CAPR 60-3, para 2-3 states:
QuoteIt is possible to participate in more than one specialty on a given mission or day.
So, would it be pheasible then on a particular mission for a scanner returning on a flight to exit the plane at some point and then proceed to marshall the aircraft to fuel and parking, completing the duties of a FLM, and get credit for being both a Mission Scanner and a Flight Line Marshaller?
If I'm reading the CAPR 60-3 properly, this would be fine. I didn't see anything that dictated the necessity of separate sorties for two positions. Am I correct in this?
The way I understand it, you would have to sign out as a scanner, and sign back in as FLM. Of course you would need to be properly qualified in both.
Technically, I think it would be two different sorties for you, if you were to switch from MS to FLM like that. While that is allowed, and encouraged around here, I think the main point in the wording like that is for people to fill multiple positions on Mission Base staff, such as MSO and FASC or IC, GBD and AOBD.
Quote from: Horn229 on October 04, 2005, 12:04:49 AM
Technically, I think it would be two different sorties for you, if you were to switch from MS to FLM like that. While that is allowed, and encouraged around here, I think the main point in the wording like that is for people to fill multiple positions on Mission Base staff, such as MSO and FASC or IC, GBD and AOBD.
There is a chart in the 60-3 (Attachment 4) that defines the sortie equivalencies. E.g. - a SAR/DR Mission Pilot can use his sortie as credit in all these specialties: SAR/DR Mission Pilot, Transport Mission Pilot, Mission Observer, Mission Scanner. This is possible because of the prerequisites for the higher level qualifications.
Sweet! I've seen that table in the reg, but never actually looked that print up top. Cool, now I don't have to wonder how I'm going to be able to get all my qual's renewed. :)
ONE COMPLETED SORTIE AS A MS COUNTS. TO COMPLETE A "SORTIE" AS
FLM, CANDIDATE SHOULD DEMONSTRATE ABILITY TO COMPLETE TASKS
ON SQTR FOR 2 TO 4 HOURS, UNDER SUPERVISION OF 101 QUALIFIED
FLM OR FLS....
PATRICK ZARNIK
MAJ CAP
ES OFFICER/GA112
Quote from: MAJORZ04 on October 11, 2005, 07:00:14 PM
ONE COMPLETED SORTIE AS A MS COUNTS. TO COMPLETE A "SORTIE" AS
FLM, CANDIDATE SHOULD DEMONSTRATE ABILITY TO COMPLETE TASKS
ON SQTR FOR 2 TO 4 HOURS, UNDER SUPERVISION OF 101 QUALIFIED
FLM OR FLS....
PATRICK ZARNIK
MAJ CAP
ES OFFICER/GA112
Sir, thank you for providing that information but from where did you quote that? I have looked in CAPR 60-3, the FLM SQTR, the Aircrew & Flight Line Task Guide, and even CAPR 60-1. I have not seen that "2 to 4 hours" statue outlined anywhere.
THE DURATION OF A "SORTIE" FOR A MISSION BASE POSITION IS NOT
INDICATED IN ANY SPECIFIC REG. THE GA WING USED TO HAVE A"MISSION
PARTICIPATION" FORM THAT WE USED BEFORE THE MIMS SYSTEM WAS
STARTED. ON THAT FORM A MISSION BASE POSITION WAS TO MANNED
FOR A DURATION OF AT LEAST 2 HOURS. WE HAVE KEPT THAT TIME ELEMENT
EVEN THOUGH 60-3 DOES NOT INDICATE A "TIME". A FLM CANDIDATE MUST
SHOW OR DEMONSTRATE AN ABILITY TO PERFORM THE REQUIRED TASKS AND HAVE AN ABILITY TO "SIGN-OFF" OTHERS... THIS REQUIRES MORE THAN DIRECTING ONE AIRCRAFT ON ONE IN OR OUT-BOUND SORTIE.
BEING FULLY QUALIFIED, IN OUR ESTIMATION, MEANS THE CANDIDATE HAS
ENOUGH KNOWLEDGE TO TEACH AND DIRECT OTHERS FOR THEIR QUALIFICATION TOO...
PATRICK ZARNIK
MAJ CAP
ES OFFICER/GA112
While doing some searching for sortie credit for a members SAR ribbon, I came across this in 60-3 and remembered this thread so I thought I would share it.
Quote from: CAPR 60-32-3. Specialty Rating Requirements and Performance Standards.... These two "missions" do not have to be on different mission numbers, be Air Force assigned or approved, or be completed after advanced training. These sorties must be complete sorties and/or operating periods where the member participates in all aspects of their assigned mission specialty. It is possible to participate in more than one specialty on a given mission or day.
Using the example form earlier: if you complete a sortie as a Scanner and then get out of the airplane and marshall aircraft around the ramp you
MAY receive credit for both specailties. The FLM sortie will only count it someone who is a Flight Line Supervisor is willing to sign you off for one sortie as FLM.
I have done 3 positions on 1 mission #. i figured if im going aircrew to follow up with some ground stuff.. incase icant fly right away. So.. i planed on doing MRO and MSA while waiting for a scanner flights. i did MSA the 1st hour or so... i did all my requirements and got m y sqtr signed for the mission, them i went over to do MRO, did that for 2 hours and got my sign off for my second mission as MRO then i got to fly to finsih up my scanner's 2nd flight. Yur allowed to train in 3 specialties at any 1 time accordingto regs.. so plan ahead and see whats available and sqeeze training everyplace u can get....
Quote from: Striker941 on July 30, 2008, 09:57:16 PM
Yur allowed to train in 3 specialties at any 1 time accordingto regs.. so plan ahead and see whats available and sqeeze training everyplace u can get....
Actually, that is very outdated info. According to the really olde rules, only three training items would show up on a 101T. These days, you can be in training for as many different areas as you and your commander think you can handle, limited, of course, by the prerequisites on each SQTR.
Actually our current problem is the database assuming that you are actually training in any specialty in which you have met the pre-requisites whether or not you intend to or not. It puts the little supervised trainee stars next to that specialty on your 101 card.
On every fire in the US somebody is ALWAYS filling more than one position, usually the IC. If a position is not delegated by default it becomes the IC
I have been lucky enough to serve in multiple capacities in one day on many SAREX's, but IMU used to have a problem with it (I don't know if this has been fixed with WMIRS, but I'm not holding my breath that it has been). It will only count the mission as recurrency for one functional area (i.e. if I did aircrew in the morning, and a GT assignment in the afternoon, it would only count me as serving in one of those areas).
This of course is not a problem as far as getting trained is concerned, as your trainer for that sortie will sign you off on all the tasks that you performed to standard during your training time, and you get exercise participation credit for both.
You can go around IMU and get your re-currency updated in E-services...but proving it may be a problem.
Just get someone who knows you were at the mission base and doing the jobs to sign you off.