efforts."
Over the course of his service, Ellison accumulated more than 1,000 hours of mission time and trained more than 3,000 officers and cadets. He twice received the CAP's Life Saving Award, as well as the Bronze Star for a profoundly brave act of heroism.
In the early 1980s, Ellison went on a rescue mission in a Helio Courier, to assess the condition of a crashed aircraft.
"A plane went down, but no one wanted to get near it because of the ordinance it was carrying," he remembered. "It was going to blow. I flew past everyone. I didn't think about my life at the time; I was young and dumb. I pulled the pilot out anyway. The fireball burned right through my flight suit, but I saved this guy."
SURELY!!! Someone remembers the explosion and the fireball? The Bronze Star being awarded? Something?
So, the "Admiral" had a story that people "jumped the gun on" before knowing all the facts. How so typically "CAPTALK."
Some of you are so used to jumping on the "bandwagon" that you have all the "songs" memorized. That effect (the roasting, "behind the back" talk and busy-bodying) is one of the major failings of CAP oriented forums.
So, will the next posting on something similar show a tempered/objective response? Will facts be presented before jumping off the cliff with both feet? Probably not. Someone will call for it and be told to bugger off, be labeled and unprofessional trash talking will ensue.
Quote from: Flying Pig on October 14, 2008, 02:48:59 PM
OK, so was he a Spaatz Cadet? Possibly explaining how he went from Senior Member to LTC in 5 years. Surely someone in TX wing has heard of him right?
The join date is the last time he joined without a break. If he took more than a 90 day break his join date will change. For instance I joined in 1965, enlisted in 68, rejoined in 71, left for a year in 81 and rejoined in 83. I would have My join date is 1/83 but National will show 38 years when I retire in January.
SURELY!!! Someone remembers the explosion and the fireball? The Bronze Star being awarded? SomethingBronze Stars can only be earned in a combat zone. Do I smell fish???
Quote from: Flying Pig on October 14, 2008, 03:04:04 PM
http://www.airportjournals.com/display.cfm?
"After high school, he joined the United States Air Force. During his three years in the service, Ellison did learn to fly, but he also used his burgeoning artistic skills to illustrate the nose cones of F-111 Aardvarks. A colonel took the young serviceman under his wing and encouraged him to go to college. That facilitated Ellison's early discharge from the military. Ellison went on to pursue his dream by completing a visual arts degree at the University of Texas, winning national art awards in the process."
So why is he wearing Observer Wings?
"I was in special operations and emergency services," he recalled. "I was one of the few CAP officers sent to attend the first Air Force Academy program for CAP officers. We performed a lot of missions at the Air Force's behest, including search and rescue and recovery efforts."
Over the course of his service, Ellison accumulated more than 1,000 hours of mission time and trained more than 3,000 officers and cadets. He twice received the CAP's Life Saving Award, as well as the Bronze Star for a profoundly brave act of heroism.
In the early 1980s, Ellison went on a rescue mission in a Helio Courier, to assess the condition of a crashed aircraft.
"A plane went down, but no one wanted to get near it because of the ordinance it was carrying," he remembered. "It was going to blow. I flew past everyone. I didn't think about my life at the time; I was young and dumb. I pulled the pilot out anyway. The fireball burned right through my flight suit, but I saved this guy."
SURELY!!! Someone remembers the explosion and the fireball? The Bronze Star being awarded? Something?
You know, it think it is way past time to stop.
This guy is/was one of CAP's greatest heros. I want to know who he is. I mean, come on, he pulled a fighter pilot out of a military plane that was full of ordinance AS IT EXPLODED! I dont think its to much to ask to want the details. There have to be people here who remember that mission?
Quote from: Major Carrales on October 14, 2008, 03:10:47 PM
Someone will call for it and be told to bugger off, be labeled and unprofessional trash talking will ensue.
bugger off. Seriously.
You've got a bunch o' folks with prior or current service who are challenging the bona-fides of someone who is wearing the bling of the USAF and your treasured Civil Air Patrol because some of his dogs just won't hunt. Did you read what's been presented? Are you knowledgeable in the content? Do you possess the bona-fides to judge your peers that are right
here in this forum? If not, take a seat.
QuoteSome of you are so used to jumping on the "bandwagon" that you have all the "songs" memorized. That effect (the roasting, "behind the back" talk and busy-bodying) is one of the major failings of CAP oriented forums.
