It is pretty apparent that in the past the primary focus of CAP senior training was on technical skills related to performing a particular staff job or performing a specific ES job and that we had little leadership training other than that which is found in the ancient photocopies that make up the CAP Senior Officer Correspondence Course (ECI-13).
However, that does seem to have changed quite a bit. Both SLS and CLC are now more focused on developing leaders and team players rather than telling people about the different staff jobs. The Unit Commanders Course and both the Region and National Staff colleges are also more leadership-focused.
While all of these courses do cover all the topics, anyone that has gone through all of them, including ECI 13, will have spent quite a bit of time on leadership training (about 16 days total training time).
Now, we all recognize that this isn't comparable to any hard core leadership training that the military might do, but the question is -- is it enough for our purposes?
After all, when it comes right down to it most national volunteer organizations get along pretty well without spending tons of time on leadership training for their members.
I think part of the problem is that too few of our members take advantage of what we do have available and as discussed in other threads, we don't have a lot of tools in the box to get them to do it.
Quote from: RiverAux on April 28, 2008, 08:01:43 PM
I think part of the problem is that too few of our members take advantage of what we do have available and as discussed in other threads, we don't have a lot of tools in the box to get them to do it.
There's some truth to that. The best leadership training in the world won't do any good if no one takes it.
I don't know what "hard core leadership" training in the military you are talking about.
From an AD USAF point of view....the only thing I learned from my PME is to put lables on concepts and techniques I was taught by being a leader and my mentors.
Even if we sent everyone to real PME courses (officer or enlisted) they will not really learn much of anything if they don't use that information.
Bottom line is that most CAP officers don't "need" leadership training as they do very little leading. Most are in one deep positions or they may be luck and have one subordinate.
Of course unit commander and DCC and DCS are an automatic exception to this.
Perhaps our leadership training needs to be broken down into smaller chunks that would be appropriate for use in senior meetings? After all, our cadet program is pretty focused on leadership and almost all of it is done at the squadron level.
This would get the material out to those folks (for whatever reason) don't attend other CAP training classes.
Quote from: RiverAux on April 28, 2008, 08:01:43 PM
It is pretty apparent that in the past the primary focus of CAP senior training was on technical skills related to performing a particular staff job or performing a specific ES job and that we had little leadership training other than that which is found in the ancient photocopies that make up the CAP Senior Officer Correspondence Course (ECI-13).
However, that does seem to have changed quite a bit. Both SLS and CLC are now more focused on developing leaders and team players rather than telling people about the different staff jobs. The Unit Commanders Course and both the Region and National Staff colleges are also more leadership-focused.
While all of these courses do cover all the topics, anyone that has gone through all of them, including ECI 13, will have spent quite a bit of time on leadership training (about 16 days total training time).
Now, we all recognize that this isn't comparable to any hard core leadership training that the military might do, but the question is -- is it enough for our purposes?
After all, when it comes right down to it most national volunteer organizations get along pretty well without spending tons of time on leadership training for their members.
I think part of the problem is that too few of our members take advantage of what we do have available and as discussed in other threads, we don't have a lot of tools in the box to get them to do it.
The problem is teaching old dogs new tricks, as well as motivating folks to step up to military PME's.
Your average forty-to-fifty-something CAP Senior is not going to be as impressionable, malleable and dogmatic as your cadet or 21 year old SM.
Personally, I'd rather take SOS and ACSC than take a week off and spend a few hundred dollars in airfare, lodging, etc. and I have fellow members whod rather do just that than have to actually study for exams, and did just that (remember that RSC/NSC's don't really have exams.)
I know someone who took the mil PME's and went to RSC just for something to do, and they said that the only thing they got out of it was networking with other members....
As for "hardcore" leadership training, and I assume that means something like NCO Academy, OCS, PLC, WOC, or other charm schools, there just isn't a place for that in a volunteer organization (I'm assuming that hardcore means in-your-face type stuff.) I didn't like it as a 21 year old, when they were paying me, and I certainly ain't gonna put up with that at age 43, for free. And even so, back then when I wasn't brasso-ing shower drains or folding my undies a perfect 4X4, I was learning the same management concepts, i.e., Maslow and Johari, that I took in college.
So how much leadership training (
within the context of our organization) do Seniors really need?
As much as they can get, which is unfortunately much more than your average senior actually seeks.
