I'm sorry this has nothing to do with CAP, but it does affect every single CAP member.
A few kids from my school have organized this Oil Free Holiday. The idea is that on Monday, June 2nd, everyone who wants to participate does not drive their car for a day.
Acceptable forms of transportation are biking, walking, public transportation, or at the bare minimum, car pooling.
The whole purpose of this is not to lower oil prices (that would be nice though), but to raise awareness and just break our bond with oil.
I for one will be walking to and from school (which is a good 5 miles one way) along with about 50-75 other students from my high school.
Anyone can participate just by walking or biking to work this Monday.
that's cool, but what does it change? ie, what is the goal for the event? Everybody will forget about it in two weeks, if it's just to "raise awareness".
Quote from: whatevah on May 30, 2008, 12:17:54 AM
that's cool, but what does it change? ie, what is the goal for the event? Everybody will forget about it in two weeks, if it's just to "raise awareness".
How many people here don't use their car to get work? My guess is not many. If for one day you walk or ride your bike to work and you realize that it not hard at all, you will end up doing it more often, and thus saving money and being less dependent on gasoline.
So, I hope you put the IPOD down, not cook your TV dinner, turn the television off, shut the cell phone off, not use any ink pens, unplug the computer, don't listen to any Cd's, don't wear tennis shoes, take off the plastic wrist watch, don't use any deodorant, and basically not eat anything this day as well.
Does anyone want to make a guess where I am coming from??
Simple answere........Plastics. Each day Americans use more money in plastic products than they do to fill up their cars for an entire week. Anyone know where plastic comes from?? Natural gas and Oil. Natural gas and oil are linked commodities. You need both to make plastic. So the more plastic we use= more gasoline will cost the next day.
I wish people would research before they jump on the "oh gas is so expensive" band wagon. Gasoline is only a small percentage of the actual oil in a barrel of OIL. Anyone ever see how the refinement process works?
So, if you think your little "don't drive" campaign will work, it wont. More things are made from the majority of oil than gasoline.
Mikey is just upset, because every Friday when leaving campus there is a group of bicycle riders that take up all five lanes of traffic heading out of the university section of town. They go slow, and do it on purpose because they think everyone should be like them. Freaking hippies!!!
Quote from: penguinmaster113 on May 30, 2008, 12:22:16 AM
How many people here don't use their car to get work?
This guy doesn't.
I use the public bus system. Sometimes I ride my bike part of the way during good weather for exercise.
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 30, 2008, 12:38:09 AM
So, I hope you put the IPOD down, not cook your TV dinner, turn the television off, shut the cell phone off, not use any ink pens, unplug the computer, don't listen to any Cd's, don't wear tennis shoes, take off the plastic wrist watch, don't use any deodorant, and basically not eat anything this day as well.
Does anyone want to make a guess where I am coming from??
Simple answere........Plastics. Each day Americans use more money in plastic products than they do to fill up their cars for an entire week. Anyone know where plastic comes from?? Natural gas and Oil. Natural gas and oil are linked commodities. You need both to make plastic. So the more plastic we use= more gasoline will cost the next day.
I wish people would research before they jump on the "oh gas is so expensive" band wagon. Gasoline is only a small percentage of the actual oil in a barrel of OIL. Anyone ever see how the refinement process works?
So, if you think your little "don't drive" campaign will work, it wont. More things are made from the majority of oil than gasoline.
Mikey is just upset, because every Friday when leaving campus there is a group of bicycle riders that take up all five lanes of traffic heading out of the university section of town. They go slow, and do it on purpose because they think everyone should be like them. Freaking hippies!!!
I realize that it will have no effect on the price of oil, but it will have an effect on your wallet. Simple math here, if you drive less, you use less gas, and less gas means more money in your wallet.
The whole idea is to make people realize that if they live within a reasonable distance from their work, you do not need to drive there. Not driving as often to work will add up and rather quickly considering gasoline prices.
^ OK. Walk to school. Your School bus is burning more of my tax dollars than my tank of gas is.
And we are only talking about pennies here.
I understand your agenda and cause, but it is not an educated response to our "fuel crisis" (phrase coined on CNN in 2006, to protest the President).
I would love to take the bus to work, but it would end up costing me more in fare and time than driving does. I can get a bus pass for $200.00 per month. That is through the school and county. OR I could spend $175.00 on GAS. Tough choice......my extra $25.00 goes toward Wendy's and Taco Bell each week.
^^Define "reasonable" in terms of distance to work.