There's always the (http://www.adiumxtras.com/images/thumbs/power_button_2_dock_icons_22051810_thumb.png) if things get too heavy for you. Every forum, blog, etc on the Web that is even remotely involving the military is the same in this respect.
There's something about a guy who
must ensure everyone knows he's taking the moral high ground on every controversial topic. Sounds like AGENDISM! Oy!
Learn when to lay low, dude.
So can all you guys that are Admirals in the Nebraska Navy wear a Uniform like the one Ellison is wearing, with the stars?
Okay, so the guy was given some honorary grade & made up his own uniform to look cool? CAP & mil decs/badges should not be on that type of arrangement.
Ill say this right now. I have been confronted by so many inflated and fake heros in my time in the military, CAP and in police work, starting with a Plt. Sgt. who everyone believed was a SEAL and even wore the Trident and Gold Jump Wings. Come to find out, the dude had doctored his ENTIRE record book and had even gained promotions up to MSgt. based on his "accomplishments". Somehow he managed to walk around for 15 years in the Army Reserves with a SEAL trident and never got called on it. He later received a Dishonorable.
I have seen highly respected CAP members walk away in shame when its discovered that they were PURE phonies. I have dealt with, in law enforcement, a couple of "community leaders" who had so over inflated themselves to gain notoriety and influence, and who's first reaction was to call you names the first time something didnt add up with their stories. Later on, the story comes out and people ask, "Why didnt we know?"
When I was in High School, a "SEAL" came by our JROTC unit once per week to talk to the cadets and just help out. Guess what..... after I joined the Marines, I later learned that the dude got escorted off campus by the police. The guy was never even in the Navy.
Admiral Ellison has had some wild and amazing experiences in CAP that dwarf any Silver Medal of Valor citation I have ever had the pleasure of reading, was on Wing Staff in TX, and by his own account was a very influential member of CAP. I mean for crying out loud...he saved a crashed military pilot from a burning plane loaded with bombs, on a CAP search mission, a second before it exploded, in front of onlookers who were to afraid to do anything, and nobody remembers?
He trained thousands of members, however, nobody has ever heard of him and he just let his membership expire? Why not stay in CAP and at least wear a uniform that is official? Now, he creates his own uniform for an honorary position, that by his own admission, when he was "commissioned", the certificate meant so little that it ended up in a pile of papers on the floor in his office until a kid starting calling him "Admiral".
So when someone like this comes along, please, spare me the guilt trip when people question. Because in real life, believe me, there are very few people like this who actually exist. I would love for nothing else more than to be able to point at this guy and say, "You know what? That dude right there is the S$%^! That guy right there is what Civil Air Patrol means"
And believe me, people who are the real deal, dont mind when people ask.
Quote from: DNall on October 14, 2008, 04:49:56 PM
Okay, so the guy was given some honorary grade & made up his own uniform to look cool? CAP & mil decs/badges should not be on that type of arrangement.
So... I'm trying to stay well clear of this one, since this is one of my major pet peeves.
But, just to add another stick to the pile. It says he was given a special commission by then Gov. Bush as an Admiral...
...Why's he only wearing RADM(Upper) stars then, and not the true 4 stars that an Admiral would wear?
Quote from: Major Carrales on October 14, 2008, 03:13:25 PM
You know, it think it is way past time to stop.
I understand what you're saying but I have to disagree. We have found out who he is but there are some unanswered questions. Where is the bronze star ribbon? Is it possible to wear two AFOUA ribbons (other than having 26 or more of the same award)?
At least we have some uniform "violations" we can kick around, at worst we have a guy claiming some fairly tall tails that need to fleshed out!
Quote from: NIN on October 14, 2008, 01:40:15 PM
/me looks around nonchalantly, drops this on the ground for the jackals to pick up on...
http://goldenheartfoundation.com/
And, of note, the quality of the website absolutely sucks. Everything except, of course, the donations page, which seems to work very well. :-\ :-\
And NIN, I'm submitting a F2A for a find for you buddy :P
Quote from: SoCalCAPOfficer on October 14, 2008, 04:38:57 PM
So can all you guys that are Admirals in the Nebraska Navy wear a Uniform like the one Ellison is wearing, with the stars?
By golly, I think I will!