Quote from: O-Rex on April 28, 2008, 09:17:13 PMThe problem is teaching old dogs new tricks, as well as motivating folks to step up to military PME's.
Or changing CAP professional development to be more like military PME, so members can differentiate between "corporate civilian" and "regulated military" and act accordingly.
How's
that for a concept, National Headquarters?
By hardcore I meant the traditional military training schools such as O-Rex mentioned and other similar courses, not necessarily hard core in terms of shouting, push-ups, etc.
Quote from: CCSE on April 28, 2008, 09:20:28 PM
Quote from: O-Rex on April 28, 2008, 09:17:13 PMThe problem is teaching old dogs new tricks, as well as motivating folks to step up to military PME's.
Or changing CAP professional development to be more like military PME, so members can differentiate between "corporate civilian" and "regulated military" and act accordingly.
How's that for a concept, National Headquarters?
Making CAP PD course more like military PME is not the answer. First off it is a different leadership dynamic. Second, military PME is backed with the assumption that the students will be getting immediat practical application of the academic knowledge. Capt Joe Blow, Homer J. Simpson Squadron Admin officer is not going to get any application because he has nothing and no one to lead but himself and maybe one assistant.
Unless someone steps up and take on greater leadership responsibilites where they exercise their leadership muscles....all the exercise vidoes ever made will not help a bit.
Quote from: RiverAux on April 28, 2008, 09:25:38 PM
By hardcore I meant the traditional military training schools such as O-Rex mentioned and other similar courses, not necessarily hard core in terms of shouting, push-ups, etc.
It involves blocks of free time that alot of Seniors don't have.
Kind of like what they were doing in Iowa, we kicked around the idea of a CAP OTS/Officer Basic Course over something like three weekends. We "wargamed" the concept (i.e., played devil's advocate and threw monkey wrenches into the scenarios, just to see what would happen) and found that getting seniors to get three consecutive weekends off would be tough, so you'd have to stagger, schedule, do make-ups, etc. that it was just hard to keep up with administratively.
The vast majority of seniors need little to no leadership training, because they do little to no leading.
I think part of the problem of the "everyone's an officer" mentality of CAP is that we aren't focusing on the folks actually filling leadership jobs. I could care less if a squadron AE officer gets his Level V. I care a LOT if a Group Commander or Wing Director of Cadet Programs gets his.
CAP might be very different if we focused our resources on training the folks who do the jobs that need it, rather than training everyone who just wants to wear oak leaves.
Quote from: Dragoon on April 28, 2008, 09:43:44 PM
The vast majority of seniors need little to no leadership training, because they do little to no leading.
Leadership isn't just about command: it's about having the maturity and wherewithall to be an influential go-to person who can maintain a clear head, solve problems and handle personalities before things get out of hand.
We are
WAY SHORT in that department....
QuoteThe vast majority of seniors need little to no leadership training, because they do little to no leading.
Oh, I don't think I would agree with that. Its just that for most CAP members, we're talking about leading a small group of people. A Mission Pilot is a leader. A Ground Team Leader is obviously a leader (insert other ES leadership positions here). Most of the seniors involved in cadet programs are basically leaders even if only indirectly.
In the Air Guard and I think the Reserves, you can get away with doing things like Airman Leadership School, a 6 week course (or is it 4) by correspondence. My wife did it recently and spent all of about 5 hours studying the week before she took the test and passed. She got promoted to SSgt.
Like lordmonar said, the Air Force doesn't do a whole bunch of hardcore leadership training. As I've learned from having served both in the Army and Air Force; the Army leads, the Air Force manages. Still trying to figure out what the Navy does (even after watching Carrier (http://www.pbs.org/weta/carrier/) last night.
Quote from: O-Rex on April 28, 2008, 09:49:50 PM
Quote from: Dragoon on April 28, 2008, 09:43:44 PM
The vast majority of seniors need little to no leadership training, because they do little to no leading.
Leadership isn't just about command: it's about having the maturity and wherewithall to be an influential go-to person who can maintain a clear head, solve problems and handle personalities before things get out of hand.
We are WAY SHORT in that department....
An no amount of PD classes or military PME will be able to tech that. It is about DOING leadership...not book learning.
Quote from: lordmonar on April 28, 2008, 10:48:46 PM
Quote from: O-Rex on April 28, 2008, 09:49:50 PM
Quote from: Dragoon on April 28, 2008, 09:43:44 PM
The vast majority of seniors need little to no leadership training, because they do little to no leading.