Most major population centers, your state included, have large residential communities and people commute 30 minutes to 1 hour or more to get there - substantially longer if you're riding a bike.
Most people cannot arrive to work in biking shorts soaked in sweat, nor can they afford to double their commute time because of other life realities.
This is a commuter society, built and designed on the (admittedly bad) idea that you can live wherever you want and work wherever you want. And you can't just "move closer to work" because in a lot of cases we've created "work zones" and "living zones" - anyone who has ever seen downtown Manhattan, LA, or Chicago at noon on Saturday understands what this means.
Most people want grass where they live (i.e. the suburbs), and most companies want economies of scale for their business (i.e. office buildings). These two desires are not generally compatible.
As someone who commutes primarily by commuter train and rides a motorcycle whenever I can, my sensitivity to fuel prices is pretty low (i.e. I don't care enough to think about it), however that doesn't change the fact that were it not for happenstance of where I live, I'd be driving like all the other goobers on the road each morning.
There will need to be a significant cultural shift, and gas prices in the $8-10 range before most Americans will think about it past the 2 minute news story.
Gas prices right now are being driven by emerging countries, not US driving habits. Couple that with oil companies that are riding the bandwagon into record profits.
My guess is the government steps in and starts overtly discussing the "R-word" (regulation) at around $6.50-7.00, especially if Obama is elected. Once that happens prices will rapidly drop for consumer fuel almost immediately to under $3.00, where they will stay until Americans get complacent again and they start to rise.
For the heck of it, I went down to the garage to see if I could find my bike. Well I did! If anyone has a seat and fly gear for a Schwinn cr455 from 1989, I would greatly appreciate it.
If not, I guess at 9:30 PM tonight I will start the walk to work! Wish me luck.
My sweetie works 21 miles from the house. There is public transportation available for a portion of that trip, but at a time and money premium. The public transportation (SD Trolley) costs more, and she still has to drive to the station (farther away from work than the house), and then walk 1.2 miles from the destination station to her workplace. That is not practical at all.
Got another, more practical, idea?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/nogas.asp
Reasonable Distance- In my opinion is about a mile. Which is a 20 minute walk at a comfortable pace.
Mikey- From what I sense in your sarcasm, you live quite a ways from your work and this day wouldn't apply to you. And those pennies will add up especially when gas hits $5 a gallon.
These negative feedbacks are what is stopping people from trying new ideas.
In my school, two teachers who live about a mile from the school bike at least once or twice a week. They do it in shirt and ties and they are not covered in sweat when they arrive.
JThemann- I already stated that this Oil Free Holiday will not affect gasoline prices (I'm not that naive), but it will mean you spend less money on gas if you make it a habit.
I'm sorry if you live 20 miles away from your work, my entire point is if you think you can walk to work, go for it and you might find out that it is cheaper and healthier too.
A June 2007 ABC news survey indicated the average commute distance for drivers is: 16 Miles
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Traffic/story?id=485098&page=1
A 1997 survey of bicyclists (most recent I could find, sorry), indicated that the average bicycle commute is 7.2 miles
http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/Moritz1.htm
Also, what do you do when it rains, snows, or is incredibly hot / cold?
Quote from: SarDragon on May 30, 2008, 01:26:25 AM
My sweetie works 21 miles from the house. There is public transportation available for a portion of that trip, but at a time and money premium. The public transportation (SD Trolley) costs more, and she still has to drive to the station (farther away from work than the house), and then walk 1.2 miles from the destination station to her workplace. That is not practical at all.
Got another, more practical, idea?
It's always hit or miss. Depends on the city you're in, your location within the city in relation to the bus/subway/trolly lines, times the bus runs versus times you need it to run, etc.
I'm fortunate that a bus line runs a 3-minute stroll from my house. With one easy transfer (with a Starbucks right nearby while I wait for my transfer), I get literally brought to my employer's entrance. The bus gets me to my office 5 minutes before I need to be there, only costs $1.25, and only takes about 90 minutes (30 minutes is the commute time by car).
Works out great. They even have bike racks on the bus for when I want to ride the second half of the way and get my exercise on. ;D
However, for many people, it is not that simple or simply not even possible to use public transport to get to work (or to get there on time).
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 30, 2008, 01:15:06 AM
I can get a bus pass for $200.00 per month.
That is outrageous!
Here in Syracuse, a monthly, unlimited bus (http://centro.org/) pass only costs about $40. Heck, when I lived in Paris in 2004, a monthly, unlimited bus & metro (subway) pass within the city limits was only like 45€! Your public transport people are a little messed up if they're charging $200/mo for a pass.
