My unit was issued an EF Johnson VHF not too long ago but training on the use of the radio was not provided. I'm ACUT, I know the theory. I'm looking for help on the use of the radio itself. I managed to figure out how to set repeaters for the ones that are preprogrammed for my wing. How do I set a different PL tone for a neighboring wing should I ever need to?
Since there are only 2 repeater input frequencies, and (IIRC) 38 CTCSS tones, the likelihood of a neighboring wing repeater being programmed into your radio is high. Just match the freq-tone pair of the neighbor with something already in your radio.
Which EFJ do you have, the mobile, or handheld? Do you have the "standard" channel plan recommended by NHQ, or did you gen up something on your own? Do you have the cable and software?
Simple answer: You can't. (As far as I know) Joe Tomasone on here would be a more authoritative person to answer, but I have one of these radios assigned to me, and a stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night....
From what I know, all programming of that radio is done via a special mic/control panel that only the wing commo has. BUT, all repeaters should be programmed in. They are not necessarily named, but, if you know the freqs/tones of the other wing's repeater, look in the VHF designator document on the secure comm site, and find it. It should be in the upper zones programmed in. Also, if it's programmed like the ones here in Florida, check CAP LIST 2 (zone 2) in the radio, and try CAP PA, PB, PC, and PD, these are the generic roam designators, and one should work.
As an aside, no matter what anyone tells you, take the time and wire the radio to the car battery directly. It's designed to work this way, and has an ignition sensor you can wire in, and the radio will work for a couple minutes after cutting the ignition, and then auto shut down. It works rather nice in my truck, and was worth the couple extra minutes of install time. The radio may be big and bulky, but it can certainly reach out and touch someone...
Quote from: SarDragon on August 28, 2008, 12:25:39 AM
Since there are only 2 repeater input frequencies, and (IIRC) 38 CTCSS tones, the likelihood of a neighboring wing repeater being programmed into your radio is high. Just match the freq-tone pair of the neighbor with something already in your radio.
Which EFJ do you have, the mobile, or handheld? Do you have the "standard" channel plan recommended by NHQ, or did you gen up something on your own? Do you have the cable and software?
Hand held. ACUT says only use the universal tone to light up a repeater long enough to ask what the unique tone is. Do we only have 2 dozen or so tones times the 2 input freqs? Is my radio set up with them all? As far as I know it's a standard plan.
Quote from: davidsinn on August 27, 2008, 10:56:49 PM
My unit was issued an EF Johnson VHF not too long ago but training on the use of the radio was not provided. I'm ACUT, I know the theory. I'm looking for help on the use of the radio itself. I managed to figure out how to set repeaters for the ones that are preprogrammed for my wing. How do I set a different PL tone for a neighboring wing should I ever need to?
You don't.
There should be a channel guide either with the radio or available from the Wing DC, your wing's programming should encompass everything you could reasonably need, CAP related, in your state.
Quote from: BigMojo on August 28, 2008, 12:25:59 AM
As an aside, no matter what anyone tells you, take the time and wire the radio to the car battery directly. It's designed to work this way, and has an ignition sensor you can wire in, and the radio will work for a couple minutes after cutting the ignition, and then auto shut down. It works rather nice in my truck, and was worth the couple extra minutes of install time. The radio may be big and bulky, but it can certainly reach out and touch someone...
Ditto. They don't want you to cut the harness, so don't, just extend it and wire it in.
OK...
Every corporate radio is required to be programmed with V1-V4 as the first four channels.
After that, it's up to whomever programmed it.
In FLWG, the new Johnsons have V1-V4, then each repeater in the Wing (Identified by the city it is in), followed by (IIRC) each possible VHF designator (which encompasses each PL tone on both repeater pairs). I know I have seen PA-PD. Haven't had to go much further yet, although I will take a look when I get back in town. i know we also have NOAA Weather Radio, marine frequencies, and other interoperability-minded stuff as well.
And yes, you are correct, if you are trying to access a repeater for which you do not know the proper tone, try the Universal tone and ask what the VHF designator for that repeater is. Unfortunately, unless you happen to get lucky and find a Comms type, you likely won't get someone who knows which it is. I'd have to look up the designator for my local repeater, to be honest (but I would know what to look for and where to find it!).
Remember, handhelds can use the Universal tone without restriction as long as they are transmitting under 6 watts and unless they are using an external antenna.
At any rate, Davidsinn is right - get with the Comms folks in your Wing and someone should have a guide as to what has been programmed in the radio.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 28, 2008, 02:16:21 AM
You don't.
There should be a channel guide either with the radio or available from the Wing DC, your wing's programming should encompass everything you could reasonably need, CAP related, in your state.