Leadership isn't just about command: it's about having the maturity and wherewithall to be an influential go-to person who can maintain a clear head, solve problems and handle personalities before things get out of hand.
We are WAY SHORT in that department....
An no amount of PD classes or military PME will be able to tech that. It is about DOING leadership...not book learning.
Agreed. That's why certain military PME courses (and in theory, CAP courses) are only available at certain points of an Officer/NCO's career: there needs to be an experiential base to build upon.
Book-learning is not meant to be an end unto itself: it needs practical exercise, to be understood and internalized and later applied appropriately to a situation.
Quote from: Dragoon on April 28, 2008, 09:43:44 PM
The vast majority of seniors need little to no leadership training, because they do little to no leading.
I think part of the problem of the "everyone's an officer" mentality of CAP is that we aren't focusing on the folks actually filling leadership jobs. I could care less if a squadron AE officer gets his Level V. I care a LOT if a Group Commander or Wing Director of Cadet Programs gets his.
CAP might be very different if we focused our resources on training the folks who do the jobs that need it, rather than training everyone who just wants to wear oak leaves.
I respectfully disagree. Leadership is basically influencing people and working together toward a common objective. There's a huge need for people with those skills at every level of our organization. I think you're equating leadership with "command" or positional authority, as well as using "training" and "education" interchangeably. Precisely because we are a volunteer organization, the job of leading is more challenging because the leader has fewer donuts in his or her bag.
Here's what the AF doctrine teaches:
===========================================
"Leadership does not equal command, but all commanders should be leaders. Any Air Force member can be a leader and can positively influence those around him or her to accomplish the mission. This is the Air Force concept of leadership, and all aspects of Air Force leadership should support it." AFDD 1-1, p8
============================================
I say let's encourage more people to participate in the professional development program.
CAP leadership training is conducted every meeting and every event by the leadership (formal and informal) in the squadron. That is how civilian organziations train and that is how the military trains.
Scary isn't it. If anyone in the organziation is looking to move up and take more responsibility, they look at how the people with the responsibility now are conducting themselves and emulate them. Because it is obvious that the way the "leaders" conduct themselves is what it takes to get ahead in the organization. This is something every leader needs to be aware of. Because organizations with good leaders generate more good leaders and organziations with toxic leaders generate more toxic leaders.
Bottom line: Leadership classes help define and put labels on the different ways we see people lead. The actual process of learning to be a leader requires a mentor or guide who helps a person develop their leadership toolkit as they conduct their day to day job. A good leader constantly pushes his people just beyond their capabilites and helps them improve their capabilities while keeping them from failing.
Quote from: lordmonar on April 28, 2008, 08:56:19 PM
Bottom line is that most CAP officers don't "need" leadership training as they do very little leading. Most are in one deep positions or they may be luck and have one subordinate.
This is very true. The issue that I see is that we compromise our PD standards to a common denominator so EVERYONE can do it. We don't have a seperate track for true leaders/managers versus the masses. Which means the people thrust into those positions don't have the skills to do them, even if they know the technical aspects.
UCC, as an example, is technical aspects. You can be a subject matter expert on how to be a great Sq CC & still not be able to actually do it yourself. There's a big difference in knowing how to operate eServices, where reports go, how to staff projects, etc and in actually leading/managing personnel & liaising with higher.
Quote from: lordmonar on April 28, 2008, 08:56:19 PM
I was taught by being a leader and my mentors.
That's very true as well. Which is why mentoring is supposed to be the primary element of both PD & specialty track progression. By the way, there's PME which is the individual courses, and then there's the overall PD program of which courses are just one element. Specialty track progression (theoretically under mentor) and command/staff duty performance (under mentor) are part of that process.
Quote from: RiverAux on April 28, 2008, 08:01:43 PM
(about 16 days total training time).... Now, we all recognize that this isn't comparable to any hard core leadership training that the military might do, but the question is -- is it enough for our purposes?
I would argue it needs to be about 45 training days. That's 75% of the academic load for the quickest line officer programs out there. It can be accomplished over a year of standard CAP time commitment & with a variety of delivery methods, as well as strong mentoring aspects. I don't say that because we need to be more like the military, I say it cause we need our leaders from entry level on up to function at that level within a multi-agency command enviro. We've had this conversation, no need to repeat the details. Of course that's not the same training all workers need.