Quote from: JThemann on May 30, 2008, 01:28:52 AM
http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/nogas.asp
Wow...where do they get their facts and figures from. Plus the math is off. What a freaking joke!
Quote from: Pylon on May 30, 2008, 01:51:26 AM
With one easy transfer (with a Starbucks right nearby while I wait for my transfer), I get literally brought to my employer's entrance.
Man......I would spend all my transfer money on a Venti Mocha Frap or a Iced Chai. Starbucks is my one and only evil vice. I will knock people over that take too long in line ordering their coffee. But I digress......back to walking to work and stuff ;D
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 30, 2008, 02:42:15 AM
Quote from: JThemann on May 30, 2008, 01:28:52 AM
http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/nogas.asp
Wow...where do they get their facts and figures from. Plus the math is off. What a freaking joke!
Its "big lie" theory in action, and typical of American attitudes where a quick, easy fix is the only thing people want to hear.
To the thread's point, if you live a mile from work, then you're an idiot if you drive, I'll accept that.
Another amusing side to this is that a lot of these "easy answers" come from the collegiate world, where a large number of
professors and students have never had a "real" job, live on campus, and rely on mom and dad's huge carbon footprint to be able to afford attendance at the next Greenpeace rally.
Oil is expensive because its in huge demand, and the producers are not benevolent to keeping prices reasonable. Its also tied into local tax structures, and environmental demands in regards to the expensive blending requirements (i.e. IL). Let's also not forget all those dirty US refineries we shut down in the 70's and 80's because of pollution - well, now we have to pay someone else to make your fuel clear.
Fuel is easy to latch on to because its the only "oil" most Americans buy (semi-)directly. While "transportation" accounts for nearly 50% of consumption in the US, and gasoline is 2/3 of that, nearly everything manufactured in a modern society contains petroleum products or by-products. Look around you. If its not leather, wood, glass, or rock, or metal, its probably plastic, and the leather, wood, glass, & rocks likely have petroleum products used in their manufacture or finishing.
Oh, and the next time you see a protester who insists we invaded Iraq just for the oil, show them your last gas receipt.
Say what you want about the Roman Legions, but if they were occupying the largest oil deposit in the world, they'd be paying .023 denarius a gallon for gas.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 30, 2008, 03:02:19 AM
Another amusing side to this is that a lot of these "easy answers" come from the collegiate world, where a large number of professors and students have never had a "real" job, live on campus, and rely on mom and dad's huge carbon footprint to be able to afford attendance at the next Greenpeace rally.
It's the whole "
Dude I went to College for one Semester and my Proffessors opened my eyes, I can now see how evil the United States really is" theory. Also thrown in there is the "
make illegal drugs legal" rant, the "
I deserve a college degree because my Mom and Dad are paying for it, even if I get failing grades" approach, and the "
We can get drafted at 18, so us college students should be allowed to drink at 18" belief.
I lump the above into tyrannical Hippie BS. Man do I hate Hippies.
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 30, 2008, 03:09:37 AM
I lump the above into tyrannical Hippie BS. Man do I hate Hippies.
Heh...
(http://www.southparkstudios.com/includes/utils/proxy_resizer.php?image=/images/shows/southpark/vertical_video/import/season_09/sp_0902_01_v6.jpg&width=480&quality=85)
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103809
And let's not forget those smug alerts! :D
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155193
(http://www.southparkstudios.com/includes/utils/proxy_resizer.php?image=/images/shows/southpark/vertical_video/import/season_10/sp_1002_01_v6.jpg&width=480&quality=85)
You Sir are awesome! And you caught me.......
I take all my life lessons from Eric Cartman.
How do you follow such genius? HOW!?!?!
Well, if any of you pinko commie hippies want to work on the capitalist voucher system. I'll be stuck at freakin crappy training for two months w/o driving. I'm charging $6.50 per day (that's 1/31st [about] of that $200 monthly bus pass). I don't drive, you do, but you can feel better about yourself cause you're paying for one person's worth of no gas (depending on what they serve in the chow hall). :P
You can't! There is no greater truth than South Park.
(now I have to go watch both of these episodes all the way through!)
I actully had this conversation in my technical writing class today.
The Campus I go to is about 30 miles from my house, 26 of those miles is highway so it is about a 20 minute drive. If I don't take the highway it is over an hour drive. I researched what it would take for me to take the bus to school. My first class is at noon.
