CAP Talk

General Discussion => Membership => Topic started by: oak2007 on August 18, 2008, 01:01:45 AM

Title: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: oak2007 on August 18, 2008, 01:01:45 AM
A member had a health issue while on a AF mission, A PA was generated  assigning a investigator and the members name and health issue was included in the PA. This PA was sent out to every commander in the Wing. The PA was also posted on the Wings web site. Is this right? Do we give up are rights to privacy when we join?
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: Eclipse on August 18, 2008, 01:20:41 AM
You don't "give them up", they are simply not protected by any law or internal regulation (specifically).

HIPA only applies to Health Care Providers and employers, which we are neither for the majority of members.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: oak2007 on August 18, 2008, 01:26:40 AM
Except for the Federal Privacy Act
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: RiverAux on August 18, 2008, 01:32:03 AM
Well, I think that line can be blurred a bit since CAP members can be the providers of medical care in certain situations and also CAP may have some sort of obligations as an "employer" when we're talking about people injured while on CAP time that may make claims against CAP.  An interesting topic.  
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: Eclipse on August 18, 2008, 01:33:39 AM
Quote from: oak2007 on August 18, 2008, 01:26:40 AM
Except for the Federal Privacy Act

Assuming you are talking about Public Law No. 93-579, it does not apply to CAP as we are not a federal agency.

If you're referring to something else, perhaps a cite in the original post with an assertion instead of a question might move things along a little faster.


Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: oak2007 on August 18, 2008, 01:38:12 AM
All I am saying would you want your personal health issues made public By CAP that you deem private
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: Eclipse on August 18, 2008, 01:38:57 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on August 18, 2008, 01:32:03 AM
Well, I think that line can be blurred a bit since CAP members can be the providers of medical care in certain situations and also CAP may have some sort of obligations as an "employer" when we're talking about people injured while on CAP time that may make claims against CAP.  An interesting topic. 

People injured on AFAMS are covered by FECA in which case they care considered direct employees of the federal government through CAP.  CAP is not the employer in that case, but simply an agent to the "employment" by the USAF (likely viewed as a contractor situation).

When on corporate missions, there is no employment compensation or even health care coverage provide by CAP, Inc.  All risk and personal liability is assumed by the member with no employee relationship assumed.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: RiverAux on August 18, 2008, 01:39:11 AM
Quote from: oak2007 on August 18, 2008, 01:26:40 AM
Except for the Federal Privacy Act
Except that CAP doesn't believe that this applies to us.  This statment was in a 2002 BoG minutes http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_082503141517.pdf and refers to something said by the CAP General Counsel:
QuoteThere was also clarification that the Privacy Act does not apply to Civil Air Patrol.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: FW on August 18, 2008, 01:39:31 AM
Nope, were not covered by the Federal Privacy Act nor are we covered by the Freedom of Information Act.  We're not covered by HIPPA nor are we covered by OSHA.  However, some of us are covered by NOMEX when we fly and others are covered by mud after we go out with a ground team. (sorry, I just couldn't help it ;) ).

BTW; HIPPA only covers health care facilities who engage in "electronic claims" transmissions.  CAP does not deal with this in any shape or form.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: Eclipse on August 18, 2008, 01:41:32 AM
Quote from: oak2007 on August 18, 2008, 01:38:12 AM
All I am saying would you want your personal health issues made public By CAP that you deem private

In the course of my CAP duties I am required to disclose a variety of information both health and personal to a variety of people.  It comes with the territory and its part of the game.

Frankly, there is no such thing as "privacy" anymore if you expect to actually participate in modern society.  Get used to it.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: RiverAux on August 18, 2008, 01:42:46 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 18, 2008, 01:38:57 AM
When on corporate missions, there is no employment compensation or even health care coverage provide by CAP, Inc.  All risk and personal liability is assumed by the member with no employee relationship assumed.
There is medical coverage while on corporate missions CAPR900-5
QuoteSECTION E—SENIOR MEMBER AND CADET ACCIDENT, LIFE AND MEDICAL BENEFITS—AUTOMATIC COVERAGE
18. General. As a benefit of membership, CAP provides a self-insured accident coverage for both senior members and cadets, which provides benefits in the event of reportable injury or death that occur during CAP authorized activities. This is a self-insured program paid out of CAP's general fund and not a commercial insurance policy.
19. Senior and Cadet Benefits:
a.
Accidental Death - $10,000
b.
Medical Expenses - $8,000 less a $50 deductible per claim
20. Medical Expense Benefit Excess to Existing Coverage. The CAP medical expense benefit is excess to any existing medical coverage available to senior or cadet members including family or employer type "Blue Cross" or HMO coverages. These other coverages must be exhausted before CAP provided self-insured medical expense benefits apply. The CAP medical expense benefits will pay (a) if there is no other applicable insurance, or (b) for that portion of the other policy coverage not paid such as coinsurance deductible (not including standard deductibles), etc., up to $8,000 per occurrence. All medical expense benefit payments are subject to the $50 per claim deductible.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: Eclipse on August 18, 2008, 01:42:52 AM
It might interest you to know that the ADA doesn't apply to CAP, either, however the BOG wrote a letter to Congress in which it agreed to operate internally as if it applied.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: Eclipse on August 18, 2008, 01:44:25 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on August 18, 2008, 01:42:46 AM
There is medical coverage while on corporate missions CAPR900-5