45 days in one year? I know you're not insane, but you're stepping awfully close to the border. You do realize that this is almost 1 day a week or two weekends a month and that such a class would have to be done at group or wing level in order to have enough students to make it worthwhile, so very likely would involve significant travel?
I think its more likely that all my favorate pet peeves will be addressed by the National Board than see something like that.
Lets be just a little more realistic. I don't know a single CAP member who would be willing to put in that sort of time, and I know some people who go way beyond the average committment.
Heck, I don't know anyone that would be willing to be a course director or would be willing to instruct that much.
True leadership is about the only thing we have. As has been pointed out before, there are only a few legitimate command positions in CAP.
The true leadership we need is to be able to influence people to do what is needed, without being heavy handed. In a military setting, you order someone. We know that is difficult with volunteers.
In the military, an officer can say: "Go clean the bathrooms." The response should be "Yes, sir (or maam)"
In CAP? "Go clean the bathrooms." The response: "Screw you, I'm a volunteer!"
Do we like to admit it? No. Which is why we need to be teaching people how to lead, not command.
Though I meant it in good fun (and I hope Dnall recognized that), perhaps I was a little unfair. I asked a question and he gave a legitimate answer to it. However, I would be very interested in seeing a more detailed agenda for what a 45-day CAP leadership course would look like.
Quote from: RiverAux on April 29, 2008, 03:43:05 AM
45 days in one year? I know you're not insane, but you're stepping awfully close to the border. You do realize that this is almost 1 day a week or two weekends a month and that such a class would have to be done at group or wing level in order to have enough students to make it worthwhile, so very likely would involve significant travel?
One mtg a week and one wknd a month. That's what most people spend now. It's just focused on this for a year rather than splitting your attention a hundred ways. It's self paced. If the member wants to do other things or doesn't have time then they can stretch it out to three years. Online modules at your own pace, local officership mentor, separate specialty track mentor at Gp/Wg level. Crawl-walk-run progression thru entry level ldr/mgr tasks demo'd thru staff position under supervision by mentor, plus some minor assignments.
It's not too bad. It's what should actually be happening right now & throughout your CAP career, but doesn't. This is just formalizing & directing that process with accountability. I understand that's a lot to ask. It's one time in your career to become an entry level officer/leader/manager.
You really want to dev a theoretical course content, we can do that.
QuoteOne mtg a week and one wknd a month. That's what most people spend now.
I don't think thats exactly right. Maybe for seniors working with cadets. Most squadrons in my wing have 2 meetings a month for seniors. Part of the reason we have trouble finding seniors to work with cadets is the fact that they meet every week and most adults just aren't into it. Theres a reason that the NG doesn't do it that way anymore....
In any case, ..... seeing as how squadrons rarely have more than a couple of new people at one time it wouldn't be practical to do this at the squadron level. So, they would need to be centrally gathered and this would pretty much preclude night time meetings for those more than an hour away. I don't see any way to do it without two weekends a month.
QuoteThe true leadership we need is to be able to influence people to do what is needed, without being heavy handed. In a military setting, you order someone. We know that is difficult with volunteers.
In the military, an officer can say: "Go clean the bathrooms." The response should be "Yes, sir (or ma'am)"
In CAP? "Go clean the bathrooms." The response: "Screw you, I'm a volunteer!"
Do we like to admit it? No. Which is why we need to be teaching people how to lead, not command.
Thats the problem with CAP; we're too focused on being a VOLUNTEER instead of being a true professional (paid or unpaid) CAP is so focused on making sure everyone knows that we are volunteers. it's creating a less professional image in my opinion. I completely agree, we need to be teaching people how to lead.
Bathrooms do need to be cleaned, but it's all in how you make the request. it has nothing to do with being a volunteer. volunteers can still be fired.
DrJbdm,
I don't think that is really the problem. IMHO most CAP Volunteers are very professional. But we are always volunteers. Not wanting to do the necessary work and following the regulations that they volunteer to do is a mark of unprofessional and poor leadership. Not on the individual but the leadership that puts up with it.
Someone does not want to clean the bathrooms...you say...thank you, there's the door. For the most part we have a very professional organisation. We can make it more professional simply by eliminating those who don't want to do what they volunteered for.