I'm thinking three stars, maybe four. Three stars I could use the CG Aux NACO bling so somebody couldn't mistake me for a poser ;)
You know, I dont have really any issues with any of the uniforms, ribbons, whatever. If the guy earned them, and he later got a wild hair to come up with some sort of made up uniform, who cares. I look at it like he created a work uniform for his company.
What I take issue with, is if the guy is telling these wild stories, then using it to further a cause where kids are looking to him as an example. I dont care what "good" his organization is or what it has done. (Actually I do) but if its foundation is based off of things that dont add up, thats where it needs to stop. If kids need a hero, you don't make one up.
I could be speculating, but perhaps his NCSA ribbon is supposed to be a Senior Recruiter Ribbon. Then they would be in order aside from it being the wrong one.
However, his AF awards are out of order as well.
At the least, he needs a regulation refresh and a good uniform inspection what ever the organization he claims to be part of is.
Quote from: tedda on October 14, 2008, 04:26:10 PM
Quote from: Major Carrales on October 14, 2008, 03:10:47 PM
Someone will call for it and be told to bugger off, be labeled and unprofessional trash talking will ensue.
bugger off. Seriously.
You've got a bunch o' folks with prior or current service who are challenging the bona-fides of someone who is wearing the bling of the USAF and your treasured Civil Air Patrol because some of his dogs just won't hunt. Did you read what's been presented? Are you knowledgeable in the content? Do you possess the bona-fides to judge your peers that are right here in this forum? If not, take a seat.
QuoteSome of you are so used to jumping on the "bandwagon" that you have all the "songs" memorized. That effect (the roasting, "behind the back" talk and busy-bodying) is one of the major failings of CAP oriented forums.
There's always the (http://www.adiumxtras.com/images/thumbs/power_button_2_dock_icons_22051810_thumb.png) if things get too heavy for you. Every forum, blog, etc on the Web that is even remotely involving the military is the same in this respect.
There's something about a guy who must ensure everyone knows he's taking the moral high ground on every controversial topic. Sounds like AGENDISM! Oy!
Learn when to lay low, dude.
You should try taking the "moral high ground" sometime, it only involves the core values of CAP.
Really, I come on here are try to stave off uninformed/half informed comments from people who are without the full gamut of facts and warn against specuations that might make CAP officers look "unprofessional" and I get this sort of reaction from you. WOW!!!
I can see that CAP "blogging" and the effective use of a discussion forum has taken a slide down to a place I don't think is beneficial to the greater CAP.
If people have a problem with the fellow in the photo, they should contact the fellow in private and make their concerns known to him...not post all sorts "comments." If you think the fellow is a fraud, why not alert the authorities and then report the findings? Or is it easier to make flippant, underinformed and ungrounded comments?
And you bet I'm gonna scold people for not "taking the morale highground," we should refrain from doing the opposite.
I did email him.
Admiral Ellison,
I am interested in your act of valor where you rescued the military pilot seconds before his aircraft, laden with ordinance exploded. What type of aircraft was it? As a 20 year member of CAP, I had never heard of that incident, and it far dwarfs any Silver of Medal citation I have ever witnessed or read. When was it? Additionally, what Airborne Class were you in and what was your military occupational specialty that allowed you to attend jump school as an air force airman? Its a shame you allowed your CAP membership to expire. You seem to be the type of member we so desperately need these days.
Robert Steht
Sq. Commander
Sq. 112-Fresno
Standing by
Quote from: Major Carrales on October 14, 2008, 05:32:34 PM
You should try taking the "moral high ground" sometime, it only involves the core values of CAP.
Really, I come on here are try to stave off uninformed/half informed comments from people who are without the full gamut of facts and warn against specuations that might make CAP officers look "unprofessional" and I get this sort of reaction from you. WOW!!!
I can see that CAP "blogging" and the effective use of a discussion forum has taken a slide down to a place I don't think is beneficial to the greater CAP.
If people have a problem with the fellow in the photo, they should contact the fellow in private and make their concerns known to him...not post all sorts "comments." If you think the fellow is a fraud, why not alert the authorities and then report the findings? Or is it easier to make flippant, underinformed and ungrounded comments?
And you bet I'm gonna scold people for not "taking the morale highground," we should refrain from doing the opposite.
I hear what you're saying Joe. I wonder if you're missing the point here though. My understanding of this forum is to sit back and "shoot the bull" with people of like interests (CAP).
As is with human nature, members tend to critique or criticize things of which we have not a full understanding. Such is the fun.
