Anyone seen this patch before??
I think with a little photoshop work it could be adopted for us. Just add AUX after USAF.....
Discuss.
wouldn't work for me
What are the feet for?
And why would we want to adopt this same patch?
Quote from: Tubacap on July 13, 2008, 10:00:43 PM
What are the feet for?
The green footprints are the unofficial symbol of USAF Pararescue. They stem from the days of the Vietnam War, when PJs flew on Jolly Green Giant helicopters. When PJs want to leave their mark, the green feet are usually painted on the ramp, sidewalk, etc.
Personally, I'd nix that patch, as it bears too much of a resemblance to the PJ beret emblem. I know, I know, then why are we using a variation of the PJ emblem for the PJOC activity patch? ;D
I'd be all for making an aircrew patch, perhaps, making it a requirement to have 10 actuals prior to award or something, but saying "rescue pilot" for us is a little much. We're more "search and locate" pilots.
Quote from: SJFedor on July 13, 2008, 10:12:47 PM
We're more "search and locate" pilots.
Excuse me?!?! I think you meant
SEXY search and locate pilots.......thank you!
No, sorry....that would be a complete plagarism of the Pararescue emblem. The green foot prints are the symbol of the PJ's as stated above.
Since we are the USAF Aux, we should probably shy away from modeling our patches after their elite rescue units. And considering the entire backdrop of the emblem is a parachute.......I dont see it working out well, nor are we an organization that operates world wide.
A certain CAP group already stole the "that other may live" phrase. I bet no one knows where that comes from anyway.
Anderson and his Albatross are part of the 650 men and 45 planes and helicopters of the Third Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Group. Their primary mission: retrieving U.S. airmen shot down over the North. Their motto:
"That Others May Live." Commanded from Saigon's Tan Son Nhut airport, the Third's mercy craft are scattered at radio readiness from Danang to Thailand. Since they set up shop in Viet Nam at the end of 1964, they have rescued, from hostile land and unforgiving sea, 453 Americans—287 this year alone, 31 in the past month. Since the air war began, the Communists have downed 291 U.S. planes. Roughly 80% of the crews manage to eject and parachute away from their doomed aircraft; thanks to the Third, and the Navy's own rescue service, most are soon in U.S. hands. Of 325 who have gone down, 34 U.S. airmen are known to be prisoners in North Viet Nam.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,836075,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,836075,00.html)
Time 1966
8)
I wouldn't say it was plagiarized. From what I know it is an actual patch belonging to a collector. I assume it comes from a rescue squadron. The motto "That others may live" is used by Rescue Squadrons not just PJs. In fact I have a challenge coin and shirt from the 66th Rescue Sq at Nellis AFB that has the motto. The 66th are the pilots/aircraft that support the PJs of the 58th RQS.
Many folks in the SAR business use variations of the different PJ symbols. I know of a female capt from AFRCC who was going to get a green footprint tatoo. She is not a PJ (there are no female PJs).
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on July 13, 2008, 10:10:38 PM
Quote from: Tubacap on July 13, 2008, 10:00:43 PM
What are the feet for?
When PJs want to leave their mark, the green feet are usually painted on the ramp, sidewalk, etc.
Don't forget about the tradition of tattooing of the feet on the buttocks of PJ's.
I really don't like trying to compare what CAP does to the PJ's. We are nowhere near their level of training or abilities. We can make up our own stuff and not try to take a piece of their prestige for our own.
As for the saying "that others may live," that's been taken by the entire SAR community. It's spread far beyond the PJ's or the military. SAR people for the most part do SAR so "that others may live." I don't think it's a really bad thing that that saying has spread. If you think about the whole saying, "These things we do, that others may live," you will think of the difference between us and PJ's or the Coast Guard. The things we do don't compare to what they do and in that realization we honor what they do and understand we aren't at that level and we show that respect.
Smokey...
