Ive been in CAP for about 15 years and I have seen very few minorities in CAP much less in a command position. Is this a national trend, and on membership applications theres a demographics section, is this available anywhere.
Just curious and interested at the same time.
Quote from: flyguync on May 30, 2008, 02:04:09 AM
Ive been in CAP for about 15 years and I have seen very few minorities in CAP much less in a command position. Is this a national trend, and on membership applications theres a demographics section, is this available anywhere.
Just curious and interested at the same time.
I'm supposedly a minority. I'm here?
There is nothing stopping anyone from joining CAP except a sort of systemwide issue with "getting the word our about CAP." However, we are working on that...and may I say, to a great degree under the Brig General's experienced guiding hand.
Minority, gender or race based? Cause we do have a female National Commander. If you want race, My SQD has minorities in it. My Wing has had minority Vice Commanders, Chief of Staff and other various Staff Officers. I have served with women as SQD Commanders, Women as Group Commanders as well. I worked for a race and gender minority at a CLS, ENC and various other Region and Wing activities.
I am the minority when I go to a Philadelphia Unit. There is no one being held back, and I can say from what I have seen, CAP actually follows its nondiscrimination policies unlike other Nonprofit Community Activities.
I would bet that you can get the breakdown from membership at NHQ if you really wanted it.
Good luck!
That's been my experience as well - local units basically reflect the demographics of the area they are located, but when you go to wing or regional exercises you start to see the whole rainbow.
In fact, I think that is one of CAP's strengths - forcing young people to interact meaningfully with people who are from different walks of life.
I've been in CAP for 21 years and have had a black Wing Commander (command pilot), female wing commander, hispanic DO, hispanic squadron commander, and of course, lots of senior citizens holding a lot of high level positions. And one of our sister squadrons was commanded by a black FBI special agent. And the middle school initiative in our wing was also commanded by a black female.
Well certainly if you're implying any kind of discrimination I'm going to have to take you out back & slap you around a bit, cause that's absolutely not remotely the case.
That said, we all know it's expensive to be a CAP member - really expensive if you get the whole family involved, which is one of the common success patterns. That can create some serious barriers to membership, and/or advancement thru positions - people that are going to move up are going to be highly active in probably ES & cadet programs, each of which cost lots more than just hanging around. It may be who you know, but you have to be there performing well to know them, and there's a significant cost to play that game. Even cadet membership can be a costly endeavor. For pilots... I mean the cost of a VFR license alone is very high. Then 10hrs a month is a grand right there on what would be just a hobby w/o CAP.
I don't want to give the impression I'm saying all minorities are poor & only rich white guys can afford to be in CAP. Obviously that's not the case. There's lots of minorities in CAP. Our freakin CAP/CC is a female right now for God's sake, and no one cared in the slightest about that. CAP has a very strong record of disregarding race even when the rest of the world didn't, even before the military, and they were ahead of their time with integration. There are demographics & financial barriers though, and that's unfortunate. I think we'd all like this to be cheaper & more accessible.
KSWG's had 2 black Wing King's in 10 years and getting our 3rd female Wing King this weekend (okay, one gal served twice, but it's a long, ugly story)
FWIW - I think the biggest problem is CAP simply isn't known at all in the minority communities and frankly we don't have a clue how to make ourselves known there.
Hell, we have trouble enough introducing ourselves to the majority community!
CAP's national marketing plan included survey data (presented in a very poor and confusing fashion, but thats another issue) indicating that 33% of whites had some familiarity with CAP while only 6% of blacks did.
14% of the Air Force flying inventory is currently either grounded or operating under severe flight restriction because it is OLD and BROKE and there is NO plan to address that little issue.
Why don't you wonder about that instead of dumas stuff?
Besides, Major Carrales has been designated the official token minority so we're good.
Get over it and on to something of national significance and value for your country.
^ Since we are not Air Force, none of us have any control over operating budgets, and 14% is not a bad number to be at to begin with. The Air Force is moving away from having "massive fleets" anyway.
Did anyone else read that DOD is thinking about letting the Army take full control of all UAV operations? I think it was in AF/Army times this past week.
SO....AF may not even be doing Air Forcey stuff much longer. Heck.....they are dumping lots of money into Cyber-Command.
This was a decent question posed above. I would be interested in seeing stats like this. Hell the Military services are required to produce this information each year, shouldn't CAP??
It would be interesting to read about it, but not read too much into it. I know of a few minorities in CAP that I've come to respect very much. These gentlemen have very keen senses, and a good sense of judgement. I guess it all depends on where you live, and what the minority population is around you.
Wow... I thought the biggest minority problem in CAP was a senior member who is not a pilot and did not have a kid enrolled in the cadet program.
If there aren't many minorities in CAP, I don't think it has anything to do with us as an organization.
Quote from: smj58501 on May 31, 2008, 02:25:26 AM
Wow... I thought the biggest minority problem in CAP was a senior member who is not a pilot and did not have a kid enrolled in the cadet program.