My wing DC told me to got to NTC. All that gives me is the map and tones for my wing. I need to make that match the radio. That's the problem I just over came. When I tune it it only shows me the tone, not what repeater it matches.
Tags - MIKE
Quote from: davidsinn on August 28, 2008, 10:28:38 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 28, 2008, 02:16:21 AMYou don't.
There should be a channel guide either with the radio or available from the Wing DC, your wing's programming should encompass everything you could reasonably need, CAP related, in your state.
My wing DC told me to got to NTC. All that gives me is the map and tones for my wing. I need to make that match the radio. That's the problem I just over came. When I tune it it only shows me the tone, not what repeater it matches.
Thats Odd I have a Tait and a EF Johnson both Wing Issued from FLWG the Tait is in my car and the EF is at St Pete Squadron we are all programmed the same
V1 - V4 then it starts with repeater by city like I know that from the TAMPA readout ORLANDO is 2 channels up and Daytona is 2 channels above orlando.
Of course these radio's just got reprogrammed by the FLWG DOK about 3 weeks ago so that might be why.
I know the EF Johnson Handheld if its the one I am thinking of only gives Numbers you'd need to contact wing DOK for that or your Group Comm Officer
Tags - MIKE
Quote from: FLCAP on August 28, 2008, 10:47:55 AM
I know the EF Johnson Handheld if its the one I am thinking of only gives Numbers you'd need to contact wing DOK for that or your Group Comm Officer
He's in INWG, not FLWG, we don't know how they program their radios there. That's the problem, he was referred by his Wing/DC to go to the NTC website - which doesn't have Wing-by-Wing programming data - just the information on what repeaters use which frequencies and tones.
Quote from: JoeTomasone on August 28, 2008, 01:06:34 PM
Quote from: FLCAP on August 28, 2008, 10:47:55 AM
I know the EF Johnson Handheld if its the one I am thinking of only gives Numbers you'd need to contact wing DOK for that or your Group Comm Officer
He's in INWG, not FLWG, we don't know how they program their radios there. That's the problem, he was referred by his Wing/DC to go to the NTC website - which doesn't have Wing-by-Wing programming data - just the information on what repeaters use which frequencies and tones.
Yep that's my problem. It took me a solid half hour of messing with the thing to figure out how to pick a tone. Now that I have a repeater list in my hand and a map to go with it I need to make a cheat sheet and tape it to the radio.
When I recieved my radio it was a very similar situation.
I took be a couple hours but I just made an excel spreadsheet and wrote down by bank& channel what I had in the radio.
Then, went to the designator reference sheet and made the whole thing opsec.
This may be your best bet.
Quote from: IceNine on August 28, 2008, 02:14:23 PM
When I recieved my radio it was a very similar situation.
I took be a couple hours but I just made an excel spreadsheet and wrote down by bank& channel what I had in the radio.
Then, went to the designator reference sheet and made the whole thing opsec.
This may be your best bet.
That's what I figured. I still need to know if I can set a new PL tone for a repeater out of my wing and how or if it's not possible to do so on the fly.
Setting new channels/tones on the fly is not possible. What's in the radio is what you have.
Will your Wing DC give you a listing of what's been programmed into the radio?
Quote from: SarDragon on August 28, 2008, 06:01:47 PM
Setting new channels/tones on the fly is not possible. What's in the radio is what you have.
Will your Wing DC give you a listing of what's been programmed into the radio?
He told me to access the NTC website for the repeater list. I'm heading down to wing this Saturday I'll see if I can get a full list out of him.
I'm going to guess he was telling you that so that you could get a list of the PL's that you have listed.
Then it is just a matter of figuring out which one's match.
I'm confused. If your concern is operating your radio out of your home wing, just use the universal tone all the time because your radio is only a 5 watt radio.
^Don't do that, its bad form, and a bad habit. You will get used to it and start doing it with higher wattage. Not to mention it is expressly prohibited to transmit on PC or PD for anything other than local repeater identification
Just go through and make your list, put both the location name, and the Designator (i.e V1, PC, etc) that way you will be able to go to any state, key up PC and ask what the local designator is.
It really isn't as difficult as it sounds
^Methinks someone is in need of refresher training in communications. As was said above
Quote from: JoeTomasone on August 28, 2008, 03:12:30 AM
Remember, handhelds can use the Universal tone without restriction as long as they are transmitting under 6 watts and unless they are using an external antenna.
I am also the squadron Comm officer ;D
The radio he is referring to is a 5 watt radio and thus is allowed to operate using the universal tone at all times
IF NECESSARY
Its clearly not necessary, because the tones are programmed in.
a little food for thought:
I am in AR wing SWR
Our radios have the surrounding states programmed in
What if I was to deploy to Florida when Gustaf comes ashore?