I wouldn't tell her there are no women PJ's.
http://www.stargate-skywatch.com/pmwiki.php?n=Stargate.RowenaSilverhawk (http://www.stargate-skywatch.com/pmwiki.php?n=Stargate.RowenaSilverhawk)
Quote from: Smokey on July 13, 2008, 11:29:45 PM
I wouldn't say it was plagiarized. From what I know it is an actual patch belonging to a collector. I assume it comes from a rescue squadron. The motto "That others may live" is used by Rescue Squadrons not just PJs. In fact I have a challenge coin and shirt from the 66th Rescue Sq at Nellis AFB that has the motto. The 66th are the pilots/aircraft that support the PJs of the 58th RQS.
Many folks in the SAR business use variations of the different PJ symbols. I know of a female capt from AFRCC who was going to get a green footprint tatoo. She is not a PJ (there are no female PJs).
Id say that would be extremely poor taste. The only people who use the green feet are PJ's that I recall.
Yes, the motto "That others may live" is used widely in the SAR community, I would think that it would be a bad idea for CAP to adopt that given our Aux relationship with the AF, and our relationship with the ParaRescue community in the way of PJOC. I think its a little much. For the most part, the units who use that motto, our missions are nothing like what they perform ie. Coast Guard Rescue Swimmers, etc.
Side Note...Coastie rescue swimmers have a slightly different motto...it is "So Others May live".
I'm not really opposed to a SAR pilot patch, but I wouldn't take the AF patch. Besides, it would conflict with the necessity that it be distinctive.
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on July 13, 2008, 10:10:38 PM
Quote from: Tubacap on July 13, 2008, 10:00:43 PM
What are the feet for?
The green footprints are the unofficial symbol of USAF Pararescue. They stem from the days of the Vietnam War, when PJs flew on Jolly Green Giant helicopters. When PJs want to leave their mark, the green feet are usually painted on the ramp, sidewalk, etc.
Personally, I'd nix that patch, as it bears too much of a resemblance to the PJ beret emblem. I know, I know, then why are we using a variation of the PJ emblem for the PJOC activity patch? ;D
Ok, so if the feet symbolize the PJ's then why is the patch for the
pilot? The pilot is not a PJ. He just flies the bird. his feet never touch the ground
http://googlesightseeing.com/maps?p=1014&c=&t=k&hl=en&ll=28.938284,47.798633&z=18 (http://googlesightseeing.com/maps?p=1014&c=&t=k&hl=en&ll=28.938284,47.798633&z=18)
PJ's left their mark on base in Kuwait.
CAP is mentioned on the pararescue.com Q & A.
http://www.pararescue.com/featurettes/05.asp (http://www.pararescue.com/featurettes/05.asp)
They've already got wings. What more is needed?
Quote from: flyguy06 on July 14, 2008, 02:27:32 AM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on July 13, 2008, 10:10:38 PM
Quote from: Tubacap on July 13, 2008, 10:00:43 PM
What are the feet for?
The green footprints are the unofficial symbol of USAF Pararescue. They stem from the days of the Vietnam War, when PJs flew on Jolly Green Giant helicopters. When PJs want to leave their mark, the green feet are usually painted on the ramp, sidewalk, etc.
Personally, I'd nix that patch, as it bears too much of a resemblance to the PJ beret emblem. I know, I know, then why are we using a variation of the PJ emblem for the PJOC activity patch? ;D
Ok, so if the feet symbolize the PJ's then why is the patch for the pilot? The pilot is not a PJ. He just flies the bird. his feet never touch the ground
The Feet:
Back in the 1960's there was a brand of canned vegetable called "Green Giant." They had an advertising campaign that started with magazine ads about the flavor and purity of vegetables grown "In the valley of the Jolly Green Giant" and culminated with TV ads that ended with a green giat laughing (Ho Ho Ho) and a can of Green Giant beans appearing on the screen
A rock and roll group called "The Kingsmen" recorded a song about the Green Giant:
"Heard about the Jolly Green Giant?
He's so big and mean...
He just stands there laughing with his hands on his hips,
Then he hits you with a can of beans!"
So, when the big helicopter that the Air Force used for rescue and heavy tactical lift appeared in Vietnam, painted in OD, the troops just sort of naturally called it the "Jolly Green Giant."
That started the tradition of using the green feet to symbolize the Jolly Green Giant. They couldn't use the Green Giant image, because it was copyrighted, but the feet were another story. Nobody copyrighted a green footprint.
