If you remember the older CAP Corporate Service Uniform guide I posted here a while back, here's an updated version to include the latest and greatest information.
Please remember that this is an unofficial wear guide; it's only designed to assist the CAP member to properly wear the uniform. It is not a substitute for and does not replace current official CAP regulations, policy letters and region/wing supplements.
Much of this guide can also be applied to wear of AF-style uniforms; I haven't created one - yet. I know some dislike intensely the Tony Pineda Corporate Service Uniform, but like it or not, it's here to stay. At least wear it correctly - in fact, any CAP uniform - if you do.
you the man
Chuck -
With your permission, it has been added for posterity to the Documents Library on the CAP Patches website...
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library.html
What an awesome resource for Officers wishing to wear this series of uniform, especially with the absence of a current 39-1. There should be such a quality and concise guide for ALL of the uniforms - redundancy be [darn]ed!
Thanks for your work, and great job!
- Ace
Capt Corway,
Please correct me if I'm mis-interpreting the "condensed" ICL that was published in January.
It states (
emphasis mine)
QuoteThis double-breasted coat will be worn by senior member officers with
metal grade insignia, the silver nametag and CAP ribbons, badges and devices as
currently authorized on the Air Force Service Coat.
but the guide you created says
QuoteMilitary ribbons earned (in their proper order of precedence before any CAP ribbons) may be worn.
To me that says no military ribbons allowed. No?
This was the reason for my as yet unfinished Wear of Military Awards (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5575.0), because as I recall something came out that said military awards could be worn if they were authorized to be worn on "civilian clothing". This was back when the Portal was still up, as I posted a similar reply there.
This might be another case of something killed via revision, or just some rumor started by a phone call to NHQ. The Uniform Powerpoint mentions 'em though.
Quote from: MIKEThis was the reason for my as yet unfinished Wear of Military Awards (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5575.0)
Whoa, never even thought of it from the other direction before.
Even if CAP says, "yeah"... USA/USN/USAF/USMC/USCG might say, "neah".
Not that we [as in CAP] should be policing uniforms for the service branches, it's nice to know that a simple statement about checking with the "other guy" first might have been considered for one of our publications.
Mike, I think you are close to being able to publish an individual "dissertation" of sorts for our prior military service and actively serving membership. Make it pretty with pictures and a crosswords puzzle! Well done, sorry I didn't see it earlier.
Aside, the guide in question should continue to expound upon only CAP's directives - despite possible contradictions to another organization's policies. That is for another battle at a different time in the same war.
-Ace
SO, do we like the new Corporate Uniform more than the Blue Blazer set up? I'm thinking about buying one of the CAP New Corporates but I haven't seen one except in pictures. It's rather tough to tell. The Service cap looks very Navy. I can't decide, any help?
I wouldn't be caught dead in either.
Thanks Mike... Then I guess I'll come to the Christmas Mess nekked.
Quote from: Smithsonia on July 28, 2008, 10:09:06 PM
Thanks Mike... Then I guess I'll come to the Christmas Mess nekked.
ummm.....a strategically placed bow in a certain location would be more than appropriate ;)
Quote from: Smithsonia on July 28, 2008, 09:50:28 PM
SO, do we like the new Corporate Uniform more than the Blue Blazer set up? I'm thinking about buying one of the CAP New Corporates but I haven't seen one except in pictures. It's rather tough to tell. The Service cap looks very Navy. I can't decide, any help?
Saw one person at a wing function showing it off. As far as appearance goes, it's just as good as the Air Force variant service dress. They both look military enough. I don't care for all the silver braid, but it's not too bad.
It doesn't look like a security guard uniform, which I think is the reason it grew on me.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on July 28, 2008, 08:03:04 PM
Capt Corway,
Please correct me if I'm mis-interpreting the "condensed" ICL that was published in January.
It states (emphasis mine)
QuoteThis double-breasted coat will be worn by senior member officers with
metal grade insignia, the silver nametag and CAP ribbons, badges and devices as
currently authorized on the Air Force Service Coat.
but the guide you created says
QuoteMilitary ribbons earned (in their proper order of precedence before any CAP ribbons) may be worn.
To me that says no military ribbons allowed. No?
According to the presentation from Susie Parker in Aug 07, military ribbons can be worn on the corporate uniforms:
http://level2.cap.gov/visitors/member_services/uniform_information/
Quote from: jimmydeanno on July 28, 2008, 08:03:04 PM
Capt Corway,
Please correct me if I'm mis-interpreting the "condensed" ICL that was published in January.
It states (emphasis mine)
QuoteThis double-breasted coat will be worn by senior member officers with
metal grade insignia, the silver nametag and CAP ribbons, badges and devices as
currently authorized on the Air Force Service Coat.
but the guide you created says
QuoteMilitary ribbons earned (in their proper order of precedence before any CAP ribbons) may be worn.