The above is actually the
majority of members in my circle of contact...
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 30, 2008, 11:06:23 PM
^ Since we are not Air Force, none of us have any control over operating budgets, and 14% is not a bad number to be at to begin with. The Air Force is moving away from having "massive fleets" anyway.
Did anyone else read that DOD is thinking about letting the Army take full control of all UAV operations? I think it was in AF/Army times this past week.
SO....AF may not even be doing Air Forcey stuff much longer. Heck.....they are dumping lots of money into Cyber-Command.
It is simply not possible that you are an officer in the armed forces of the United States.
Quote from: aveighter on May 31, 2008, 02:56:22 AM
It is simply not possible that you are an officer in the armed forces of the United States.
If you say so. I disagree with your position that wanting to know about minorities in CAP is not important. It was important to the original poster. It is also important to those who give CASH to CAP. You better believe it comes up. It comes up from the Black Representatives from Philadelphia every year. So, I am going to assume you don't have much interaction with people other than "those that are like you". I also take your Token comment about Major C as offensive. That strikes as racist.
If you want to continue this to PM feel free. I will put you in touch with just over 7 other posters here who have met me in person, and can vouch for my authenticity as an Officer of the Armed Forces of The United States. (See how you are supposed to capitalize the important words).
Finally, things may not be important in your view, but to some they are of importance. Your dismissal of that shows arrogance and bad form. If you are so concerned about the AF situation, I suggest you join the Service and find a job where you can work on the airplanes in question. Or.....have you discussed this situation with your local Representative or Senator? Maybe you can write some letters. Tell us what you have done! I would be happy to see someone take action on your concerns.
PEACE
Quote from: aveighter on May 30, 2008, 09:48:12 PM
Besides, Major Carrales has been designated the official token minority so we're good.
Be careful throwing around words like "token" - they are often more harmful than you realize.
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 31, 2008, 03:17:36 AM
Quote from: aveighter on May 31, 2008, 02:56:22 AM
It is simply not possible that you are an officer in the armed forces of the United States.
If you say so. I disagree with your position that wanting to know about minorities in CAP is not important. It was important to the original poster. It is also important to those who give CASH to CAP. You better believe it comes up. It comes up from the Black Representatives from Philadelphia every year. So, I am going to assume you don't have much interaction with people other than "those that are like you". I also take your Token comment about Major C as offensive. That strikes as racist.
If you want to continue this to PM feel free. I will put you in touch with just over 7 other posters here who have met me in person, and can vouch for my authenticity as an Officer of the Armed Forces of The United States. (See how you are supposed to capitalize the important words).
Finally, things may not be important in your view, but to some they are of importance. Your dismissal of that shows arrogance and bad form. If you are so concerned about the AF situation, I suggest you join the Service and find a job where you can work on the airplanes in question. Or.....have you discussed this situation with your local Representative or Senator? Maybe you can write some letters. Tell us what you have done! I would be happy to see someone take action on your concerns.
PEACE
Mike... this is the best post I've ever seen you make....
Because of you, I don't have to waste my time trying to further educate someone who has displayed his desire to remain ignorant.... Thank You.
It is my opinion that when involved in an organization such as CAP the color of skin doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the extent of the individual character of each member, their knowledge, skill set, and what they can contribute to the overall development of the organization.
I believe it to be pure ignorance for people to place more importance over one skin color and that of another. We are all people and we must decide what we're going to do for ourselves. The excuses that a certain demographic is being oppressed by another, or that one individual group should be demanding reparations from another for injustices committed by generations long removed from us is absurd.
I don't care if your black as mud or purple like an eggplant because if you're willing to VOLUNTEER with an organization such as CAP then you must be willing, whether in a small or large part, to change the condition of our humanity for the better.
The reality is that general aviation tends to be an older white guys club, and GA-friendly airports tend to be in suburban areas. With the decline in volunteerism as a whole, and specifically shrinkage of CAP, a >lot< have units have fallen-back from urban population centers to airports and rural areas (the lack of city and state support for facilities, based mostly on budget problems, doesn't help either).
My anecdotal understanding is that within my lifetime there used to be a CAP unit in every Chicago park, now we have two total in the whole city.
So as a whole, we should be making more efforts to get units started in non-traditional areas to afford the opportunities to
to serve and grow.
With that said, establishing a unit anywhere is not an easy task, and in a non-traditional urban area, considering the issues we have with mis-guided school officials and lack of meeting facilities is a daunting task - kudos to anyone who is doing it.
Once your check clears and your fingerprint cards clear, the only color I see is blue and camo...
Quote from: Eclipse on May 31, 2008, 03:18:26 PM
Once your check clears and your fingerprint cards clear, the only color I see is blue and camo...
and the GREEN that is associated with the large amounts of CASH we drop to perform our volunteer work ;D
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 31, 2008, 03:30:58 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 31, 2008, 03:18:26 PM
Once your check clears and your fingerprint cards clear, the only color I see is blue and camo...
and the GREEN that is associated with the large amounts of CASH we drop to perform our volunteer work ;D
Thats an understatement.