I don't really think we need to be spending a whole lot of time in a class room teaching leadership. We need to teach leadership by mentoring and giving our members meaningful jobs and timely on the job training.
We need more UCCs and Squadron Staff Schools (where you teach how to do different squadron jobs).
QuoteYou really want to dev a theoretical course content, we can do that.
Yes, please....and I'm not just asking to make you put your money where you mouth is, I really would be interested in seeing your ideas on this.
Quote from: RiverAux on April 29, 2008, 12:27:50 PM
QuoteOne mtg a week and one wknd a month. That's what most people spend now.
I don't think thats exactly right. Maybe for seniors working with cadets. Most squadrons in my wing have 2 meetings a month for seniors. Part of the reason we have trouble finding seniors to work with cadets is the fact that they meet every week and most adults just aren't into it. Theres a reason that the NG doesn't do it that way anymore....
In any case, ..... seeing as how squadrons rarely have more than a couple of new people at one time it wouldn't be practical to do this at the squadron level. So, they would need to be centrally gathered and this would pretty much preclude night time meetings for those more than an hour away. I don't see any way to do it without two weekends a month.
Units meet on avg from 12.5 (3hrs per wk x 50wks/12mos) to 16 hrs a month. I was in a unit a few years ago that did one full wknd per month (16hrs). If your units are meeting a couple Saturdays a month, it's in that range. The rest of the time described is spent by the member on their own working correspondence modules (much like cadets or anyone in a PME course do). They learn the theory in the modules, then demonstrate thru action during the meeting times under the close supervision of their mentor.
There is no problem doing it at the Sq level. The learning aspects that would need to be centralized are delivered by distance learning. The same is true in the cadet program. Units don't have whole classrooms of people on the same achievement. They each go home & study their own material to progress, the meetings are times to demonstrate that learning thru action under mentors.
It's a one-on-one trained & approved mentor at the Sq level, who guides the trainee through the execution of the leaning points in thru an assigned staff job, and tracks/reports progress to higher. That's supposed to be happening already, it's just not well defined in our program, and that's very unfortunate, cause that's where you really learn to be an officer. It's all really very simple.
QuoteUnits meet on avg from 12.5 (3hrs per wk x 50wks/12mos) to 16 hrs a month.
That may be the experience of cadet squadrons in your wing, but it certainly isn't the case for a single composite or senior squadron in my wing.
Almost all CAP units meet one night a week for approx 3hrs 50wks a year = 12.5hrs/mo avg.
Some units meet a full wknd, some meet 2 Saturdays, some have some strange other format, but in almost all cases it falls in the 12-16hr/mo range.
If there is some unit out there meeting less then this, then for the life of me I don't have any idea how they're getting anything done. Even at 12-16hrs/mo meeting time, it still takes a core of staff officers an extra 20 or so hrs a month to keep the doors open.
Just for fun, I pulled up the course outline for a National Guard Basic NCO and and Advanced NCO course and below is what is in it. This is from IL, but I assume it is pretty standard.
QuoteBasic Noncommissioned Officer Course (BNCOC), Phase 1 represents the second level of NCO Professional Military Education. There are sixteen blocks of instructions: Equal Opportunity, Risk Management, The Army Writing Style, Conduct a Military Briefing, Communicate Effectively, Motivate Subordinates to Improve Performance, Counsel Subordinates, Apply Leadership Fundamentals, Develop Subordinate Leaders, Implement Measures to Reduce Combat Stress, NCOER, Training Management, Troop Leading Procedures, Intelligence and Electronic Warfare (IEW) Operations, Plans Orders and Annexes, Train a Squad, Squad Tactical Operations, and Graphics and Overlays. BNCOC tests the student's comprehension of the subject matter with two written examinations and 6 performance evaluations.
QuoteAdvanced Noncommissioned Officer Course (ANCOC), Phase 1 represents the third level of NCO Professional Military Education. There are nineteen blocks of instruction: Implement a Total Fitness Program for a Platoon, Write a Memorandum to Persuade a Decision Maker, Brief to Persuade, Communicate Effectively, Motivate Subordinates, Develop Subordinate Leaders in a Platoon, Develop a Cohesive Platoon-Organization, Ethical Decision Making Process, Counsel Subordinates, NCOER, Stress Management, Conduct Search and Seizure, Conduct CSS Operations for a Platoon, Conduct Maintenance Operations for a Platoon, Platoon Tactical Operations, Taking Charge of a Platoon, Equal Opportunity, Training Management in a Platoon, and Plans orders and Annexes. ANCOC tests the student's comprehension of the subject matter with two written examinations and 7 performance evaluations.
