Poll
Question:
Would you disreguard regulation and wear the gortex pants?
Option 1: yes
Option 2: no
On Saturday my squadron had a community service event for the City. The forecast called for Severe T-Storms, so i brought my gortex with me. The event ended up being canceled due to the weather, when I got home my socks and my blouse were as dry as when I put them on but my pants were absolutely soaking wet. I got online and was all set to buy a pair of gortex pants, before purchasing them I did a little research to make sure they were authorized. Unable to find anything that said they were I submitted this question to the knowledge base:
Quote from: meAre the Gortex BDU Pants authorized to wear with the Gortex Parka?
Strait and to the point, yesterday I received this response:
Quote from: KBNo. The Gortex parka has been authorized with BDUs and CAP distinctive uniforms but not the Gortex pants.
When the gortex parka was authorized General Pineda made this statement:
Quote from: CAP/CC Memorandum: Change to CAPR 39-1, CAP Uniforms 20 November 2006It gives me great pleasure to announce the Air Force has now authorized the wear of the Gortex parka for CAP members. This outergarment provides maximum protection from the elements and is now authorized for all members wearing the BDU uniform.
"This outergarment provides
maximum protection from the elements..." But only for the top half of your body ::). This is something that needs to be reviewed by NHQ and the gortex pants need to be authorized. IMHO it is ridiculous that only half of the uniform has been authorized, it's like saying we can wear ABU tops but the pants aren't permitted yet :o.
I think this is one of those situations where it would have been better to ask for forgiveness rather than permission. :angel:
Quote from: 2d Lt Rudin on March 11, 2008, 08:26:16 PM
On Saturday my squadron had a community service event for the City. The forecast called for Severe T-Storms, so i brought my gortex with me. The event ended up being canceled due to the weather, when I got home my socks and my blouse were as dry as when I put them on but my pants were absolutely soaking wet. I got online and was all set to buy a pair of gortex pants, before purchasing them I did a little research to make sure they were authorized. Unable to find anything that said they were I submitted this question to the knowledge base:
Quote from: meAre the Gortex BDU Pants authorized to wear with the Gortex Parka?
Strait and to the point, yesterday I received this response:
Quote from: KBNo. The Gortex parka has been authorized with BDUs and CAP distinctive uniforms but not the Gortex pants.
When the gortex parka was authorized General Pineda made this statement:
Quote from: CAP/CC Memorandum: Change to CAPR 39-1, CAP Uniforms 20 November 2006It gives me great pleasure to announce the Air Force has now authorized the wear of the Gortex parka for CAP members. This outergarment provides maximum protection from the elements and is now authorized for all members wearing the BDU uniform.
"This outergarment provides maximum protection from the elements..." But only for the top half of your body ::). This is something that needs to be reviewed by NHQ and the gortex pants need to be authorized. IMHO it is ridiculous that only half of the uniform has been authorized, it's like saying we can wear ABU tops but the pants aren't permitted yet :o.
I think this is one of those situations where it would have been better to ask for forgiveness rather than permission. :angel:
I would agree with wearing them. It's not like you were wearing ski pants or something. The pants are designed to work with the jacket, it's an ensemble. The look isn't unusual, they complement the rest.
I'd pretty much treat it as tactical equipment, wear it when you need them, remove it when they are no longer required just like you would do with a poncho. Walking around a mission base with them on would be unnecessary, plus it would look wierd.
Incidentally, the Armyor the Air Force doesn't even address Gore-Tex pants. I guess they treat them like like tactical items, too. Use when needed, remove and stow when you don't.
I was wearing Gore-tex parka and pants back in the early to mid-90s. It only made sense. Red Skins jackets weren't authorized either but you have to wear what will keep you warm and dry, and what better to use than something that is already a part of BDUs across the board, just not in CAP?
If weather calls for wearing rain or cold weather gear and it means choosing between military issue Gore-tex and non-military rain/cold gear, what makes sense?
Does the Air Force authorize wear of the gore-tex BDU pants?
Quote from: CCSE on March 12, 2008, 02:03:53 AM
Does the Air Force authorize wear of the gore-tex BDU pants?
They issue them. I got some issued as part of my cold weather issue in Alaska. Got the whole ECWCS. Didn't get to keep it :'( ;D
But, I've never read about them in any Air Force level reg. Haven't seen anything on them on the Army side either.
Quote from: 2d Lt Rudin on March 11, 2008, 08:26:16 PM
On Saturday my squadron had a community service event for the City. The forecast called for Severe T-Storms, so i brought my gortex with me. The event ended up being canceled due to the weather, when I got home my socks and my blouse were as dry as when I put them on but my pants were absolutely soaking wet. I got online and was all set to buy a pair of gortex pants, before purchasing them I did a little research to make sure they were authorized. Unable to find anything that said they were I submitted this question to the knowledge base:
Quote from: meAre the Gortex BDU Pants authorized to wear with the Gortex Parka?
Strait and to the point, yesterday I received this response:
Quote from: KBNo. The Gortex parka has been authorized with BDUs and CAP distinctive uniforms but not the Gortex pants.
When the gortex parka was authorized General Pineda made this statement:
Quote from: CAP/CC Memorandum: Change to CAPR 39-1, CAP Uniforms 20 November 2006It gives me great pleasure to announce the Air Force has now authorized the wear of the Gortex parka for CAP members. This outergarment provides maximum protection from the elements and is now authorized for all members wearing the BDU uniform.
"This outergarment provides maximum protection from the elements..." But only for the top half of your body ::). This is something that needs to be reviewed by NHQ and the gortex pants need to be authorized. IMHO it is ridiculous that only half of the uniform has been authorized, it's like saying we can wear ABU tops but the pants aren't permitted yet :o.