(http://captalk.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5532.0;attach=2078)
My take on it.
I wouldn't go for that patch. Like others have said, it's too PJ/CSAR for my taste.
As for the green feet, I wore green feet on my embroidered name tag for my flightsuit, just as every single person did in the PJ squadron, but I was a life support guy. While the feet are more or less a PJ-specific emblem, when I was at the 920th Rescue Wing, specifically in the 308th Rescue Squadron (a PJ squadron), everyone in the squadron walks around with the feet, everywhere. From squadron hats to coins, tshirts and of course, on their flight suit nametags.
The "that others may live" saying, as others have stated, really has spread throughout the Search and Rescue community and I wouldn't say it is copyrighted by USAF Pararescue.
I think a pretty squared away CAP "rescue pilot/aircrew" patch or emblem could certainly be made that could look totally high speed, but I would personally create a new one from scratch. YMMV.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on July 14, 2008, 02:41:51 AM
Quote from: flyguy06 on July 14, 2008, 02:27:32 AM
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on July 13, 2008, 10:10:38 PM
Quote from: Tubacap on July 13, 2008, 10:00:43 PM
What are the feet for?
The green footprints are the unofficial symbol of USAF Pararescue. They stem from the days of the Vietnam War, when PJs flew on Jolly Green Giant helicopters. When PJs want to leave their mark, the green feet are usually painted on the ramp, sidewalk, etc.
Personally, I'd nix that patch, as it bears too much of a resemblance to the PJ beret emblem. I know, I know, then why are we using a variation of the PJ emblem for the PJOC activity patch? ;D
Ok, so if the feet symbolize the PJ's then why is the patch for the pilot? The pilot is not a PJ. He just flies the bird. his feet never touch the ground
The Feet:
Back in the 1960's there was a brand of canned vegetable called "Green Giant." They had an advertising campaign that started with magazine ads about the flavor and purity of vegetables grown "In the valley of the Jolly Green Giant" and culminated with TV ads that ended with a green giat laughing (Ho Ho Ho) and a can of Green Giant beans appearing on the screen
A rock and roll group called "The Kingsmen" recorded a song about the Green Giant:
"Heard about the Jolly Green Giant?
He's so big and mean...
He just stands there laughing with his hands on his hips,
Then he hits you with a can of beans!"
So, when the big helicopter that the Air Force used for rescue and heavy tactical lift appeared in Vietnam, painted in OD, the troops just sort of naturally called it the "Jolly Green Giant."
That started the tradition of using the green feet to symbolize the Jolly Green Giant. They couldn't use the Green Giant image, because it was copyrighted, but the feet were another story. Nobody copyrighted a green footprint.
You dont have to explain the Green Giant commercials. Everybody over the age of 30 has seen (Ho hO ho...Green Giant) commercials ;D
^ I'm 26.
Ho Ho Ho......Green Giant.
I'm trying to see the problem that this badge is the solution to, but I can't seem to find it.
Quote from: arajca on July 15, 2008, 02:19:13 AM
I'm trying to see the problem that this badge is the solution to, but I can't seem to find it.
umm.....ya, we need more purple patches!
Quote from: mikeylikey on July 15, 2008, 02:26:02 AM
umm.....ya, we need more purple patches!
That's probably just a bad picture. It's actually a sliver(ish) patch.
(http://www.aeromed-hamburg.de/Patches/USA/USAF%20Pararescue.jpg)
There are also color versions...
(http://www.pjsinnam.com/images/Patches/orange%20PJ%20patch.bmp)
(http://www.afsoc.af.mil/shared/media/ggallery/hires/AFG-051109-003.jpg)
(http://www.pjsinnam.com/Medals/Images/ARRS%20patch.gif)
(http://www.military-graphics.com/JOLLYGREEN.png)
I too am in the boat saying that CAP should have its own patch/slogan/motto and not steal from the AF PJs. When we get an aircrew that can meet their standards, then we'll think about having a bada$$ patch for the certification.
It can't be that hard to come up with a tough looking CAP patch and such if it's needed and deserved... Just haven't seen one yet.