To take the bus
Leave house NLT ................... 8:45am
3 mile walk to bus stop .......... 1 hourish
Bus leaves stop.......................9:47
Arrive at transfer terminal........10:15
Leave transfer terminal............11:15
Arrive at school.........................11:35
I could take a bus 1 hour later but it would get to the terminal at the same time my next bus is supposed to leave
Last class gets out at 4pm
first bus leaving school ............ 4:46
arrive at transfer terminal ....... 5:09
leave transfer terminal............. 5:30
arrive at bus stop .................... 6:01
3 mile walk home ..................... 1 hour
Arrive home ............................. 7:01
I could only do this two days a week since the other two I have CAP which starts at 6:30 and I usually get there close to 6 to open the building.
All of this is great, but I know people who take the bus and they say you can expect the bus to always be late, sometimes up to 10 minutes. And if you have to transfer buses you need to leave on the next earlier bus otherwise you will miss your transfer 8 times out of 10.
If the county can improve the transit system, I'll start using it, but right now it is unreliable and takes too long. Also there are no "park and ride" bus stops, if they had that I would defiantly be considering it more.
EDIT: I forgot to put in that a 31 day student bus pass is $20, but they just came out with that on the 1st of may, prior to that is was $40 for a 31 day adult pass.
This has hit one of my triggers so I had to write this. I apologize for the length
We've been spoiled for quite a while with the prices we got. Most of Europe has been paying high prices forever, hence the matchbox cars they drive and the well developed public transportation. We have built our complete infrastructure on the assumption of an abundance of easily affordable oil. If you do the math it does not seem to be as big of a deal that prices have gone up as many make it out to be, however the wider spread affect of gas prices is much greater. As prices go up the economy will take time to figure out who has to pay the added expense. For the time being it will be people who don't have a lot of control on those factors like the independent truck drivers that will feel more pressure. The economy will also continue to be negatively affected because the economy is based on how people feel about the economy. If people panic, prices go up. If people are calm, prices level off or get lower. Protesting by not buying gas one day has absolutely no effect. You'll have to get gas eventually. Buying a high mileage car is great, finding alternate means of transportation is great, not traveling as much sucks but helps. Practicality will always dictate how we do things. We're not at the point where everyone can be expected to be absolutely carbon neutral, "green", etc. Give it a couple years and we'll see how far we get with developing technology.
My main beef with gas prices is when it comes to driving a CAP van. It's hard to go out and drive around a CAP van all day on a SAREX and then put $100-$150 to fill up the tank and wait months up to a year to get reimbursed. Do a couple SAREXs and the money adds up.
Hey Mikey how about "I deserve a college degree because the classes I'm taking are hard, even if I get failing grades"? Please can I at least have that? ;)
when I was in DC this past wknd they were doing a thing on the radio... Bike, car & bus from one suburb into the same downtown location (the station). Bike of course was free, but got there way late & needing a shower. Car was about 5 bucks, got the fastest. Bus got there on time, cost about 2bucks, BUT it cost $11 to park at the park-n-ride lot.
Quote from: DNall on May 30, 2008, 03:52:12 AM
when I was in DC this past wknd they were doing a thing on the radio... Bike, car & bus from one suburb into the same downtown location (the station). Bike of course was free, but got there way late & needing a shower. Car was about 5 bucks, got the fastest. Bus got there on time, cost about 2bucks, BUT it cost $11 to park at the park-n-ride lot.
lol, $11 to park you car in a park-n-ride lot... thats ridiculous, I only pay $6 to park when I go to the beach, and I get to go to the beach, not ride a bus with smelly people. Even parking at South Beach is only $10. Now when I go to the clubs downtown those bastards charge $15-$20, but luckily there is a parking garage for the downtown campus of my school about 3 blocks from the clubs so I park for free (well it's part of my tuition).
I have a 42 mile commute to work. It costs me ~$100.00 each month to get there and back. Why so cheap? Well, it's not because of the 1987 pickup truck that I drive but because I carpool.
We have a 15 passenger van with 14 riders, that we lease from a leasing company (they take care of maintenance, inspections, roadside assistance, insurance, etc). I drive my old beat up pick-up truck 2.5 miles each direction to the local park&ride (which by the way is free to use - imagine that!). I get picked up and driven the 42 miles to work. Since we all work at the same place, we leave the van in the parking lot of work, so there isn't any transfers, etc.
Every afternoon we all leave at 1630 on our van. Travel 42 miles and get dropped off at my P&R. 2.5 mile commute back home.
I haven't had to put gas in my truck in three months and I still have about a quarter tank.