I think this is one of those situations where it would have been better to ask for forgiveness rather than permission. :angel:
"It is always easier to seek forgiveness afterward than to ask permission before." One of the Great Irrefutable Laws Of the Military Universe.
But... You're learning, El-Tee!
(Don't you just LOVE National HQ? A civilian, sitting in a nice, dry, air-conditioned office saying, "No, Lieutenant, gore-tex pants are NOT authorized...")
Quote from: Hawk200 on March 12, 2008, 02:20:56 AM
Quote from: CCSE on March 12, 2008, 02:03:53 AM
Does the Air Force authorize wear of the gore-tex BDU pants?
They issue them. I got some issued as part of my cold weather issue in Alaska. Got the whole ECWCS. Didn't get to keep it :'( ;D
But, I've never read about them in any Air Force level reg. Haven't seen anything on them on the Army side either.
You know what's funny about that, is I have always looked at CAP uniforms regs for reference 100x more than I ever looked at AR 670-1 (army uniform manual). I don't even know the AFI number for the AF uniform manual, but it's easy because you just wear what you're issued...or something that looks similar.
Does the AFI even say anything about Gore-tex?
EDIT:
Found it in AFI 36-2903
Quote
4. Gortex Jacket. Officers wear slide-on or pin-on subdued grade insignia. Enlisted wear slide-on
subdued grade insignia. Rank insignia will appear on the front lapel of the gortex jacket.
That's all it says. Nothing about Gore-tex pants.
Quote from: Stonewall on March 12, 2008, 03:17:33 AMEDIT:
Found it in AFI 36-2903
Quote
4. Gortex Jacket. Officers wear slide-on or pin-on subdued grade insignia. Enlisted wear slide-on
subdued grade insignia. Rank insignia will appear on the front lapel of the gortex jacket.
That's all it says. Nothing about Gore-tex pants.
Then I would just reserve them for extreme weather situations.
You see people at Ellsworth and Grand Forks wearing extreme cold weather boots with their BDUs, and those aren't in the AFI either.
Quote from: CCSE on March 12, 2008, 03:33:20 AM
Then I would just reserve them for extreme weather situations.
To most of us, this is a given. Sadly, there are some genius types who will wear them when it's a 40 degree and beautiful, dry, sunny day because "It's cold!".
Just one of the reasons many call it "snivel" gear.
Quote from: Hawk200 on March 12, 2008, 03:37:38 AM
Quote from: CCSE on March 12, 2008, 03:33:20 AM
Then I would just reserve them for extreme weather situations.
To most of us, this is a given. Sadly, there are some genius types who will wear them when it's a 40 degree and beautiful, dry, sunny day because "It's cold!".
Just one of the reasons many call it "snivel" gear.
40 degrees is cold(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:OCWLDimEScjSZM:http://www.emofaces.com/en/emoticons/c/cold-weather-emoticon.gif)
QuoteBut... You're learning, El-Tee!
(Don't you just LOVE National HQ? A civilian, sitting in a nice, dry, air-conditioned office saying, "No, Lieutenant, gore-tex pants are NOT authorized...")
ROTFL . . .That's the way of the universe. ;D
Safety trumps Regs every time.
Cold weather would be a safety issue, and in approrpriate situations even civilian outer garments (down coats, etc.) are authorized with the BDU or Blues.
I've authorized same at both the squadron and group level.
Dr. Dave
Quote from: 2d Lt Rudin on March 12, 2008, 03:39:38 AM
40 degrees is cold
(http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif) That won't even put frost on your windshield! It was 40 degrees outside the other day and I was wearing a T-Shirt :)
If I'm going to be outside in winter weather for the day, it's the M-65 PANTS with the button in liner, with knee pads over 'em if I'm going to be kneeling in the snow, tieing ropes to stakes, positioning antenna bases ...
Since I'm not gonna put the tower up in driving rain for practice (There will always be another SAFE day to train, and I have no plans for there to be a "My-name-here Flight Scholarship"!), I haven't had to unfold the goretex pants-yet!
Quote from: jimmydeanno on March 12, 2008, 12:10:26 PM
Quote from: 2d Lt Rudin on March 12, 2008, 03:39:38 AM
40 degrees is cold
(http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif) That won't even put frost on your windshield! It was 40 degrees outside the other day and I was wearing a T-Shirt :)
When the temperature gets into the low 40's the TV stations have "Cold Weather Alerts" advising people to remain indoors. The cops try to round up the homeless into shelters, and people cover their plants.
If the temperature drops below 40 the activate the Emergency Command Posts and close the schools.
I am NOT making this up!!!!!!!
We close at -20 Wind chill or -10 actual historically. 40.... man, that's when I start considering pants instead of shorts.
Quote from: Tubacap on March 13, 2008, 12:53:37 AM
We close at -20 Wind chill or -10 actual historically. 40.... man, that's when I start considering pants instead of shorts.
Man I am with you on that. I thought today when it reached 41 in while I was traveling through to Penn State was warm. The window in the car was down, and the jacket actually came off for a few hours.
Speaking of temps, I am starting to get sick of Winter......like shouldn't it be in the 50's in the Northeast yet? When is this (so called) global warming actually gonna start warming things up??
It was sunny and 75 here today. ;D
I remember going through high-school and the only days that school would be canceled would be when it was so cold the buses wouldn't start. If they thought they could get them going, then we'd get a delay unless the anti-freeze froze.
In 1998 when the "Northeast Corridor" had that huge ice storm that dropped like 6 inches of rime ice on everything most of the state was without power (some areas for weeks) we only had one day off from school.
I just have to chuckle when I hear about you guys in the south that have their jobs tell them not to come into work because there is frost on the roads...
Oh, and I'd wear the gortex pants - common sense prevails!