Shortly after the original question was posed several fellows pointed out that there were, indeed, many high ranking personnel of a so-called "minority" status.
Anyone who has attended many national level conferences or meetings can attest to this. If you've been around this organization for 15 years and need to ask this question, well, you just haven't been around. Inquiries such as this tend to create divisiveness rather than solidarity. And we need solidarity to be an effective organization.
To those who so blithely cast off my remarks I would remind you of one of CAPs core missions and responsibilities. Aerospace Education.
If you think that means shooting model rockets with the kids and reading books with neat pictures and getting a cool award and ribbon I have a surprise for you.
As a CAP Officer (certainly as an AEO) you have a fundamental responsibility (really, look it up, part of the original, and current, congressional and Air Force mandate for our very existence) to educate and advocate for Aerospace Power. Both internal (that's all us) and external (that's the rest of them). If you don't understand the implications of that charge, drop me a line and I'll help you with the relevant facts. Given that the Air Force is looking at several potentially dire situations with profound national security implications (that's all of us too, by the way) your obligations in this core duty are, indeed, very serious. Therefore, if this is news to you then get informed and start doing your duty and don't stop with the rockets. It is a critical part of your Auxiliary function.
So, comments about not having budgetary authority or join up and fix the plane or the Air Force isn't so (air forcey?) anymore are either made out of ignorance (I can help you with that) or stupidity (sorry, that's ingrained, no help there).
And for the hypersensitive among us, my Major C comment (we happen to know each other personally) was a play on his response to the original question starting this thread. As he is quite an insightful man, I thought his riposte rather humorous.
Quote from: aveighter on June 01, 2008, 01:37:03 AM
And for the hypersensitive among us, my Major C comment (we happen to know each other personally) was a play on his response to the original question starting this thread. As he is quite an insightful man, I thought his riposte rather humorous.
You are [darn] correct I am hypersensitive to comments like you made. It does not matter if you and Major C are best friends, you don't post something like that in an open (to the public) forum. You shouldn't even say things like that in life. You have no idea how degrading that is to those with a minority background. It really only shows your real feelings toward the subject. I suggest you look up the word bigot and racist. You may find yourself falling into a certain category. I hope you don't work with Cadets because I fear you may be setting the wrong examples. Shame on you, you owe everyone that read that an apology.
I would suggest you watch what you say here in regard to minorities.
Quote from: flyguync on May 30, 2008, 02:04:09 AM
Ive been in CAP for about 15 years and I have seen very few minorities in CAP much less in a command position. Is this a national trend, and on membership applications theres a demographics section, is this available anywhere.
Just curious and interested at the same time.
Good question. And, I don't have the slightest idea. CAP is open to all who are interested in making a contribution to our team and welcomes all who are able. We do care, though, if someone is being discriminated against for reasons other than being a total schizoid lunatic, pervert, or some other like individual who has no business in CAP or any other organization dealing with our youth, educating the public on the nature of aerospace and SAR/DR/CN/HLS/VSAF/MOUSE.(sic.)
My own experience tells me we pretty much represent the areas we serve. I've known minority sq/cc's, gp/cc's, wing/cc's, region/cc's, national NEC officers and, of course, CAP/CC's. Our NB does not seem to represent the general population however, it may represent the demographics of our membership or, it may not.
I do know however, we are targeting our School Programs in areas having large minority populations, at least for now. In PAWG, a significant part of their grant from the state is for School Program development in Philadelphia, Harrisburg, and Pittsburgh. And, Mikey, before you beg to differ with me, I know the program is working only in Philly.
IMHO, we just need to bring
more of everyone into CAP and give them a rewarding, positive, useful and fun way to spend their time with us.
Quote from: FW on June 01, 2008, 03:07:19 AM
I do know however, we are targeting our School Programs in areas having large minority populations, at least for now. In PAWG, a significant part of their grant from the state is for school Program development in Philadelphia, Harrisburg, and Pittsburgh. And, Mikey, before you beg to differ with me, I know the program is working only in Philly.
Ah Sir.....you take all the fun out of things!
I actually support the Philly School Initiative. WE need to prove it can work before we invest in other parts of the State. I predicted a few years back that the Philly School Squadrons would have larger numbers of Cadets than the rest of the "regular" Philly SQDS. The program is awesome, the leadership in the schools are even better. It seems that the minority areas of the city grab at programs like this. That is a very good thing. I worked at the Philadelphia Naval Base with those Cadets one summer. It is a good program. We also have the support of Composite and Cadet SQD Commanders that allow School Cadets to attend their weekly meetings. Most had no idea that CAP was in their local neighborhoods. It was amazing.
I had hoped to see the Charter school open and running for at least a year by now. That was the only disappointment. Perhaps next year.