I recline corrected, good to know, actually.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: oak2007 on August 18, 2008, 01:46:32 AM
So member who have impedance issued show be open for general discussion at the next national convention
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: Eclipse on August 18, 2008, 01:50:16 AM
Quote from: oak2007 on August 18, 2008, 01:46:32 AM
So member who have impedance issued show be open for general discussion at the next national convention

???
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: oak2007 on August 18, 2008, 01:55:03 AM
So if you have a impedance issue I will be sure to post it here because  you just gave up you right to keep anything privet when joining CAP
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: FW on August 18, 2008, 01:56:41 AM
Quote from: oak2007 on August 18, 2008, 01:46:32 AM
So member who have impedance issued show be open for general discussion at the next national convention

I have no idea what that means.  However, IMHO, a member's health issues should not be published for all to see.  It's ethically wrong and may seem to violate the spirit of our ethics regulation and core values.  Then again, if a health issue was the reason for the loss of airman's or pic privileges, Publishing the change in status would be necessary.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: Eclipse on August 18, 2008, 01:57:19 AM
Impedance issue?  Like the the ratio of my voltage phasor to my electric current phasor is off?
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: oak2007 on August 18, 2008, 02:05:51 AM
Exactly
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: lordmonar on August 18, 2008, 02:31:15 AM
What's a PA?
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: RiverAux on August 18, 2008, 02:39:13 AM
Personnel Authorization
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: oak2007 on August 18, 2008, 03:36:03 AM
I think CAP has a cooperate responsibility to keep all of its members information private . this includes Medical. There was a time when we gave CAP our Social Security numbers. Is that something we all want out there. Where do we draw the line?
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: SarDragon on August 18, 2008, 03:54:34 AM
Quote from: oak2007 on August 18, 2008, 03:36:03 AM
I think CAP has a cooperate responsibility to keep all of its members information private . this includes Medical. There was a time when we gave CAP our Social Security numbers. Is that something we all want out there. Where do we draw the line?

We still give CAP our SSANs. It's an entry on every Form 12 and Form 15 submitted to NHQ. The SSAN is the master tracking number used by NHQ, but is used only internally, and in truncated form when dealing with the AF externally. The reintroduction of a separate membership number (CAPID) was a direct result of the desire to protect the privacy of the membership.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: chiles on August 25, 2008, 07:35:49 PM
Quote from: FW on August 18, 2008, 01:39:31 AM

BTW; HIPPA only covers health care facilities who engage in "electronic claims" transmissions.  CAP does not deal with this in any shape or form.

HIPAA, and you're absolutely correct. If you'll excuse me, I have to go check my impedance.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: Flying Pig on August 26, 2008, 12:25:19 AM
Look, heres the deal.  lets forget about HIPPA, and all of the other regs that CAP get consumed with.  The issue here is that a member, while serving CAP had a medical condition develop on a mission.  A wing wide email was generated listing this persons name, Sq. and CAP ID number and the medical condition that developed.  All that is being asked is that next time a little tact be used when sending out a wing wide email with someone's personal medical conditions emblazoned across it for all to see.  I really don't think thats to much to ask.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: FW on August 26, 2008, 12:46:01 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 26, 2008, 12:25:19 AM
Look, heres the deal.  lets forget about HIPPA, and all of the other regs that CAP get consumed with.  The issue here is that a member, while serving CAP had a medical condition develop on a mission.  A wing wide email was generated listing this persons name, Sq. and CAP ID number and the medical condition that developed.  All that is being asked is that next time a little tact be used when sending out a wing wide email with someone's personal medical conditions emblazoned across it for all to see.  I really don't think thats to much to ask.