Without proper programming for Florida wing's repeaters, I would be unable to use my squadron's portable outside of simplex range. By using the universal tone I will be able to access any repeater within the short range my 5 watts of power in the portable, thus being functional on the net. Every PL tone is not necessarily programmed into every radio and repeaters are programmed by NAME into the menu's. The new frequency plan will go a long way toward rectifying this as the PL tone will be shown (IIRC) as of now it is necessary to use the universal tone as most of our comm assets are not programmed to the new plan. This question is timely in that there is a VERY good chance that we may have another Katrina like response requiring national assets, might be helpful to know how to talk to your fellow responders.
Also for what it is worth I received an email from our Wing Director of Emergency Services advising us to be ready.........
Check your gear and be prepared
Still not sold. The CTCSS may be programmed by name of the repeater. But under all of that is quite simply the CTCSS and freq's.
Make the sheet with the Designators for the CTCSS associated with the programming you have. IF, the PL for the local area repeater is not available, THEN, use PC.
Not taking the time to learn what you have does not dictate necessity, for use of the universal tone.
Not only that, but you can't always count on the repeater actually accepting the Universal tone. I know of a few repeaters that do not respond to it.
Further, not all repeaters OUTPUT the proper tones - so if your radio is programmed for PL decode, you won't be able to hear it ever if you can work it - unless you have a monitor button and plan on wearing it out.
Whenever I travel around the Wing, I check the local repeaters and report to the Wing/DC any discrepancies noted. It's a good habit for us Comm folks to get into. The universal tone so rarely gets used that if it's not working, it could go unnoticed - until it's needed.
Quote from: JoeTomasone on August 29, 2008, 05:35:33 AM
Not only that, but you can't always count on the repeater actually accepting the Universal tone. I know of a few repeaters that do not respond to it.
Further, not all repeaters OUTPUT the proper tones - so if your radio is programmed for PL decode, you won't be able to hear it ever if you can work it - unless you have a monitor button and plan on wearing it out.
Whenever I travel around the Wing, I check the local repeaters and report to the Wing/DC any discrepancies noted. It's a good habit for us Comm folks to get into. The universal tone so rarely gets used that if it's not working, it could go unnoticed - until it's needed.
[whistling quietly to myself]
Now I just wonder when Miami will get theirs back up (with correct tones)....
Update on the PL tones. I was messing with it last night and recording the setup into a spread sheet. It has 32 tones(2 Pri banks x 16 channels)(Also the same tones are repeated on the same channel for the 2 secondary banks) programed in. My wing only has 9-10 repeaters. When I select a tone it shows me the freq. Are there only 32 PL tones in use? I don't understand the letter designations(V1,PC, etc) you guys are tossing out? Are those in the FOUO comm reg?
Quote from: davidsinn on August 29, 2008, 02:29:12 PM
I don't understand the letter designations(V1,PC, etc) you guys are tossing out? Are those in the FOUO comm reg?
Check with your squadron communications officer for an explanation of the letter designations.
Quote from: Ricochet13 on August 29, 2008, 04:37:53 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on August 29, 2008, 02:29:12 PM
I don't understand the letter designations(V1,PC, etc) you guys are tossing out? Are those in the FOUO comm reg?
Check with your squadron communications officer for an explanation of the letter designations.
Or login to the NTC site (password-protected for CAP members only): https://ntc.cap.af.mil and look under the Communications Downloads for the VHF Designator list.
Quote from: Ricochet13 on August 29, 2008, 04:37:53 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on August 29, 2008, 02:29:12 PM
I don't understand the letter designations(V1,PC, etc) you guys are tossing out? Are those in the FOUO comm reg?
Check with your squadron communications officer for an explanation of the letter designations.
Useless. Our unit has only existed for 2 years and we've only had radios for a few months so he's inexperienced like the rest of the squadron.
Read the CAPR 100 series of regs. You'll find all the information (except the actual frequencies) in there. I strongly recommend your unit DC read them as well, esp 100-2 which deals with equipment management.
Quote from: davidsinn on August 29, 2008, 06:42:28 PM
Quote from: Ricochet13 on August 29, 2008, 04:37:53 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on August 29, 2008, 02:29:12 PM
I don't understand the letter designations(V1,PC, etc) you guys are tossing out? Are those in the FOUO comm reg?
Check with your squadron communications officer for an explanation of the letter designations.
Useless. Our unit has only existed for 2 years and we've only had radios for a few months so he's inexperienced like the rest of the squadron.
So a good excuse for your communications officer and you to work together. That's part of his function so give him a chance to learn too. ;D
BTW. . . my squadron's been rebuilding over the past year. There have been similar questions regarding frequencies and designators. Good excuse to do some joint learning.