Had I known who this person was, maybe the opening presentation would have taken a different tack along with the whole discussion. But I enjoy stirring the pot sometimes..... ;)
The guy is claiming to have been one of our biggest heros. And (WE) have never heard of him. I see no problem with us wanting him to jog our memory. Hopefully, his email will straighten this out.
Quote from: Flying Pig on October 14, 2008, 05:48:19 PM
The guy is claiming to have been one of our biggest heros. And (WE) have never heard of him. I see no problem with us wanting him to jog our memory. Hopefully, his email will straighten this out.
Maybe invite him to CAPTalk for an open discussion. If his street cred (CAP cred) checks out, it would be excellent to have such a person broadcast to this forum!
I do believe there are some folks on here who owe an equally public apology for the comments they made here after making assumptions and jumping to conclusions.
So when someone like this comes along, please, spare me the guilt trip when people question. Because in real life, believe me, there are very few people like this who actually exist. I would love for nothing else more than to be able to point at this guy and say, "You know what? That dude right there is the S$%^! That guy right there is what Civil Air Patrol means"
And believe me, people who are the real deal, dont mind when people ask.
As I posted before......
Quote from: LtCol White on October 14, 2008, 05:54:06 PM
I do believe there are some folks on here who owe an equally public apology for the comments they made here after making assumptions and jumping to conclusions.
So you believe the gentleman in question rescued a military pilot from the hands of death while on a CAP mission? Right before the bombs he was carrying blew up?
I own 25+ years worth of Annual Reports to Congress and have read all of them, and have yet to hear of these heroics.
Can someone actually look to see if the gentleman earned a GRW. That would I guess give him a little more credibility.
My issue here is someone wearing CAP (and military) decorations causes them to reflect on us. If they then turn out to be full of crap, and using that BS image to influence others, that reflects very poorly on us. That is the kind of thing that gets CAP disrespected among people that have done things of significance. Allowing that to perpetuate rather than policing it is harmful to the organization.
If it somehow turns out that this guy is completely on the level & wearing this uniform for something other than the stated reasons, then I'm certainly happy to apologize for any discredit or insult. I think we'd all be very happy to have such a hero in our midst, and equally unhappy to have someone stealing that honor from those that deserve it.
Quote from: Flying Pig on October 14, 2008, 05:14:14 PM
What I take issue with, is if the guy is telling these wild stories, then using it to further a cause where kids are looking to him as an example. I dont care what "good" his organization is or what it has done. (Actually I do) but if its foundation is based off of things that dont add up, thats where it needs to stop. If kids need a hero, you don't make one up.
This is my biggest issue too. Anyone can do good work with kids. We want examples for them that are really worthy of that role. When you lie to become an example, then the rest of the package is tainted too.
According to the CAP National site, he really was a CAP LTC in TX Wing. His membership expired last year.
Quote from: sandman on October 14, 2008, 05:44:40 PM
My understanding of this forum is to sit back and "shoot the bull" with people of like interests (CAP).
Not sure the bosses or the MCoC would agree with that... And I'd tend to agree that as a general rule this site does not exist for the purposes of
shooting the bull.
Quote from: sandman on October 14, 2008, 05:44:40 PMBut I enjoy stirring the pot sometimes..... ;)
You can add pot stirring to the above.
Quote from: MIKE on October 14, 2008, 06:43:47 PM
Quote from: sandman on October 14, 2008, 05:44:40 PM
My understanding of this forum is to sit back and "shoot the bull" with people of like interests (CAP).
Not sure the bosses or the MCoC would agree with that... And I'd tend to agree that as a general rule this site does not exist for the purposes of shooting the bull.
Quote from: sandman on October 14, 2008, 05:44:40 PMBut I enjoy stirring the pot sometimes..... ;)
You can add pot stirring to the above.
No problem Captain.
I'll rephrase: Part of the interest some members of this forum may have is the probability of bantering back and fourth ideas or concerns sometimes referred to as "shooting the bull" or "stirring the pot".
Certainly there is NOTHING wrong with questioning the legitimacy. I questioned it myself. However, there were people who flat out called the man a fake and a fraud with NOTHING to back up these comments. There is a respectful way to question and a disrespectful way.