To me that says no military ribbons allowed. No?
I too saw the powerpoint and called NHQ. Ms. Parker informed me that the change was indeed real and military ribbons are authorized for wear on the CAP corporate uniform combinations (including white shirt/blue pants) IF the awarding service authorizes the wear of ribbons on civilian clothing (BTW AR 670-1 allows veterans with WARTIME service to wear their ribbons and awards on civilian clothes)
I posted this to KB a while ago with no response.
There are 2 distinct ways of interpreting this portion.
1 is just as you have which say only CAP ribbons are authorized
2 is that ribbons, badges and devices authorized for the AF service coat are authorized.
It would be a little out of the ordinary to authorize military badges but specify CAP ribbons
From what it says specifically, RM ribbons are authorized but RM badges are not.
I'll make the change to clarify the wear of ribbons. PTB says we can, then I don't see any major heartburn over it.
So the service cap of the CSU has to have a silver braid? But the same cap on the AF blues has a black chinstrap?
Correct.
Heh - that pic of (then) Col. Courter and HWSRN shows him wearing the USAF General's buckle.
And? it may look funny but its authorized
Quote from: IceNine on August 13, 2008, 03:12:19 PM
And? it may look funny but its authorized
However, if we follow the letter of the law on CAPM 39-1, it's not listed, so it's technically not authorized. Considering there's so few general officers in CAP, the RealAirForce probably overlooks that bit o' blingage.
Re: 39-1 table 2.1 section 4.
CSU...McPeak...CSU...McPeak......hmmmmmmmmm
Quote from: IceNine on August 14, 2008, 03:58:02 PM
Re: 39-1 table 2.1 section 4.
I stand corrected. Now for fifty lashes with a wet noodle! ;D
Quote from: stratoflyer on August 14, 2008, 05:54:12 PM
CSU...McPeak...CSU...McPeak......hmmmmmmmmm
It ain't really that bad... now if they ditched the gaudy silver sleeve braid (I don't mind it on the bus driver cap chin strap) for dark blue it'll be a whole lot better. The lapels need to be narrowed down a little so it doesn't hide most of your ribbon rack as well.
Quote from: IceNine on August 14, 2008, 03:58:02 PM
Re: 39-1 table 2.1 section 4.
Sorry, grasshopper, spin again.
That table only references USAF service dress, not distinctive uniforms:
"Men's Service, Mess Dress, and Semiformal Uniforms"(http://www.uniforms-4u.com/Productimages/6165/air_force_general_mirror_finish_buckle_and_tip_706.jpg)
The photo I am referring has HWSRN in the CSU with short-sleeves, the CSU, in fact, is not referenced in any way in 39-1, however there is a rule about not mixing USAF items and distinctive items, and that general's buckle is a USAF uniform item, where the CSU is a distinctive combination.
(http://www.cap.gov/documents/Courter_Pineda__Victory__lrjpg.jpg)
Ergo...
Chuck, I think you're exactly right, though it might be better not to even reference the item in your CSU document.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 15, 2008, 12:27:14 AM
Quote from: IceNine on August 14, 2008, 03:58:02 PM
Re: 39-1 table 2.1 section 4.
and that general's buckle is a USAF uniform item, where the CSU is a distinctive combination.
Aren't the rank slides on the CSU an AF item.....?
Quote from: davidsinn on August 15, 2008, 02:57:05 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 15, 2008, 12:27:14 AM
Quote from: IceNine on August 14, 2008, 03:58:02 PM
Re: 39-1 table 2.1 section 4.
and that general's buckle is a USAF uniform item, where the CSU is a distinctive combination.
Aren't the rank slides on the CSU an AF item.....?
Hmmm...an interesting point, though they
are explicitly authorized in the ICLs that create the uniform.
Same goes for the metal grade insignia, though neither identifies the actual service and I've seen both in
use on police and similar uniform.
Certainly an arguable point...
Quote from: Eclipse on August 15, 2008, 03:05:26 AM
Hmmm...an interesting point, though they are explicitly authorized in the ICLs that create the uniform.
Same goes for the metal grade insignia, though neither identifies the actual service and I've seen both in
use on police and similar uniform.
Certainly an arguable point...
Exactimundo... the USAF does not have a monopoly on the style of grade insignia. It's pretty much the same throughout the U.S. regardless of service (Squiddie insignia differences notwithstanding) and used by military and paramilitary units. I can see the Air Force having kittens sideways if they added the Hap Arnold or 'tangram' eagle to shoulder mark grades; then I'd say it's distinctive enough to be mil-only.
I'll tweak the CSU wear guide appropriately to identify the GOBB as a distinctive USAF item which shouldn't be worn with the CSU. (Though I think the older-style GOBB looked even nicer than the current Hap's wings GOBB.)