Now, we don't always have 14 people on the van, usually it's about 8 since I work from home 2 days a week, other people do too, vacation, etc. It really works out great.
$100.00 / mo. taken directly out of my paycheck - pre-tax. Fantastic! Better than the $500.00 it would cost me otherwise.
^ There are always alternatives. Carpooling is a great example.
I just wish the media would stop feeding the insane "gas is so expensive" mentality. If you think it is expensive now, when it has only gone up to prices it should have been at in 1986 with inflation, wait till the Presidential election. It does not matter who gets elected, but speculators and big business will drive the prices of oil up real big. I would imagine that by the end of summer we will see around $4.30 as a national average. By the end of next November I could easily see it going well beyond the $4.90-$4.95 price range.
Like I posted earlier, gasoline is only one product made from oil. Many of our consumer goods and toys come from oil based products. My family has been in the plastics business for a few decades now. We currently make aerospace and defense parts for the major US defense contractors. We have fourteen parts in the new F-22. Almost 3 years ago one of the cheapest parts to produce was quoted at $45.90. Today because of the oil "situation" that part now costs the US Government $89.00. That is almost DOUBLE the original cost. You see, plastic is made by combining oil (at the bottom of the refinery tank) with Natural gas. When oil prices rise, costs go up. However, because of our economic system, Oil and natural gas is directly linked to each other. So oil goes up, Natural gas goes up. It is a two-lose process.
Because only 1/5 of the oil refined in a barrel goes toward plastic, the costs actually are greater for that oil than for the oil that is made into gasoline (which is 2/5). So everything from milk containers to your Ipod will cost more this year not because of transportation but because of the rising cost of plastics.
Instead of taking a day not to buy gasoline, how about taking ten minutes and finding out where you can start taking your plastic soda bottles to be recycled. That is a far better move to keep the cost of consumer goods down.
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 30, 2008, 02:31:54 PM
Instead of taking a day not to buy gasoline, how about taking ten minutes and finding out where you can start taking your plastic soda bottles to be recycled. That is a far better move to keep the cost of consumer goods down.
I take mine to the recycle bin in my garage, where they go after that I couldn't tell you. My county has had recycling since, um well, since I have lived here. When we moved in to our house in 1992 the county came and dropped off a recycling trashcan, metal and plastic go in it, paper has to be bundled and on top of the can, once a month we get "paper" instead of using our totes at the supermarket. We save the bags and put all our newspaper in it, when the bag gets full we twine it and throw it on top of the recycle can. All the other paper we shred and bring to a mom & pop pack-n-ship who uses it as packing.
Quote from: DNall on May 30, 2008, 03:52:12 AM
when I was in DC this past wknd they were doing a thing on the radio... Bike, car & bus from one suburb into the same downtown location (the station). Bike of course was free, but got there way late & needing a shower. Car was about 5 bucks, got the fastest. Bus got there on time, cost about 2bucks, BUT it cost $11 to park at the park-n-ride lot.
I think this may be what you were talking about: The Great Commuter Race (vid) (http://money.cnn.com/video/#/video/news/2008/05/22/news.greatrace.052208.cnnmoney)
Your school should do this. Not becasue it will make a big dent in petroleum dependency but because it will teach your school (and maybe some head in the sand parents) that we all have a stake in how our government and economy work.
Maybe a small grassroots protest there won't make great waves. But lone people making a small ripple often turn into great waves. Sam Adams (the patriot) comes to mind.
Quote from: flyerthom on May 30, 2008, 06:23:55 PM
Maybe a small grassroots protest there won't make great waves. But lone people making a small ripple often turn into great waves. Sam Adams (the patriot) comes to mind.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -Margaret Mead
Quote from: mikeylikey on May 30, 2008, 12:38:09 AM
So, I hope you put the IPOD down, not cook your TV dinner, turn the television off, shut the cell phone off, not use any ink pens, unplug the computer, don't listen to any Cd's, don't wear tennis shoes, take off the plastic wrist watch, don't use any deodorant, and basically not eat anything this day as well.
Does anyone want to make a guess where I am coming from??
Simple answere........Plastics. Each day Americans use more money in plastic products than they do to fill up their cars for an entire week. Anyone know where plastic comes from?? Natural gas and Oil. Natural gas and oil are linked commodities. You need both to make plastic. So the more plastic we use= more gasoline will cost the next day.
Plastics are a byproduct of the oil industry. As such the reverse is true. The more money that's made on refining's byproducts, the cheaper things like gas, diesel, jet fuel, home heating oil, etc. become.