Here is something else I found that bears on the subject -- a 2004 AF press release:
QuoteLocal citizens receiving Air Force leadership training
by Airman 1st Class Susan Penning
20th Fighter Wing Public Affairs
7/23/2004 - SHAW AIR FORCE BASE, S.C. (AFPN) -- Airmen are not the only ones reaping the benefits of formal Air Force leadership training here. Two citizens from the local community completed five weeks of leadership classes July 23.
The training they received on base coincided with the education Airmen receive at the Senior Master Sgt. David B. Reid Airman Leadership School.
They attended classes that targeted issues they face in their own workplace, said Master Sgt. Gary DeVault, the school's flight chief.
"Everyone reaps rewards from the partnered learning experience," he said. "The community benefits from the leadership classes, and the Airmen at ALS benefit from seeing their training is not simply a required formality, but truly valuable both in the military and civilian work force."
Cheryl Wilson, assistant director of communications at nearby Sumter's 911 Center, attended the course. Ms. Wilson said the training helped her sharpen her leadership skills. She also said she can now better work with the different personalities and learning styles fellow staff members bring to her organization.
Angela Rabon, a senior detective assigned to the Sumter Police Department's violent crimes unit, also attended the class. She said she has learned to be a better leader and follower.
"The confidence I've gained through this experience has better equipped me to handle any situation," she said.
Sergeant DeVault said one reason local law enforcement officials benefit so much from the classes is because their career progression is similar to the military.
"As their careers progress, they get added responsibility," he said. "The classes here cover areas such as problem solving, standards, and discipline and counseling techniques. This very valuable information will help them as they transition into leadership roles in their field."
Here is a link to a long AF press release on how they're opening up military PME courses to civilian employees. It focuses on civilians attending several resident courses including Squadron Officer School
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123013108
Hmm, perhaps the AF might open up some of their in-person training to their Auxiliary?
Quote from: DrJbdm on April 29, 2008, 08:44:00 PM
QuoteThe true leadership we need is to be able to influence people to do what is needed, without being heavy handed. In a military setting, you order someone. We know that is difficult with volunteers.
In the military, an officer can say: "Go clean the bathrooms." The response should be "Yes, sir (or ma'am)"
In CAP? "Go clean the bathrooms." The response: "Screw you, I'm a volunteer!"
Do we like to admit it? No. Which is why we need to be teaching people how to lead, not command.
Thats the problem with CAP; we're too focused on being a VOLUNTEER instead of being a true professional (paid or unpaid) CAP is so focused on making sure everyone knows that we are volunteers. it's creating a less professional image in my opinion. I completely agree, we need to be teaching people how to lead.
Bathrooms do need to be cleaned, but it's all in how you make the request. it has nothing to do with being a volunteer. volunteers can still be fired.
:clap:
Quote from: Hawk200 on April 29, 2008, 03:59:38 AM
True leadership is about the only thing we have. As has been pointed out before, there are only a few legitimate command positions in CAP.
The true leadership we need is to be able to influence people to do what is needed, without being heavy handed. In a military setting, you order someone. We know that is difficult with volunteers.
In the military, an officer can say: "Go clean the bathrooms." The response should be "Yes, sir (or maam)"
In CAP? "Go clean the bathrooms." The response: "Screw you, I'm a volunteer!"
Do we like to admit it? No. Which is why we need to be teaching people how to lead, not command.
Trust me, in the RM, more often than not you have to lead more than command. The only time I ever pulled off a "don't question, just do it" was in combat. You have to treat people like humans just about no matter what power/authority you have over them.
GC
Quote from: Gunner C on April 30, 2008, 02:31:53 AM
Quote from: Hawk200 on April 29, 2008, 03:59:38 AM
True leadership is about the only thing we have. As has been pointed out before, there are only a few legitimate command positions in CAP.
The true leadership we need is to be able to influence people to do what is needed, without being heavy handed. In a military setting, you order someone. We know that is difficult with volunteers.