From the info found on the golden hearts site, there appears to be some legitimacy of the gentleman. That said, I too still question the wearing of CAP decorations and qualifications. But, that is not really and issue for ANY of us to determine. The PROPER means is to refer it up to NHQ General Counsel and IG and let THEM determine what is appropriate based on the information that members were able to obtain from open sources and their own investigation. If it is not appropriate, then I feel QUITE sure they will take the necessary action.
QuoteFrom the info found on the golden hearts site, there appears to be some legitimacy of the gentleman.
Except for the fact that he owns the domain, he more than likely created the site, and more than likely wrote the bio.
Other than the one article posted that seems to restate everything from his own site, and the fact he is on the roles as a CAP LTC, there is nothing that I have found that legitimizes his reported info from his site.
I'll keep searching though.
I would love to know what the name plate he is wearing on the "uniform" in question says.
Quote from: SilverEagle2 on October 14, 2008, 07:03:27 PM
I would love to know what the name plate he is wearing on the "uniform" in question says.
Probably says: Texas Admiral Ellison, Golden Heart
Quote from: SilverEagle2 on October 14, 2008, 07:03:27 PM
QuoteFrom the info found on the golden hearts site, there appears to be some legitimacy of the gentleman.
Except for the fact that he owns the domain, he more than likely created the site, and more than likely wrote the bio. Other than the one article posted that seems to restate everything from his own site, and the fact he is on the roles as a CAP LTC, there is nothing that I have found that legitimizes his reported info from his site.
I'll keep searching though.
I would love to know what the name plate he is wearing on the "uniform" in question says.
You falsely believe that for anything to be true, hard verifiable facts must be easily accessible from the internet via your Google searching. The entire sum of human knowledge, log of every governor's actions, every award of every medal, and every organization's intricate and comprehensive history as well as the complete set of by-laws, rules, and regulations governing every object in the world isn't all necessarily available on "teh intarwebs". "If you can't find it through Google, the guy must be a fraud or the organization must be worthless" isn't backed by anything other than guardhouse lawyering.
This guy
could be a fraud, or he could have been handed those stars by the governor or the lt. governor, or who knows whom -- but the method by which you're determining him certifiably a fraud (by lack of solid internet references) isn't exactly the most sound method ever used. I'd caution against using that approach when making public statements about another person's character.
Quote from: Pylon on October 14, 2008, 07:12:04 PM
Quote from: SilverEagle2 on October 14, 2008, 07:03:27 PM
QuoteFrom the info found on the golden hearts site, there appears to be some legitimacy of the gentleman.
Except for the fact that he owns the domain, he more than likely created the site, and more than likely wrote the bio. Other than the one article posted that seems to restate everything from his own site, and the fact he is on the roles as a CAP LTC, there is nothing that I have found that legitimizes his reported info from his site.
I'll keep searching though.
I would love to know what the name plate he is wearing on the "uniform" in question says.
You falsely believe that for anything to be true, hard verifiable facts must be easily accessible from the internet via your Google searching. The entire sum of human knowledge, log of every governor's actions, every award of every medal, and every organization's intricate and comprehensive history as well as the complete set of by-laws, rules, and regulations governing every object in the world isn't all necessarily available on "teh intarwebs". "If you can't find it through Google, the guy must be a fraud or the organization must be worthless" isn't backed by anything other than guardhouse lawyering.
This guy could be a fraud, or he could have been handed those stars by the governor or the lt. governor, or who knows whom -- but the method by which you're determining him certifiably a fraud (by lack of solid internet references) isn't exactly the most sound method ever used. I'd caution against using that approach when making public statements about another person's character.
Exactly my point why all info should be passed on to NHQ and let THEM do the further investigation and make the determination of fact or fiction instead of having the CAPTALK equivalent of the Salem Witch Trials.
Having served as the Director of Emergency Services and as Chief of Staff in Washington State and consulted with people who have been in Washington state longer then I was, no one knows this guy nor have they ever heard of him. Poser extraordinary.
So, is he a Physician Assistant licensed in Texas?
The Texas Medical Board does not seem to list him.
I'll need to check other states though.....
After all, we can't rely on the internet can we.....
Quote from: Who_knows? on October 14, 2008, 07:23:52 PM
Having served as the Director of Emergency Services and as Chief of Staff in Washington State and consulted with people who have been in Washington state longer then I was, no one knows this guy nor have they ever heard of him. Poser extraordinary.
Again, the issue should be passed up to NHQ for further action.