Quote from: arajca on July 15, 2008, 02:19:13 AM
I'm trying to see the problem that this badge is the solution to, but I can't seem to find it.
I can't either. Got so many people that are patch happy, it doesn't make sense.
What surprises me is that we have seniors that would predominantly wear it that want it so bad. I can understand cadets wanting the bling, but seniors? Isn't a set of wings enough?
Quote from: Hawk200 on July 15, 2008, 11:49:20 AM
Got so many people that are patch happy, it doesn't make sense.
How about we adopt a vest to sew our patches on that can be put on over our uniforms for travel to and from unit meetings. Then while actually doing something the vest is removed. I recommend something like this... >:D
(http://www.nezperceleather.com/LeatherRepair/MotorcyclePatches/Images/MotorcycleVestPatches_Front.jpg)
We can call the Flair Vests!
The patch in subject is definitely a No-Go. It is a pararescue community patch and we aren't pararescue community.
I think a simple tab that says "ES Pilot" would work great on a flightsuit to identify pilots who are MPs. The tab would only be worn if current as MP (unlike wings which stay on forever).
On my original posting I asked if anyone had seen this patch before. I had not.
I wasn't trying to compare the level of our skill/training to that of a PJ. I have a friend who is a former PJ (same class as PJ Wilkerson of Blackhawk Down). I know I could never make it through"superman school".
The Angel of Mercy and motto "That others may live" has been generically adopted by the entire SAR community.
Quote from: Smokey on July 13, 2008, 09:44:10 PM
Anyone seen this patch before??
I think with a little photoshop work it could be adopted for us. Just add AUX after USAF.....
Discuss.
Actually, you suggested we add "AUX" to the patch and then adopt it for our use. We all agree that many SAR organizations use the motto, however, we are the only ones who are the Air Force Aux. We have aenough patches and ribbons and badges.
Why do we even need an "ES Pilot" Patch. We have ES patches. This reminds me of the thread a while back where someone had a "Counter Narcotics Flight Crew" Patch. The only people who care about what our patches say are other CAP members. And in reality, most of them don't care either.
Trust me, I'm not big on adding a bunch of patches to our flightuits. I hate the ES patches folks put on the chest area.
I guess my thought was more of a t-shirt kind of thing.
We already go at patch.....it's got a dog on it. ;D
Quote from: Smokey on July 15, 2008, 05:45:50 PM
Trust me, I'm not big on adding a bunch of patches to our flightuits. I hate the ES patches folks put on the chest area.
I'm not a big fan either, and even though I have an ES patch, I refuse to wear it on the flightsuit.
I saw an individual wearing one over the nametag, and it doesn't look bad. Not legal, but it looks better than on the pocket.
Quote from: Flying Pig on July 13, 2008, 11:59:34 PM
Quote from: Smokey on July 13, 2008, 11:29:45 PM
I wouldn't say it was plagiarized. From what I know it is an actual patch belonging to a collector. I assume it comes from a rescue squadron. The motto "That others may live" is used by Rescue Squadrons not just PJs. In fact I have a challenge coin and shirt from the 66th Rescue Sq at Nellis AFB that has the motto. The 66th are the pilots/aircraft that support the PJs of the 58th RQS.
Many folks in the SAR business use variations of the different PJ symbols. I know of a female capt from AFRCC who was going to get a green footprint tatoo. She is not a PJ (there are no female PJs).
Id say that would be extremely poor taste. The only people who use the green feet are PJ's that I recall.
Yes, the motto "That others may live" is used widely in the SAR community, I would think that it would be a bad idea for CAP to adopt that given our Aux relationship with the AF, and our relationship with the ParaRescue community in the way of PJOC. I think its a little much. For the most part, the units who use that motto, our missions are nothing like what they perform ie. Coast Guard Rescue Swimmers, etc.
Also, I believe that the USCG uses "So Others May Live" and not the shortened "That Others May Live."
Civil Air Patrol patch with a green foot...
(http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/NJ/njwtrack.jpg)
It's from the NJWG Tracker portion of their GSAR program.
^^^WOW^^^ Now I know there is zero relevance to the Jolly Green feet in CAP and that was surely taken form AF Pararescue. I would definitely say that is uncool.