In the military, an officer can say: "Go clean the bathrooms." The response should be "Yes, sir (or maam)"
In CAP? "Go clean the bathrooms." The response: "Screw you, I'm a volunteer!"
Do we like to admit it? No. Which is why we need to be teaching people how to lead, not command.
Trust me, in the RM, more often than not you have to lead more than command. The only time I ever pulled off a "don't question, just do it" was in combat. You have to treat people like humans just about no matter what power/authority you have over them.
GC
That's no BS right there. Especially in a reserve component. Everyone has to do extra work on their own time outside of drill. You have to motivate, inspire, and ask your subordinates to do things or nothing happens. You try to force it & you're going to get shut down even if you're right.
Quote from: RiverAux on April 30, 2008, 01:35:46 AM
Just for fun, I pulled up the course outline for a National Guard Basic NCO and and Advanced NCO course...
I got the syllabus for NG OCS here if you really want to see it. A whole lot gets lost in the translation though. You learn some theory, ethics, technical skills type stuff in the classroom, but its the instructor or TAC time in the execution phase that teaches you how to be a leader.
Quote from: RiverAux on April 30, 2008, 01:47:02 AM
Hmm, perhaps the AF might open up some of their in-person training to their Auxiliary?
How many CAPpers would/could do the 3 mile run? >:D
Don't get me wrong, I think it would be a great opportunity for those able to take 6 weeks out of their lives to attend.
Re: leadership in general, I think Short Field said it well
QuoteThe actual process of learning to be a leader requires a mentor or guide who helps a person develop their leadership toolkit as they conduct their day to day job. A good leader constantly pushes his people just beyond their capabilites and helps them improve their capabilities while keeping them from failing.
To add something I read in the SOS materials, a good coach strives to put himself out of a job by developing his people to the point where they don't need him anymore.
Are there some folks in CAP who aren't called on to be leaders? Sure. And some folks are content with that.
I would submit that GTLs, GBDs, AOBDs, PSCs, ICs had
better be leaders. If people want to include MPs in that category, ok.
Joe/Jane Adminofficer doesn't
have to lead. But s/he should be progressing as an admin officer, learning how to handle responsibilities like admin at a SAREX or admin for a PD weekend (assisting w/ admin for SLS, CLC courses, etc.)
Some people aren't comfortable leading. We need managers too. But either way, I personally don't believe in stagnation. Whether you're a leader in any capacity or not, I think you should always be looking for ways to improve what you do and how you do it.
Quote from: Fifinella on April 30, 2008, 04:58:10 PM
How many CAPpers would/could do the 3 mile run? >:D
I could ... if I didn't have to do it all at once. Spread it out over a few days, and we're talking!
Jack
Quote from: Fifinella on April 30, 2008, 04:58:10 PMHow many CAPpers would/could do the 3 mile run? >:D
3 mile run? Last I heard, the Air Force only did a mile and a half.
Quote from: Fifinella on April 30, 2008, 04:58:10 PM
To add something I read in the SOS materials, a good coach strives to put himself out of a job by developing his people to the point where they don't need him anymore.
I'd have to agree with. And the best ones don't mind when someone doesn't need them, it's less stress on them.
Quote from: Fifinella on April 30, 2008, 04:58:10 PM
To add something I read in the SOS materials, a good coach strives to put himself out of a job by developing his people to the point where they don't need him anymore.
I got something very similar from some of my civilian leadership classes. The thought is that, as a supervisor, if you can't take time off because the office would fall apart without you, you haven't trained your subordinates properly.
Cardinal rules of leadership - first job of a leader is to train his replacement.
That isn't mentorship. Mentoring isn't training someone to do a job, making someone a better person. You're basically enforcing a very high standard, then forcing them to do work or overcome problems (some of both being manufactured for the purpose) to the standard w/o compromise. You provide instruction in the crawl stage. Guidance as they struggle w/ it in the walk stage. Then evaluation to the standard w/o compromise in the run stage. As they accomplish that aspect you can then build on it by beginning with the next. It's a one-on-one take you under their wing process.
You don't really learn leadership from a mentor, coach, or whatever you want to call it. You learn it by doing a leadership position with someone holding you accountable to the standard. A mentor just makes that a semi-friendly process with more guidance.
The problem is it requires people as mentors that are already at that standard before they can enforce it. We really don't have people at the leader/mgr progression points we need. It's not going to be easy to create them from scratch w/o some outside help.