Once we got through the meaning of "impedance", we agree totally.  There is no reason why anyone's medical condition should be made public for all.  I think, ohm, there should be no resistance to this current thinking.  Or, maybe we should increase the wattage of this thought and clarify the reasoning behind this thread in the first place.  
Then again, I don't have much capacitance for any more puns.   >:D
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: Gunner C on August 26, 2008, 06:51:08 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 26, 2008, 12:25:19 AM
Look, heres the deal.  lets forget about HIPPA, and all of the other regs that CAP get consumed with.  The issue here is that a member, while serving CAP had a medical condition develop on a mission.  A wing wide email was generated listing this persons name, Sq. and CAP ID number and the medical condition that developed.  All that is being asked is that next time a little tact be used when sending out a wing wide email with someone's personal medical conditions emblazoned across it for all to see.  I really don't think thats to much to ask.

FP is 100% correct here IMO.  The root cause of this is the (over)use of mailing lists in CAP.  Things that should be sent to commanders individually are sent out on wing-wide mailing lists (effectively making commander irrelavant).  The pro forma use of these lists causes all sorts of problems - this is one of the worst examples, though.

GC
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: CadetProgramGuy on August 26, 2008, 08:14:48 AM
Actually it is HIPPA (Health Insurance Privacy and Portability Act)

And if you give first aid or higher level care to anyone, you may have to deal with it.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: FW on August 26, 2008, 11:03:23 AM
Guy, unless your going to charge for your services using electronic claims and, use your national H.P. number, your licence number and, your SSn or TID, HIPPA is not in the radar. (Talk about privacy ;D)  

We, as members, should expect some measure of privacy when it comes to our personal information, especially information not having any bearing on our mission capability.  CAPR 110-1 governs our "official" behavior for electronic (email, internet) communications.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: RiverAux on August 26, 2008, 02:04:19 PM
Quote from: Gunner C on August 26, 2008, 06:51:08 AM
  The root cause of this is the (over)use of mailing lists in CAP.  Things that should be sent to commanders individually are sent out on wing-wide mailing lists (effectively making commander irrelavant).  The pro forma use of these lists causes all sorts of problems - this is one of the worst examples, though.
GC
Strongly disagree.  In general, one of the worst problems in CAP has been the bottlenecking of information in the chain of command.  Being able to get information out directly to the members very quickly is a HUGE benefit to CAP members.  I don't know how often in my CAP career that I've heard members complain about not learning about some valuable training opportunity because the information never got passed down to them through the chain.  That is nowhere near as big a problem as it used to be, primarily because of these lists.

Now, I agree that in this particular case, a wing-wide email wasn't appropriate.   There are some things that not everybody needs to know.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: D2SK on August 26, 2008, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on August 26, 2008, 08:14:48 AM
Actually it is HIPPA (Health Insurance Privacy and Portability Act)

And if you give first aid or higher level care to anyone, you may have to deal with it.

No...

It's Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA).

Google it.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: FW on August 26, 2008, 04:09:10 PM
 ::)  Yep, for the literalists out there, it is H.I.P.A.A however, every one calls it "HIPPA".  Let's put this part of the discussion to rest, OK?
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: Flying Pig on August 26, 2008, 11:05:15 PM
^ Yeah guys, this could be a good discussion.  Lets not turn this into a grammar correcting thread.  We get the point.
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: Eclipse on August 26, 2008, 11:14:02 PM
I don't see what discussion there is to have.

Common sense, common decency, and respect for our members should have commanders and staff protecting private information, but there does not appear to be any regulatory requirement for that protection.

There is more to be said in the regs regarding test control than privacy protection.

HIPPA doesn't apply, nor the privacy act, so there's not much left to try and apply.

Take my word, you do not want to introduce HIPPA-level information protection,
Title: Re: Privacy Rights of Members
Post by: chiles on August 28, 2008, 09:30:45 PM
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on August 26, 2008, 08:14:48 AM
Actually it is HIPPA (Health Insurance Privacy and Portability Act)

And if you give first aid or higher level care to anyone, you may have to deal with it.

No, it's HIPAA (http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/) Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996. If you provide medical services and have to provide patient charting, particularly electronic charting or insurance information transmission you have to deal with it. If you are in CAP and provide first aid, you don't. We don't charge patients, we don't charge insurance, we don't charge anyone. And when was the last time you provided charting on a CAP mission as a CAP officer that was required to be transmitted, in any form, to any particular medical insurance company other than that for those of CAP people injured during a mission?

I do agree that the safety forms do not necessitate the identification of a victim. I had to do 9 of them at Encampment this year and I didn't add a name and they never asked. We have hard copies at Wing of the State required form. There's no need for every safe officer in the world to know that Captain John Q CAP has a hemorrhoid explode after his fifth cup of coffee.